let's just say their policies leave something to be desired ... anyway just keep it factual and to the point of why different things they are doing are bad... ask for upper management if you need to ... get your voices heard or they won't change
let's just say 2 perfectly good items were returned due to NOT AS DESCRIBED ... for one a gamecube game the buyer complained that it would not play on the wii without a controller - they win the claim ... another time a more expensive accessory was sold and buyer claimed it did not work (when it did) - had to eat about $15 in shipping/insurance fees on that one
i'm not against paypal i just thing they have horrible policies and in order for anything like that to change more than one person has to complain ... is all i'm getting at
Yeah I agree that paypal is flawed, but that is because it is a flawed system.
For example, if a buyer files an item not received complaint against the seller and the seller is unable to provide a tracking number, the buyer will always win. Unfortunately, there are people who probably abuse this, but what is the alternative? To side with the seller based on his "word"? Nah, you need concrete proof for disputes, so paypal is limited by this...
How would you improve their policies? If the policies changed to prevent what you describe...why would buyers be willing to use the service?
because buyers would still want to use credit cards over the net and sellers would require it
Paypal just used to be a service to allow individuals to pay each other using credit cards, then when ebay bought them, it became a tool to police ebay however they wanted.
^ Yeah, but not from joe blow individual... that's where paypal came in: so I could buy from little jane doe in arkansas without having to send a money order (or cash) through the mail...
There is no way to possibly make it perfectly balanced, unless paypal hired a crack team to visit everyones house that made a claim, and personally inspect items. These people would have to be miracle workers that were experts in every field, and have the proper equipment to test every device. So whats the logical thing to do? Give the buyer the benifit of the doubt. The buyer is not in business selling merchandise. If he gets screwed by the seller, thats it, its over, he was screwed.. payed money and got nothing. If you are in the business of selling, then you have to be prepared for this type of thing.. it happens in any retail business. Your gonna get ripped off no matter how good your policies are. There are plenty more ways to burn you, besides making bogus claims on paypal. If buyers dont feel confident, then paypal will shut down. Most major businesses that keep track of their earnings, and set quarterly goals, factor in the average theyll loose do to scams and theft. Its part of the game. You always have the option to not agree, and try to do business outside of paypal, but I think most people find its far better to weather the small setbacks from evil buyers.
Even above mentioned miracle workers would be decieved by duplicate items. There is no way to stop scammers.
Logic dictates having a greater number of buyers in a market then sellers is better for you. Its not gonna happen if you tip the policies twords the sellers instead of the buyers.
There is no way to possibly make it perfectly balanced, unless paypal hired a crack team to visit everyones house that made a claim, and personally inspect items. These people would have to be miracle workers that were experts in every field, and have the proper equipment to test every device.
So instead what they do now is absolutely zero investigation. No evidence matters, there is just a simple formula for who wins. They do not look at emails, shipping weights, whether the buyer entered their address wrong, or even postal receipts. It would take a small effort per case to actually look into it, and might reduce the number of disputes. CSI isn't needed, just CS (common sense).
Unfortunately I doubt Google will ever make Checkout anything useful. Like most of their products it will forever remain in beta because doing something new is better than making something good.
Yeah, they could spend more resources to do that, but where do you think they will get the money? It will come out of your pocket in higher fees. And what would it accomplish for us? Absolutely nothing. It will lower the scams for the first month, then the scammers will simply work around it, and go back to their dirty deeds.
True, but people don't want to send cash because they don't feel that it's safe.
The same would be the case with Paypal if it didn't have adequate buyer protections.
It would just be like in the 90's where people only bought from actual business online.
Of course that's extreme and ridiculous. A genuine alternative would show up first.
Or Google would get off their ass and promote Google Checkout.
It worked just fine. that's when feedback mattered. there was none of this" I'll take a chance and just use paypal to protect myself if the guy really is a scammer" you just didn't buy from him and the bad seller was run out of buisness.
Google checkout is working fine, but ebay won't allow it as a payment option on ebay.
and google checkout wouldn't take over if paypal reverted to just being a service provider, sellers would pick the option that protected them the best whoever that would be.
plenty of people used paypal back before the "buyer's never wrong days" You as a buyer assumed the risk of choosing to deal with certain people.
If ebay would just police it's buyer's and sellers better, none of this crap would be needed. Blocking bidders, and choosing not to buy from suspect sellers is a good pratice in personal responibility.
If paypal is worried about being "on the line" for credit card chargebacks, why not require a paypal credit card to be used with paypal where they can set the rules. the only reason they side with the buyer all the time is because, the buyer can always go over paypal's head and request a refund from their CC company and leave the balance on Paypal.
Really Paypal is nothing more than a guy with a CC card swiper who pays cash to the seller. they're not protecting anyone but themselves.
You don't know a person is a bad seller until they screw somebody.
Feedback doesn't weed out first-time scammers. A patient person can build up loads of good feedback on small items waiting for a few big scores. The old system had no protection against this, beyond the obvious legal ramifications if the people are tracked and caught.
Yeah, they could spend more resources to do that, but where do you think they will get the money? It will come out of your pocket in higher fees.
It already comes out of my pocket in lost disputes when the buyer confirms they received it, or didn't bother to wait for customs. Recently it has been a problem with buyers claiming unauthorized account access, even though that is very easily confirmed by looking at the shipping address vs billing address.
Originally posted by: udisi
Google checkout is working fine, but ebay won't allow it as a payment option on ebay.
The problem I have as a seller is no integration with shipping methods and (last time I checked) no payments without logging in. Multiorder shipping through PayPal is very well done while Checkout has nothing.
Your right it already comes out of your pocket. But would you rather have it come out of your pocket every once in a while, at no ones fault except the dishonest person, who will eventually have his account closed due to abusing the system. Or would you rather have it constantly being taken out of your pocket on every sale for the rest of your businesses existance, loosing part of your customer base because they no longer feel comfortable with paypal, and still loosing the same amount from scammers who simply found another way around the system.
Id say its more profitable to keep things the way they are, take a hit every now and then, but keep a huge customer base. Thats only my opinion of course.
The hits you take are a cost of doing business. Just the same as if you set up at a flea market and someone stole 5 games from you. Protect yourself stay away from risky transactions as best as you can. And eat the loss when it happens
Comments
How would you improve their policies? If the policies changed to prevent what you describe...why would buyers be willing to use the service?
For example, if a buyer files an item not received complaint against the seller and the seller is unable to provide a tracking number, the buyer will always win. Unfortunately, there are people who probably abuse this, but what is the alternative? To side with the seller based on his "word"? Nah, you need concrete proof for disputes, so paypal is limited by this...
Unfortunately those are costs of doing business.
How would you improve their policies? If the policies changed to prevent what you describe...why would buyers be willing to use the service?
because buyers would still want to use credit cards over the net and sellers would require it
Paypal just used to be a service to allow individuals to pay each other using credit cards, then when ebay bought them, it became a tool to police ebay however they wanted.
It has been possible to buy stuff online with a credit card long before Paypal became the standard.
The same would be the case with Paypal if it didn't have adequate buyer protections.
It would just be like in the 90's where people only bought from actual business online.
Of course that's extreme and ridiculous. A genuine alternative would show up first.
Or Google would get off their ass and promote Google Checkout.
Even above mentioned miracle workers would be decieved by duplicate items. There is no way to stop scammers.
Logic dictates having a greater number of buyers in a market then sellers is better for you. Its not gonna happen if you tip the policies twords the sellers instead of the buyers.
There is no way to possibly make it perfectly balanced, unless paypal hired a crack team to visit everyones house that made a claim, and personally inspect items. These people would have to be miracle workers that were experts in every field, and have the proper equipment to test every device.
True, but people don't want to send cash because they don't feel that it's safe.
The same would be the case with Paypal if it didn't have adequate buyer protections.
It would just be like in the 90's where people only bought from actual business online.
Of course that's extreme and ridiculous. A genuine alternative would show up first.
Or Google would get off their ass and promote Google Checkout.
It worked just fine. that's when feedback mattered. there was none of this" I'll take a chance and just use paypal to protect myself if the guy really is a scammer" you just didn't buy from him and the bad seller was run out of buisness.
Google checkout is working fine, but ebay won't allow it as a payment option on ebay.
and google checkout wouldn't take over if paypal reverted to just being a service provider, sellers would pick the option that protected them the best whoever that would be.
plenty of people used paypal back before the "buyer's never wrong days" You as a buyer assumed the risk of choosing to deal with certain people.
If ebay would just police it's buyer's and sellers better, none of this crap would be needed. Blocking bidders, and choosing not to buy from suspect sellers is a good pratice in personal responibility.
If paypal is worried about being "on the line" for credit card chargebacks, why not require a paypal credit card to be used with paypal where they can set the rules. the only reason they side with the buyer all the time is because, the buyer can always go over paypal's head and request a refund from their CC company and leave the balance on Paypal.
Really Paypal is nothing more than a guy with a CC card swiper who pays cash to the seller. they're not protecting anyone but themselves.
Feedback doesn't weed out first-time scammers. A patient person can build up loads of good feedback on small items waiting for a few big scores. The old system had no protection against this, beyond the obvious legal ramifications if the people are tracked and caught.
Yeah, they could spend more resources to do that, but where do you think they will get the money? It will come out of your pocket in higher fees.
It already comes out of my pocket in lost disputes when the buyer confirms they received it, or didn't bother to wait for customs. Recently it has been a problem with buyers claiming unauthorized account access, even though that is very easily confirmed by looking at the shipping address vs billing address.
Google checkout is working fine, but ebay won't allow it as a payment option on ebay.
Id say its more profitable to keep things the way they are, take a hit every now and then, but keep a huge customer base. Thats only my opinion of course.