Anyone into the Etrian Odyssey series on DS/3DS?
I've known about this series for some time but never thought it would appeal to me. I played the demo for Etrian Odyssey Untold a few months ago and enjoyed it but not enough for me to run out and buy it. Well, I found it for a good price yesterday and decided to just give it a shot and now I can't stop playing it! How are the other games in the series? I know they are all similar in playstyle. Is anyone here a fan of the series?
Comments
I love the genre (in terms of first-person-dungeon-crawl) and loved the DIY in-game mapping mechanic (the convenience of an automap with the classic experience of drawing your own maps).
But the grindy-ness of it was just too much to stick with it.
If they had better balanced the pacing, the series would be much more satisfactory, in my opinion.
Originally posted by: cirellio
I had the exact same experience as arch -- played the first two, got reasonably far in both but eventually grew bored, not because it was boring per se, but because the grind became too much to bear. I'd be willing to try it again though.
The need to grind excessively is boring. It is alright to admit that
The exploration portions of the game were a dream come true.
They were literally everything I wanted from a dungeon crawl experience as a kid.
The need to grind to proceed ruined them, though.
(and the class change mechanic was AWFUL -- it's been a few years, but if I recall correctly, you more-or-less lost all progress and had to regrind the character from nothing)
I believe Untold is a remake of the first one and they're coming out with a remake of the second.
IV was very solid, I forget why I stopped playing it exactly. I think I just wanted something more story driven. I think you can adjust the difficulty in IV as well.
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
Grinding is grinding. I don't feel like it is worse in these games.
I believe Untold is a remake of the first one and they're coming out with a remake of the second.
IV was very solid, I forget why I stopped playing it exactly. I think I just wanted something more story driven. I think you can adjust the difficulty in IV as well.
Compared with what?
You're right that "grinding is grinding", but these games have it in abundance... more that even the Wizardry games, and that is saying something.
I just feel like these games are poorly paced.
Take, for instance, one of my SNES dungeon crawl favorites Arcana.
There are definitely a few spots where you may choose to grind to make a boss easier, or to save up for a special expensive item.
But for most of the game, you can virtually play it straight through if you're careful.
THAT is the definition of good pacing in a dungeon crawl.
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
Grinding is grinding. I don't feel like it is worse in these games.
I believe Untold is a remake of the first one and they're coming out with a remake of the second.
IV was very solid, I forget why I stopped playing it exactly. I think I just wanted something more story driven. I think you can adjust the difficulty in IV as well.
Compared with what?
You're right that "grinding is grinding", but these games have it in abundance... more that even the Wizardry games, and that is saying something.
I'm playing Persona 4 Golden right now and just came off Persona 3 Portable.
I'd say the grinding in those was about the same as in Etrian Odessey IV.
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
Grinding is grinding. I don't feel like it is worse in these games.
I believe Untold is a remake of the first one and they're coming out with a remake of the second.
IV was very solid, I forget why I stopped playing it exactly. I think I just wanted something more story driven. I think you can adjust the difficulty in IV as well.
Compared with what?
You're right that "grinding is grinding", but these games have it in abundance... more that even the Wizardry games, and that is saying something.
I'm playing Persona 4 Golden right now and just came off Persona 3 Portable.
I'd say the grinding in those was about the same as in Etrian Odessey IV.
That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean the Etrian Odyssey games (or Atlus RPGs, in general) aren't serious grind-fests.
They've even come out and said that about their own games.
That for whatever reason the game designers actually ENJOY spending time grinding in classic RPGs, so they intentionally added it to their games.
There is somewhat of a false grinding aspect to all of them. On one hand, the game is hard, and the bosses are very hard, and grinding is an easy way to make at least the enemies on the floor easier. However, the game really revolves around finding materials, which is done by killing monsters on the floors in as many different ways and with as many different types of finishing attacks as possible, and creating new equipment. You get far better stat boosts from equipment than you do leveling, and you'll get burnt out quickly if you just grind and don't focus on getting new materials. You'll also be in a world of hurt later (and aggravated when you have to backtrack) when you're missing materials for creating better weapons and armor.
You also have to really think about which classes of characters you bring into battle and where to place them, and when to use their spells. Figuring out a good mixture of characters that can be successful in a wide array of situations is critical.
Overall, I've played each of them, and I enjoy the characters and story in 3 the most. However, they're all fantastic games.
Just pre ordered the new one, Mystery Dungeon or whatever its called..
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
I'm playing Persona 4 Golden right now and just came off Persona 3 Portable.
I'd say the grinding in those was about the same as in Etrian Odessey IV.
That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean the Etrian Odyssey games (or Atlus RPGs, in general) aren't serious grind-fests.
Earthbound had some grindfest moments too. Most FF games, Kingdom Hearts, Rune Factory, Disgaea, and Bravely Default had a lot of grinding. Eternal Sonata required a lot of grinding.
In fact the only games I can think of where I didn't grind a lot are the Chrono games, Rhapsody (PS1), Luanr, SMRPG, Paper Mario, Grandia 2, and Dragon Quest IX (or at least I can't remember grinding a lot in DQIX).
I think finding RPG's without grindfest moments is harder. Maybe I've just played all the wrong ones though. I have to admit that my experience has been primarily with Square/Enix and Atlus games
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
I think finding RPG's without grindfest moments is harder. Maybe I've just played all the wrong ones though. I have to admit that my experience has been primarily with Square/Enix and Atlus games
I don't disagree with that, at all. I just recall feeling like Atlus leveraged that crutch excessively.
But I'm also in the camp that thinks RPG grinding is a design-flaw, and a properly balanced game shouldn't require it, at all. (for instance, the Gold Box AD&D games have "rich" enough natural fights that grinding is almost non-existent and even random encounters are fairly rare)
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: VenusBananaPeel
I think finding RPG's without grindfest moments is harder. Maybe I've just played all the wrong ones though. I have to admit that my experience has been primarily with Square/Enix and Atlus games
I don't disagree with that, at all. I just recall feeling like Atlus leveraged that crutch excessively.
But I'm also in the camp that thinks RPG grinding is a design-flaw, and a properly balanced game shouldn't require it, at all. (for instance, the Gold Box AD&D games have "rich" enough natural fights that grinding is almost non-existent and even random encounters are fairly rare)
I respectfully, personally, disagree, but I see where you're coming from and I think you have a valid point. I think it kinda breaks down to personal preference. So basically I'm saying that your not wrong but I don't agree with you.
Originally posted by: Philosoraptor
I'm a huge fan of the series.
There is somewhat of a false grinding aspect to all of them. On one hand, the game is hard, and the bosses are very hard, and grinding is an easy way to make at least the enemies on the floor easier. However, the game really revolves around finding materials, which is done by killing monsters on the floors in as many different ways and with as many different types of finishing attacks as possible, and creating new equipment. You get far better stat boosts from equipment than you do leveling, and you'll get burnt out quickly if you just grind and don't focus on getting new materials. You'll also be in a world of hurt later (and aggravated when you have to backtrack) when you're missing materials for creating better weapons and armor.
You also have to really think about which classes of characters you bring into battle and where to place them, and when to use their spells. Figuring out a good mixture of characters that can be successful in a wide array of situations is critical.
Overall, I've played each of them, and I enjoy the characters and story in 3 the most. However, they're all fantastic games.
I forgot about that completely! That's so true!
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
I just feel like these games are poorly paced.
Take, for instance, one of my SNES dungeon crawl favorites Arcana.
There are definitely a few spots where you may choose to grind to make a boss easier, or to save up for a special expensive item.
But for most of the game, you can virtually play it straight through if you're careful.
THAT is the definition of good pacing in a dungeon crawl.
Having played Arcana and all the Etrian Odyssey games, they're structured the same way. With Etrian Odyssey, however, you have to play smarter to avoid grinding. You get diminishing returns for grinding in Etrian Odyssey, but they can be beaten with grinding. However, you can go through them much more quickly by employing the strategy in my previous post (killing monsters in certain amounts of time, or with different elemental strikes, or with certain moves to get materials and to create new weapons and armor). Also, think about the party members you're bringing with you at all times. That's why you can make more than 5, and you're not stuck with the same ones for the entire game.
Etrian Odyssey, however, is much harder than Arcana, and the conditioned response to something being hard in RPGs is to grind. Atlus certainly gives you that option, and you can beat the game that way, but it's certainly not the easiest way, or even the recommended way, if you pay attention to the tutorial and read the manual.
Originally posted by: Philosoraptor
Having played Arcana and all the Etrian Odyssey games, they're structured the same way. With Etrian Odyssey, however, you have to play smarter to avoid grinding. You get diminishing returns for grinding in Etrian Odyssey, but they can be beaten with grinding. However, you can go through them much more quickly by employing the strategy in my previous post (killing monsters in certain amounts of time, or with different elemental strikes, or with certain moves to get materials and to create new weapons and armor). Also, think about the party members you're bringing with you at all times. That's why you can make more than 5, and you're not stuck with the same ones for the entire game.
Etrian Odyssey, however, is much harder than Arcana, and the conditioned response to something being hard in RPGs is to grind. Atlus certainly gives you that option, and you can beat the game that way, but it's certainly not the easiest way, or even the recommended way, if you pay attention to the tutorial and read the manual.
I guess my point is, that to do the "specialty killing" like your'e talking about is STILL "grinding" to get the materials you need to makes special items.
I definitely "got" that aspect of the game, don't get me wrong.
But it still felt like a grind.
(I know we're beating a dead horse at this point -- and it's clear that some of you don't mind, or even like, a "grind" type game mechanic -- I just think when the question comes up about what people think about these games, it is important to mention that grinding features heavily in Atlus games, even if it is "strategic" grinding for special resources like you mention)
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: Philosoraptor
Having played Arcana and all the Etrian Odyssey games, they're structured the same way. With Etrian Odyssey, however, you have to play smarter to avoid grinding. You get diminishing returns for grinding in Etrian Odyssey, but they can be beaten with grinding. However, you can go through them much more quickly by employing the strategy in my previous post (killing monsters in certain amounts of time, or with different elemental strikes, or with certain moves to get materials and to create new weapons and armor). Also, think about the party members you're bringing with you at all times. That's why you can make more than 5, and you're not stuck with the same ones for the entire game.
Etrian Odyssey, however, is much harder than Arcana, and the conditioned response to something being hard in RPGs is to grind. Atlus certainly gives you that option, and you can beat the game that way, but it's certainly not the easiest way, or even the recommended way, if you pay attention to the tutorial and read the manual.
I guess my point is, that to do the "specialty killing" like your'e talking about is STILL "grinding" to get the materials you need to makes special items.
I definitely "got" that aspect of the game, don't get me wrong.
But it still felt like a grind.
(I know we're beating a dead horse at this point -- and it's clear that some of you don't mind, or even like, a "grind" type game mechanic -- I just think when the question comes up about what people think about these games, it is important to mention that grinding features heavily in Atlus games, even if it is "strategic" grinding for special resources like you mention)
I hear ya. It takes a while to try out all the combinations, or get strong enough to execute them, but it also takes just as long to map out the floors. They structured it to where you should be strong enough to beat the boss on the floor by the time you explore the whole thing.
While I still disagree with you about all Atlus RPGs being a grind (Hexyz Force comes to mind as one that isn't really a grind), other Atlus RPGs can get really grind-heavy (like Persona), and you're right to mention that Etrian Odyssey games can be somewhat of a grind at certain times. Like you also said, it's a sliding scale that depends on personal preference, but it's certainly no Tactics Ogre or Disgaea. I don't even find it as bad as most FF games.
Anyway, dead horse beaten!
Originally posted by: Philosoraptor
While I still disagree with you about all Atlus RPGs being a grind (Hexyz Force comes to mind as one that isn't really a grind), other Atlus RPGs can get really grind-heavy (like Persona), and you're right to mention that Etrian Odyssey games can be somewhat of a grind at certain times. Like you also said, it's a sliding scale that depends on personal preference, but it's certainly no Tactics Ogre or Disgaea. I don't even find it as bad as most FF games.
Anyway, dead horse beaten!
I would never deny that the FF games and DW/DQ games were grind-fests.
They absolutely were, in general.
I could tolerate it as a kid, but it just feels like a waste of good gaming time as an adult.
To each his own.