Buying my First House!!!
OK, well its time to own a house but I wanted to inquire to see what others have done on this life milestone. Me and the wife are looking to spend anywhere from 100-190k$. My bank gave me a preapproval at 2.99% but someone my wife works with gave us 2.94% from a different bank.
Has anyone gone to every bank to see if they can beat the previous quote? There are about 6 or so major banks so I technically could do this more times to lower my rate or is it even worth the time invested??
And from experience what is the optimal down payment? The minimum is 5% but I can do more but I don't want to be house poor.
Has anyone gone to every bank to see if they can beat the previous quote? There are about 6 or so major banks so I technically could do this more times to lower my rate or is it even worth the time invested??
And from experience what is the optimal down payment? The minimum is 5% but I can do more but I don't want to be house poor.
Comments
We refinanced our home for a better percentage during the "Great Recession" in the US, and it was definitely worth it as the amount of money saved over a period of years is greatly diminished.
In short, if you can get a lower interest rate, do so.
Lower is better but house poor would be very detrimental financially, would 5000 be a safe amount or a specific length of time worth of bills?
Originally posted by: Silent Hill
Ok, first off anything below 3% is amazing, take the 2.94% and you're golden. As far as down payment, ideally you would want to put 20% down to avoid paying PMI (Private Mortgage Insurace). If you can't afford 20% up front (which most can't), then pay what you are comfortable with and once you hit 20% equity, the PMI will be removed from your monthly mortgage.
Depends on the type of loan now... I believe FHA (typically 3.5% down) has PMI for the entire life of the loan now. They changed that in 2011 I think?
Probably should take mortgage advice from fellow Canadians since mortgage laws are likely different by country.
Its wise to also put at least 20% down, then you don't have to pay for mortgage insurance. http://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/en/managing-your-money/investing/real-estate/Pages/If-your-down-payment-is-less-than-twenty-percent.aspx#.VD16QigQh0g
And FHA loans that require PMI for the life of the loan are entirely awful. I pray that you have other options besides something like that ... what an awful idea.
I'm not sure how different the mortgage rules and interest rates are when comparing the US and Canada, but I hope my tiny bit of info helps.
Originally posted by: jkenned5
OK, well its time to own a house but I wanted to inquire to see what others have done on this life milestone. Me and the wife are looking to spend anywhere from 100-190k$. My bank gave me a preapproval at 2.99% but someone my wife works with gave us 2.94% from a different bank. Has anyone gone to every bank to see if they can beat the previous quote? There are about 6 or so major banks so I technically could do this more times to lower my rate or is it even worth the time invested?? And from experience what is the optimal down payment? The minimum is 5% but I can do more but I don't want to be house poor.
I run a finance company. I'm NMLS licensed so I can advise you on this.
First off, you want a 30 year fixed rate. Rates are around 4-4.25% depending on credit and financing. What they're quoting you is FHA which you can go up to 96.5% financing which I would recommend if you're using FHA since you're going to have PMI regardless. Do NOT do a loan other than a 30 year fixed because rates are going up. Only make the minimum payments and any extra cash you have outside of emergency savings I would invest and NOT pay down the property. You can get an average rate of return of about 8%. Also, the write off on your loan interest is based upon the lowest amount you've ever owed on the property so you don't ever want to pay off the loan or pay it down, you'll shoot yourself in the foot later on with losing interest write off.
Unless you can put 20% down, max out the loan with FHA because of the PMI. If you or your spouse were in the military you can get a VA loan with no PMI but they charge a non refundable fee of 2% for the first time they do a home loan.
If you have any questions about what to do I'm more than happy to help give you advise. I've been working with retirement planning for over 14 years now.
I hope that helps!
If you can get 3% as a locked in long term rate, remember that you can ALWAYS reinvest the money for a higher rate of return. This is called a "spread" which is how banks make their money.
Originally posted by: Doc Transit
Sometimes mortgage brokering companies can do a little bit better with the rates than the banks but if you go back to your bank with a better rate they would can match it. http://www.truenorthmortgage.ca/?...
Its wise to also put at least 20% down, then you don't have to pay for mortgage insurance. http://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.c...
never heard of mortgage insurance. Would those companies be easier then going bank to bank? If I dont go with the broker are there any penalties?????
Originally posted by: gwyndion
I just realized you're in Canada. I don't know what the mortgage laws or rates are out there. The one advice I would give is to do the maximum term and check into the tax laws on properties.
If you can get 3% as a locked in long term rate, remember that you can ALWAYS reinvest the money for a higher rate of return. This is called a "spread" which is how banks make their money.
I think the period can be 30 years where the first 5 is fixed at my current 2.94% rate, then i believe it becomes variable if I don't re-finance after the term.
I bought 4 years ago when I was 24 and I am over half way to paying off my first house at 28. Granted I've been working an in and out of town oilfield job so that has played a large role so far.
Step 1: If you aren't putting 20% down you shouldn't be buying.
Step 2: Shop around for variable rates, don't go more than 25 yr amortization
Step 3: Ensure you mortgage is structured to accept additional payments (double ups, up to 10% down per year, etc)
Step 4: Cut all ties with humans and focus on career and making money; don't loose focus on fancy things, they will cause more grief than good
Step 5: Pay off house
Step 6: Begin life
Also, I think I need to move to Ontario. $100-$190k in Edmonton won't even buy a shitty apartment. No I am not exaggerating.
But in all seriousness, having a mortgage and paying off a house is no joke. If you are self disciplined enough you'd be amazing how fast along things can move. It's all about chipping away. Holding off to get something at a later date, buying things you "want" used, and of course not going out for meals and drink 5 nights a week.
Originally posted by: jkenned5
Originally posted by: gwyndion
I just realized you're in Canada. I don't know what the mortgage laws or rates are out there. The one advice I would give is to do the maximum term and check into the tax laws on properties.
If you can get 3% as a locked in long term rate, remember that you can ALWAYS reinvest the money for a higher rate of return. This is called a "spread" which is how banks make their money.
I think the period can be 30 years where the first 5 is fixed at my current 2.94% rate, then i believe it becomes variable if I don't re-finance after the term.
That's what is known as a 5 year ARM. You want to lock in a 30 year term where the rate is covered the full term. It will be a higher percent but MUCH better for you overall since rates are going up.
Originally posted by: Wolfman
I have come up with a formula as a young guy paying off a house by myself in Canada.
I bought 4 years ago when I was 24 and I am over half way to paying off my first house at 28. Granted I've been working an in and out of town oilfield job so that has played a large role so far.
Step 1: If you aren't putting 20% down you shouldn't be buying.
Step 2: Shop around for variable rates, don't go more than 25 yr amortization
Step 3: Ensure you mortgage is structured to accept additional payments (double ups, up to 10% down per year, etc)
Step 4: Cut all ties with humans and focus on career and making money; don't loose focus on fancy things, they will cause more grief than good
Step 5: Pay off house
Step 6: Begin life
Also, I think I need to move to Ontario. $100-$190k in Edmonton won't even buy a shitty apartment. No I am not exaggerating.
But in all seriousness, having a mortgage and paying off a house is no joke. If you are self disciplined enough you'd be amazing how fast along things can move. It's all about chipping away. Holding off to get something at a later date, buying things you "want" used, and of course not going out for meals and drink 5 nights a week.
Your advice is not very good. I know it's well intentioned but inaccurate.
"Step 1: If you aren't putting 20% down you shouldn't be buying."
This is just simply false for a multitude of reasons. The reason people put 20% down is because most lenders won't touch them unless they do, otherwise there may be PMI. I don't know the rules in Canada but ultimately you have to look at what the cost of the interest on your payments + taxes together vs. rental expense for the same property to determine if it's better or not for you. You also have to consider the tax write offs as well as the long term home values. Keep in mind that if you rent the amount may go up each year but with a loan, your payments remain the same.
"Step 2: Shop around for variable rates, don't go more than 25 yr amortization"
Quite the opposite. You only want variable rates if you KNOW you are going to refinance in the near future. If rates are going up, which they are, then it's actually a VERY BAD IDEA to get a variable rate. You will be stuck ultimately refinancing for a much higher rate and paying the consequence long term. You always want to get the longest amortization possible. This is both because of tax write off purposes but more importantly the ability to earn interest on the money you would have paid into the house. Now if you're the type of person who will either pay towards the equity or spend the money on something frivilous instead of investing it, then you're better off paying off the house. If you're comparing dollar for dollar investing then you can do dramatically better than paying off the house. Remember, home equity earns 0% interest so it does you no good. Home debt is a type of good debt since you can write off the interest. Remember that.
"Step 3: Ensure you mortgage is structured to accept additional payments (double ups, up to 10% down per year, etc)"
What he is referencing is making sure that there are no pre-payment penalties for early payoff or refinancing. I agree with this. You don't want to be stuck in a loan that you can't get out of later on or pay a penalty if you do.
"Step 4: Cut all ties with humans and focus on career and making money; don't loose focus on fancy things, they will cause more grief than good"
This is more a philosophical argument then a financial opinion
"Step 5: Pay off house"
Don't ever pay off your house. In the US, you will permanently lose your ability for tax write offs. You take on full liability for the property (if it loses value, your assets aren't protected). The equity sits and earns 0% interest when you could be reinvesting for a "spread" (earn 8% investment, cost 4% loan, net 4% gain).
"Step 6: Begin life"
I'd argue that buying the house is when you begin your life.
Wolfman may work a difficult job and choose to take all of his hard earned funds and pay off the property early but that's his decision. Let's do a comparison:
Wolfman
Home purchase 200k (I have no idea what it is but this is a hypothetical scenario) on 10/14/2014
3% apr
8 year home payoff
$2,345.91/mo payment
House paid off on 10/14/2022
no out of pocket expense from 10/14/2022 to 10/14/2044
total assets after 30 years = $200k equity + any home growth (same in both scenarios)
Gwyndion
Home Purchase 200k
4% apr
30 year home payoff
uses the same $2,345.91/mo payment =
$954.83/mo payment - leaves $1,391.08 extra for 8 years or $133,543.68 invested instead of put into house.
house paid off 10/14/2044
lets assume an average growth rate of 8% - his $1,391.08 is now worth $181,234.95 after the 8 year period. The house is currently paid down to about $168,137.57 The house could easily be paid off in full with a left over $13,097.38 at that point if he wanted to.
But let's not stop there. We're going to have the interest on his money now make the 954.83/mo payment for the remaining 22 years. Here is the value of the 181,234.95 AFTER paying the mortgage P+I each year:
Year 9 - $184,275.79
Year 10 - $187,559.89
Year 11 - $191,106.72
Year 12 - $194,937.30
Year 13 - $199,074.32
Year 14 - $203,542.31
Year 15 - $208,367.73
Year 16 - $213,579.19
Year 17 - $219,207.57
Year 18 - $225,286.21
Year 19 - $231,851.15
Year 20 - $238,941.28
Year 21 - $246,598.62
Year 22 - $254,868.55
Year 23 - $263,800.08
Year 24 - $273,446.12
Year 25 - $283,863.85
Year 26 - $295,115.00
Year 27 - $307,266.24
Year 28 - $320,389.58
Year 29 - $334,562.78
Year 30 - $349,869.85
So after 30 years, Woflman has a paid off house equity of 200k.
After 30 years, Gwyndion has a paid off house equity of 200k.
I also had no out of pocket expense from 10/14/2022 to 10/14/2044 just like Wolfman
Gwyndion ALSO has cash of $349,869.85 now providing a monthly income of $2,332.47/mo for the rest of my life along with a paid off house after 30 years.
That's the difference between paying off a house early and leveraging the money elsewhere.
Now, let's say you decided after 8 years to just cover the house payment yourself and leave the $181,234.95 alone for the next 22 years while you CHOSE to pay the $954.83 every month. After the following 22 years, the $181,234.95 turns into $985,291.13!!!! This then provides $6,568.61/mo off of the interest for the rest of your life while still leaving the $985,291.13 principal cash amount aside from the fact that your house is paid off.
This is the difference between saving money and knowing what to do with it.
I've been doing retirement planning for 14 years now and I've been running a retirement planning company for 10 and growing. Be smart with your money and you'll have a phenomenal life. Just understand what you are doing and why. Financial logic and education is far more valuable than mere common sense.
Originally posted by: thesubcon3
Crazy stuff right there. Luckily I'm Military and I've already used and paid my VA loan so I have another $0 down loan in my future!
They changed the rules with VA lending. The first loan requires a non refundable 2% fee. The second loan is a 3.5% fee. This does not go towards closing costs or the loan, it goes to the govenment. The only advantage to this is no PMI but you have to calculate it out to see if it's even worth it. VA loans aren't as good as they used to be.
Your scenerio above is how I am doing my thrift savings plan for the Army and my daughters 529 college savings.
Wish I had that much cash to put into savings each month as in your example! Haha
Originally posted by: jkenned5
Originally posted by: Doc Transit
Sometimes mortgage brokering companies can do a little bit better with the rates than the banks but if you go back to your bank with a better rate they would can match it. http://www.truenorthmortgage.ca/?location=OT
Its wise to also put at least 20% down, then you don't have to pay for mortgage insurance. http://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/en/managing-your-money/in...
never heard of mortgage insurance. Would those companies be easier then going bank to bank? If I dont go with the broker are there any penalties?????
In Ontario, you are required to put down 20% or else you need to pay mortgage insurance which would be atleast a few thousand dollars...
Also, you should look into what extra you can put on top of the mortgage for example. Let' say you have 10,000 sitting in your account and you want to put it against the principle. Can you do that? Are there restrictions to paying it off faster?
Better to put more down and be house poor the first few years you own the house.... Otherwise, wait a year and save up a lot more money. The last thing you want to do is throw your money away by paying more interest. The more you put down, the less interest you will pay. Never rush into buying a place.
Get that home inspected.... which will cost $400-500 by a good inspector.
Originally posted by: gwyndion
Originally posted by: Wolfman
I have come up with a formula as a young guy paying off a house by myself in Canada.
I bought 4 years ago when I was 24 and I am over half way to paying off my first house at 28. Granted I've been working an in and out of town oilfield job so that has played a large role so far.
Step 1: If you aren't putting 20% down you shouldn't be buying.
Step 2: Shop around for variable rates, don't go more than 25 yr amortization
Step 3: Ensure you mortgage is structured to accept additional payments (double ups, up to 10% down per year, etc)
Step 4: Cut all ties with humans and focus on career and making money; don't loose focus on fancy things, they will cause more grief than good
Step 5: Pay off house
Step 6: Begin life
Also, I think I need to move to Ontario. $100-$190k in Edmonton won't even buy a shitty apartment. No I am not exaggerating.
But in all seriousness, having a mortgage and paying off a house is no joke. If you are self disciplined enough you'd be amazing how fast along things can move. It's all about chipping away. Holding off to get something at a later date, buying things you "want" used, and of course not going out for meals and drink 5 nights a week.
Your advice is not very good. I know it's well intentioned but inaccurate.
"Step 1: If you aren't putting 20% down you shouldn't be buying."
This is just simply false for a multitude of reasons. The reason people put 20% down is because most lenders won't touch them unless they do, otherwise there may be PMI. I don't know the rules in Canada but ultimately you have to look at what the cost of the interest on your payments + taxes together vs. rental expense for the same property to determine if it's better or not for you. You also have to consider the tax write offs as well as the long term home values. Keep in mind that if you rent the amount may go up each year but with a loan, your payments remain the same.
"Step 2: Shop around for variable rates, don't go more than 25 yr amortization"
Quite the opposite. You only want variable rates if you KNOW you are going to refinance in the near future. If rates are going up, which they are, then it's actually a VERY BAD IDEA to get a variable rate. You will be stuck ultimately refinancing for a much higher rate and paying the consequence long term. You always want to get the longest amortization possible. This is both because of tax write off purposes but more importantly the ability to earn interest on the money you would have paid into the house. Now if you're the type of person who will either pay towards the equity or spend the money on something frivilous instead of investing it, then you're better off paying off the house. If you're comparing dollar for dollar investing then you can do dramatically better than paying off the house. Remember, home equity earns 0% interest so it does you no good. Home debt is a type of good debt since you can write off the interest. Remember that.
"Step 3: Ensure you mortgage is structured to accept additional payments (double ups, up to 10% down per year, etc)"
What he is referencing is making sure that there are no pre-payment penalties for early payoff or refinancing. I agree with this. You don't want to be stuck in a loan that you can't get out of later on or pay a penalty if you do.
"Step 4: Cut all ties with humans and focus on career and making money; don't loose focus on fancy things, they will cause more grief than good"
This is more a philosophical argument then a financial opinion
"Step 5: Pay off house"
Don't ever pay off your house. In the US, you will permanently lose your ability for tax write offs. You take on full liability for the property (if it loses value, your assets aren't protected). The equity sits and earns 0% interest when you could be reinvesting for a "spread" (earn 8% investment, cost 4% loan, net 4% gain).
"Step 6: Begin life"
I'd argue that buying the house is when you begin your life.
Wolfman may work a difficult job and choose to take all of his hard earned funds and pay off the property early but that's his decision. Let's do a comparison:
Wolfman
Home purchase 200k (I have no idea what it is but this is a hypothetical scenario) on 10/14/2014
3% apr
8 year home payoff
$2,345.91/mo payment
House paid off on 10/14/2022
no out of pocket expense from 10/14/2022 to 10/14/2044
total assets after 30 years = $200k equity + any home growth (same in both scenarios)
Gwyndion
Home Purchase 200k
4% apr
30 year home payoff
uses the same $2,345.91/mo payment =
$954.83/mo payment - leaves $1,391.08 extra for 8 years or $133,543.68 invested instead of put into house.
house paid off 10/14/2044
lets assume an average growth rate of 8% - his $1,391.08 is now worth $181,234.95 after the 8 year period. The house is currently paid down to about $168,137.57 The house could easily be paid off in full with a left over $13,097.38 at that point if he wanted to.
But let's not stop there. We're going to have the interest on his money now make the 954.83/mo payment for the remaining 22 years. Here is the value of the 181,234.95 AFTER paying the mortgage P+I each year:
Year 9 - $184,275.79
Year 10 - $187,559.89
Year 11 - $191,106.72
Year 12 - $194,937.30
Year 13 - $199,074.32
Year 14 - $203,542.31
Year 15 - $208,367.73
Year 16 - $213,579.19
Year 17 - $219,207.57
Year 18 - $225,286.21
Year 19 - $231,851.15
Year 20 - $238,941.28
Year 21 - $246,598.62
Year 22 - $254,868.55
Year 23 - $263,800.08
Year 24 - $273,446.12
Year 25 - $283,863.85
Year 26 - $295,115.00
Year 27 - $307,266.24
Year 28 - $320,389.58
Year 29 - $334,562.78
Year 30 - $349,869.85
So after 30 years, Woflman has a paid off house equity of 200k.
After 30 years, Gwyndion has a paid off house equity of 200k.
I also had no out of pocket expense from 10/14/2022 to 10/14/2044 just like Wolfman
Gwyndion ALSO has cash of $349,869.85 now providing a monthly income of $2,332.47/mo for the rest of my life along with a paid off house after 30 years.
That's the difference between paying off a house early and leveraging the money elsewhere.
Now, let's say you decided after 8 years to just cover the house payment yourself and leave the $181,234.95 alone for the next 22 years while you CHOSE to pay the $954.83 every month. After the following 22 years, the $181,234.95 turns into $985,291.13!!!! This then provides $6,568.61/mo off of the interest for the rest of your life while still leaving the $985,291.13 principal cash amount aside from the fact that your house is paid off.
This is the difference between saving money and knowing what to do with it.
I've been doing retirement planning for 14 years now and I've been running a retirement planning company for 10 and growing. Be smart with your money and you'll have a phenomenal life. Just understand what you are doing and why. Financial logic and education is far more valuable than mere common sense.
Hey Gwyndion, sorry, much of that was my attempt at some dry humor because I have been "locked down" with my mortgage situation. Obviously much of this is due to my personal financial goals coupled with a high housing market (average property value in Edmonton is about $400,000...)
In Canada if you don't put 20% as a down payment in Canada you are subjected to CMHC fees. This is a percentage of your principal loan that you pay out and never get back. On top of that, the CMHC fee is build into your mortgage so you pay interest on it the entire duration of your mortgage. Lots of people don't necessarily mind paying the CMHC fees, but it's tossing money away, and then continuing to toss more money away for the remaining years of your mortgage.
I think something like 88-90% of the time there is cost savings using a variable rate over the amortization of a mortgage, but obviously at the risk of the rate changing. If you are comfortable with the risk, it is a good risk to take. I'm pretty sure there are solid statistics to confirm this.
However, regarding the paying house off faster vs. longer hypothetical situation I will have to disagree with. I didn't analyze you numbers or anything. Likely this is because property where I live is one of the safest and highest return investments going. Unlike the US, in Canada I do not believe you cannot write off the interest you pay against your mortgage. When I am nearing paying off my house I will start looking at buying another property rather than extra investing.
I'm by no means an expert on the situation, but I do know mortgages differ greatly between the US and Canada. Many practices have been implemented in Canada to offset or attempt to prevent the housing bust that had happened in recent years in the US.
If I remember right I put down 5% on a 300k place and they tacked on about $7500 for the insurance, there is no removing it, it's added in.
It's also far better than throwing away your money in rent if you can do it.
Sometimes a rate might look better at first glance, but if you look at the fees or points, it can end up being a wash, or worse.
You'll need to work up the numbers and look at the total cost of both loans to know which one is actually the better deal.
Also, I STRONGLY agree with Gwyndion's point about seeking a fixed rate loan.
A lot can happen over the next 20 - 30 years, in terms of interest rate fluctuations, and long-term rates are still extremely low (and unlikely to go substantially lower again).
Having a fixed rate will save you a lot of future uncertainty, even if you are paying an apparent premium relative to a variable rate loan.
The only exception would be if the variable rate loan was somehow structured to severely limit possible rate increases and had a well understood cap that you were comfortable with.
Originally posted by: Titanium13
Its called cmhc insurance in Canada and its a percentage of your mortgage... Or a base fee plus a percentage of your mortgage.
If I remember right I put down 5% on a 300k place and they tacked on about $7500 for the insurance, there is no removing it, it's added in.
It's also far better than throwing away your money in rent if you can do it.
do they remove this if you put down 20%? im trying to ave as much as i can, can probably have 25-30% by the time i buy.
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
OP - I would confirm that you are an actual accurate comparison between the two lenders.
Sometimes a rate might look better at first glance, but if you look at the fees or points, it can end up being a wash, or worse.
You'll need to work up the numbers and look at the total cost of both loans to know which one is actually the better deal.
Also, I STRONGLY agree with Gwyndion's point about seeking a fixed rate loan.
A lot can happen over the next 20 - 30 years, in terms of interest rate fluctuations, and long-term rates are still extremely low (and unlikely to go substantially lower again).
Having a fixed rate will save you a lot of future uncertainty, even if you are paying an apparent premium relative to a variable rate loan.
The only exception would be if the variable rate loan was somehow structured to severely limit possible rate increases and had a well understood cap that you were comfortable with.
i have yet to see a fixed rate for the term of the loan, most i see is 5 years then they re-finance or you can switch banks which sometimes offer incentives then also re-finance too for another 5 year term. Need some more canadians to chime in but all this info is very helpful thus far
much appreaciated to all.
Originally posted by: jkenned5
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
OP - I would confirm that you are an actual accurate comparison between the two lenders.
Sometimes a rate might look better at first glance, but if you look at the fees or points, it can end up being a wash, or worse.
You'll need to work up the numbers and look at the total cost of both loans to know which one is actually the better deal.
Also, I STRONGLY agree with Gwyndion's point about seeking a fixed rate loan.
A lot can happen over the next 20 - 30 years, in terms of interest rate fluctuations, and long-term rates are still extremely low (and unlikely to go substantially lower again).
Having a fixed rate will save you a lot of future uncertainty, even if you are paying an apparent premium relative to a variable rate loan.
The only exception would be if the variable rate loan was somehow structured to severely limit possible rate increases and had a well understood cap that you were comfortable with.
i have yet to see a fixed rate for the term of the loan, most i see is 5 years then they re-finance or you can switch banks which sometimes offer incentives then also re-finance too for another 5 year term. Need some more canadians to chime in but all this info is very helpful thus far
much appreaciated to all.
Is that a Canadian (or just a non-USA) thing?
Fixed-30 and Fixed-15 are probably the most common types of mortgage in the USA.
You pay around a 1% premium to get a 30 year fixed versus a 15 year fixed, and you probably pay around a 1% premium to get a long-term fixed rate versus a 5/5 variable rate that reindexes every 5 years in some fashion.
Originally posted by: Titanium13
Its called cmhc insurance in Canada and its a percentage of your mortgage... Or a base fee plus a percentage of your mortgage.
If I remember right I put down 5% on a 300k place and they tacked on about $7500 for the insurance, there is no removing it, it's added in.
It's also far better than throwing away your money in rent if you can do it.
do they remove this if you put down 20%? im trying to ave as much as i can, can probably have 25-30% by the time i buy.
It only gets added to people who put down less than 20%. If you go in with 20% in hand it's not added