I think graphics can (and will) get a ton better. They haven't even gotten close to what a real face looks and moves like. Moving water still looks meh.
These sorts of graphics improvements are not a matter of better hardware, necessarily, so much as the money required to generate the art assets.
For a AAA title you are probably talking about shifting the decimal point to jump to photo realistic in-game characters.
We're at the point where huge graphical leaps are no longer a possibility. What's being pushed now is processing power, FPS, and who can fit the most rag doll bodies on the screen at once
You have to give it time. Look at Gun on the original XBOX and compare it to the 360. Almost similar, but if you look at games now compared to a launch title on 360, they're not the same as they where years ago.
I'm still waiting until they can make games look and feel like I was watching CG movie in-game. Also, frame rates at a constant 60 fps wouldn't hurt either. They're getting there.
I read the 1st page of this thread and from what I can understand he difference between this gen and next is like the difference bewtween the 1st seaon of South Park and the third. Everything was pretty much the same except they added shadows and put in real fire effects instead of contruction paper ones.
This video is a good example of what I'm talking about. One thing I can't help but wonder is why is the PS3/X360 version all fogged up? Isn't that cheating (making the PS3/X360 look worse than it reall is or should be)?
It's not fog, it's lower resolution textures. I'm play BFBC2 right now, and will tell you it looks 100x better than Battlefield 3 or 4, but it's because EA gave up with making console engines, and focused on just minimally downporting the PC one, with shitty textures instead of scaling the quality with distance, like in BFBC2.
So yet ANOTHER moral of this story boys and girls is that even the very best tools and the very best materials for creating a work of art (video games or otherwise) are only as good as the artists who use them. Nuff said.
Okay now this is a little more like it. Not only can one clearly see the difference but they even explain precisely what they can do with the PS4 versus a PS3.
That actually doesn't look like the multiplayer I am talking about though, those textures are damn close to each other. This is a console limitation, not them trying to make you buy a new system. They just not as high of quality, that's it. What the heck is wrong with that? Maybe the artist can only make so much detail as the systems texture buffer, which is probably about 6x smaller than PS4's, isn't as good with assets made for a game that has 2x-4x the detail.
ETA to the reply: They pointed out one minor thing, and of course polygon counts. To read what these new consoles can do, educate yourself on PC graphics cards features from 6 year old cards to 3 year old cards to now. Biggest improvments: Faster RAM, More RAM, more polygons, more textures, and CUDA cores and stream buffers going from hundreds to thousands. They all play a seperate part in the effects of DX11 and OpenGL. Look at the demos using the new API features with of course better detail, textures, etc. But now more games are using amazing lighting and even warping video around explosions, much like heat changes the way you see in distance while in a car. Those are possible from the recent advancements, mainly the cuda cores/stream processors. The streams+cudas also help with every single other effect, making it easier, to have more of them, etc. Just....they're not making bad games, these systems are just 7 years old and ANCIENT with the advancements of DX11 features that are now possible because of streamlining graphics and graphics features more, which helps tons for everyone.
It takes a while for developers to get the most out of the console's hardware. Look at PS1 games in 1995 compared to 1999, or PS2 games in 2000 compared to 2005, they look a lot better as they find more ways to utilize the hardware to their advantage. Current generation is still in its infancy, bring this same topic up in about 4 years and you'll see the difference.
Played both the Xbox one and PS4. The gen differences were barely noticeable. Ok controllers though.
How did the PS4 controller feel compared to the dualshock 3? I have fallen in love with the dualshock 3 and use it for everything now.. I didn't like the look of the new one, and I was worried it might not feel quite right and might not work as well as a PC gamepad as well due to the extra features. Did you use the touchpad on it at all?
Xbox one grips are too straight. No smoothness and I can see griping it for too long hurting hands. PS4 was much better. Touch pad feels nice WHEN it wants to work. Duelshock is still my favourite controller, SNES being second.
I dunno, gang. I personally think that the original Super Mario Bros. looks the same as New Super Mario Bros. Wii, with a few notable exceptions. It's all in the eye of the beholder. All you haters can keep bickering.
No, I jest. It's getting to the point where, as said early on in this thread, you can't do much more as far as the graphics go. To me, it's like arguing about which sounds better... CDs or them gold CDs. Well, compared to the newest remastered, remixed CDs... Both sound like shit.
If you go back to when the PS3 and 360 first came out and compared the graphics then to where they're at now, there's a big difference. It takes a bit of time for developers to fully grasp what a console is capable of.
Although from now on graphic improvements will be smaller each generation as hardware is starting to peak.
Yeah, post the PS2 era, the huge graphical leaps have gotten smaller and smaller. But that is what makes Nintendo as a company so genius in hindsight, since they saw that shit coming long ago and diverted down a different path from Sony and Microsoft post Gamecube.
Now, Is the Wii U a failure currently? Yes, most would agree. But who's to say that won't change for the better in three years, or pave the way for something completely revolutionary twenty years from now, when the 'Wii Everyone' debuts? The seeds is what matters here, I think, and all along, Nintendo has always touted gameplay over graphics and they were right. I didn't believe them when I was a kid but I do now.
There is going to be a push to more realism, like the discussed format of 4k, and the same questions being asked from xbox/ps2 to now. It takes awhile to make that transition because they don't want to loose current profits, so a game like Assassins Creed 4 is appear on both old and new systems, and they are not taking full advantage of the next gen hardware.
With the 360, Gears of War appearing just shy of a full year after launch was probably the first title from this generation to really wow gamers with graphics.
---------------------------------
For this upcoming launch we gotta look more to just graphics. We have the Xbox One, coming with the connect. All 3 systems are probably going to have tablet and camera support/integration, and it's changes like these combined with visual bumps that are the direction of the future.
For camera integration (you may not want it, but its going to be standard)
-Optional Modeling of character based on your own appearance
-Eye tracking this can be used to support and to create events in area's that you're not looking at.
-Think of having your team of friends appear along the side of your display with an active camera on their face making them appear like the starcraft characters.
-Mood tracking (this can be used to change the game on the fly and cater to the players likes/dislikes)
-Mood tracking Feedback (this has to be an opt in program, but it can be used in changes for future games)
Tablet
-We've already seen the Wii U use this for Roles, but well see this used more next gen.
-Separate display or a HUD, instead of the captain shouting or appearing on the tv, they use it for immersion and have like characters appear on the display for your chats.
-So while we are not seeing big improvements right now to the visuals, a step is coming and should be seen towards the end of 2014 when the shift to the new systems is complete.
-We'll see a concentration towards immersion devices
Okay here's a really perfect example of exactly what I mean...I just recently got a copy of Luigi's Mansion for the GC (the launch title if you recall; I had one right at launch but I stupidly sold it years ago). Now, this is only the launch title and I believe I read somewhere that Nintendo said it was only using about 5% of what the GC was capable of. But even so, it was very VERY clear that even this launch title looked WAY better than even the very best N64 graphics. And I was totally blown away seeing the Super Smash Bros Melee intro for the first time in 2001...I never seen graphics like it! And again, that was a game that came out right after launch! See, THIS is the kind of graphical leap we all fully expected with each new generation of gaming. But now when I see videos of the PS4/X1 games, I often can't help but wonder if the PS3/360 could do those same kind of graphics if the system was really pushed. But with the GC, there was never any doubt the N64 was no match for even the earliest GC games.
Actually I wasn't sure if those Pokemon were animals or robots or people or what... But now all of a sudden I want to Catch 'Em All (the G1/G2 ones at least if I ever get around to getting that "six pack")...
Well guys it looks like now other than sports titles, you mostly no longer can get a PS3 version of blue chip games. Like Final Fantasy 15 (way too many guy characters for my taste though...) and Kingdom Hearts 3 and the Final Fantasy 7 remake for example, it's PS4 or bust. If the FF7 remake sells well I hope they do a FF9 remake...I think it's honestly my favorite FF game even if FF7 gets all the fame/attention of the PS1 FF's.
Okay here's a really perfect example of exactly what I mean...I just recently got a copy of Luigi's Mansion for the GC (the launch title if you recall; I had one right at launch but I stupidly sold it years ago). Now, this is only the launch title and I believe I read somewhere that Nintendo said it was only using about 5% of what the GC was capable of. But even so, it was very VERY clear that even this launch title looked WAY better than even the very best N64 graphics. And I was totally blown away seeing the Super Smash Bros Melee intro for the first time in 2001...I never seen graphics like it! And again, that was a game that came out right after launch! See, THIS is the kind of graphical leap we all fully expected with each new generation of gaming. But now when I see videos of the PS4/X1 games, I often can't help but wonder if the PS3/360 could do those same kind of graphics if the system was really pushed. But with the GC, there was never any doubt the N64 was no match for even the earliest GC games.
This is for multiple reasons, the main thing about graphics with PS3 vs PS4 isn't in realism by character models, but realism by having better lighting and shadows, higher draw distance, and overall environmental processing. You might not notice a huge difference at first glance, but it's there.
So now the Nintendo Switch is upcoming...yet unlike when the SNES, N64, GC was first announced (when I was so excited and couldn't wait to get my mitts on them), I kinda feel, meh. I mean I'm sure the Switch will be a fine eh, console/handheld/whatever it's supposed to be but I guess I got so much backlog to get caught up on and like I said in the OP, it's as if the games just don't look/sound hardly any better from gen to gen (is Switch a 9th gen or 8 1/2 gen?). As opposed to in the past where for example, even the very best looking N64 games were no match for Luigi's Mansion (GC launch title)...and I was so blown away seeing the Super Smash Bros Melee on the Circuit City TV (those were the days...)
Yes they will. This console generation is incredibly strong. The PS4 Pro was the very definition of a non-game-changing system release. It came out with a premium price tag and little hype/fanfare, and PS4 sales have more than doubled (more than tripled in the UK) since its release. People buy consoles. I see editors on mobile gaming sites constantly singing the early eulogy of the gaming console, saying they'll be dead in no time thanks to mobile devices and PCs. It's a very strange phenomenon, since there is no data or statistics to support a claim that gaming consoles are going the way of the dodo. They're not.
Yes they will. This console generation is incredibly strong. The PS4 Pro was the very definition of a non-game-changing system release. It came out with a premium price tag and little hype/fanfare, and PS4 sales have more than doubled (more than tripled in the UK) since its release. People buy consoles. I see editors on mobile gaming sites constantly singing the early eulogy of the gaming console, saying they'll be dead in no time thanks to mobile devices and PCs. It's a very strange phenomenon, since there is no data or statistics to support a claim that gaming consoles are going the way of the dodo. They're not.
Edit: By the way Estil, holy necro-thread lol.
Lol you call him out for necroposting and yet you quoted someone, who also happens to be banned for a year now
I'll take this necro even further back and ask why 7th generation games didn't look that much better than 6th generation games.
Looking at a game like Super Mario Galaxy and realizing that it's essentially running on 2001 hardware, it's clear that a little bit of extra polish in developing goes a long way (texturing the shadow detail of his fingers rather than rendering them with real-time lighting, for example). A lot of the leap was from a shift in game design (larger teams, bigger budgets, etc). Nintendo openly spoke of graphics reaching the point where any game could be made on any system with varying levels of graphical fidelity and, thus, performance was no longer relevant to whether a particular game could be made for a particular system. Yes, you could water-down Modern Warfare to play on a GameCube. You couldn't, however, make a touch screen or Wii Remote pointer game on a 360 or PS3 as they existed at launch without huge compromises, which is why they chose the path they chose. Obviously, they chose right because the Wii was easily more successful than anything they've ever done and blew away the more powerful competition, who ultimately tried to imitate Nintendo's strategy of gameplay innovation before performance (Move, Kinect, band games, etc).
Heck, most players didn't even realize the those Burger King games from 2005 were actually original XBOX games in XBOX 360-style packaging. Many more who noticed the graphical difference chalked it up to them being almost-free advergames rather than games from the previous generation.
Yes they will. This console generation is incredibly strong. The PS4 Pro was the very definition of a non-game-changing system release. It came out with a premium price tag and little hype/fanfare, and PS4 sales have more than doubled (more than tripled in the UK) since its release. People buy consoles. I see editors on mobile gaming sites constantly singing the early eulogy of the gaming console, saying they'll be dead in no time thanks to mobile devices and PCs. It's a very strange phenomenon, since there is no data or statistics to support a claim that gaming consoles are going the way of the dodo. They're not.
Edit: By the way Estil, holy necro-thread lol.
Lol you call him out for necroposting and yet you quoted someone, who also happens to be banned for a year now
"Call him out?" I realized after I posted that all the old replies except the last one were from years ago. I fail to see the "yet" here, which eludes that I've somehow hypocritically done something to do with necro-bumping to a thread that was on the first page.
Comments
Originally posted by: TetrisMattress
I think graphics can (and will) get a ton better. They haven't even gotten close to what a real face looks and moves like. Moving water still looks meh.
These sorts of graphics improvements are not a matter of better hardware, necessarily, so much as the money required to generate the art assets.
For a AAA title you are probably talking about shifting the decimal point to jump to photo realistic in-game characters.
I'm still waiting until they can make games look and feel like I was watching CG movie in-game. Also, frame rates at a constant 60 fps wouldn't hurt either. They're getting there.
This video is a good example of what I'm talking about. One thing I can't help but wonder is why is the PS3/X360 version all fogged up? Isn't that cheating (making the PS3/X360 look worse than it reall is or should be)?
Okay now this is a little more like it. Not only can one clearly see the difference but they even explain precisely what they can do with the PS4 versus a PS3.
ETA to the reply: They pointed out one minor thing, and of course polygon counts. To read what these new consoles can do, educate yourself on PC graphics cards features from 6 year old cards to 3 year old cards to now. Biggest improvments: Faster RAM, More RAM, more polygons, more textures, and CUDA cores and stream buffers going from hundreds to thousands. They all play a seperate part in the effects of DX11 and OpenGL. Look at the demos using the new API features with of course better detail, textures, etc. But now more games are using amazing lighting and even warping video around explosions, much like heat changes the way you see in distance while in a car. Those are possible from the recent advancements, mainly the cuda cores/stream processors. The streams+cudas also help with every single other effect, making it easier, to have more of them, etc. Just....they're not making bad games, these systems are just 7 years old and ANCIENT with the advancements of DX11 features that are now possible because of streamlining graphics and graphics features more, which helps tons for everyone.
Originally posted by: DarkTone
Played both the Xbox one and PS4. The gen differences were barely noticeable. Ok controllers though.
How did the PS4 controller feel compared to the dualshock 3? I have fallen in love with the dualshock 3 and use it for everything now.. I didn't like the look of the new one, and I was worried it might not feel quite right and might not work as well as a PC gamepad as well due to the extra features. Did you use the touchpad on it at all?
Xbox one grips are too straight. No smoothness and I can see griping it for too long hurting hands. PS4 was much better. Touch pad feels nice WHEN it wants to work. Duelshock is still my favourite controller, SNES being second.
No, I jest. It's getting to the point where, as said early on in this thread, you can't do much more as far as the graphics go. To me, it's like arguing about which sounds better... CDs or them gold CDs. Well, compared to the newest remastered, remixed CDs... Both sound like shit.
Although from now on graphic improvements will be smaller each generation as hardware is starting to peak.
Playing Knack.
Some electric mouse. Heard he was famous or something.
Now, Is the Wii U a failure currently? Yes, most would agree. But who's to say that won't change for the better in three years, or pave the way for something completely revolutionary twenty years from now, when the 'Wii Everyone' debuts? The seeds is what matters here, I think, and all along, Nintendo has always touted gameplay over graphics and they were right. I didn't believe them when I was a kid but I do now.
With the 360, Gears of War appearing just shy of a full year after launch was probably the first title from this generation to really wow gamers with graphics.
---------------------------------
For this upcoming launch we gotta look more to just graphics. We have the Xbox One, coming with the connect. All 3 systems are probably going to have tablet and camera support/integration, and it's changes like these combined with visual bumps that are the direction of the future.
For camera integration (you may not want it, but its going to be standard)
-Optional Modeling of character based on your own appearance
-Eye tracking this can be used to support and to create events in area's that you're not looking at.
-Think of having your team of friends appear along the side of your display with an active camera on their face making them appear like the starcraft characters.
-Mood tracking (this can be used to change the game on the fly and cater to the players likes/dislikes)
-Mood tracking Feedback (this has to be an opt in program, but it can be used in changes for future games)
Tablet
-We've already seen the Wii U use this for Roles, but well see this used more next gen.
-Separate display or a HUD, instead of the captain shouting or appearing on the tv, they use it for immersion and have like characters appear on the display for your chats.
Projector
-Environment immersion
-Early "hologram" usagage
Occulus like devices
http://www.oculusvr.com/
----------------------------------
-So while we are not seeing big improvements right now to the visuals, a step is coming and should be seen towards the end of 2014 when the shift to the new systems is complete.
-We'll see a concentration towards immersion devices
Originally posted by: DarkTone
Some electric mouse. Heard he was famous or something.
Doesn't look electric.
Originally posted by: cradelit
Originally posted by: DarkTone
Some electric mouse. Heard he was famous or something.
Doesn't look electric.
Newest unlockable fighter in Super Smash Bros... Shaq from his glorious fighting game!
Okay here's a really perfect example of exactly what I mean...I just recently got a copy of Luigi's Mansion for the GC (the launch title if you recall; I had one right at launch but I stupidly sold it years ago). Now, this is only the launch title and I believe I read somewhere that Nintendo said it was only using about 5% of what the GC was capable of. But even so, it was very VERY clear that even this launch title looked WAY better than even the very best N64 graphics. And I was totally blown away seeing the Super Smash Bros Melee intro for the first time in 2001...I never seen graphics like it! And again, that was a game that came out right after launch! See, THIS is the kind of graphical leap we all fully expected with each new generation of gaming. But now when I see videos of the PS4/X1 games, I often can't help but wonder if the PS3/360 could do those same kind of graphics if the system was really pushed. But with the GC, there was never any doubt the N64 was no match for even the earliest GC games.
This is for multiple reasons, the main thing about graphics with PS3 vs PS4 isn't in realism by character models, but realism by having better lighting and shadows, higher draw distance, and overall environmental processing. You might not notice a huge difference at first glance, but it's there.
They'll release new systems
Nobody will buy it
Yes they will. This console generation is incredibly strong. The PS4 Pro was the very definition of a non-game-changing system release. It came out with a premium price tag and little hype/fanfare, and PS4 sales have more than doubled (more than tripled in the UK) since its release. People buy consoles. I see editors on mobile gaming sites constantly singing the early eulogy of the gaming console, saying they'll be dead in no time thanks to mobile devices and PCs. It's a very strange phenomenon, since there is no data or statistics to support a claim that gaming consoles are going the way of the dodo. They're not.
Edit: By the way Estil, holy necro-thread lol.
They'll release new systems
Nobody will buy it
Yes they will. This console generation is incredibly strong. The PS4 Pro was the very definition of a non-game-changing system release. It came out with a premium price tag and little hype/fanfare, and PS4 sales have more than doubled (more than tripled in the UK) since its release. People buy consoles. I see editors on mobile gaming sites constantly singing the early eulogy of the gaming console, saying they'll be dead in no time thanks to mobile devices and PCs. It's a very strange phenomenon, since there is no data or statistics to support a claim that gaming consoles are going the way of the dodo. They're not.
Edit: By the way Estil, holy necro-thread lol.
Lol you call him out for necroposting and yet you quoted someone, who also happens to be banned for a year now
Looking at a game like Super Mario Galaxy and realizing that it's essentially running on 2001 hardware, it's clear that a little bit of extra polish in developing goes a long way (texturing the shadow detail of his fingers rather than rendering them with real-time lighting, for example). A lot of the leap was from a shift in game design (larger teams, bigger budgets, etc). Nintendo openly spoke of graphics reaching the point where any game could be made on any system with varying levels of graphical fidelity and, thus, performance was no longer relevant to whether a particular game could be made for a particular system. Yes, you could water-down Modern Warfare to play on a GameCube. You couldn't, however, make a touch screen or Wii Remote pointer game on a 360 or PS3 as they existed at launch without huge compromises, which is why they chose the path they chose. Obviously, they chose right because the Wii was easily more successful than anything they've ever done and blew away the more powerful competition, who ultimately tried to imitate Nintendo's strategy of gameplay innovation before performance (Move, Kinect, band games, etc).
Heck, most players didn't even realize the those Burger King games from 2005 were actually original XBOX games in XBOX 360-style packaging. Many more who noticed the graphical difference chalked it up to them being almost-free advergames rather than games from the previous generation.
They'll release new systems
Nobody will buy it
Yes they will. This console generation is incredibly strong. The PS4 Pro was the very definition of a non-game-changing system release. It came out with a premium price tag and little hype/fanfare, and PS4 sales have more than doubled (more than tripled in the UK) since its release. People buy consoles. I see editors on mobile gaming sites constantly singing the early eulogy of the gaming console, saying they'll be dead in no time thanks to mobile devices and PCs. It's a very strange phenomenon, since there is no data or statistics to support a claim that gaming consoles are going the way of the dodo. They're not.
Edit: By the way Estil, holy necro-thread lol.
Lol you call him out for necroposting and yet you quoted someone, who also happens to be banned for a year now
"Call him out?" I realized after I posted that all the old replies except the last one were from years ago. I fail to see the "yet" here, which eludes that I've somehow hypocritically done something to do with necro-bumping to a thread that was on the first page.