^^^ It's not just that tabletop gaming is tough with other competition around, it's those jerks at Games Workshop putting the squeeze on their resellers.
I've read a lot about them and how they treat the games stores. It's really shitty.
They have tightened up a lot lately. When I was working as a manager for a different store before I "went rogue" they actually had a really good retailer services program. They would send account managers out to stores, help to merchandise, give free POP materials and even prizes for tournaments. They had a judge program that was reward-based and really smiled upon independent retailers.
Now they've completely cut all of those programs. All of the former account managers are now GW store managers, and they give virtually no support to local mom&pops. All over the past 5 years. The only judges that still function are the ones that were closely tied to actual GW shops, and their discount structure is even worse than ever.
Furthermore they've pulled the same stunt that Magic does but rotating out rules and figures, making them illegal, and messing with the tournament structure to favor people that have made recent purchases, and punish those who have been sitting on an army for years.
From a marketing standpoint, I completely understand why they're doing what they're doing. But I think it's a sign of the death throes of a company that's simply losing to the ease, excitement and cost value of online gaming.
We tried demoing hardcore in the store for almost two full years to the Yugioh kids. We had a few converts but most of them dropped after they got bored with their Xmas gift armies and didn't have money to get anything new in February. Turns out, kids just want to play Yugioh (well, now it seems to be Pokemon again).
My point exactly, people don't want that kind of direct face-to-face human interaction. We're of the era that high school kids, sitting in a lunch room, instead of talking to one another, will use their Sidekicks to update their myspace page while AIM'ing with people sitting right in the same room.
Kind of like online poker, the true nuts will swear that there's no substitute for playing face-to-face and reading your opponents. But most people will just play online poker and give their money away that way.
Dan- sounds like you've seen it all unfold, and hit it right on the head about them being in death throes. Their sculpt quality is better than ever, but their prices have gone through the roof, and they've gotten in the rules updating gimmick, like you've said.
I used to collect the miniatures, but got out of everything except HeroQuest/Warhammer Quest, since they're much smaller scale, and more focused to the kind of game I enjoy.
The 1st edition of 40K actually encouraged you to use all sorts of non-GW miniatures. Now you have to have WYSIWYG minis on the table, it's really ridiculous.
I played magic up until maybe 1998, after Ice Age came out. I had tons of stuff from the Unlimited and earlier editions of the game, but just had to wipe my hands clean of it when I recognized how Wizards of the Coast was doing things.
Everybody starts out wanting to make a great game that people will play and buy. But that's such a tough business, that they get stuck remaking the same stuff over and over, and changing the rules to force old players to repurchase in order to play at sanctioned events.
I'm really glad I left that stuff behind awhile ago, because it's an enormous money pit. Of course, you're probably dead-on about people substituting WOW and Evercrack. Those are a money-pit as well, but on a lesser scale. They're definitely a huge time drain for players though.
I never saw the appeal in the MMO genre. When I play an RPG I want it to work on MY time. With an MMO, if I'm not playing, then I'm falling behind the curve.
That kind of obsession would steal the fun for me.
Lol you're the other guy who still has his HeroQuest stuff I bought the base set and the two mass-market expansions when I was like 13, and when we weren't playing D&D (GM was sick or too many people were missing) we'd whip the old board out. I also got a second base set on clearance years later, cut the board and combined all the figs and made my own expansion adventures. I actually ran it as an event at a game convention back in 97 and it was a big hit, lot of nostalgia for this game.
Ice Age was a big jumping-off point because, as you said, it was the introduction of "Type 2" (the new you-can't-use-those-old-cards-anymore tournament), but also when they reprinted Icy Manipulator and Swords to Plowshares, people started to fear for the value of their other out-of-print cards. Also, the set was absolutely full of underpowered suck (except Necropotence) and didn't inspire many interesting decks. I think it also held the distinction of being the largest set ever released (something like 380+ cards) which made it expensive and painstaking to collect, for the people who just liked the cards. Bad move all-round.
Some companies really "do it right" still though. Out of the Box (Apples to Apples) comes out with fun new games each quarter, most of them worth playing, and most with a $25 or under option. Also, Cheapass Games is the king of...well, cheap-ass games. They do a good mailorder service. Problem is, none of these games ever paid the bills I'd take the time to demo some of these games, and if I was lucky, after a 5-10 minute demo, maybe someone might pick up the cheapest option out of pity. Again, kids just want Pokemon.
If you like modelling, have you checked out Reaper minis? I've heard their proprietary game Dark Heaven isn't all that bad, but their figures (while certainly not as nice as GW) are both passable and CHEAP. Also, for any character you can dream up, it's pretty well assured they've made a figure for it. They've got a sweet search engine that I used to let me role-playing customers use, where you can get as detailed as which weapon is in which hand of the sculpt
Yeah, I LOVE Heroquest. I have all of the US expansions (but only the parts for the Elf and Barbarian quests, no boxes...picked them up in a VERY favorable trade for about $20 worth of Space Marines).
I mostly picked up warhammer quest for the higher quality minis and the more adaptable game system.
I don[t play the stuff much, but it comes out once ina blue moon.
I follow Reaper's line. I love checking out the upcoming "greens". They're search engine is pretty wild, too, lik you said.
They have some really high quality stuff, and one day I'll get around to picking up what I feel I need for Warhammer Quest, through them.
I'm not really looking to pick up a new game system, though. HQ and WHQ should cover me, and my kids (when I have them), as far as
tabletop dungeon crawling.
I MIGHT look into whatever Fantasy Flight has, if they're still around at that time, but I was unimpressed
with Doom the Board Game. The minis are great, but the game takes 10x as long to play as they suggest.
Now, I generally pick up unique board games when they're on clearance at bookstores and toystores.
I find that any game from Ravensburg is pretty good (esp when you get the A-Mazing Labyrinth for $6).
They really make some enjoyable games that "non-gamers" can pick up and play quickly. They're pretty well paced,
and allow you to have a conversation without having to be "too into it".
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon?
Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
Hey...it is cool to hear discussions about MTG. I ran tourneys for many years (well over a 1000)....mostly local at our (now-defunct) stores, but I was involved in running/sponsoring/judging a few PTQ's and a dozen pre-release events....also all back in the "ice age to tempest" era. I was a level 2 judge and traveled around a bit to Atlanta and Birmingham big events. I finally quit for all the same reasons you have all stated. Though I still sell booster paks....an easy double your money item.
And the gamestore issues you have discussed....download sales....is such a looming threat, that I fear to invest in openning any more video game stores. Retro stores sound cool, but it is way to easy to get the items online now. And the only people who want those items tend to be online savvy.
I, and my wife, however represent the 40's and 50's year old gaming group....and tend to be very "un-internet savvy". So online sales are out of the question for me. Ebay is about the best I can do....and it still stresses me.
Gamestores are now such a pain in the ass. I started 20 years ago....no ebay...only a few systems...no competetion. Hell, a rabbit could do it back then. Now....well good luck to those starting out....the "off season is a long one!
Hi. I saw your thread concerning openning a gamestore. I have done it for a while, and though there are many ways to achieve success, one should keep their eye on a few basic concerns to thwart failure. Security is a huge issue....not just shoplifting...but "smash and grab" burglaries. A busted window/door and the lost goods can easily cost thousands......and only takes about 30 seconds. And you can guarantee it will happen if it can happen. I've had dozens. So do Gamestops.
Tournaments are fun and exciting, but online tourneys have had a large impact on in-store tourneys. Plus the bathrooms and stock areas will suffer greatly. Be prepared for a lot of unexpected work and loss.
I started a long time ago....when it was real easy...and I would be happy to answer some questions and/or offer advice. But remember to take it with a grain of salt. I went from 8 stores to 1. And it was alot easier back then.
And for gods sake....be ready for the off-season. There was no year that we did not lose money in the off- seasons. If you don't stash the cash when it is easy to make, you will be screwed when the gamers are out playing ball and going boating. And "back to school" will not serve your sales well, either.
Cashflow is like breathing....if it stops for even a short while...you can die very quickly.
Hey...it is cool to hear discussions about MTG. I ran tourneys for many years (well over a 1000)....mostly local at our (now-defunct) stores, but I was involved in running/sponsoring/judging a few PTQ's and a dozen pre-release events....also all back in the "ice age to tempest" era. I was a level 2 judge and traveled around a bit to Atlanta and Birmingham big events.
I was Level 1 for Onslaught through Time Spiral blocks. I think i only have about 500-700 tournaments in my back pocket though. PTQ's and other events have since gotten ridiculous. I remember the Urza's Saga prerelease, was held in an American Legion hall, organized by a local shopowner, it was part of a larger games convention and the tournament itself had fewer than 64 people.
Now they're like 1,000 entrants in dozens of flights, and they need entire convention centers. Just remarkable. PTQ's the same, and I think they even discontinued their Grand Prix program because it was even more ludicrous.
All that hype was what made me want to open up my little domain to run small free events with a wide prize spread, so that bigger fish wouldn't bother. It was fun while it lasted!
Yeah, some of the tournaments in Altlanta and Birmingham topped the 1000 mark (just 30-50 at the store) and what a mess! It was fun for a short time, but it didn't take long before dread set in at the thought of an upcoming tourney. And the crowds started getting so much younger.
Black Summer (the necro days) had players with a little sense. But as time passed, both large and small events attracted younger and younger crowds.....and all the baby-sitting problems that come along with a group of adolescent boys. Now, I just sell the cards. Let someone else deal with the tourneys. And almost no one does it for more than a year! The hassles and problems hit you fast.
For the POS software I speak from experience in my retail days: Use MYOB Retail Manager. Fantastic program that takes care of everything and the databasing is great, from searching what sold when and at what price, to who sold what and their figures including total sales $ and profit $ and compare to other staff.
By the way, this may be your only chance as the Expo isn't guaranteed to be in Knoxville next year - or anywhere in the SE for that matter. I'm not making any statements about that, other than we WILL be doing a 2009 expo, and the site IS NOT set in stone yet. It's a big country, and we have a lot of members...
I have to disagree, I don't think you need a bank loan to do anything small-small business-wise. Small-Game Stores I think are like Hot Dog Stands lol since your doing it with 2 people it will be small risk. Figure you stock everything up and fail horribly, you are out what (I don't know what your spending) but im sure its not crazy much but okay, now sell all your crap on ebay make prolly half or so back and be happy you tried. However I do agree to go to the expo.
I think you are forgetting a few things about starting up a business. IDK, like rent, insurance, signage, advertising, marketing, the store fixtures, getting the store layout/built to spec, paying fees/taxes necessary for startup costs (aka getting a LLC or inc so you don't lose everything you own personally)...the list really does go and and on and that is just stuff I thought up in 30 seconds! It is not NEARLY as easy as you make it out to be or everyone would do it.
PKPower, Jason is right (not to team up on you) but it's about more than your initial stock. I opened my game store with mostly my own initial stock from years of collecting. But I still needed at least 10k extra in the first three months to cover many of the things Jason mentioned. Remember rent usually includes 1 or 2 months, plus a deposit equal to another month (depending on how your negotiations go). That alone was the biggest chunk, even more than fixtures, which were extremely expensive even using salvaged and self-built stuff.
Also if I were you, I'd consider revising the most common yet most popular games on my price list to reflect demand. Everyone wants to be fair and avoid being "that store" that overcharges for everything.
But when a random mom comes in, asks for a NES, Mario and Zelda, and you don't have Mario and Zelda because you sold them all for $5 each in the first day to your competition who gets $25 each at the flea market -- you've lost her present and future business, lost the word-of-mouth, and your competitor will just wind up making the money you'd have made.
That's why there's a correct market price for everything. It's fleeting and takes work to figure it out on a regular basis, but if you don't respect it you'll simply be that expensive old game store with 6 copies of Dusty Diamond's Softball that nobody wants for the bargain $15 apiece. Your market isn't us.
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon? Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
I was down at my parents just a little ago and found that she has kept both our HeroQuest and expansions and was it called space Marines? all in really good condition and complete!
I dont know what cards/versions they are Ill check next time im there. It really bought back memories going through the stuff and fiddling with the miniatures
bless my mum for teaching us kids to look after our stuff and for being a pack rat
PKPower, Jason is right (not to team up on you) but it's about more than your initial stock. I opened my game store with mostly my own initial stock from years of collecting. But I still needed at least 10k extra in the first three months to cover many of the things Jason mentioned. Remember rent usually includes 1 or 2 months, plus a deposit equal to another month (depending on how your negotiations go). That alone was the biggest chunk, even more than fixtures, which were extremely expensive even using salvaged and self-built stuff.
Also if I were you, I'd consider revising the most common yet most popular games on my price list to reflect demand. Everyone wants to be fair and avoid being "that store" that overcharges for everything.
But when a random mom comes in, asks for a NES, Mario and Zelda, and you don't have Mario and Zelda because you sold them all for $5 each in the first day to your competition who gets $25 each at the flea market -- you've lost her present and future business, lost the word-of-mouth, and your competitor will just wind up making the money you'd have made.
That's why there's a correct market price for everything. It's fleeting and takes work to figure it out on a regular basis, but if you don't respect it you'll simply be that expensive old game store with 6 copies of Dusty Diamond's Softball that nobody wants for the bargain $15 apiece. Your market isn't us.
"your market isn't us" is about the best statement you can remember. Collectors are cheap and hard to deal with (not personally, just for the purposes of profit). They know exactly the best deals on very specific items and will always consume huge amounts of time.... remember that you must be knowledgable on everything....collectors know everything about a few things. Collectors are fun to talk with, but very difficult from which to create a profitable market.
Collectors and hard-core gamers will wait months for one particular item. (hence the ungodly high volume of pre-orders).
The gaming market is huge right now due to the "casual gamer". That is your customer base. Don't be afraid to make your profit. Don't be foolish enough to think you can screw them more than once.
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon? Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
I was down at my parents just a little ago and found that she has kept both our HeroQuest and expansions and was it called space Marines? all in really good condition and complete!
I dont know what cards/versions they are Ill check next time im there. It really bought back memories going through the stuff and fiddling with the miniatures
bless my mum for teaching us kids to look after our stuff and for being a pack rat
Oh, you had Space Crusade, as well? Awesome. I've never seen a copy of that in person, but I know it's supposed to be a good game, and predates the more popular Space Hulk.
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon? Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
I was down at my parents just a little ago and found that she has kept both our HeroQuest and expansions and was it called space Marines? all in really good condition and complete!
I dont know what cards/versions they are Ill check next time im there. It really bought back memories going through the stuff and fiddling with the miniatures
bless my mum for teaching us kids to look after our stuff and for being a pack rat
oh no dont get me wrong dangevin. I understand and respect what your saying 100%.
The only thing I disagreed with is the fact that you said you need a bank loan. Coming from a man who loves the idea of starting and owning small business's I think if you opening something like a Gamestore or my other example Hot Dog stand it with money you have saved up it will be much better than getting a loan.
Besides I would assume the people wanting to open this store are young (as am I) and would get denied. My girlfriend works at a Bank and from what I understand if you go in there and pitch an idea of a gaming store, they usually don't want anything to do with it.
and you wont have to risk the problems you could have if you go through a bank and fail.
I understand and agree with you guys I mean after all Dangevin you do have more experience in the market. But if you saw one of the game stores near me its sad (hence why I want to open my own). How this guy stays in business is beyond me, he pays rent by 2 years a time and prolly pays dic* for it, cause otherwise there is no way he would be open.
I just dont see how you would need an extra 10k to open it up upon your starting stock. This is more of a question of "can you explain this to me" other than "I think your wrong" cause I would like to know being as I plan on opening a store next summer.
^pretty much what I am saying is I think with 10k you could get a good amount of stock and open a store and be pretty successful. Obviously you need to make sure you have a good amount of SMB3, Super Mario Worlds, Sonic etc.. when you open, but if you don't know this common thing you prolly should re-think opening the store anyway. I mean you don't need to start out the size of Digital Press after all about 5 grand worth of games is a shit-load of games. Trade-In's at the other store near me makes a killing.
The point EarlyWorm tried to make early on was about cashflow. If you don't have cash on hand to cover the bad months, you're out on the street. In addition, you need to furnish your store. If you're not lucky enough to buy used fixtures, you're going to have to pay for new stuff - and have it trucked in. Here's the cheap local alternative in Philly, and we still couldn't afford it.
Most rental spots won't cover the flooring - that was an easy $1500-$2000 for us and we only had the tile professionally put in, we laid our own carpeting with industrial squares from Home Depot (not cheap, but still better than paying a dude).
Also, security deposit like I mentioned before. If you want to paint the place a color anything that's not white, be sure to shell out a few hundred as well. Paint is not cheap, and applying it can be very time consuming - or if you pay a crew, kiss a few hundred more goodbye.
It just seems that every corner your turn when you're opening up, there's another $1500-$2000 hit coming from some angle. Paying for the first hit on insurance was another one, I remember. They ALWAYS need a huge portion up-front. The cheap option we went with required the first 1/3 year in payments up-front, and the second 1/3 was due in 60 days. That's for the standard superpackage - liability, fire - and not much else.
And the reason why banks don't like game stores - the truth is they don't like any small business that isn't a franchise. But game stores are generally upstarts by very young people. Young - unproven. And for most of them, it's their first endeavor. While these people all have a lot of heart, unfortunately you can't sell that organ to pay the bills.
yeah I know what your saying dangevin I should of mentioned my father can build custom shelfs, that I would put on the wall, and find cheap flooring as well as put it in. 100% see where your coming from and I think your right but also the place im looking to rent is fairly new and in great shape, I wouldn't buy any 4ways or professional shelfs like that just good old wall shelfs and the glass display cases of coarse.
But dangevin I would like to ask you some more questions if you don't mind PM'ing me back and forth about this. I would like to ask you more questions about insurance if you don't mind so it doesn't hit me like a ton of bricks. Thanks for the info so far though dang you have already tought me a good amount! - Pk
That's cool. You can PM or we can just chat here - might as well keep it public knowledge. Plus, I get into these conversations every 6 months or so and wind up typing the same damned things, I'd kind of like a thread to call back to.
You need to have liability and property insurance, so that if you're robbed or suffer b&e you can get compensated and won't have to close your doors. These are packaged together. Liability is slip&fall plus a few other protections. Fire insurance is required for all locations that share a wall, even if it's a firewall. It's always a good idea anyways, electrical problems can always give you a bad day. And when you get them all in a superpackage it's not much extra. Depending on your location you may want other things like flood, but for the most part that's what they'll offer you.
You'll also need to pay for other government insurances such as worker's comp and unemployment, but those are usually taken care of by your payroll company. Oh, by the way, unless you're going to staff the joint every hour yourself as a sole proprietorship, you'll need a payroll company. It's a good idea anyways because it makes your takes very easy. Also expect to need an accountant to handle your taxes. My accountant costs $150 a year and he's got the lobes of a ferengi. He's saved me 10x that so far. Get a good referral.
You'll also need to pay for other government insurances such as worker's comp and unemployment? why would I have to do that. I do not plan to hire anybody I just plan on running it with me and my friend, maybe much later hire someone
Comments
^^^ It's not just that tabletop gaming is tough with other competition around, it's those jerks at Games Workshop putting the squeeze on their resellers.
I've read a lot about them and how they treat the games stores. It's really shitty.
They have tightened up a lot lately. When I was working as a manager for a different store before I "went rogue" they actually had a really good retailer services program. They would send account managers out to stores, help to merchandise, give free POP materials and even prizes for tournaments. They had a judge program that was reward-based and really smiled upon independent retailers.
Now they've completely cut all of those programs. All of the former account managers are now GW store managers, and they give virtually no support to local mom&pops. All over the past 5 years. The only judges that still function are the ones that were closely tied to actual GW shops, and their discount structure is even worse than ever.
Furthermore they've pulled the same stunt that Magic does but rotating out rules and figures, making them illegal, and messing with the tournament structure to favor people that have made recent purchases, and punish those who have been sitting on an army for years.
From a marketing standpoint, I completely understand why they're doing what they're doing. But I think it's a sign of the death throes of a company that's simply losing to the ease, excitement and cost value of online gaming.
We tried demoing hardcore in the store for almost two full years to the Yugioh kids. We had a few converts but most of them dropped after they got bored with their Xmas gift armies and didn't have money to get anything new in February. Turns out, kids just want to play Yugioh (well, now it seems to be Pokemon again).
And Tabletop gaming sucks!!
My point exactly, people don't want that kind of direct face-to-face human interaction. We're of the era that high school kids, sitting in a lunch room, instead of talking to one another, will use their Sidekicks to update their myspace page while AIM'ing with people sitting right in the same room.
Kind of like online poker, the true nuts will swear that there's no substitute for playing face-to-face and reading your opponents. But most people will just play online poker and give their money away that way.
I used to collect the miniatures, but got out of everything except HeroQuest/Warhammer Quest, since they're much smaller scale, and more focused to the kind of game I enjoy.
The 1st edition of 40K actually encouraged you to use all sorts of non-GW miniatures. Now you have to have WYSIWYG minis on the table, it's really ridiculous.
I played magic up until maybe 1998, after Ice Age came out. I had tons of stuff from the Unlimited and earlier editions of the game, but just had to wipe my hands clean of it when I recognized how Wizards of the Coast was doing things.
Everybody starts out wanting to make a great game that people will play and buy. But that's such a tough business, that they get stuck remaking the same stuff over and over, and changing the rules to force old players to repurchase in order to play at sanctioned events.
I'm really glad I left that stuff behind awhile ago, because it's an enormous money pit. Of course, you're probably dead-on about people substituting WOW and Evercrack. Those are a money-pit as well, but on a lesser scale. They're definitely a huge time drain for players though.
I never saw the appeal in the MMO genre. When I play an RPG I want it to work on MY time. With an MMO, if I'm not playing, then I'm falling behind the curve.
That kind of obsession would steal the fun for me.
Ice Age was a big jumping-off point because, as you said, it was the introduction of "Type 2" (the new you-can't-use-those-old-cards-anymore tournament), but also when they reprinted Icy Manipulator and Swords to Plowshares, people started to fear for the value of their other out-of-print cards. Also, the set was absolutely full of underpowered suck (except Necropotence) and didn't inspire many interesting decks. I think it also held the distinction of being the largest set ever released (something like 380+ cards) which made it expensive and painstaking to collect, for the people who just liked the cards. Bad move all-round.
Some companies really "do it right" still though. Out of the Box (Apples to Apples) comes out with fun new games each quarter, most of them worth playing, and most with a $25 or under option. Also, Cheapass Games is the king of...well, cheap-ass games. They do a good mailorder service. Problem is, none of these games ever paid the bills
If you like modelling, have you checked out Reaper minis? I've heard their proprietary game Dark Heaven isn't all that bad, but their figures (while certainly not as nice as GW) are both passable and CHEAP. Also, for any character you can dream up, it's pretty well assured they've made a figure for it. They've got a sweet search engine that I used to let me role-playing customers use, where you can get as detailed as which weapon is in which hand of the sculpt
I mostly picked up warhammer quest for the higher quality minis and the more adaptable game system.
I don[t play the stuff much, but it comes out once ina blue moon.
I follow Reaper's line. I love checking out the upcoming "greens". They're search engine is pretty wild, too, lik you said.
They have some really high quality stuff, and one day I'll get around to picking up what I feel I need for Warhammer Quest, through them.
I'm not really looking to pick up a new game system, though. HQ and WHQ should cover me, and my kids (when I have them), as far as
tabletop dungeon crawling.
I MIGHT look into whatever Fantasy Flight has, if they're still around at that time, but I was unimpressed
with Doom the Board Game. The minis are great, but the game takes 10x as long to play as they suggest.
Now, I generally pick up unique board games when they're on clearance at bookstores and toystores.
I find that any game from Ravensburg is pretty good (esp when you get the A-Mazing Labyrinth for $6).
They really make some enjoyable games that "non-gamers" can pick up and play quickly. They're pretty well paced,
and allow you to have a conversation without having to be "too into it".
It plays pretty well, and it's expandable, because you can make your own game boards to go with the base set.
(each game board is fairly small 2x2 in. up to about 6x8 in.)
There are quite a few sites on the web with high quality dungeon graphics you can print onto card in order to
expand that type of game.
Also, every once in awhile I like to check out HirstArts and see what cast dungeons he's putting together.
hot damn! I put many many hours into HeroQuest as a kiddie. Good times. Im sure my mum would still have the gear.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon?
Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
And the gamestore issues you have discussed....download sales....is such a looming threat, that I fear to invest in openning any more video game stores. Retro stores sound cool, but it is way to easy to get the items online now. And the only people who want those items tend to be online savvy.
I, and my wife, however represent the 40's and 50's year old gaming group....and tend to be very "un-internet savvy". So online sales are out of the question for me. Ebay is about the best I can do....and it still stresses me.
Gamestores are now such a pain in the ass. I started 20 years ago....no ebay...only a few systems...no competetion. Hell, a rabbit could do it back then. Now....well good luck to those starting out....the "off season is a long one!
Tournaments are fun and exciting, but online tourneys have had a large impact on in-store tourneys. Plus the bathrooms and stock areas will suffer greatly. Be prepared for a lot of unexpected work and loss.
I started a long time ago....when it was real easy...and I would be happy to answer some questions and/or offer advice. But remember to take it with a grain of salt. I went from 8 stores to 1. And it was alot easier back then.
And for gods sake....be ready for the off-season. There was no year that we did not lose money in the off- seasons. If you don't stash the cash when it is easy to make, you will be screwed when the gamers are out playing ball and going boating. And "back to school" will not serve your sales well, either.
Cashflow is like breathing....if it stops for even a short while...you can die very quickly.
Hey...it is cool to hear discussions about MTG. I ran tourneys for many years (well over a 1000)....mostly local at our (now-defunct) stores, but I was involved in running/sponsoring/judging a few PTQ's and a dozen pre-release events....also all back in the "ice age to tempest" era. I was a level 2 judge and traveled around a bit to Atlanta and Birmingham big events.
I was Level 1 for Onslaught through Time Spiral blocks. I think i only have about 500-700 tournaments in my back pocket though. PTQ's and other events have since gotten ridiculous. I remember the Urza's Saga prerelease, was held in an American Legion hall, organized by a local shopowner, it was part of a larger games convention and the tournament itself had fewer than 64 people.
Now they're like 1,000 entrants in dozens of flights, and they need entire convention centers. Just remarkable. PTQ's the same, and I think they even discontinued their Grand Prix program because it was even more ludicrous.
All that hype was what made me want to open up my little domain to run small free events with a wide prize spread, so that bigger fish wouldn't bother. It was fun while it lasted!
Black Summer (the necro days) had players with a little sense. But as time passed, both large and small events attracted younger and younger crowds.....and all the baby-sitting problems that come along with a group of adolescent boys. Now, I just sell the cards. Let someone else deal with the tourneys. And almost no one does it for more than a year! The hassles and problems hit you fast.
By the way, this may be your only chance as the Expo isn't guaranteed to be in Knoxville next year - or anywhere in the SE for that matter. I'm not making any statements about that, other than we WILL be doing a 2009 expo, and the site IS NOT set in stone yet. It's a big country, and we have a lot of members...
I have to disagree, I don't think you need a bank loan to do anything small-small business-wise. Small-Game Stores I think are like Hot Dog Stands lol since your doing it with 2 people it will be small risk. Figure you stock everything up and fail horribly, you are out what (I don't know what your spending) but im sure its not crazy much but okay, now sell all your crap on ebay make prolly half or so back and be happy you tried. However I do agree to go to the expo.
~~NGD
Also if I were you, I'd consider revising the most common yet most popular games on my price list to reflect demand. Everyone wants to be fair and avoid being "that store" that overcharges for everything.
But when a random mom comes in, asks for a NES, Mario and Zelda, and you don't have Mario and Zelda because you sold them all for $5 each in the first day to your competition who gets $25 each at the flea market -- you've lost her present and future business, lost the word-of-mouth, and your competitor will just wind up making the money you'd have made.
That's why there's a correct market price for everything. It's fleeting and takes work to figure it out on a regular basis, but if you don't respect it you'll simply be that expensive old game store with 6 copies of Dusty Diamond's Softball that nobody wants for the bargain $15 apiece. Your market isn't us.
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon?
Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
I was down at my parents just a little ago and found that she has kept both our HeroQuest and expansions and was it called space Marines? all in really good condition and complete!
I dont know what cards/versions they are Ill check next time im there. It really bought back memories going through the stuff and fiddling with the miniatures
bless my mum for teaching us kids to look after our stuff and for being a pack rat
PKPower, Jason is right (not to team up on you) but it's about more than your initial stock. I opened my game store with mostly my own initial stock from years of collecting. But I still needed at least 10k extra in the first three months to cover many of the things Jason mentioned. Remember rent usually includes 1 or 2 months, plus a deposit equal to another month (depending on how your negotiations go). That alone was the biggest chunk, even more than fixtures, which were extremely expensive even using salvaged and self-built stuff.
Also if I were you, I'd consider revising the most common yet most popular games on my price list to reflect demand. Everyone wants to be fair and avoid being "that store" that overcharges for everything.
But when a random mom comes in, asks for a NES, Mario and Zelda, and you don't have Mario and Zelda because you sold them all for $5 each in the first day to your competition who gets $25 each at the flea market -- you've lost her present and future business, lost the word-of-mouth, and your competitor will just wind up making the money you'd have made.
That's why there's a correct market price for everything. It's fleeting and takes work to figure it out on a regular basis, but if you don't respect it you'll simply be that expensive old game store with 6 copies of Dusty Diamond's Softball that nobody wants for the bargain $15 apiece. Your market isn't us.
"your market isn't us" is about the best statement you can remember. Collectors are cheap and hard to deal with (not personally, just for the purposes of profit). They know exactly the best deals on very specific items and will always consume huge amounts of time.... remember that you must be knowledgable on everything....collectors know everything about a few things. Collectors are fun to talk with, but very difficult from which to create a profitable market.
Collectors and hard-core gamers will wait months for one particular item. (hence the ungodly high volume of pre-orders).
The gaming market is huge right now due to the "casual gamer". That is your customer base. Don't be afraid to make your profit. Don't be foolish enough to think you can screw them more than once.
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon?
Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
I was down at my parents just a little ago and found that she has kept both our HeroQuest and expansions and was it called space Marines? all in really good condition and complete!
I dont know what cards/versions they are Ill check next time im there. It really bought back memories going through the stuff and fiddling with the miniatures
bless my mum for teaching us kids to look after our stuff and for being a pack rat
Oh, you had Space Crusade, as well? Awesome. I've never seen a copy of that in person, but I know it's supposed to be a good game, and predates the more popular Space Hulk.
^^^ Better get your hands on it, lest it gets thrown away.
You would have the UK version, right? With Morcar instead of Zargon?
Ooh, does your copy have cards for the armory? I was pissed as a kid that the US version didn't come with the item cards shown in the commercials (based on the original UK version).
I was down at my parents just a little ago and found that she has kept both our HeroQuest and expansions and was it called space Marines? all in really good condition and complete!
I dont know what cards/versions they are Ill check next time im there. It really bought back memories going through the stuff and fiddling with the miniatures
bless my mum for teaching us kids to look after our stuff and for being a pack rat
oh no dont get me wrong dangevin. I understand and respect what your saying 100%.
The only thing I disagreed with is the fact that you said you need a bank loan. Coming from a man who loves the idea of starting and owning small business's I think if you opening something like a Gamestore or my other example Hot Dog stand it with money you have saved up it will be much better than getting a loan.
Besides I would assume the people wanting to open this store are young (as am I) and would get denied. My girlfriend works at a Bank and from what I understand if you go in there and pitch an idea of a gaming store, they usually don't want anything to do with it.
and you wont have to risk the problems you could have if you go through a bank and fail.
I understand and agree with you guys I mean after all Dangevin you do have more experience in the market. But if you saw one of the game stores near me its sad (hence why I want to open my own). How this guy stays in business is beyond me, he pays rent by 2 years a time and prolly pays dic* for it, cause otherwise there is no way he would be open.
I just dont see how you would need an extra 10k to open it up upon your starting stock. This is more of a question of "can you explain this to me" other than "I think your wrong" cause I would like to know being as I plan on opening a store next summer.
http://www.gershelbros.com/
Most rental spots won't cover the flooring - that was an easy $1500-$2000 for us and we only had the tile professionally put in, we laid our own carpeting with industrial squares from Home Depot (not cheap, but still better than paying a dude).
Also, security deposit like I mentioned before. If you want to paint the place a color anything that's not white, be sure to shell out a few hundred as well. Paint is not cheap, and applying it can be very time consuming - or if you pay a crew, kiss a few hundred more goodbye.
It just seems that every corner your turn when you're opening up, there's another $1500-$2000 hit coming from some angle. Paying for the first hit on insurance was another one, I remember. They ALWAYS need a huge portion up-front. The cheap option we went with required the first 1/3 year in payments up-front, and the second 1/3 was due in 60 days. That's for the standard superpackage - liability, fire - and not much else.
And the reason why banks don't like game stores - the truth is they don't like any small business that isn't a franchise. But game stores are generally upstarts by very young people. Young - unproven. And for most of them, it's their first endeavor. While these people all have a lot of heart, unfortunately you can't sell that organ to pay the bills.
But dangevin I would like to ask you some more questions if you don't mind PM'ing me back and forth about this. I would like to ask you more questions about insurance if you don't mind so it doesn't hit me like a ton of bricks. Thanks for the info so far though dang you have already tought me a good amount! - Pk
You'll also need to pay for other government insurances such as worker's comp and unemployment, but those are usually taken care of by your payroll company. Oh, by the way, unless you're going to staff the joint every hour yourself as a sole proprietorship, you'll need a payroll company. It's a good idea anyways because it makes your takes very easy. Also expect to need an accountant to handle your taxes. My accountant costs $150 a year and he's got the lobes of a ferengi. He's saved me 10x that so far. Get a good referral.