N64 Repro & Homebrew Carts?
With all the homebrew developments over the past few years? Hell, even months...
How far away are we from eventually seeing repro N64 carts and Homebrew carts?
There's genuinely some N64 hacks I actually would love to play on a console instead of having to try and deal with wonky emulators and joystick to USB hookups and such... be a lot easier to be able to just make a cart [ala donor if need be] to enjoy them on my N64.
I have a hunch it's still a ways off.. but one never knows unless they ask.
How far away are we from eventually seeing repro N64 carts and Homebrew carts?
There's genuinely some N64 hacks I actually would love to play on a console instead of having to try and deal with wonky emulators and joystick to USB hookups and such... be a lot easier to be able to just make a cart [ala donor if need be] to enjoy them on my N64.
I have a hunch it's still a ways off.. but one never knows unless they ask.
Comments
Figured there was a way to make N64 carts with ROM Hacks or Homebrews like already has been done for NES, SNES and Genesis.
Secondly, N64 ROMs don't work like 8-bit or 16-bit parallel ROM chips of old systems. The N64 sends a read address to the ROM (which has to be even) along with a set number of bytes to read. The ROM sends back the requested data through a series/parallel interface, either 8- or 16-bits per clock (I forgot which) until the block of address space is loaded into console memory. Because the reads are done in series via a wide parallel bus connection at a very high clock rate, reading from the cartridge is extremely fast and nearly instantaneous. The CPU is not tied up requesting every single byte of info like with older consoles.
Due to the nature of the way the N64 Mask ROMs work (sending data serially in parallel chunks instead of one byte at a time), a repro cartridge would need a dedicated microcontroller to stream the data from a standard flash ROM to the console at very high speed. While NAND flash memory is cheap, the ROMs would have to be burned to more expensive NOR flash memory to work due to the chunk based nature of NAND flash being incompatible. And larger NOR Flash memories don't exist because they were superceeded by cheaper NAND flash. This limitation can be worked around by copying the ROM onto a RAM chip and reading the game out of RAM. By the time everything is implemented, you have most of the hardware necessary to build a fully functional flash cart like the Everdrive 64, sans the SD card slot.
So, N64 homebrews, if they existed, and if they were worthy to be played on real hardware, would be pushing $100 or more a piece to manufacture in small batches. Far too expensive IMO. No homebrews exist at the moment and most hacks are broken on real hardware, so there is no motivation to build a custom repro for N64. Homebrew is a big problem for N64 because all existing games used an official SDK which homebrewers do not have access to and could not legally use due to copyright law. There are a few tech demos still floating around from the 90s, but nothing truly playable beyond "draw 2D or 3D object on screen and animate it."
Believe me, if N64 homebrew existed, I would buy them. The fact most of the decent games were put out by RARE or Nintendo and I already have many of the ones I want, plus no or few working hacks or homebrews, is the main reason why N64 is the one cartridge based home console I own that I don't own a flash cart for.
http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=86023
http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=56489
http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=93587
http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=113817
I've always had an interest in getting a translated copy of Wonder Project J 2 out in the masses for N64 enthusiasts (I'm not one but am a fan of that game).
The closest thing right now someone could do is use an flash-cart and then make a unique sticker for the game cart itself so you could "pretend" what you're playing is a legit release on it's own board. As far as I'm aware there's still no universally accepted way to make proper n64 repros (in the sense of the NES/Genesis/SNeS variety).
What titles or homebrew were you looking at?
Originally posted by: stardust4ever
If you are interested in playing Super Mario 64 hacks on your N64, forget it. The tools required to make the hacks possible require an expanded/uncompressed 24Mbyte M64 ROM. The expanded base M64 ROM that everyone uses doesn't even work on real hardware, so any hacks are pretty much out of the question. I think the issue lies in the address system. The N64 cannot initiate reads from odd bytes within the ROM, even only. Emulators support reading from odd bytes, so this was never checked when the hacking tools were being developed, since the Everdrive did not exist in 2005-ish. So, unless address tables are shuffled around in the base ROM, no existing hacks will work. And a new base ROM would break compatibility with existing hacking tools.
Secondly, N64 ROMs don't work like 8-bit or 16-bit parallel ROM chips of old systems. The N64 sends a read address to the ROM (which has to be even) along with a set number of bytes to read. The ROM sends back the requested data through a series/parallel interface, either 8- or 16-bits per clock (I forgot which) until the block of address space is loaded into console memory. Because the reads are done in series via a wide parallel bus connection at a very high clock rate, reading from the cartridge is extremely fast and nearly instantaneous. The CPU is not tied up requesting every single byte of info like with older consoles.
Due to the nature of the way the N64 Mask ROMs work (sending data serially in parallel chunks instead of one byte at a time), a repro cartridge would need a dedicated microcontroller to stream the data from a standard flash ROM to the console at very high speed. While NAND flash memory is cheap, the ROMs would have to be burned to more expensive NOR flash memory to work due to the chunk based nature of NAND flash being incompatible. And larger NOR Flash memories don't exist because they were superceeded by cheaper NAND flash. This limitation can be worked around by copying the ROM onto a RAM chip and reading the game out of RAM. By the time everything is implemented, you have most of the hardware necessary to build a fully functional flash cart like the Everdrive 64, sans the SD card slot.
So, N64 homebrews, if they existed, and if they were worthy to be played on real hardware, would be pushing $100 or more a piece to manufacture in small batches. Far too expensive IMO. No homebrews exist at the moment and most hacks are broken on real hardware, so there is no motivation to build a custom repro for N64. Homebrew is a big problem for N64 because all existing games used an official SDK which homebrewers do not have access to and could not legally use due to copyright law. There are a few tech demos still floating around from the 90s, but nothing truly playable beyond "draw 2D or 3D object on screen and animate it."
Believe me, if N64 homebrew existed, I would buy them. The fact most of the decent games were put out by RARE or Nintendo and I already have many of the ones I want, plus no or few working hacks or homebrews, is the main reason why N64 is the one cartridge based home console I own that I don't own a flash cart for.
o.o;;
Wowsers... I didn't even realize it was that absolutely crazy. Guess that means even an Everdrive would not help me in that case.
Thankfully I have almost all the games in the library that I want, so I guess I am fortunate there. The stupid rare ones that hold any interest will remain as just that. A pipe dream.
Thank you very kindly for taking the time to explain this all, I really appreciate the insight to this.