Dragon Quest 3 English Reproduction

Here is how you make a DQ3 repro that saves.  You Need:

A HiROM PCB

1 32mbit TSOP

1 16mbit TSOP

2 TSOP to DIP boards

1 139 memory decoder

All your basic soldering stuff



To start off I programmed both my TSOP chips and tested them with this board I made

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=134446

After the test I knew that both TSOP chips were programmed correctly.



Next I soldered the 32mbit chip into the PCB, my desoldering iron sucks so I ran wires between every point on both chips except for the /OE pin.



Next I cut the trace that goes from the /OE pad on the PCB to the MAD-1 chip

image



Once I had the trace cut and both TSOPs connected it is time to wire them into the 139

image



Here is the completed board

image

image



And yes it saves. 
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Comments

  • Nice work! On a HiRom cartridge, EPROM pin 35 is really "A23", not A22. On a low rom cart, because the addresses are shifted by 1 above A14, then it would be A22.

    Also, you should ground your inputs on the other side of the decoder.

  • Originally posted by: MarkFrisbie



    Nice work! On a HiRom cartridge, EPROM pin 35 is really "A23", not A22. On a low rom cart, because the addresses are shifted by 1 above A14, then it would be A22.

    Also, you should ground your inputs on the other side of the decoder.





    Didn't know about the address shifting, all the pinout I have seen show it as A22.  Changed the picture to say pin 35.



    Also any reason reason to ground out the 2 inputs on the other side?  The data sheet says it is 2 independant decoders on one chip, I have used a 139 to use more than a single 27C801 before and left them floating without any issues.
  • Even though you aren't using that side, it's good practice to not have the inputs floating. The data sheets usually recommend you ground the inputs. It's about conserving power too.  You wouldn't notice any performance issues.  It's just good electronics practice.  



    oh, and your wiring of the 139 is exactly correct too which is why it does indeed save.
  • thanks for sharing man!
  • Maskrom pin 35 is always A22 even in HiRom or LoRom, the difference is the slot pin they are wired to.



    The 139 is a dual decoder, so if you're not using the second decoder you don't need to wire its inputs. This is because the active or enable pin is turned on when you have it at low level (L, 0 or GND), if it's floating or at Vcc the decoder is disabled.
  • Hi,

    is it possible to build a 64mbit card with this setup? When I change the 16mbit with 32mbit?

    It is an expanded rom wich I need to get running.
  • Should work, what game are you planning to make? Didn't know there were games bigger than 48mbit other than Star Ocean hack.
  • There where 2 new translations released as final versions this month. (Bahamut Lagoon and FinalFantasy 5 in german)

    They expanded the rom to 64mbit to make reproers life harder.

    I would like to have those two in my collection. Espacially FF5!



    When I have for example an BJ3M board, do I need the 139 as mem controller?

    BJ3M has already 2  36pin slots. Is rewiring the Mad1 enough in this case? Or does this give me those save issues I heard from?
  • Never used a BJ3M board, check the ROMs with ucon64 they may be padded and not need the second chip like Return to Dinosaur Land.
  • I checked it already.

    There are padded, but only with 1.5 MB. And when I look into the rom with SNES-Edit or a Hex-Editor there are some pointer tables and other stuff in the very end of the Rom...

    In the readme is written, that this has been done to make it harder to repro those translations.

    I will give it a try and when it works I will post it here.
  • I would try it like I have done dragon quest 3 just use 2 32mbit chips and it should work.
  • Hi there,



    now i found the time to build me a testing pcb with your wireing of the 139.

    I used a BJ5M board. Those have two 36 pin masksrom slots. This way I dont need so much wireing.

    I wanted to let you know, that it works great. With 48 AND 64 mbit roms!!



    Thank you for sharing your build up.

  • Originally posted by: niffel



    Hi there,



    now i found the time to build me a testing pcb with your wireing of the 139.

    I used a BJ5M board. Those have two 36 pin masksrom slots. This way I dont need so much wireing.

    I wanted to let you know, that it works great. With 48 AND 64 mbit roms!!



    Thank you for sharing your build up.

    I thought BJ3M and BJ5M are meant for 2x 16MBit max. What would I have to rewire? ;-) Got tons of BJ3M PCBs.




  • I'm not even familiar with the BJ5M board, what games utilize this PCB?

  • Originally posted by: VirtualAndy



    I'm not even familiar with the BJ5M board, what games utilize this PCB?



    :-) I've never seen one before and it's also not listed on snes central. But it would be a BJ3M with bigger SRAM...

    Might be an early SimCity 2000 or so.


  • If you plan on making one of these you can make it much cleaner by soldering the second board to the back on the main board like so:



    image



    The above image is from a Tales of Phantasia Repro but the same techniques works with this too. I've had one working that way before so I can confirm it works.
  • @ OmageRed and VitualAndy

       The BJ5M I found in Sangokushi IV and Winning Post 2 :-)  Same layout as BJ3M - only more SRam.



    @ Moothead2

       Soldering the second chip directly on the back is a good practice. But I dont have an adapter to programm my tsop chips directly. This way i would have to desolder the pins after programming :-(  



    If anyone knows a cheap adapter for tsop 40 chips for an gq-4x  let me know ;-)



    @ OmeageRed (I think I know you from SNESProjects :-), here is the wireing for an 64mbit game on a BJ3M/BJ5M PCB that saves (those pictures are from the new german translation of Bahamut lagoon and it works without problems)






  • Originally posted by: niffel




    @ Moothead2

       Soldering the second chip directly on the back is a good practice. But I dont have an adapter to programm my tsop chips directly. This way i would have to desolder the pins after programming :-(  


    If anyone knows a cheap adapter for tsop 40 chips for an
    gq-4x let me know ;-)










    http://www.buyicnow.com/bp.php?i=2623
  • Thanks for the link Josete2k, but I have allready one of these.

    This way I would need to desolder the pins after Programming.



    I meant something like this:





    But these are very expensiv (170 USD for the one in the picture )
  • Hi all, long time lurker here.

    Niffel, wouldn't it be possible to build a programming adapter with cheap pogo pins and program the chips soldered to the adapter board without the headerpins?
    Like these: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9174

  • Originally posted by: niffel



    Thanks for the link Josete2k, but I have allready one of these.

    This way I would need to desolder the pins after Programming.



    I meant something like this:





    But these are very expensiv (170 USD for the one in the picture )



    1st... Thank you!

    2nd... Yes, I'm at snes-projects too... :-)



    Like my TL866 adaptor





    over at snes-projects is compatible to the gq-4x, all programming adaptors are. You can get them for about 40 bucks.



    http://www.ebay.de/itm/TSOP32-TSOP40-TSOP48-Adapters-for-TL866CS-TL866A-Sockets-for-USB-Bios-Programmer-/281647287729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item41937c8db1



    ;-)



    Look...



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cXOLUq_sOxQ


  • I'd like to make a Star Ocean repro without the DSP-1 chip. There's a IPS that puts the ROM at 96 Mb.



    Can I follow the procedure in the OP with the addition of wiring /OE of the 3rd 32Mb TSOP to pin 6 (1Y2) of the 139?
  • Sorry to bump such an old topic but this is the best place my problem fits in.

    I was making a Bahamut Lagoon (ExHIROM) German translation cart on a SHVC-1J3M using a MX29LV640 IC.

    While the game works fine and can be dumped properly it fails to save.



    The MX29LV640 operates in BYTE mode.

    D0-D7 are going to D0-D7 SNES

    D8-D14 are ignored.

    D15 goes to A0 SNES

    A0 goes to A1 SNES

    ...

    A21 goes to A22 SNES

    /CE goes to /CE SNES

    /OE to Mad-1 Pin 4

    VCC, WP#ACC, RESET, WE are connected to 3.3V via AMS1117 3.3V

    BYTE goes to GND



    I tried changing MAD-1 Pin 13 and 12 to A23 / A22 like it was in Tales of Phantasia. No success.

    Even tried A22/A23. Same result.

    Game works but fails to read/write saves.

    With an additional 74LS139 the game won't boot.



    I have already successfully made the game using 2x29F033 + 74LS139.



    Anyone know a solution for MX29LV640?
  • Did you put caps on your regulator so the voltage output will be stable?
  • Of course, that's not the problem. Like I said. the game runs properly and can be dumped properly. It just does not read nor write to SRAM.



    EDIT: Sometimes the simpliest solutions are the best.

    I got it working.



    I simply left everything like original and soldered A22 ROM to A23 MaskROM like it was originally in a 1J3M board. Works now.



    Picture:

  • Setting aside the inappropriateness of using 3v parts in a 5v system, you shouldn't need any jumper wires for 64mbit. A23 (mask rom pin35) is the address that banks in the upper 32mbits ~ whether it be by 2 rom parts using a decoder or a single rom toggling that highest address line.



    Yes, I can see you are using a 3v regulator to power the rom, but that doesn't protect the (3v) address or datalines from being hammered by the 5v Snes buss voltages. The 3v part is destined for failure -- at least earlier than what would be its normal life expectancy.



    Just my 2 cents.
  • I'm aware of that but never had problems yet, with either MX29L3211 in a Star Ocean/Super Mario RPG or regular game via adapter + 3.3V.

    Aside from that, it was a test.  



    I have my own SNES PCBs with 5V ICs, so no harm there.  
  • Question - does ExHiROM refer to any game that's 48Mbit or larger? Or just Tales of Phantasia? I keep finding things online that have a separate rewiring for ToP cartridges (pulling up MAD-1 pin 13, etc) so to me that seems to indicate there's different mapping going on there. But this process in this thread just has you use a decoder similar to the standard way of paralleling chips.
  • Yes ExHiROM is a game larger than 48mbit



    Tales of Phantasia maps the SRAM to a different location.



    If you were to build Dragon Quest 3 or Chrono Trigger Crimson Echoes by rewiring the MAD1 the game will load but it will not save correctly.
  • So basically, any game that is 48Mbit or higher is wired normally with a decoder, EXCEPT for Tales of Phantasia which needs modifying of the MAD-1?

    Is there any special reason for ToP being special, or is it just a quirk of the programming?



    Also, I see on jensma.de, there are HiROM variants of Tales of Phantasia - are these made using the normal decoder way, or do they still need the MAD-1 modification? I'm guessing they still need the modification.
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