Best way to play retro games?
Hey guys! So before making this post I have did a bit of research, however I'm still unsure what to do.
Recently I have been playing my games on an HD flatscreen, but honestly it looks like crap.
Here is what I'm trying to decide between.
1.) Get some sort of upscaler thing for my HD tv
or
2.) Purchase a CRT television
----
Here's where I need some opinions.
First of all, what would you guys recommend (option 1 or 2)
and of those options, which is a good product/model to purchase?
Personally, I know nothing about these upscalers. I also don't know much about CRT televisions but I found some on my local craigslist,
which of these would be the best purchase in your guys opinion?
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5095736637.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5086250910.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5075321792.html
Thanks so much guys!
Recently I have been playing my games on an HD flatscreen, but honestly it looks like crap.
Here is what I'm trying to decide between.
1.) Get some sort of upscaler thing for my HD tv
or
2.) Purchase a CRT television
----
Here's where I need some opinions.
First of all, what would you guys recommend (option 1 or 2)
and of those options, which is a good product/model to purchase?
Personally, I know nothing about these upscalers. I also don't know much about CRT televisions but I found some on my local craigslist,
which of these would be the best purchase in your guys opinion?
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5095736637.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5086250910.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5075321792.html
Thanks so much guys!
Comments
Playing on a CRT is just the way to go. It's a totally different feel and the games actually look better in my opinion. It's what they were made to be played on and look good on. I perfer CRT's with a bubble shaped screen but of what you linked I would go for the first listing. It's cheaper and it comes with a remote.
This one is a bubble screen I think, right?
http://hartford.craigslist.org/ele/5112172116.html
You can buy 15 CRT tvs before you get to spending 300$, no need to repair a broken one...
True. I just prefer no scanlines and the convenience of having 1 TV for all consoles and not having to constantly be on the lookout for suitable CRT's. Just an option...
You can buy 15 CRT tvs before you get to spending 300$, no need to repair a broken one...
True. I just prefer no scanlines and the convenience of having 1 TV for all consoles and not having to constantly be on the lookout for suitable CRT's. Just an option...
Hmm. So basically the upscaler creates a CRT television out of your LCD, but with the added bonus of no scanlines? How bad are the scanlines btw?
Originally posted by: Linkmon99
Originally posted by: kingjohn3
Originally posted by: LifeGame
You can buy 15 CRT tvs before you get to spending 300$, no need to repair a broken one...
True. I just prefer no scanlines and the convenience of having 1 TV for all consoles and not having to constantly be on the lookout for suitable CRT's. Just an option...
Hmm. So basically the upscaler creates a CRT television out of your LCD, but with the added bonus of no scanlines? How bad are the scanlines btw?
The only possible excuse for disliking scanlines is if you've only ever seen them on LCDs with emulators. Fake scanlines on a modern TV will always look much worse and significantly thicker than on a real CRT. When you are using a SD CRT, the scanlines should be faint and natural enough to not really be noticeable at a casual glance. What defines CRTs is that soft phosphor glow, the very slight softening of the picture, the slightly visible scanlines and near instantaneous response time. None of those are qualities I've ever seen in an HDTV.
Long story short, get a SD CRT for your classic gaming needs. HDTVs are overrated anyway.
You can buy 15 CRT tvs before you get to spending 300$, no need to repair a broken one...
True. I just prefer no scanlines and the convenience of having 1 TV for all consoles and not having to constantly be on the lookout for suitable CRT's. Just an option...
Hmm. So basically the upscaler creates a CRT television out of your LCD, but with the added bonus of no scanlines? How bad are the scanlines btw?
The only possible excuse for disliking scanlines is if you've only ever seen them on LCDs with emulators. Fake scanlines on a modern TV will always look much worse and significantly thicker than on a real CRT. When you are using a SD CRT, the scanlines should be faint and natural enough to not really be noticeable at a casual glance. What defines CRTs is that soft phosphor glow, the very slight softening of the picture, the slightly visible scanlines and near instantaneous response time. None of those are qualities I've ever seen in an HDTV.
Long story short, get a SD CRT for your classic gaming needs. HDTVs are overrated anyway.
Atari <-> Game Cube / PS2 / Xbox era = CRT.
HD consoles (360/PS3/Wii-U & Up) = low latency gaming monitor.
The only odd man out is the Wii with it's analog only 480p widescreen component which needs an HDTV with component hookups for optimal picture. My Wii has been retired since I kept my Game Cube and have successfully transferred all my software to Wii-U.
I have never tried the fancy expensive upscalers designed to work with 240p video sources. I am sure they yield superior picture on HDTVs especially with RGB or Svideo as opposed to composite/RF, but I would imagine any upscaler to add a small amount of lag to the chain in addition to the HDTV output. For lag free performance and retro feel, find a used CRT if at all possible. Also this is still the only way to enjoy lightgun games.
HDTVs are hit and miss in the latency/overscan department, as well they will attempt to deinterlace signals from 240p analog consoles as 480i. This adds an additional 16ms or more of lag and can cause ugly artifacts onscreen, especially venetian blinds whenever there is sprite flicker. Since manufacturers don't always publish latency statistics, it is best to do your research before buying a set or stick with 1080p HDMI monitors for HD systems, even if the screen size is smaller. A PC gaming monitor is almost guaranteed to have ultra low latency and zero overscan.
Stereo amps with boxed speakers are excellent sound performance for all game systems, new or retro. A good 3 piece stereo with box speakers will do and these are available cheap at thrift shops. Flat panel TVs/monitors are shit for audio. You may also want an HDMI splitter with analog out audio for the HD systems as some monitors/TVs don't support analog audio pass through any more. http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=5557
Route the audio from the HDMI switch to the same AV selector used to select analog game systems. The one I use is Optimal 8 Way composite: http://www.amazon.com/Optimal-Shop-Composite-Switcher-Selector/dp/B00R9MUJHQ/
If you can't find an 8-switch AV selector but have miscellaneous switches lying around, you can also daisy chain two 4-input selectors together to form a 7 input switch. If at all possible, use the A/V outputs on classic consoles that support them to connect to your 8-port switch hub. From there you can run the composite to an RF modulator (if your CRT doesn't support composite) or directly to the CRT if it does. I have found composite and even in some cases RF can supply an excellent picture to your CRT screen. Route the analog audio to the stereo system for hifi stereo sound in consoles that support it.
Some older consoles such as Atari do not support composite or S-Video. These can be modded or run stock RF from the RCA cable directly to the TV using an RCA/Coax adapter. If using an RF modulator, plug the vintage non-AV console directly into the Input jack. You won't get the benefit of hifi audio but it will be playable through the TV speaker.
I recommend avoiding manual or auto switches if possible as these can lead to signal degradation. Additionally it is beneficial to replace the RCA completely with RG6 coax. RadioShack and likewise sell adapters that fit the RCA RF plugs on the back or internals of consoles to RG6 coax. Direct connection will almost always yield a superior RF picture compared to auto or manual switches.
I hope this helps.
TL;DR If you can deal with having two displays, a CRT TV and HDMI monitor with appropriate hookups will make the perfect setup for both modern and retro consoles.
Get a good HD LED TV and a switch box that can accomodate all the consoles.
Use composite or s-video to the switcher (finding scart can be a pain and complicates matters.)
Hook the switcher up to a Framemeister and have it output 1080p
You are done. The days of rescuing old CRT dinosaurs are over. People like them because they smooth over things and look washed out but once you see the picture cleaned up you'll never look back.
The best way to play retro games is simple.
Get a good HD LED TV and a switch box that can accomodate all the consoles.
Use composite or s-video to the switcher (finding scart can be a pain and complicates matters.)
Hook the switcher up to a Framemeister and have it output 1080p
You are done. The days of rescuing old CRT dinosaurs are over. People like them because they smooth over things and look washed out but once you see the picture cleaned up you'll never look back.
But lightguns...
What's the best upscaler to pick up? Been wondering myself.
The Framemeister, bar none. It's just an all-around excellent product, with tons of customization options.
Definitely in the pricey end, but it's the best by a longshot. Also it's specifically tailored for game use, and also helps reduce lag quite significantly.
Sounds like I work for the guys who made it here, but it's really just that good. ^^
What's the best upscaler to pick up? Been wondering myself.
The Framemeister, bar none. It's just an all-around excellent product, with tons of customization options.
Definitely in the pricey end, but it's the best by a longshot. Also it's specifically tailored for game use, and also helps reduce lag quite significantly.
Sounds like I work for the guys who made it here, but it's really just that good. ^^
I've heard people mention the Framemeister. Did it come out in America for was it only in Japan? Seems whenever I've seen em they're always a Japanese version.
Easy as pie: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER#Changing_the_Menu_Language
The best way to play retro games is simple.
Get a good HD LED TV and a switch box that can accomodate all the consoles.
Use composite or s-video to the switcher (finding scart can be a pain and complicates matters.)
Hook the switcher up to a Framemeister and have it output 1080p
You are done. The days of rescuing old CRT dinosaurs are over. People like them because they smooth over things and look washed out but once you see the picture cleaned up you'll never look back.
Completely disagree if you have a quality CRT.
I use a Commodore 64 monitor Model 1702, one of the best CRT monitor's you can buy, and what I would recommend. It's lightweight, has handles for easy transportation, and is flat out gorgeous with excellent vibrant colors, not to mention Hundreds cheaper than a Framemeister set up that kills light guns.
I own a Retron 5(also way cheaper than the Framemeister route if you don't mind the rom dump/emulation way) as well and also love the look of HD "cleaned up " pixels, but scanlines for CRTs were taken into consideration when these games were made, the scanlines add to the art design/blending of colors, and as an artist and game dev myself, I think their addition is invaluable.
So I rock a 1702 monitor for my original hardware when I want to play on vintage game hardware with vintage games, on a vintage CRT, when I want to play my vintage games in HD I use a Retron 5.
16 m/s response time? Oh yeah. Only downside is no scan lines. But for anything that can be had in S-Video, it looks sooo good.
For me, I prefer my CRT.
This isn't a CRT, is it?
Originally posted by: Linkmon99
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-n4nZ...
This isn't a CRT, is it?
Nope. Rear Projection. Bulky HDTVs from before we had flat panels. Still not zapper compatible.
Okay what do you guys think of a 4K hd tv with an upscaler built in. Do you think it makes the games look better, or crappier?
Plausible. I think 4k would be sufficient resolution to emulate the CRT mask, ie red/green/blue dots or rectangles. Only downside; this will make the display one third as bright. Also bowing the picture to emulate a convex CRT mask will look really strange on those concave UHDTVs.
If they made a convex screen instead of concave (and I had ass-loads of money), I would buy it!
But I seriously get the feeling those unweildly giant concave screens will be looked back on the same awkwardness those unweildy rear projection sets (most of which did not support HDCP) were.
Okay what do you guys think of a 4K hd tv with an upscaler built in. Do you think it makes the games look better, or crappier?
Plausible. I think 4k would be sufficient resolution to emulate the CRT mask, ie red/green/blue dots or rectangles. Only downside; this will make the display one third as bright. Also bowing the picture to emulate a convex CRT mask will look really strange on those concave UHDTVs.
If they made a convex screen instead of concave (and I had ass-loads of money), I would buy it!
But I seriously get the feeling those unweildly giant concave screens will be looked back on the same awkwardness those unweildy rear projection sets (most of which did not support HDCP) were.
So basically the pixels will look high quality, but the color will be darker and the curved screen might distort the image? Makes sense.
Do you think you can help me find a good CRT to pick up then? I heard the 32" inch trinitron's are the best, but I'm not sure..
Here's my area's craigslist: http://hartford.craigslist.org/search/sss?sort=rel&query=trinitron