Nes Development Kit

Hey all.



This idea has run through my mind a few times since I have started working on my most recent project.  I was wondering what the interest would be in an NES dev kit.  The kit would be all inclusive to get someone up and running developing for the NES.  It would have all the tools I have created for my own development use including:



-Flashable NES cartridge Easily configurable NES dev cartridge (dip switches instead of soldering pads to select things like horizontal/vertical mirroring)

-Custom ROM programmer and transfer cable (connects to computer via usb and to dev cart via a proprietary connection.  Cartridge can be programmed in a matter of a few seconds without being removed from the dev system)

-Transfer software for the computer to connect to the programmer and provide services like ROM erase, dump, burn, verify.

-A well written tutorial to get people started, as well as a useful reference guide

-Well documented code and example programs for beginners and intermediates alike to understand how things work

-A few different software tools for users to choose from and documentation on how to use them and pros and cons of all of them (cc65, asm6, nesasm, etc.)



I wanted to gauge people's interest in this, and if it is high enough I would put resources into creating this and also starting a kickstarter to help fund this.



Feel free to reply with ideas, or at least if you'd be interested in something like this or not!



-mham

Comments

  • I don't really understand what advantage this has to what already exists. Were you going to make your own stuff, or just package things that already exist? It honestly doesn't seem worth the time and effort.
  • Really it depends on the price point and if you would offer "tech support" on it. People like me who don't have the time to scour through multiple programs and threads, it might be easy enough to be beneficial. It has to be intuitive and easy to follow through all the complexities and steps, not just the basics.
  • I made my own hardware for my own development and I would disagree that there are already things like this. Beginning NES development, it can be daunting because there is a lot of "stuff" but not much that is really helpful. My dev tools are made for a fast development process on actual hardware, and I thought that perhaps people would be interested in a development kit that has organized and cohesive documentation as well as the tools needed to develop on actual hardware.

    As far as "tech support", the hardware is really just plug and play, it would be very well documented to figure out how to use it, probably include some videos and tutorials. But in terms of coding, there isn't going to be a way to ever have documentation that answers every possible question someone will have. Professionally, I work as a programmer and there are still times I run into problems where this is no documentation on a certain problem and I am left to figure it out on my own.

    That is the beauty of a forum like this; so people can ask their question to knowledgeable people willing to give them a helping hand.

    The dev tools give the people using it a springboard to start, and when they reach complexities in a specific game or project, they will probably just end up bringing it to a forum.
  • Honestly, these days there is not much use for HW-based devkits. Every single game of those that I have made in the last decade for various retro platforms were done using emulators only. There were few cases when a test on HW would be nice, and I had to ask people who had a regular Flash cart to do the test (couldn't afford one), but that was less than even 1% of the time spent on all these projects. The HW sure is a 'true' thing, but emulators are faster (one click = instant compile and getting result on the screen), easier to use (no need to TV set and bunch of wires around), and offer great debugging features - not only actual debuggers, but also movie recording, pause, frame advance etc, that helps to catch bugs a lot. Not to mention that software tools are mostly free.



    On the other hand, there are always people who just like to play with the hardware, or want to feel the retro approach to development. But I'd say these are separate goals from making a game.



    So, my vision of a modern NES SDK is a free software package, with an optional HW counterpart, which could be just as well replaced with a regular Flash cart like PowerPak.
  • As Shiru said, almost all dev is done on emulators with debuggers so the hardware component wouldn't get used much. I did Glider completely on hardware (with uv eproms!) just for the experience but wouldn't recommend it just because of RAM watching and breakpoints. While they aren't the most user friendly, CopyNES + PowerPak Lite or PowerPak + serial cable can already do the automatic instant in system downloading.



    If you made the tutorial/examples/software side into a real programming book that might do well enough. Not something I would use but I would support a kickstarter to get it printed.

  • Originally posted by: bunnyboy



    If you made the tutorial/examples/software side into a real programming book that might do well enough. Not something I would use but I would support a kickstarter to get it printed.



     I would love this in electronic or printed form!!!


  • Okay, so it sounds like, at least from those who have responded to this so far would be interested in the documentation portion of this (or at least support the idea).



    I think the thing is that I am very nostalgic and I enjoy being as true as possible to how things were done "back in the day". I wrote the ROM for one of my homebrew z80 computers completely by hand (by flipping switches!)

    So I am more inclined to seeing the progress of a game being built on actual hardware. For lack of a better word it's more tactile for me, and it seems truer to the process. I understand this is not the same for most people i'm sure.
  • Nope. Any dev with good reason will program using emus, and hardware test their stuff with a powerpak once a night. Doesn't get easier than that!
  • i do agree that having a kit like that could really benefit those of us considering diving deeper into this whole thing, i just dont think it could be made available at the right price point for me personally with where my hobby money is at right now. especially with such easy access to emus/powerpak/homemade dev carts.



    i think it is a really great idea. if your kickstarter had a sponsorship level that i could snag a good project/workbook that really helped new people see progress while developing understanding of the hardware thru different lessons, i could totally get behind that. like one of those radio shack circuit project toys but for nintendo, thats exactly what ive been looking for.




  • Originally posted by: fatalfuryspecial

     like one of those radio shack circuit project toys but for nintendo, thats exactly what ive been looking for.

     

    Thanks for your feedback!  If I was to go through with making a dev kit like this, my goal would be $100 price point.  And that is everything to get someone started with developing on actual hardare.  I like this idea of a workbook that you all have suggested.  I think this is something I could do, and perhaps some of you who are well know nes devs could contribute to in some capacity (just a suggestion).  It most certainly would not be and end all be all encycolpedia with everything there is to know about the nes, but I think a book that encompasses all the topics that go in to how the nes works, developing for the nes, testing on hardware, all the while giving example code for the reader to try out, is a great idea.



    I'm not looking to make loads of money off of this program.  I am passionate about the nes and retro gaming and I am sure tht there are plenty of developers out there with ideas that they could bring to the nes but just don't know where to start.

    It's one of my dreams to see a resurgence in development for the nes and to see more games urfacing for the console.

    an 8-bit style game on an iphone is just not the same as if it were played on a nintendo.
  • It's an awesome idea! And not bad price wise either! All the hardware + workbook, $100 seems very fair.
  • I will buy the book for sure. Not so sure about the hardware, though. Depends on price.
  • I'd definitely be interested!
  • I support you 100%. I love this idea. I've been interested in NES programming for a while now but am super busy with work which leaves little time for me to slowly learn programming Assembly. Having all the necessary tools in one orgainzed package makes sense to me -> aka someone with zero programming experience.
  • thanks oishii san! I am still considering this idea, as the responses have been almost split 50/50 between people who would like this and people who don't find it necessary.

    i will keep the community updated as this idea progresses!
  • Are you going to make this development kit, start your store, and build a homebrew game all in parallel? If so, I truly tip my hat to you sir. I barely have enough time with a day job and everything else to just make the homebrew games I want, and those take years. If you ended up having to prioritize, I'd say make the game. Just my two cents!
  • I like to do a lot of things! I have always had a lot on my plate but many of those things are done with or have passed. Aside from my full time job as a programmer, I am about 10 hrs in to getting my private pilot's license, and I want to pursue some of the game related things I have never gotten to do. I am actually working on this game with a coworker of mine, so it's not a load that falls entirely on me. As for the dev kit, I don't plan to do that any time soon. I am thinking about building this game, and refining my tools along the way and sharing them with everyone once the game is done. Then go from there!



    As for the shop...



    I like to tinker with the hardware in my spare time. And there are plenty of these shops that do this same kind of stuff online already, but I just like doing it! I think it will be something fun that I can include my girlfriend on (she is an artist). She has a passion for games as well and she also has an eye for design so I think this is a little venture that will make both of us happy!



    I like to take on a lot, but I try to take on things that make me happy! (also, with taking on a lot, if you get bored or overwhelmed with one of the things, you can jump to something else and come back to it).

  • It's been a couple week's since I have posted on the forum, but for the sake of those who might be interested in this game, it has come a really long way since I've last posted. My colleague and I have been really fleshing out more and more details on the storyline as we work out the mechanics of the game. He is doing a lot of design and has started on sprites and background tiles, and has a playable character on screen along with all of the other sprites he has designed. I have been still working on our hardware development tools, as well as working on some graphics, and sound design. I will get some visuals up later on in the day for you all to see!

  • Originally posted by: GradualGames



    Are you going to make this development kit, start your store, and build a homebrew game all in parallel? If so, I truly tip my hat to you sir. I barely have enough time with a day job and everything else to just make the homebrew games I want, and those take years. If you ended up having to prioritize, I'd say make the game. Just my two cents!



    Without teachers, the world cannot grow.
  • Thanks for the update! Looking forward to all the projects you have coming.
  • As a software developer myself I'd pay $50 for a kit.
  • ideally, I want the kit to be as accessible as possible. The route I am going, I am really just working on this game, and building/refining my development tools, and writing some documentation along the way. By the end of this game's development I hope to have a pretty decent kit that I can release. I could possibly release 2 or 3 versions. A full kit with tutorials, docs, hardware, etc, an maybe a lite version of the kit with just the hardware. This will be more appealing to those of you who are already developers and don't need tutorials and such.

    As always I will keep everyone posted on the progress of this kit, as well as the game!
Sign In or Register to comment.