Framemeister Discussion
Hey guys
I have been trying to figure out what i want to do for months now regarding how to hook stuff up. Was hoping to get some opinions of how you guys hook your stuff up, and opinions on things such as the framemeister.
My options
1. Use an old CRT TV and call it a day (Heavy, huge, want one tv)
or
2. try to find some way to make games look and play great on an HDTV(if thats even possible)
As of now i have a nice 27 inch WEGA with S video and composite, so everything looks and plays fantastic.
But i have to admit the TV is an eye sore and i would love to have one central TV for everything if possible. Also this TV is definitely in it's senior stage at this point.
I am looking into a framemeister now.
So
How do you guys hook your mistresses up????
And what do you guys think about the framemeister for playing old systems on an HDTV.
I have been trying to figure out what i want to do for months now regarding how to hook stuff up. Was hoping to get some opinions of how you guys hook your stuff up, and opinions on things such as the framemeister.
My options
1. Use an old CRT TV and call it a day (Heavy, huge, want one tv)
or
2. try to find some way to make games look and play great on an HDTV(if thats even possible)
As of now i have a nice 27 inch WEGA with S video and composite, so everything looks and plays fantastic.
But i have to admit the TV is an eye sore and i would love to have one central TV for everything if possible. Also this TV is definitely in it's senior stage at this point.
I am looking into a framemeister now.
So
How do you guys hook your mistresses up????
And what do you guys think about the framemeister for playing old systems on an HDTV.
Comments
RGB - Scart to PVM
Framemeister on a modern HDTV. Can be a hassle to set up, but works like a charm.
Is there input lag? I was thinking of getting one but i hear conflicting things.
If it plays snes flawlessly with no input lag im sold.
Framemeister on a modern HDTV. Can be a hassle to set up, but works like a charm.
Is there input lag? I was thinking of getting one but i hear conflicting things. If it plays snes flawlessly with no input lag im sold.
If you pick up the latest version (XRGB-3), and use a picture setting called B1, the lag will be at 2ms, which I think is excellent even for speedrunning. It wouldn't be noticeable without running a test, so have at it. It's quite pricy, but worth it to overstep the hassle of dealing with CRTs in my opinion.
They're beautiful screens, but not a practical longterm solution.
Framemeister on a modern HDTV. Can be a hassle to set up, but works like a charm.
Is there input lag? I was thinking of getting one but i hear conflicting things. If it plays snes flawlessly with no input lag im sold.
If you pick up the latest version (XRGB-3), and use a picture setting called B1, the lag will be at 2ms, which I think is excellent even for speedrunning. It wouldn't be noticeable without running a test, so have at it. It's quite pricy, but worth it to overstep the hassle of dealing with CRTs in my opinion.
They're beautiful screens, but not a practical longterm solution.
Awesome and what do you connect your systems to the frameister with?? And what to your tv, hdmi??
The xrgb 3 mini right? I might just buy it.
Awesome and what do you connect your systems to the frameister with?? And what to your tv, hdmi?? The xrgb 3 mini right? I might just buy it.
Composite or RGB-Scart from systems (where applicable) to the xrgb3 mini, then that feeds it via hdmi to the tv
I recommend watching this, a superb tutorial:
On a side note, they're worth a subscribe. All their videos are really well done.
But the point is, it looked/played amazing for older consoles AND my PS3. If you can track one down for cheap (pretty damn easy if you live in a populated area *cough* BOSTON), I'd say that's the best way to go.
The only thing we'd like to change is to get a PVM of decent size, bu that's not an easy task.
TV stock speakers are shit.
Just odd that everyone focuses on picture exclusively when the topic gets brought up and never mentions anything audio related... in my experience the sound is waaaaay more important than the picture quality especially with old games.
We use a decent sound bar. We're not really audiophiles, so it works for us. Video will always be king.
I would have to strongly disagree nothing will get you more engaged in a game then when you have a good sound system going and cranked up.....
Fire up the ol FFVI and let that intro play out and it becomes a complete different experience.
We use a decent sound bar. We're not really audiophiles, so it works for us. Video will always be king.
I would have to strongly disagree nothing will get you more engaged in a game then when you have a good sound system going and cranked up.....
Fire up the ol FFVI and let that intro play out and it becomes a complete different experience.
Agreed, and FFVI is a great example to use. Even the sound effects used for spells become as massive as the game itself with the right audio setup.
Stock speakers on most TVs have tinny highs and murky (if any) lows. I've been keeping an eye out at local thrift stores for THE reciever (I'll know it when I see it) and big tower speakers are practically given away on CL here. If I play my cards right, I'll have a pretty dope 80s/90s style home theater for less than $20.
We use a decent sound bar. We're not really audiophiles, so it works for us. Video will always be king.
I would have to strongly disagree nothing will get you more engaged in a game then when you have a good sound system going and cranked up.....
Fire up the ol FFVI and let that intro play out and it becomes a complete different experience.
Agreed, and FFVI is a great example to use. Even the sound effects used for spells become as massive as the game itself with the right audio setup.
Stock speakers on most TVs have tinny highs and murky (if any) lows. I've been keeping an eye out at local thrift stores for THE reciever (I'll know it when I see it) and big tower speakers are practically given away on CL here. If I play my cards right, I'll have a pretty dope 80s/90s style home theater for less than $20.
Fuckin right brother! It really does make a massive difference and it pulls you into the game.
I use an old 90s Kenwood system and it sounds amazing.... I would think as long you get anything pre-digital you would be okay as long as it is a good brand.
Not to mention you can get an EQ to perfect the room, being able to adjust highs and lows to go with the system is amazing....For example when I play my Genesis I like to put up the bass a little bit more as it has a really low bass sound.
I've heard bad ass sound systems. Honestly, I'm just not an audiophile and neither is my husband. We've got a good sound bar and that's enough for us. Of course TV speakers sound like crap, but we aren't using those.
Me to.. all of those ones that people have in their cars.....I am not into the cranked bass either believe me but when applied at the right level it can really bring out some good sound.
You would not want a lot of bass in general for old games.
It is just the same logic that is used for using an old CRT for old systems, that is what the console was designed around.... same goes for audio.
Agreed, and FFVI is a great example to use. Even the sound effects used for spells become as massive as the game itself with the right audio setup.
Stock speakers on most TVs have tinny highs and murky (if any) lows. I've been keeping an eye out at local thrift stores for THE reciever (I'll know it when I see it) and big tower speakers are practically given away on CL here. If I play my cards right, I'll have a pretty dope 80s/90s style home theater for less than $20.
Fuckin right brother! It really does make a massive difference and it pulls you into the game.
I use an old 90s Kenwood system and it sounds amazing.... I would think as long you get anything pre-digital you would be okay as long as it is a good brand.
Not to mention you can get an EQ to perfect the room, being able to adjust highs and lows to go with the system is amazing....For example when I play my Genesis I like to put up the bass a little bit more as it has a really low bass sound.
Oh man... I haven't heard Sonic 2 on a decent system in YEARS. The music from Chemical Plant Zone is so jumpin. And low end response is so important to really get the full effect of Gunstar Heroes. What good are all the on-screen explosions if they don't thump yer nuts a little? Some of the bigger bosses can really stomp too. Norio Hanzawa could make the Genesis sing like no one else.
I think I might lowball on these JVC towers on my local Craigslist that have been bumped every few days for a month now. They're asking $20 for the pair. They're pretty massive, should do the trick, they look like they're in really nice shape too. 1" tweeter, 5" mid, 12" woofer and 12" passive radiator per cab, which might be neat, all my speakers have always had ported woofers.
Video really is just one side of the coin, guys. Albeit, a VERY important one. You can play video games without sound, I doubt you could play them blind, but you need great sound to go with that great video. Get the full effect!!
Originally posted by: ToxieRules
Originally posted by: LAMRN15
I've heard bad ass sound systems. Honestly, I'm just not an audiophile and neither is my husband. We've got a good sound bar and that's enough for us. Of course TV speakers sound like crap, but we aren't using those.
Me to.. all of those ones that people have in their cars.....I am not into the cranked bass either believe me but when applied at the right level it can really bring out some good sound.
You would not want a lot of bass in general for old games.
It is just the same logic that is used for using an old CRT for old systems, that is what the console was designed around.... same goes for audio.
I wasn't talking about in cars or bass.
I mean, some folks just are huge audiophiles. It's no big deal. Different strokes.
My setup is centered around two TVs, a 32" CRT and a 55" LCD projection. The LCD projection is a wide screen, but not super thin, it's thicker than most plasmas.
Quick side story cause it wouldn't be an Ozzy post without fuckin side stories, now would it. I got that TV at good will for $60 or $80, same day Half Priced books had its clearance sale at the fairground. Between HPB and Goodwill, not only did I get this:
I got these, nothing was over $3 in this pile, most was $1
Anyways back to my setup.
When I was planning it, I couldn't decide if I wanted to mod all consoles, and go an RGB\Framemister route. See, I dislike hacking up consoles, and I REALLY dislike making any change that can't be undone, like holes and switches in cases of collectors items. I decided to compromise, if you look at the TV, I'm playing Zelda on it, but there's no cart in my nes (It's next to the snes, no cover. It's my test nes, easy to clean the pins in it) Behind the shelves I have a PC running emulators. The PC has HDMI out and I have a VGA -> composite converter too, plus USB controller adapters. So I can play any game I want, even if I don't own it, on the CRT with the colors and overscan set to match the nes console pretty close, or I could play it on the big TV via HDMI for the best picture. Another issue I have with modding consoles, the point of the console isn't to play the game, but the whole experience. We didn't have RGB on most of this stuff then, so why have the authentic experiance ruined by "improved" graphics. My setup, while it has some disadvantages, is a good compromise.
The main video switcher I have is an Extron, it has 16 inputs, and 8 outputs, and is a full matrix. Full matrix means you can take the input #1, and send it to outputs #1 and #2, mirroring the display, then send input #2 to output 3. Then with a few clicks, change it so input #3 is now on output #2. You can send any system to any TV, meaning it can scale pretty good. The pictures below show the current, unhooked state. I need to do a lot of work on this stuff, but I have a shit tone of other home projects that need worked first.
(Ignore the paint, I'm going to have a partision blocking the red and white sides)
The device is a beast in size though. They make smaller ones if you like. the back side is all BNC connectors, these are twist lock connectors, you need a bunch of adapters to use RCA plugs:
This extron is a beast. The picture looks BETTER through it then plugged directly in for some systems, less noise. It also can handle componet, composite, S-video, and all forms of RGB. The only thing it can't do is RF. The problem though is each input has 5 ports, but only the first 3 ports are "universal", the other two are for sync only. So it's fine for composite, but Svideo needs two ports for video, composite three, and then I run out of audio. That's because I bought the wrong model, and need one with audio someday. The audio connectors on these suck, wiggy (Rosecoloredgaming) is also a fan of these, he modded his system and has pics of it. His now has RCA plugs in it.
Even though I have 16 inputs, that's not even close to the amount I need, so input 15 runs to two daisy-chained manual switchers. I put lesser used consoles on these switches, and duplicate consoles, for example, I have two PSXs with link cables. I send one to one TV, and the other to the other TV.
For RF-only systems, I kept them RF, again, it's how they were played, so keep it real. The RF plugs run into a manual RF switcher, the Extron can't handle RF for some reason, and then goes to a VCR. The VCR spits out the component output to one of the manual switches hooked to the extron, so I can only play one RF-based system at a time unless I rewire something.
Besides the two putputs to the TV, I have one output to the stereo system, got this for $10
While it looks like it's a very rare Non3O it's actually a Denon. This way I can send audio from any device to the stereo AND TVs. This lets me load up so music on say, xbox, then play nes on one TV, snes on the other.
Another trick is this little toy:
It has 4 video outputs running to its inputs, and one output running back to the switching fabric. This is a CCTV video processor, it splits the screen into 4 diffrent sections.
I forget the math, but I was thinking it makes each section of my 55" into a 22" TV, depending on if I stretch the video or leave it 4:3. While it's great for multi-player and parties, it has one killer-app setup.
Use 5 gamecubes, one as the "master", and the other 4 use GBA players to emulate GBA controllers, you can then pipe the GBA video back to the 55" TV. So something like the pac-man vs game, where one player plays as pac-man on screen, and then you have the other people playing on the big screen as the ghosts.
...
Did I over do it again?
I've heard bad ass sound systems. Honestly, I'm just not an audiophile and neither is my husband. We've got a good sound bar and that's enough for us. Of course TV speakers sound like crap, but we aren't using those.
Me to.. all of those ones that people have in their cars.....I am not into the cranked bass either believe me but when applied at the right level it can really bring out some good sound.
You would not want a lot of bass in general for old games.
It is just the same logic that is used for using an old CRT for old systems, that is what the console was designed around.... same goes for audio.
I wasn't talking about in cars or bass.
I mean, some folks just are huge audiophiles. It's no big deal. Different strokes.
That is my mistake I miss-read as "bad bass sound systems" haha!!
And yes to each his or her own, but you are still missing out.
I've had a few posts on my setup, but nothing all together. I need to finish it so I can write it up and put on my blog something. Heck, I should update my blog sometime, it's like 5 years out of date.
My setup is centered around two TVs, a 32" CRT and a 55" LCD projection. The LCD projection is a wide screen, but not super thin, it's thicker than most plasmas.
Quick side story cause it wouldn't be an Ozzy post without fuckin side stories, now would it. I got that TV at good will for $60 or $80, same day Half Priced books had its clearance sale at the fairground. Between HPB and Goodwill, not only did I get this:
I got these, nothing was over $3 in this pile, most was $1
Anyways back to my setup.
When I was planning it, I couldn't decide if I wanted to mod all consoles, and go an RGB\Framemister route. See, I dislike hacking up consoles, and I REALLY dislike making any change that can't be undone, like holes and switches in cases of collectors items. I decided to compromise, if you look at the TV, I'm playing Zelda on it, but there's no cart in my nes (It's next to the snes, no cover. It's my test nes, easy to clean the pins in it) Behind the shelves I have a PC running emulators. The PC has HDMI out and I have a VGA -> composite converter too, plus USB controller adapters. So I can play any game I want, even if I don't own it, on the CRT with the colors and overscan set to match the nes console pretty close, or I could play it on the big TV via HDMI for the best picture. Another issue I have with modding consoles, the point of the console isn't to play the game, but the whole experience. We didn't have RGB on most of this stuff then, so why have the authentic experiance ruined by "improved" graphics. My setup, while it has some disadvantages, is a good compromise.
The main video switcher I have is an Extron, it has 16 inputs, and 8 outputs, and is a full matrix. Full matrix means you can take the input #1, and send it to outputs #1 and #2, mirroring the display, then send input #2 to output 3. Then with a few clicks, change it so input #3 is now on output #2. You can send any system to any TV, meaning it can scale pretty good. The pictures below show the current, unhooked state. I need to do a lot of work on this stuff, but I have a shit tone of other home projects that need worked first.
(Ignore the paint, I'm going to have a partision blocking the red and white sides)
The device is a beast in size though. They make smaller ones if you like. the back side is all BNC connectors, these are twist lock connectors, you need a bunch of adapters to use RCA plugs:
This extron is a beast. The picture looks BETTER through it then plugged directly in for some systems, less noise. It also can handle componet, composite, S-video, and all forms of RGB. The only thing it can't do is RF. The problem though is each input has 5 ports, but only the first 3 ports are "universal", the other two are for sync only. So it's fine for composite, but Svideo needs two ports for video, composite three, and then I run out of audio. That's because I bought the wrong model, and need one with audio someday. The audio connectors on these suck, wiggy (Rosecoloredgaming) is also a fan of these, he modded his system and has pics of it. His now has RCA plugs in it.
Even though I have 16 inputs, that's not even close to the amount I need, so input 15 runs to two daisy-chained manual switchers. I put lesser used consoles on these switches, and duplicate consoles, for example, I have two PSXs with link cables. I send one to one TV, and the other to the other TV.
For RF-only systems, I kept them RF, again, it's how they were played, so keep it real. The RF plugs run into a manual RF switcher, the Extron can't handle RF for some reason, and then goes to a VCR. The VCR spits out the component output to one of the manual switches hooked to the extron, so I can only play one RF-based system at a time unless I rewire something.
Besides the two putputs to the TV, I have one output to the stereo system, got this for $10
While it looks like it's a very rare Non3O it's actually a Denon. This way I can send audio from any device to the stereo AND TVs. This lets me load up so music on say, xbox, then play nes on one TV, snes on the other.
Another trick is this little toy:
It has 4 video outputs running to its inputs, and one output running back to the switching fabric. This is a CCTV video processor, it splits the screen into 4 diffrent sections.
I forget the math, but I was thinking it makes each section of my 55" into a 22" TV, depending on if I stretch the video or leave it 4:3. While it's great for multi-player and parties, it has one killer-app setup.
Use 5 gamecubes, one as the "master", and the other 4 use GBA players to emulate GBA controllers, you can then pipe the GBA video back to the 55" TV. So something like the pac-man vs game, where one player plays as pac-man on screen, and then you have the other people playing on the big screen as the ghosts.
...
Did I over do it again?
OH MY GOD YOU HAVE SHREK 2!?!??!?
Originally posted by: ToxieRules
Does anybody around here use a stereo for sound? I don't mean a new digital audio one either I mean like an old receiver with a couple of towers.
TV stock speakers are shit.
Just odd that everyone focuses on picture exclusively when the topic gets brought up and never mentions anything audio related... in my experience the sound is waaaaay more important than the picture quality especially with old games.
A solid sound system is a must. It's game changing
I have two JBL 6" bookshelf speakers and a JBL 10" Sub for all newer systems on my LED
A pair of Cerwin Vega bookshelfs for the retro area
So i guess for those who have framemeisters, does it look and play smooth? No input lag? Thats my biggest concern is having games that require reflexes and timing affected by the lag.
I am just wondering if buying it will be worth it for me and if it will pwrform like i am expecting.
Also do you need scart cables? Or can i just use composite or s video.
Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
So i guess for those who have framemeisters, does it look and play smooth? No input lag? Thats my biggest concern is having games that require reflexes and timing affected by the lag.
I am just wondering if buying it will be worth it for me and if it will pwrform like i am expecting. Also do you need scart cables? Or can i just use composite or s video.
If you're not using RGB, then you'd end up scaling some crap and making it worse. Also what people do not explain, the framemister is just an upscaler, because TVs have crappy internal upscalers to keep costs down. But not all TVs have the same bad upscaler, and no matter what people seem to think, a few TVs have good quality upscalers. So depending on your TV, you may very well see little to no diffrence. If your TV was a high-end TV with a game mode or non-post processing mode, you'd get less value out of it than if you had a pos TV
P.S. If I start calling my video games my mistresses, I'd be forced to get rid of them :-P
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDMI-to-HDMI-720P-1080P-HD-Video-Converter-Monitor-Box-For-HDTV-DVD-STB-/400741908951?hash=item5d4e1441d7
Is something like this worth it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scart-HDM...
Generally no, unless you need to hook it to HDMI for some reason. See the problem is people say their game systems are in 240p, 60 FPS, that's BS, there's no such thing as 240p. It's 480i, 30 FPS signal, but consoles dont alternate the field markings corectly, so it draws every other line twice per frame, and skips the other lines, hence making scan lines. Most devices, like TVs or I bet that converter, are not ecpecting this, so they correct the non-stanadard video, hence no scan lines. Most of the time, that's the big issue for most people, they're used to a curved picture with lines through it, so seeing a flat image with no lines, they say it's ugly.
Chances are that box is doing nothing diffrent than what your TV is already doing. It may be better than the processor in your TV, it may lower lag even (Yes, it can do that), but it most likely will just make the picture look like ass.