FF6 is my favorite game of all time because it felt more epic and emotional to me personally than any game I've ever played. It is certainly not a hidden gem, as it even periodically made position #1 in Nintendo Power.
However, FF7 easily makes a case for being just as good, if not better. If you really clear your head, look past the aged character models, and take a look at all the effort that went into FF7, the smaller details start to jump out at you.
Beautiful extra touches such as sounds and animations that didn't have to be there. A good early example is on the Midgar train that had passenger ID checkpoints. Or when the characters sit down and actually try to figure out the plot, piecing together what the heck happened during the raid on the Shinra building. We'd never quite seen complicated storylines and scenarios of that caliber in a jRPG before, not even in 2D. They built a living, breathing world, an organic plot, and they built it all on small details and histories that span decades before Cloud ever joined up with Avalanche.
The storyline; I think it's a product of the time. Neon Genesis Evangelion was very popular in Japan, and I believe they wanted to write a crazy, f'd up storyline in the same vein. I'm a fan of this style of storytelling because it's unpredictable and wild -- The world is dying, big things are happening that you can't possibly understand (without a lot of research), and in the moment, there's very little you can do about it.
In just about every jRPG prior, you pretty much always know exactly what's going on, exactly who the bad guys are, and you feel -very- capable of fixing it all right up. You'll get -at worst- a curveball in your otherwise happy ending. FF7 challenged the way we think about jRPGs and plotwriting. It challenged what makes a good jRPG soundtrack. It led jRPGs and even game development as a whole in a new direction, but it set such a high bar that very few have been able to follow it up since.
Years later, the graphics may not have aged terribly well, but the things it did right I haven't truly seen done as well again.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
Maybe because I was hyped about it at release and bought it immediately that I never considered FF3 a hidden gem. I've beaten both several times and although many claim FF7's graphics make it hard to play now I've never had a problem with it. Both are amazing games, but personally I have more fun replaying FF7 than FF3. A lot of that has to do with me liking the music/SFX more (granted, FF3's music is awesome too) plus the limit, materia and summon system is more enjoyable. For example, the SFX for killing monsters is just so satisfying, and I've yet to play an RPG that made you feel more badass than when you cast omnislash (or really any limit break) or knights of the round. This doesn't mean FF3 is bad, it's just always been harder for me to replay it when I feel nostalgiac and boot it up. Fights just don't feel as badass, and for a 60+ hour game where you'll be fighting A LOT it's hard for me to prefer FF3's battles. I've always thought of FF3 as a more rewarding experience, though, despite being harder to get back into. It's a lot like older movie classics that remain very interesting but don't necessarily have the immediate pull of like a Fargo or The Shining. In that sense I would bet far more new people would prefer to play FF7 despite both games being equally as amazing, just in their own ways. Neither game is perfect but they make up for their flaws by really excelling in other areas, and for me the areas where FF7 excels are the ones that appeal to me the most as a gamer.
tl;dr I prefer replaying FF7 at the end of the day. Its amazing audio and battle system make it much easier to get back into at any point in time, but FF3 is a richer and more rewarding game after one gets used to its oldschool style.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
I meant in Final Fantasy standards. And I guess your right about FF8 . The whining is very annoying, but I like it because of gameplay, music, and the story. I know I have weird tastes.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
I meant in Final Fantasy standards.
Oh, then check out 4 Heroes of Light on the DS. It only sold 220,000 copies, instead of the 2,250,000 copies FF8 sold.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
I meant in Final Fantasy standards. And I guess your right about FF8 . The whining is very annoying, but I like it because of gameplay, music, and the story. I know I have weird tastes.
Yeah I dunno if any PS1 FF can be called hidden
Those were the biggest games on the system, some of the biggest events of the year, non-stop coverage and discussion, TV spots, etc.
I like how you're all ignoring the fact I pointed out the boss in FF6 is a big homosexual orgy with ear fucking.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
Considering you could go to Japan and probably find games in which characters are actually doing what you're saying the FF6 and FF7 bosses look like they're doing, it's not that shocking. Besides, in a series in which hairstyles and fashion don't even make sense, what can we really expect from the things you fight?
I like how you're all ignoring the fact I pointed out the boss in FF6 is a big homosexual orgy with ear fucking.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
Considering you could go to Japan and probably find games in which characters are actually doing what you're saying the FF6 and FF7 bosses look like they're doing, it's not that shocking. Besides, in a series in which hairstyles and fashion don't even make sense, what can we really expect from the things you fight?
We can expect them to stop fucking while they fight us at least. It's only common coutesy
I like how you're all ignoring the fact I pointed out the boss in FF6 is a big homosexual orgy with ear fucking.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
Considering you could go to Japan and probably find games in which characters are actually doing what you're saying the FF6 and FF7 bosses look like they're doing, it's not that shocking. Besides, in a series in which hairstyles and fashion don't even make sense, what can we really expect from the things you fight?
We can expect them to stop fucking while they fight us at least. It's only common coutesy
You don't know much about Japanese PC games, do you?
FFVII turned me off from the series, and I started with FF1 in 1990. I've since tried to come around and give it another chance, but for reals, FFVII left a bad taste. I ignored VIII and IX because of it.
FFVI is a crown jewel in the SNES library. Even my wife, who started the series with VII because she didn't like "pixel cartoon graphics," has since played through FFVI and enjoyed the hell out of it.
But really guys, we all know FFIV beats them both.
The use of cutscenes, and it expanded on the story and characters more than previous RPGs IMO...
Use of cutscenes: you mean specific to console-based JRPGs? Because Wizardry Gold (a major graphical/sound update to Wizardry 7) came out a full year before FF7 and is a western CRPG that uses quite a few cutscenes (and there are probably dozens of PC game examples like this that predate FF7)
Character/Story expansion: again, I guess it depends on the specific sub-genre/platform you're talking about, because I don't think the character descriptions/stories in FF7 hold a candle to something like Betrayal at Krondor (released on PC in 1993)
I will grant that the game set a new bar for what people expect from JRPGs on consoles, though
It's also worth mentioning that FF7 had a few CGI cutscenes where you could still control your character during the scene. I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time, and come to think of it it's still very rarely done.
It's also worth mentioning that FF7 had a few CGI cutscenes where you could still control your character during the scene. I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time, and come to think of it it's still very rarely done.
Isn't "controllable cutscene" the ENTIRE GAME for classics like the laserdisc version of Dragon's Lair?
It's also worth mentioning that FF7 had a few CGI cutscenes where you could still control your character during the scene. I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time, and come to think of it it's still very rarely done.
Isn't "controllable cutscene" the ENTIRE GAME for classics like the laserdisc version of Dragon's Lair?
No, because the Don Bluth laserdisc games you are simply telling what static animation to load next.
I believe there is a scene where Diamond Weapon is walking away and you can literally run around in the foreground with your character as it is happening. That kind of stuff blew me away at the time.
I think the intro for Final fantasy VII midgar is the best intro for any final fantasy. but kefka is so evil and funny i can't help but admire him. sephiroth is just plain old bad ass. i appreciate final fantasy Vi a little bit more each time i play it, but the first final fantasy i played was VII and to this day it still plays better than most games sadly(doesn't say much about the industry now). i just can't help that feeling that squre enix will never top those two due to technology, budget and lack of a good team. at this point i would prefer a final fantasy VI remake over a VII simply beause if you look at the box art for japan version and the manual art work from VI it looks like they could add SSOOOO MUCH MORE to it(especially with that ps1 intro for final fantasy VI). it looked like technology prevented there truly ambitious vision if you ask me.
No, because the Don Bluth laserdisc games you are simply telling what static animation to load next.
I believe there is a scene where Diamond Weapon is walking away and you can literally run around in the foreground with your character as it is happening. That kind of stuff blew me away at the time.
You made it sound like you're actively controlling the pre-rendered (i.e. much higher quality graphics) cutscene, which obviously isn't the case, though.
No, because the Don Bluth laserdisc games you are simply telling what static animation to load next.
I believe there is a scene where Diamond Weapon is walking away and you can literally run around in the foreground with your character as it is happening. That kind of stuff blew me away at the time.
You made it sound like you're actively controlling the pre-rendered (i.e. much higher quality graphics) cutscene, which obviously isn't the case, though.
Yeah we're talking about what basically amounts to an overlay over the video layer. The video starts playing but they still 'leave you in the scene' (your in-game character model) and let you control your character during parts of it. It may sound like a simple thing, but it really added to the immersion for me.
Straight cutscenes feel colder and more disconnected from the actual gameplay, so I really liked this feature.
Comments
However, FF7 easily makes a case for being just as good, if not better. If you really clear your head, look past the aged character models, and take a look at all the effort that went into FF7, the smaller details start to jump out at you.
Beautiful extra touches such as sounds and animations that didn't have to be there. A good early example is on the Midgar train that had passenger ID checkpoints. Or when the characters sit down and actually try to figure out the plot, piecing together what the heck happened during the raid on the Shinra building. We'd never quite seen complicated storylines and scenarios of that caliber in a jRPG before, not even in 2D. They built a living, breathing world, an organic plot, and they built it all on small details and histories that span decades before Cloud ever joined up with Avalanche.
The storyline; I think it's a product of the time. Neon Genesis Evangelion was very popular in Japan, and I believe they wanted to write a crazy, f'd up storyline in the same vein. I'm a fan of this style of storytelling because it's unpredictable and wild -- The world is dying, big things are happening that you can't possibly understand (without a lot of research), and in the moment, there's very little you can do about it.
In just about every jRPG prior, you pretty much always know exactly what's going on, exactly who the bad guys are, and you feel -very- capable of fixing it all right up. You'll get -at worst- a curveball in your otherwise happy ending. FF7 challenged the way we think about jRPGs and plotwriting. It challenged what makes a good jRPG soundtrack. It led jRPGs and even game development as a whole in a new direction, but it set such a high bar that very few have been able to follow it up since.
Years later, the graphics may not have aged terribly well, but the things it did right I haven't truly seen done as well again.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
tl;dr I prefer replaying FF7 at the end of the day. Its amazing audio and battle system make it much easier to get back into at any point in time, but FF3 is a richer and more rewarding game after one gets used to its oldschool style.
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem.
Seriously. Philosoraptor is truth.
Also, the term hidden gem is dumb.
Hidden gem=Game NA will hype, then the price will go up, then everyone will hate it.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
I meant in Final Fantasy standards. And I guess your right about FF8 . The whining is very annoying, but I like it because of gameplay, music, and the story. I know I have weird tastes.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
I meant in Final Fantasy standards.
Oh, then check out 4 Heroes of Light on the DS. It only sold 220,000 copies, instead of the 2,250,000 copies FF8 sold.
Heh. I see what your saying. Maybe I caught myself too much in the FF7 Fab. But, most of my top picks are ACTUAL hidden gems (8 for example)
No Final Fantasy game is a hidden gem. Not even Dissidia or the real FF3. That term should only apply to games in a library that people who are well versed in the hobby routinely overlook, like Tecmo Secret of the Stars (SNES), Beyond Oasis (Genesis), the Digimon World series on the PS1, or the Izuna series on the DS.
Also, food for thought; 8 would be the worst FF game by leaps and bounds if that game had full voice acting. The amount of whining in that game is insufferable.
I meant in Final Fantasy standards. And I guess your right about FF8 . The whining is very annoying, but I like it because of gameplay, music, and the story. I know I have weird tastes.
Yeah I dunno if any PS1 FF can be called hidden
Those were the biggest games on the system, some of the biggest events of the year, non-stop coverage and discussion, TV spots, etc.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
I like how you're all ignoring the fact I pointed out the boss in FF6 is a big homosexual orgy with ear fucking.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
Considering you could go to Japan and probably find games in which characters are actually doing what you're saying the FF6 and FF7 bosses look like they're doing, it's not that shocking. Besides, in a series in which hairstyles and fashion don't even make sense, what can we really expect from the things you fight?
I like how you're all ignoring the fact I pointed out the boss in FF6 is a big homosexual orgy with ear fucking.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
Considering you could go to Japan and probably find games in which characters are actually doing what you're saying the FF6 and FF7 bosses look like they're doing, it's not that shocking. Besides, in a series in which hairstyles and fashion don't even make sense, what can we really expect from the things you fight?
We can expect them to stop fucking while they fight us at least. It's only common coutesy
I like how you're all ignoring the fact I pointed out the boss in FF6 is a big homosexual orgy with ear fucking.
Oh and FFVII last boss?
Isn't that a black man inside a bent over white guy? D.Blow indeed
Considering you could go to Japan and probably find games in which characters are actually doing what you're saying the FF6 and FF7 bosses look like they're doing, it's not that shocking. Besides, in a series in which hairstyles and fashion don't even make sense, what can we really expect from the things you fight?
We can expect them to stop fucking while they fight us at least. It's only common coutesy
You don't know much about Japanese PC games, do you?
FF VII to me is a game that changed everything for RPGs... FF VI was just another SNES RPG, not even the best one on the SNES.
Yes I'm a FF VII fanman, cause I ain't no damn boy,
The only game I feel the need to go back and replay every few years...
Just this time last year I was starting it over from the beginning for the 10th or 11th time...
This time I downloaded it from PSN and played on the PS3, damn I love the controller for it...
FFVI is a crown jewel in the SNES library. Even my wife, who started the series with VII because she didn't like "pixel cartoon graphics," has since played through FFVI and enjoyed the hell out of it.
But really guys, we all know FFIV beats them both.
FF VII > FF VI
FF VII to me is a game that changed everything for RPGs... FF VI was just another SNES RPG, not even the best one on the SNES.
In what way did "change everything for RPGs"?
I don't feel like it even changed all that much for JRPGs, let alone so influentual that in changed western RPGs...
The use of cutscenes, and it expanded on the story and characters more than previous RPGs IMO...
Use of cutscenes: you mean specific to console-based JRPGs? Because Wizardry Gold (a major graphical/sound update to Wizardry 7) came out a full year before FF7 and is a western CRPG that uses quite a few cutscenes (and there are probably dozens of PC game examples like this that predate FF7)
Character/Story expansion: again, I guess it depends on the specific sub-genre/platform you're talking about, because I don't think the character descriptions/stories in FF7 hold a candle to something like Betrayal at Krondor (released on PC in 1993)
I will grant that the game set a new bar for what people expect from JRPGs on consoles, though
I think he means CGI cut scenes.
It's also worth mentioning that FF7 had a few CGI cutscenes where you could still control your character during the scene. I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time, and come to think of it it's still very rarely done.
I think he means CGI cut scenes.
It's also worth mentioning that FF7 had a few CGI cutscenes where you could still control your character during the scene. I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time, and come to think of it it's still very rarely done.
Isn't "controllable cutscene" the ENTIRE GAME for classics like the laserdisc version of Dragon's Lair?
I think he means CGI cut scenes.
It's also worth mentioning that FF7 had a few CGI cutscenes where you could still control your character during the scene. I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time, and come to think of it it's still very rarely done.
Isn't "controllable cutscene" the ENTIRE GAME for classics like the laserdisc version of Dragon's Lair?
No, because the Don Bluth laserdisc games you are simply telling what static animation to load next.
I believe there is a scene where Diamond Weapon is walking away and you can literally run around in the foreground with your character as it is happening. That kind of stuff blew me away at the time.
No, because the Don Bluth laserdisc games you are simply telling what static animation to load next.
I believe there is a scene where Diamond Weapon is walking away and you can literally run around in the foreground with your character as it is happening. That kind of stuff blew me away at the time.
You made it sound like you're actively controlling the pre-rendered (i.e. much higher quality graphics) cutscene, which obviously isn't the case, though.
No, because the Don Bluth laserdisc games you are simply telling what static animation to load next.
I believe there is a scene where Diamond Weapon is walking away and you can literally run around in the foreground with your character as it is happening. That kind of stuff blew me away at the time.
You made it sound like you're actively controlling the pre-rendered (i.e. much higher quality graphics) cutscene, which obviously isn't the case, though.
Yeah we're talking about what basically amounts to an overlay over the video layer. The video starts playing but they still 'leave you in the scene' (your in-game character model) and let you control your character during parts of it. It may sound like a simple thing, but it really added to the immersion for me.
Straight cutscenes feel colder and more disconnected from the actual gameplay, so I really liked this feature.
Lol come on now. Plenty of games did that well before FFVII. Have you ever played Rebel Assault? That came out in like 1993.
Are you referring to what I said? Because...
I can't think of another RPG that did that at the time
But if you can think of another RPG that did it, I'm all ears.
P.S.- The first game I played that did this was MegaRace, which was also 1993.