Nice games Bronty! I'm a little late to the shrinkwrap conversation, but I certainly re-iterate what Bronty says---there are sealed copies of even the earliest games minus the select black box titles that were sticker sealed & FFF----its funny what memory will do to you after 30 years ---it is very possible however, that what you saw Brain Breaker were returned games that no longer had shrinkwrap---Every once in awhile, Howard Phillips pops his head into these forums and I would suspect he would be able to confirm Bronty's statement as he was there from the beginning
Nice games Bronty! I'm a little late to the shrinkwrap conversation, but I certainly re-iterate what Bronty says---there are sealed copies of even the earliest games minus the select black box titles that were sticker sealed & FFF----its funny what memory will do to you after 30 years ---it is very possible however, that what you saw Brain Breaker were returned games that no longer had shrinkwrap---Every once in awhile, Howard Phillips pops his head into these forums and I would suspect he would be able to confirm Bronty's statement as he was there from the beginning
Thanks for the comments 1upped, but I'm afraid that's not the case. Aside from my personal memories, I have numerous photos that I've acquired over the years (from early Japanese gaming magazines and other sources) of early store displays and games from the NY/NJ and California test market areas circa 1986, and several of them display the brand new third party games for sale in an obviously non-sealed state. This is how it was (at least in those areas) until around the spring/early summer of '87, when the last three black box games came out. I believe those were the first to be shrinkwrapped from the beginning (coinciding with Nintendo discontinuing the sticker seals), with the third parties falling in line soon after. Any copies of the earliest version boxes of the first 10 or so third party releases that have been found wrapped must have been sealed at a slightly later date, possibly for sale in the wider national market that was just starting to open up.
As I mentioned previously, things were a bit different in the test market areas in those early days. For instance, while Nintendo was busy trying (and often failing) to get the standard Deluxe Sets into stores for Xmas of '86 in many of the major national markets, the test market areas were still stocked up with the original "no text" launch sets (which were never even seen elsewhere) well into the holiday season, as many of the store display photos I have can proove.
Speaking of Howard Phillips, I do wish he would show up here again. I have numerous vintage photos, interviews, etc. relating to him from my '80s Japanese magazine collection that I think he'd like to see. Hopefully he'll pay another visit someday.
Once again, very sorry if this is all getting too OT here.
Bronty, have you posted your collection pics recently? You seem to have a lot of graded stuff, need to post an updated group shot if you haven't.
yeah that's not happening lol. Thanks but too much hassle for my taste. Most of the collection is at storage so its just in boxes and it would be a somewhat major effort to drag em all here, take photos, drag em all back.... phooey
Nice games Bronty! I'm a little late to the shrinkwrap conversation, but I certainly re-iterate what Bronty says---there are sealed copies of even the earliest games minus the select black box titles that were sticker sealed & FFF----its funny what memory will do to you after 30 years ---it is very possible however, that what you saw Brain Breaker were returned games that no longer had shrinkwrap---Every once in awhile, Howard Phillips pops his head into these forums and I would suspect he would be able to confirm Bronty's statement as he was there from the beginning
Thanks for the comments 1upped, but I'm afraid that's not the case. Aside from my personal memories, I have numerous photos that I've acquired over the years (from early Japanese gaming magazines and other sources) of early store displays and games from the NY/NJ and California test market areas circa 1986, and several of them display the brand new third party games for sale in an obviously non-sealed state. This is how it was (at least in those areas) until around the spring/early summer of '87, when the last three black box games came out. I believe those were the first to be shrinkwrapped from the beginning (coinciding with Nintendo discontinuing the sticker seals), with the third parties falling in line soon after. Any copies of the earliest version boxes of the first 10 or so third party releases that have been found wrapped must have been sealed at a slightly later date, possibly for sale in the wider national market that was just starting to open up.
As I mentioned previously, things were a bit different in the test market areas in those early days. For instance, while Nintendo was busy trying (and often failing) to get the standard Deluxe Sets into stores for Xmas of '86 in many of the major national markets, the test market areas were still stocked up with the original "no text" launch sets (which were never even seen elsewhere) well into the holiday season, as many of the store display photos I have can proove.
Speaking of Howard Phillips, I do wish he would show up here again. I have numerous vintage photos, interviews, etc. relating to him from my '80s Japanese magazine collection that I think he'd like to see. Hopefully he'll pay another visit someday.
Once again, very sorry if this is all getting too OT here.
can you email me all of these photos you can speak of? It should be relatively easy to put some parameters around it simply by seeing what games are in the photos.
For the record the last three bb's came out a different times.
I guess I'd make two other comments:
1) Its quite possible (probable?) that this was localized and that when they went actually nationwide it was all wrap (just guessing here given that only people from NY/NJ remember this?)
2) Assuming all is as you say, which I have no reason to doubt, spring 87 might make some sense but I wouldn't buy summer/fall as by then the hangtab boxes were already being discontinued (sept 87). Of course, there might be a few months lag time between the "official" publicly posted dates and real-time distribution.
In addition to the comments above, many of the promo photos (most) were taken of NES games w/no shrinkwrap---this practice took place throughout the systems lifespan as I have many store display photos and pamphlets made by Nintendo that showed the games w/o wrap late into the game (SMB3 comes to mind) and it makes sense as the look, for promotional purposes, looks much cleaner& glossier w/o wrap --- I am not second guessing Brain Breakers memory however, as he was actually in a test market to draw from---I am just saying there is nothing that has been shown to back up his recollection and it is still my belief that the games always had some type of seal---whether it be sticker or shrinkwrap---although I would love to be disproven as it would be a neat early story about NES games
Sure, I'll comb through my stuff when I can and get back to you (please keep in mind that we're talking hundreds of magazines here though, so it may take a while). In the meantime, you can check out some of my old posts of early store display photos from FAO Schwarz, if you're interested (although that was only black box stuff, and the quality was poor due to my cheap digital camera).
As for the last three BBs, yes, the official dates (March '87) are a bit off on those, from what I recall. That's really the way it was in general. The more research I've done, the more I realize that NOA's record keeping on this front was a total mess (they couldn't even get their actual launch titles straight!) Luckily, Famitsu had a dedicated biweekly NES columnist in NYC (and sometimes San Francisco) from mid '86 on, so there's a clear record of when the new releases actually showed up in real time at the local stores. It was often quite delayed from the official NOA dates, that's for certain. Although sometimes they actually slipped out earlier. For instance, I have proof that Renegade and Karnov actually made it out to some stores well before Xmas of '87, even though the official dates are early '88! This whole subject really needs a LOT of cleaning up, from a historical perspective.
Anyway, I would definitely agree that this brief non-sealed "window" was most likely very localized to the earliest test market areas only (NY/NJ, Los Angeles and maybe San Francisco). And yes, mid/late '87 was definitely too late for any non-sealed games, even in those areas.
In addition to the comments above, many of the promo photos (most) were taken of NES games w/no shrinkwrap---this practice took place throughout the systems lifespan as I have many store display photos and pamphlets made by Nintendo that showed the games w/o wrap late into the game (SMB3 comes to mind) and it makes sense as the look, for promotional purposes, looks much cleaner& glossier w/o wrap --- I am not second guessing Brain Breakers memory however, as he was actually in a test market to draw from---I am just saying there is nothing that has been shown to back up his recollection and it is still my belief that the games always had some type of seal---whether it be sticker or shrinkwrap---although I would love to be disproven as it would be a neat early story about NES games
No, you misunderstand. These are actual photos taken in working stores (such as the FAO Schwarz in NYC) by Japanese game mag photographers, not official Nintendo promo shots.
Before I head out for the day, here's just one example that I happen to have handy of how you should never really trust the official dates. It's from a 1987 Merchandisers Manual, which I believe may have even come from a poster here at NA. I had long remembered getting Renegade (and discussing it extensively with my friends in school, as we had all been big fans of the arcade version for over a year) in the autumn of '87, well before its officially listed release date of January 1988. Well, lo and behold, check out this filled out inventory form from a K-Mart in Seattle, circa early November, 1987. It's listed as a "new arrival", and as already having sold six copies! It's material like this that I've come across over the years, as well as my Japanese gaming magazines (some of which were actually covering the early NES scene as it actually happened, unlike the US media) that taught me to trust my own memories and research over whatever the generally accepted "official" information happens to be.
Before I head out for the day, here's just one example that I happen to have handy of how you should never really trust the official dates. It's from a 1987 Merchandisers Manual, which I believe may have even come from a poster here at NA. I had long remembered getting Renegade (and discussing it extensively with my friends in school, as we had all been big fans of the arcade version for over a year) in the autumn of '87, well before its officially listed release date of January 1988. Well, lo and behold, check out this filled out inventory form from a K-Mart in Seattle, circa early November, 1987. It's listed as a "new arrival", and as already having sold six copies! It's material like this that I've come across over the years, as well as my Japanese gaming magazines (some of which were actually covering the early NES scene as it actually happened, unlike the US media) that taught me to trust my own memories and research over whatever the generally accepted "official" information happens to be.
Great picture! I love stuff like this. It's like going back in time!
Before I head out for the day, here's just one example that I happen to have handy of how you should never really trust the official dates. It's from a 1987 Merchandisers Manual, which I believe may have even come from a poster here at NA. I had long remembered getting Renegade (and discussing it extensively with my friends in school, as we had all been big fans of the arcade version for over a year) in the autumn of '87, well before its officially listed release date of January 1988. Well, lo and behold, check out this filled out inventory form from a K-Mart in Seattle, circa early November, 1987. It's listed as a "new arrival", and as already having sold six copies! It's material like this that I've come across over the years, as well as my Japanese gaming magazines (some of which were actually covering the early NES scene as it actually happened, unlike the US media) that taught me to trust my own memories and research over whatever the generally accepted "official" information happens to be.
One of the more interesting posts I've read in a long time, the picture is worth 1,000 words. Thanks for sharing!
Wow Blarky I see 5 labels that are technically wrong in those pics. 3 black seals listed as white and 2 early round Soq's that were later rereleased as white oval Soq's that are just listed as white seal. I assume they would fix those for free if you send them back? Reason I ask is because I got in two 85+ that should have gold stickers but came with silver stickers. I need to get those fixed as well...
Wow Blarky I see 5 labels that are technically wrong in those pics. 3 black seals listed as white and 2 early round Soq's that were later rereleased as white oval Soq's that are just listed as white seal. I assume they would fix those for free if you send them back? Reason I ask is because I got in two 85+ that should have gold stickers but came with silver stickers. I need to get those fixed as well...
Three blacks seals listed as white: Blaster Master, Galga, WoF?
2 early round soq's later released as white oval: RC Pro Am, Bomberman?
Yes, they would fix these for free. I just don't think they've gotten enough examples of all the variants to really know all the differences. I've seen lots of mistakes here, particularly in the 'type of seal' field that I hope they improve on.
Comments
Originally posted by: 1upped
Nice games Bronty! I'm a little late to the shrinkwrap conversation, but I certainly re-iterate what Bronty says---there are sealed copies of even the earliest games minus the select black box titles that were sticker sealed & FFF----its funny what memory will do to you after 30 years ---it is very possible however, that what you saw Brain Breaker were returned games that no longer had shrinkwrap---Every once in awhile, Howard Phillips pops his head into these forums and I would suspect he would be able to confirm Bronty's statement as he was there from the beginning
Thanks for the comments 1upped, but I'm afraid that's not the case. Aside from my personal memories, I have numerous photos that I've acquired over the years (from early Japanese gaming magazines and other sources) of early store displays and games from the NY/NJ and California test market areas circa 1986, and several of them display the brand new third party games for sale in an obviously non-sealed state. This is how it was (at least in those areas) until around the spring/early summer of '87, when the last three black box games came out. I believe those were the first to be shrinkwrapped from the beginning (coinciding with Nintendo discontinuing the sticker seals), with the third parties falling in line soon after. Any copies of the earliest version boxes of the first 10 or so third party releases that have been found wrapped must have been sealed at a slightly later date, possibly for sale in the wider national market that was just starting to open up.
As I mentioned previously, things were a bit different in the test market areas in those early days. For instance, while Nintendo was busy trying (and often failing) to get the standard Deluxe Sets into stores for Xmas of '86 in many of the major national markets, the test market areas were still stocked up with the original "no text" launch sets (which were never even seen elsewhere) well into the holiday season, as many of the store display photos I have can proove.
Speaking of Howard Phillips, I do wish he would show up here again. I have numerous vintage photos, interviews, etc. relating to him from my '80s Japanese magazine collection that I think he'd like to see. Hopefully he'll pay another visit someday.
Once again, very sorry if this is all getting too OT here.
Originally posted by: empire
Bronty, have you posted your collection pics recently? You seem to have a lot of graded stuff, need to post an updated group shot if you haven't.
yeah that's not happening lol. Thanks but too much hassle for my taste. Most of the collection is at storage so its just in boxes and it would be a somewhat major effort to drag em all here, take photos, drag em all back.... phooey
Originally posted by: Brain Breaker
Originally posted by: 1upped
Nice games Bronty! I'm a little late to the shrinkwrap conversation, but I certainly re-iterate what Bronty says---there are sealed copies of even the earliest games minus the select black box titles that were sticker sealed & FFF----its funny what memory will do to you after 30 years ---it is very possible however, that what you saw Brain Breaker were returned games that no longer had shrinkwrap---Every once in awhile, Howard Phillips pops his head into these forums and I would suspect he would be able to confirm Bronty's statement as he was there from the beginning
Thanks for the comments 1upped, but I'm afraid that's not the case. Aside from my personal memories, I have numerous photos that I've acquired over the years (from early Japanese gaming magazines and other sources) of early store displays and games from the NY/NJ and California test market areas circa 1986, and several of them display the brand new third party games for sale in an obviously non-sealed state. This is how it was (at least in those areas) until around the spring/early summer of '87, when the last three black box games came out. I believe those were the first to be shrinkwrapped from the beginning (coinciding with Nintendo discontinuing the sticker seals), with the third parties falling in line soon after. Any copies of the earliest version boxes of the first 10 or so third party releases that have been found wrapped must have been sealed at a slightly later date, possibly for sale in the wider national market that was just starting to open up.
As I mentioned previously, things were a bit different in the test market areas in those early days. For instance, while Nintendo was busy trying (and often failing) to get the standard Deluxe Sets into stores for Xmas of '86 in many of the major national markets, the test market areas were still stocked up with the original "no text" launch sets (which were never even seen elsewhere) well into the holiday season, as many of the store display photos I have can proove.
Speaking of Howard Phillips, I do wish he would show up here again. I have numerous vintage photos, interviews, etc. relating to him from my '80s Japanese magazine collection that I think he'd like to see. Hopefully he'll pay another visit someday.
Once again, very sorry if this is all getting too OT here.
can you email me all of these photos you can speak of? It should be relatively easy to put some parameters around it simply by seeing what games are in the photos.
For the record the last three bb's came out a different times.
I guess I'd make two other comments:
1) Its quite possible (probable?) that this was localized and that when they went actually nationwide it was all wrap (just guessing here given that only people from NY/NJ remember this?)
2) Assuming all is as you say, which I have no reason to doubt, spring 87 might make some sense but I wouldn't buy summer/fall as by then the hangtab boxes were already being discontinued (sept 87). Of course, there might be a few months lag time between the "official" publicly posted dates and real-time distribution.
Congrats man, glad its in your hands.
As for the last three BBs, yes, the official dates (March '87) are a bit off on those, from what I recall. That's really the way it was in general. The more research I've done, the more I realize that NOA's record keeping on this front was a total mess (they couldn't even get their actual launch titles straight!) Luckily, Famitsu had a dedicated biweekly NES columnist in NYC (and sometimes San Francisco) from mid '86 on, so there's a clear record of when the new releases actually showed up in real time at the local stores. It was often quite delayed from the official NOA dates, that's for certain. Although sometimes they actually slipped out earlier. For instance, I have proof that Renegade and Karnov actually made it out to some stores well before Xmas of '87, even though the official dates are early '88! This whole subject really needs a LOT of cleaning up, from a historical perspective.
Anyway, I would definitely agree that this brief non-sealed "window" was most likely very localized to the earliest test market areas only (NY/NJ, Los Angeles and maybe San Francisco). And yes, mid/late '87 was definitely too late for any non-sealed games, even in those areas.
Originally posted by: 1upped
In addition to the comments above, many of the promo photos (most) were taken of NES games w/no shrinkwrap---this practice took place throughout the systems lifespan as I have many store display photos and pamphlets made by Nintendo that showed the games w/o wrap late into the game (SMB3 comes to mind) and it makes sense as the look, for promotional purposes, looks much cleaner& glossier w/o wrap --- I am not second guessing Brain Breakers memory however, as he was actually in a test market to draw from---I am just saying there is nothing that has been shown to back up his recollection and it is still my belief that the games always had some type of seal---whether it be sticker or shrinkwrap---although I would love to be disproven as it would be a neat early story about NES games
No, you misunderstand. These are actual photos taken in working stores (such as the FAO Schwarz in NYC) by Japanese game mag photographers, not official Nintendo promo shots.
Originally posted by: Brain Breaker
Before I head out for the day, here's just one example that I happen to have handy of how you should never really trust the official dates. It's from a 1987 Merchandisers Manual, which I believe may have even come from a poster here at NA. I had long remembered getting Renegade (and discussing it extensively with my friends in school, as we had all been big fans of the arcade version for over a year) in the autumn of '87, well before its officially listed release date of January 1988. Well, lo and behold, check out this filled out inventory form from a K-Mart in Seattle, circa early November, 1987. It's listed as a "new arrival", and as already having sold six copies! It's material like this that I've come across over the years, as well as my Japanese gaming magazines (some of which were actually covering the early NES scene as it actually happened, unlike the US media) that taught me to trust my own memories and research over whatever the generally accepted "official" information happens to be.
Great picture! I love stuff like this. It's like going back in time!
Originally posted by: Brain Breaker
Before I head out for the day, here's just one example that I happen to have handy of how you should never really trust the official dates. It's from a 1987 Merchandisers Manual, which I believe may have even come from a poster here at NA. I had long remembered getting Renegade (and discussing it extensively with my friends in school, as we had all been big fans of the arcade version for over a year) in the autumn of '87, well before its officially listed release date of January 1988. Well, lo and behold, check out this filled out inventory form from a K-Mart in Seattle, circa early November, 1987. It's listed as a "new arrival", and as already having sold six copies! It's material like this that I've come across over the years, as well as my Japanese gaming magazines (some of which were actually covering the early NES scene as it actually happened, unlike the US media) that taught me to trust my own memories and research over whatever the generally accepted "official" information happens to be.
One of the more interesting posts I've read in a long time, the picture is worth 1,000 words. Thanks for sharing!
Nice!
Finally got a nice Blaster Master, one of my favorite NES games. The label is wrong, (it's a black seal not a white seal):
Top Gun non revA
Originally posted by: blarky
What? No DK Math's or Volleyballs in the background?
Nice!
Well there *is* a Balloon Fight I guess?
Originally posted by: Braveheart69
Wow Blarky I see 5 labels that are technically wrong in those pics. 3 black seals listed as white and 2 early round Soq's that were later rereleased as white oval Soq's that are just listed as white seal. I assume they would fix those for free if you send them back? Reason I ask is because I got in two 85+ that should have gold stickers but came with silver stickers. I need to get those fixed as well...
Three blacks seals listed as white: Blaster Master, Galga, WoF?
2 early round soq's later released as white oval: RC Pro Am, Bomberman?
Yes, they would fix these for free. I just don't think they've gotten enough examples of all the variants to really know all the differences. I've seen lots of mistakes here, particularly in the 'type of seal' field that I hope they improve on.
And wolfie, kick ass monkey island!