Finally completed the Legend of Zelda swordless challenge
So, after playing this file off and on for over a year, I finally made it to Ganon with 3 hearts, no ring, and no sword:
(And yes, I immediately laid the bait down for him, but he didn't want it.)
Of course, Ganon is impossible to beat without the sword, so the run ended there. Some people grab the sword and finish Ganon off, but he kills me in one hit.. if anyone knows of a technique for killing him without getting hit, I'd love to hear it. I could do it by getting more hearts, a potion, or the red ring, but that feels cheap.
I figured I'd just mention a few things about this run:
- Two things took priority for me: getting the wand, and getting the bomb upgrades. I can't remember which order I did those in.
- The free 100 rupee location and the rupee game is an excellent way to make money early on
- Bombs are your primary concern, because...
- Darknuts and Wizzrobes are only harmed by the sword and bombs. This is what makes the game so difficult. (Edit: darknuts can be harmed by the strike of the magic rod)
- Once you have the wand, most enemies are damaged by it, so it becomes your replacement sword, and does damage similar to the white sword.
- There is a technique for forcing enemies to drop bombs and fairies. I didn't know this until the end of the game, but it would have made things easier
- I ended up at 73 deaths.
- Most of this run consisted of very small goals at a time, like my entire goal for a session would be to kill one Patra, since they don't respawn.
If I could do this again, I'd try to make it a true minimalist run by avoiding the master key and not getting the bomb upgrades. Now that I know how bomb drops work, I think it's possible, though it would be quite frustrating. I'd also avoid the wand, but I'm almost certain there are some enemies that you need to kill who can only be harmed by the wand in this run.
In case anyone is wondering, here's the basics of forcing bomb and fairy drops:
There is a counter which starts at 0 and is reset to 0 any time you get hit. Killing an enemy increments the counter.
When you kill the 10th enemy, if that enemy CAN drop a bomb, and you kill it WITH a bomb, it will drop a bomb. This is what the old man meant by his cryptic message of "10th enemy has the bomb" in Level 8.
The counter then continues to go up. Remember, if you get hit, it resets to 0. On the 16th enemy, if that enemy CAN drop a fairy, it WILL drop a fairy. From then on, the 26th, 36th, 46th, etc. enemies will drop bombs if you kill them with bombs. However, if you don't get the fairy drop (by killing a keese or something which doesn't give fairies) then you will be able to force bombs on the 20th, 30th, 40th, etc. kills.
There are some locations in the game where this can be exploited. For example, in Level 9, there is a room full of zols when you exit an underground passage containing 4 keese. You can purposefully take damage on one of the keese, resetting the counter to 0, then exit and re-enter the room, killing keese, to get your counter up to 15, then kill a Zol for your 16th enemy, getting a fairy. The same thing can be done for refilling your bombs.
Anyways, I know this is a niche thing, but I had fun doing it and thought I'd share my experience for anyone interested
(And yes, I immediately laid the bait down for him, but he didn't want it.)
Of course, Ganon is impossible to beat without the sword, so the run ended there. Some people grab the sword and finish Ganon off, but he kills me in one hit.. if anyone knows of a technique for killing him without getting hit, I'd love to hear it. I could do it by getting more hearts, a potion, or the red ring, but that feels cheap.
I figured I'd just mention a few things about this run:
- Two things took priority for me: getting the wand, and getting the bomb upgrades. I can't remember which order I did those in.
- The free 100 rupee location and the rupee game is an excellent way to make money early on
- Bombs are your primary concern, because...
- Darknuts and Wizzrobes are only harmed by the sword and bombs. This is what makes the game so difficult. (Edit: darknuts can be harmed by the strike of the magic rod)
- Once you have the wand, most enemies are damaged by it, so it becomes your replacement sword, and does damage similar to the white sword.
- There is a technique for forcing enemies to drop bombs and fairies. I didn't know this until the end of the game, but it would have made things easier
- I ended up at 73 deaths.
- Most of this run consisted of very small goals at a time, like my entire goal for a session would be to kill one Patra, since they don't respawn.
If I could do this again, I'd try to make it a true minimalist run by avoiding the master key and not getting the bomb upgrades. Now that I know how bomb drops work, I think it's possible, though it would be quite frustrating. I'd also avoid the wand, but I'm almost certain there are some enemies that you need to kill who can only be harmed by the wand in this run.
In case anyone is wondering, here's the basics of forcing bomb and fairy drops:
There is a counter which starts at 0 and is reset to 0 any time you get hit. Killing an enemy increments the counter.
When you kill the 10th enemy, if that enemy CAN drop a bomb, and you kill it WITH a bomb, it will drop a bomb. This is what the old man meant by his cryptic message of "10th enemy has the bomb" in Level 8.
The counter then continues to go up. Remember, if you get hit, it resets to 0. On the 16th enemy, if that enemy CAN drop a fairy, it WILL drop a fairy. From then on, the 26th, 36th, 46th, etc. enemies will drop bombs if you kill them with bombs. However, if you don't get the fairy drop (by killing a keese or something which doesn't give fairies) then you will be able to force bombs on the 20th, 30th, 40th, etc. kills.
There are some locations in the game where this can be exploited. For example, in Level 9, there is a room full of zols when you exit an underground passage containing 4 keese. You can purposefully take damage on one of the keese, resetting the counter to 0, then exit and re-enter the room, killing keese, to get your counter up to 15, then kill a Zol for your 16th enemy, getting a fairy. The same thing can be done for refilling your bombs.
Anyways, I know this is a niche thing, but I had fun doing it and thought I'd share my experience for anyone interested
Comments
if anyone knows of a technique for killing him without getting hit, I'd love to hear it.
First learn his movement. Some people say he moves in a figure 8, but I don't see it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsZCqlqPGmY
You can stun lock him, I'm not sure how tight the timing is however. When you hit him, his invincibility wears off before he moves again, but the timing it tight. You may want to pratice with save states\game genie (Give him infinate life)\pro action replay. If you hit him in that window a few times in a row you can stun lock him.
And yes, you need the wand for gleek, it's also amazing aginst darknuts. Hit hits behind you as you pull it back, so when a darknut is behing you, walking twards you, you use the wand away from them, they get hit, and pass through you. It also hits above link for some reason when facing left, right or down.
As for the 16th fairy there's another trick that only works for that one. If you kill the 15th and 16th with a single bomb, you get two. 14ths, 15th, and 16th all at once with one bomb, 3 fairies. Pretty worthless but still cool.
Huh, I wish that video was longer to see if there's any places where he never goes. It looks like the right or leftmost column is relatively safe. I've seen the stun-lock thing before but I doubt I could keep it up for 16 hits. I think I will practice on an emulator some day before I attempt it on a console. Thanks for sharing
No sword or deaths
Didn't do it with no hits but limited them.
Good info on the bomb generation. I slogged through the game all these years without ever knowing that mechanic, but it's fun to know that the cryptic message actually meant something.
BTW -- your title should be "minimalist Zelda"... plain old "swordless" Zelda doesn't require you to skip anything other than the sword.
Didn't do it with no hits but limited them.
Not bad for how many times you have to hit him with the basic sword... but without the red ring you'd have died 4 or 5 times, I think
Didn't do it with no hits but limited them.
Not bad for how many times you have to hit him with the basic sword... but without the red ring you'd have died 4 or 5 times, I think
Without a doubt.
Didn't do it with no hits but limited them.
Nicely done! I found this video, but I'm thinking this guy used save states:
BTW -- your title should be "minimalist Zelda"... plain old "swordless" Zelda doesn't require you to skip anything other than the sword.
That's true, although this wasn't a minimalist run since I grabbed the magical key and both bomb upgrades. I may do a minimalist run some time; taking on a room full of blue darknuts or wizzrobes with the sword is quite a challenge in and of itself. But the Ganon fight is just the same
Absolutely awesome, OP; a true feat! I've always wanted to give this a shot, as LoZ is my favorite NES game. Great pics, too!
Thanks! It was both more fun and more challenging than I thought it was going to be, but I learned a lot about the game along the way. The pics are just screencaps from streaming at the unofficial NA chat, check it out and play some games some time
As for the 16th fairy there's another trick that only works for that one. If you kill the 15th and 16th with a single bomb, you get two. 14ths, 15th, and 16th all at once with one bomb, 3 fairies. Pretty worthless but still cool.
That's cool, I didn't know that. Could actually be useful if you're doing a normal run and are low on health in the middle of a dungeon.
Congrats man! Quite an accomplishment and I never knew that about the bombs or fairies. Good read!
Glad you enjoyed it
The only Zelda game I've completely beaten minimalist is A Link to the Past. That was harder than I anticipated, but I've really been enjoying minimalist stuff. It adds a depth of difficulty which I enjoy more than something like speedrunning.
I'm curious if anyone has done a Zelda II minimalist run? I looked into it shortly and basically said "meh, nevermind..." The candle is actually unnecessary. For a game like LttP, I could tolerate that, but it would make Zelda 2 more annoying than challenging. Also, the idea behind a Zelda II minimalist run would be primarily to keep your levels low, but if you want them as low as possible, it requires extremely tricky (basically TAS-only) jumps to collect the key and save the game after beating a boss but before leveling up.
I'm curious if anyone has done a Zelda II minimalist run? I looked into it shortly and basically said "meh, nevermind..." The candle is actually unnecessary. For a game like LttP, I could tolerate that, but it would make Zelda 2 more annoying than challenging. Also, the idea behind a Zelda II minimalist run would be primarily to keep your levels low, but if you want them as low as possible, it requires extremely tricky (basically TAS-only) jumps to collect the key and save the game after beating a boss but before leveling up.
OSG had a thread running for a long time where he was managing to beat Zelda 2 without EVERY leveling up.
Don't recall item-related minimalism being involved though (outside of health/magic upgrade avoidance)