Harder or Easier to Learn NES Games
Just wondering what yall thought about this. The key to beating most NES games is to just memorize patterns, level layouts, etc. I feel like, as a kid, it was WAY easier to memorize these sorts of things, while my actual gaming talent (stuff like platforming, executing moves, etc.) wasn't quite so good. Things like Contra for example. While it can be a tough game for a newcomer, I can beat that game in my sleep from how much it's layout is ingrained in my head from my childhood. As an adult now, it feels like the total opposite. While I'm much better at doing certain things, it's tough to remember what I need to do to own one of these games the way I can own the games from my childhood. Do any of yall experience this? Or is it the opposite?
Comments
I don't know why it is (maybe all the booze throughout the years lol) it just seems harder to me when I'm learning, to use your example, oh I need to stay lower to not get hit by that bat. It frustrates me, cuz it's that thing in these games where you get a little bit further each time. Right now I'm trying to beat Silver Surfer, and I'll figure out where things spawn and how to avoid them, but it feels like each time I make it further I forget the stuff that comes before. Like during one life I'll get by a tank. Several lives later, I'll forget that tank even exists.
I know what you mean, I think that's just because it's an auto-scroller though. You are forced to remember things, but your instinct always takes over and you do something that seems logical.. except that it positions you in a terrible spot 2 seconds later. With a game like Castlevania or Ninja Gaiden, you can stop and sort of think about what it is you're doing. Of course you could pause, but... whatever. But also it can be hard with a game like Silver Surfer to remember things like spawn locations because there aren't as many landmarks like there are in a platformer. By far the best example of this I can think of is Star Force for NES. It's basically like Silver Surfer, but you'll have to memorize about 500x as much. At least that's my experience trying to beat that game (and not even getting halfway)
I think it's just a mark of poor game design. I just beat Castlevania 3 for the first time. 15 minutes ago. I loved it, but there was a lot about it that I didn't like. Stuff like "oh, when I walk up those stairs, a bat is going to fly from the side of the screen, so I should stand a little bit lower" -- stuff like that makes a game like Castlevania 3 (or even Castlevania 1 to an extent) very frustrating to play through. That's true of any game though: knowing what comes next makes it easier. But I feel like with NES games in particular, it tends to make the game substantially easier, since you know which part of the screen to stay on, or what powerup you should preferably have for a tough section. But having sections of the game that are simply unfair, and having to suffer through them and remember to avoid it next time.. that's just lame. Funny enough, I got Mario Maker and have seen so many levels like that created by people annoys the heck out of me. As for your question, I think it's a mix of both, and I haven't really changed since I was a kid.
If you haven't already, go watch the AVGN Castlvania episode right now.
I don't know why it is (maybe all the booze throughout the years lol) it just seems harder to me when I'm learning, to use your example, oh I need to stay lower to not get hit by that bat. It frustrates me, cuz it's that thing in these games where you get a little bit further each time. Right now I'm trying to beat Silver Surfer, and I'll figure out where things spawn and how to avoid them, but it feels like each time I make it further I forget the stuff that comes before. Like during one life I'll get by a tank. Several lives later, I'll forget that tank even exists.
I know what you mean, I think that's just because it's an auto-scroller though. You are forced to remember things, but your instinct always takes over and you do something that seems logical.. except that it positions you in a terrible spot 2 seconds later. With a game like Castlevania or Ninja Gaiden, you can stop and sort of think about what it is you're doing. Of course you could pause, but... whatever. But also it can be hard with a game like Silver Surfer to remember things like spawn locations because there aren't as many landmarks like there are in a platformer. By far the best example of this I can think of is Star Force for NES. It's basically like Silver Surfer, but you'll have to memorize about 500x as much. At least that's my experience trying to beat that game (and not even getting halfway)
I was going to say, OP (in AVGN voice) - Silver Surfer is a hell of a game to compare memorization/learning with! I'm on the last section of that game myself, and it's a total bitch no matter how many times you play through those sections.
Battletoads, on the other hand, becomes infinitely easier (the first 5 - 6 levels, anyway) the more you play it.
I also agree about the Castlevania series. Dracula's Curse is my favorite on the NES, but I agree that some of the patterns will drive you bat-shit (lol) crazy!
I think it's just a mark of poor game design.
Pattern memorization is just a type of gameplay. I wouldn't say its good or bad. As for picking games that will be easier or harder to learn, I guess you just gotta play to your strengths, whether that's memorization, reflexes, methodical patience, logic/deduction, pattern recognition, spatial perception. My skills in these areas have definitely changed since I was kid. I would say I am a lot better at reflex based games these days. (timing jumps/shots/etc)
I don't know why it is (maybe all the booze throughout the years lol) it just seems harder to me when I'm learning, to use your example, oh I need to stay lower to not get hit by that bat. It frustrates me, cuz it's that thing in these games where you get a little bit further each time. Right now I'm trying to beat Silver Surfer, and I'll figure out where things spawn and how to avoid them, but it feels like each time I make it further I forget the stuff that comes before. Like during one life I'll get by a tank. Several lives later, I'll forget that tank even exists.
I know what you mean, I think that's just because it's an auto-scroller though. You are forced to remember things, but your instinct always takes over and you do something that seems logical.. except that it positions you in a terrible spot 2 seconds later. With a game like Castlevania or Ninja Gaiden, you can stop and sort of think about what it is you're doing. Of course you could pause, but... whatever. But also it can be hard with a game like Silver Surfer to remember things like spawn locations because there aren't as many landmarks like there are in a platformer. By far the best example of this I can think of is Star Force for NES. It's basically like Silver Surfer, but you'll have to memorize about 500x as much. At least that's my experience trying to beat that game (and not even getting halfway)
I was going to say, OP (in AVGN voice) - Silver Surfer is a hell of a game to compare memorization/learning with! I'm on the last section of that game myself, and it's a total bitch no matter how many times you play through those sections.
Battletoads, on the other hand, becomes infinitely easier (the first 5 - 6 levels, anyway) the more you play it.
I also agree about the Castlevania series. Dracula's Curse is my favorite on the NES, but I agree that some of the patterns will drive you bat-shit (lol) crazy!
I'm able to get about half-way through SS right now, so hopefully I can finish it up soon. It's definitely how the Nerd makes it out to be every time you die, where you just want to kneel down in that pose of despair that you see Silver Surfer do lol.
Battletoads is next on my list, so that's good to hear that it get's easier the more you play it. That game is such a pain, but apparently that's my favorite genre of game
I don't know why it is (maybe all the booze throughout the years lol) it just seems harder to me when I'm learning, to use your example, oh I need to stay lower to not get hit by that bat. It frustrates me, cuz it's that thing in these games where you get a little bit further each time. Right now I'm trying to beat Silver Surfer, and I'll figure out where things spawn and how to avoid them, but it feels like each time I make it further I forget the stuff that comes before. Like during one life I'll get by a tank. Several lives later, I'll forget that tank even exists.
I know what you mean, I think that's just because it's an auto-scroller though. You are forced to remember things, but your instinct always takes over and you do something that seems logical.. except that it positions you in a terrible spot 2 seconds later. With a game like Castlevania or Ninja Gaiden, you can stop and sort of think about what it is you're doing. Of course you could pause, but... whatever. But also it can be hard with a game like Silver Surfer to remember things like spawn locations because there aren't as many landmarks like there are in a platformer. By far the best example of this I can think of is Star Force for NES. It's basically like Silver Surfer, but you'll have to memorize about 500x as much. At least that's my experience trying to beat that game (and not even getting halfway)
I was going to say, OP (in AVGN voice) - Silver Surfer is a hell of a game to compare memorization/learning with! I'm on the last section of that game myself, and it's a total bitch no matter how many times you play through those sections.
Battletoads, on the other hand, becomes infinitely easier (the first 5 - 6 levels, anyway) the more you play it.
I also agree about the Castlevania series. Dracula's Curse is my favorite on the NES, but I agree that some of the patterns will drive you bat-shit (lol) crazy!
I'm able to get about half-way through SS right now, so hopefully I can finish it up soon. It's definitely how the Nerd makes it out to be every time you die, where you just want to kneel down in that pose of despair that you see Silver Surfer do lol.
Battletoads is next on my list, so that's good to hear that it get's easier the more you play it. That game is such a pain, but apparently that's my favorite genre of game
As I've said in the Battletoads thread we've got going, it's becoming my favorite NES game. It can't be un-played!
I'm rotating between Silver Surfer and Battletoads this week.
I have no idea how I played some NES games as a kid. They were difficult, and some had extremely hard puzzles. There was no internet, I didnt have a nintendo power subscription, and wasnt allowed to call the hotline, yet I could skim right through even the most difficult game.
I know what you mean. I think it's a combination of things, mainly time (had nothing better to do back then, now we have so many options) but also a game's reputation can change your opinions of it early on. There are some games I beat as a kid that now have a reputation of being "impossibly hard" - I feel like going into a game with no idea what to expect, in many cases, makes it more likely that you'll see it through to the end.
The big hurtle for me is as an adult, I lack patience. As a kid, I guess I didn't mind dying and having to redo a level 10x, at some point I was bound to luck it through it just by bulldozing thru it again and again. Now having to redo a level, or worse getting a game over, is totally soul crushing. I don't feel encouraged to try and try again. If I don't feel like I am making legit progress, it is easy for me just start feeling like the whole affair is a waste of time and I should play/do something else.