Alot of games back then, and even into the SNES era, were intentionally made hard not so much for the sake of being hard, but to artificially extend the length of the game, since the carts didn't have the capacity to hold a larger game. If you look at most games from back then on paper, they are actually really short, especially compared to whats out there now on modern systems. So they made the games harder to make them feel alot longer, so you felt like you got your money's worth.
This is a common trope, but I cannot accept it. I am curious how many people who say this grew up with these games vs discovering them after, let's say the age of 15.
It's not "articifical". It's "challenging". A game that takes 20-30 hours to master but can be beaten in 45 minutes after that, is worth much more to me than a game that will always take 20-30 hours because it's like watching or being in a movie. The latter game will always be the same. The former has opportunity for variation and can be a different experience each time.
Maybe I should have said it differently, cuz what you said is actually pretty much what I was trying to say lol... That the added difficulty makes alot of games harder to get really good at, which 'extends' the length of the game in that it takes alot more play time to get good enough to actually complete the game the first time or two. But, once you are good at it, you can fly through the game fairly quickly because its actually not all that long, it just takes all that time and practice to get good enough to be able to do it.
I remember when I picked up the first DKC a couple of years ago when I started collecting, it took me a month (maybe 20-25 hrs of actual play time) to get through it once because it had been so long and I was so rusty. But only a few months ago, I played through DKC3 in one sitting because I had the feel for the DKC games back that I had as a kid, the challenge was mostly gone (though the fun wasn't) and I just flew through it in about 3 hours while mildly intoxicated lol.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
He momentum based physics can get saturated and do weird things frequently.
in most games with simple/fake physics, you can make your brain accept the bad physics as normal and adapt.
But games like Gravitar or Solar Jetman try really hard to approximate reality in a way that makes the momentum inuitive IF it is working correctly. When it doesn't it is a special kind of mindfuck.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
Arch_8ngel beat me to it, but yeah, the physics take some getting used to. Not to mention the fact that every planet (each level is its own planet) has its own gravity, which basically means you need to re-learn how to fly your pod every time. This isn't a perfect comparison, but imagine if Mario's running speed and jump height changed from world to world.
I got to the fourth planet, Corso Quero, and got torn to shreds. If I have one issue with this it's that it is NOT a shooter, but certain areas contain respawning enemies that prevent you from making any kind of progress. Individual enemies are pretty weak, but when you dispatch a group fo three only to have another three spawn immediately after, it's impossible to do what you're supposed to be doing, which is towing loot back to your ship. You're vulnerable while you've got an item hitched, so you either have to drop the item to fight (meaningless since stuff respawns almost immediately) or just fly out of there and pray you don't get obliterated while your shields are down.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
Arch_8ngel beat me to it, but yeah, the physics take some getting used to. Not to mention the fact that every planet (each level is its own planet) has its own gravity, which basically means you need to re-learn how to fly your pod every time. This isn't a perfect comparison, but imagine if Mario's running speed and jump height changed from world to world.
I got to the fourth planet, Corso Quero, and got torn to shreds. If I have one issue with this it's that it is NOT a shooter, but certain areas contain respawning enemies that prevent you from making any kind of progress. Individual enemies are pretty weak, but when you dispatch a group fo three only to have another three spawn immediately after, it's impossible to do what you're supposed to be doing, which is towing loot back to your ship. You're vulnerable while you've got an item hitched, so you either have to drop the item to fight (meaningless since stuff respawns almost immediately) or just fly out of there and pray you don't get obliterated while your shields are down.
Sounds like a huge pain in the ass, lol. I got the cart in a bulk lot last year and have yet to even test it.
I'm really all about Zelda II at the moment. It's consuming my thoughts Nearing the end of the game, with that damn final stretch before the final palace. I'll be happy when this one's done!
Mr. Gimmick. From mastering the physics of the star, to enemies that harass you until defeated, and especially the requirement of six hard to find items that you must get (without continuing once) in order to receive the good ending
Some games are especially tough to complete without continuing because there are no extra lives. When you lose a life, that's it. Anyone who can beat NES "Batman" on a single credit deserves respect. The game would have been better with a time limit for each level and bonus lives after earning so many points. As it is, points in "Batman" are meaningless.
I can easily complete "Golden Axe" within the allotted number of continues but I've yet to beat it on a single credit. Again because no extra lives and I always mess up at some point (e.g. the final boss).
I'm on the last section on the run to the final palace in Zelda II, and it's absolutely insane.
Good luck! The Great Palace is a real pain mostly because of how absurdly long it is. Fortunately, there are a couple of spots where you can farm Bots for magic jars to power back up if you're low. Also, avoid the bird-knights as much as possible because they are probably the worst part of that place.
But once you've finished it, the feeling is awesome!
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
Arch_8ngel beat me to it, but yeah, the physics take some getting used to. Not to mention the fact that every planet (each level is its own planet) has its own gravity, which basically means you need to re-learn how to fly your pod every time. This isn't a perfect comparison, but imagine if Mario's running speed and jump height changed from world to world.
I got to the fourth planet, Corso Quero, and got torn to shreds. If I have one issue with this it's that it is NOT a shooter, but certain areas contain respawning enemies that prevent you from making any kind of progress. Individual enemies are pretty weak, but when you dispatch a group fo three only to have another three spawn immediately after, it's impossible to do what you're supposed to be doing, which is towing loot back to your ship. You're vulnerable while you've got an item hitched, so you either have to drop the item to fight (meaningless since stuff respawns almost immediately) or just fly out of there and pray you don't get obliterated while your shields are down.
Sounds like a huge pain in the ass, lol. I got the cart in a bulk lot last year and have yet to even test it.
I'm really all about Zelda II at the moment. It's consuming my thoughts Nearing the end of the game, with that damn final stretch before the final palace. I'll be happy when this one's done!
Definitely check it out. It's worth a play just because it's so unique. I still pop it in and play through the first planet and a little of the second every so often.
I'm on the last section on the run to the final palace in Zelda II, and it's absolutely insane.
Good luck! The Great Palace is a real pain mostly because of how absurdly long it is. Fortunately, there are a couple of spots where you can farm Bots for magic jars to power back up if you're low. Also, avoid the bird-knights as much as possible because they are probably the worst part of that place.
But once you've finished it, the feeling is awesome!
Yes, the haul is a real pain. I'm not looking forward to the last Palace, lol.
Some of the hardest games are ones nobody talks about and nobody plays.
People talk about stuff like Ninja Gaiden because they are common and/or good.
Arkanoid seems like it might be the hardest NES game to me. Just insanely fast and too many levels to beat, and nothing that can help you except raw skill/luck.
Ultimate Air Combat is very hard, in fact there are no completion videos on YouTube. If someone can beat it, I wish they would put up a video of it.
Q*Bert is also extremely hard.
Dudes with Attitude is probably the hardest game I've beaten, unlicensed though.
Quattro Sports Tennis is another hard unlicensed one.
There are some games that are insanely hard, unless you have a walkthrough/guide:
Lemmings is just about impossible without help due to the shitty controls; I only beat it (see my sig) from watching YouTube videos, which makes it easier, but what you have to do is bullshit.
Legacy of the Wizard is nuts. It's pretty challenging even with a walkthrough video. Can't imagine solving it with no help.
In the "Can NA beat every NES game" 2013 & 2014, the only unlicensed games we didn't beat in one of those years were:
Crystal Mines
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
Galactic Crusader
Joshua & The Battle of Jericho
Mig 29 Soviet Fighter
Quattro Arcade
Stunt Kids
Ultimate Stuntman
And some of the Action 52 games (although I think there's only 1 we didn't beat that is beatable)
Some of the hardest games are ones nobody talks about and nobody plays.
People talk about stuff like Ninja Gaiden because they are common and/or good.
^QFT.
Originally posted by: WashYourFace
Quattro Sports Tennis is another hard unlicensed one.
Oddly enough I didn't have too much trouble with that; I think once I found a rhythm on my serve, the rest fell into place. It's certainly a punishing/unforgiving game, though.
Originally posted by: WashYourFace
In the "Can NA beat every NES game" 2013 & 2014, the only unlicensed games we didn't beat in one of those years were:
Crystal Mines
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
I worked on Exodus for a while, but got tired of it around Levels 26-30 when it starts doing that Lolo-esque "let's overwhelm the player with a seemingly impossible start condition" thing. That works OK one level at a time, not so much if you have to play five at once -- and the prospect of needing to beat the last 20 levels in a row was pretty dispiriting.
In the "Can NA beat every NES game" 2013 & 2014, the only unlicensed games we didn't beat in one of those years were:
Crystal Mines
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
I worked on Exodus for a while, but got tired of it around Levels 26-30 when it starts doing that Lolo-esque "let's overwhelm the player with a seemingly impossible start condition" thing. That works OK one level at a time, not so much if you have to play five at once -- and the prospect of needing to beat the last 20 levels in a row was pretty dispiriting.
The code to skip levels for Exodus/Crystal Mines/Joshua is in the manual, so according to our usual rules of "beating" games, it's OK to use it to start at level 80. I can see how people might not count that though.
It gets a bit grueling having to beat 20 in a row in any case.
I think I made it up to level 93 of Crystal Mines and lost patience. It becomes less about figuring out a strategy and more just luck.
Comments
Alot of games back then, and even into the SNES era, were intentionally made hard not so much for the sake of being hard, but to artificially extend the length of the game, since the carts didn't have the capacity to hold a larger game. If you look at most games from back then on paper, they are actually really short, especially compared to whats out there now on modern systems. So they made the games harder to make them feel alot longer, so you felt like you got your money's worth.
This is a common trope, but I cannot accept it. I am curious how many people who say this grew up with these games vs discovering them after, let's say the age of 15.
It's not "articifical". It's "challenging". A game that takes 20-30 hours to master but can be beaten in 45 minutes after that, is worth much more to me than a game that will always take 20-30 hours because it's like watching or being in a movie. The latter game will always be the same. The former has opportunity for variation and can be a different experience each time.
Maybe I should have said it differently, cuz what you said is actually pretty much what I was trying to say lol... That the added difficulty makes alot of games harder to get really good at, which 'extends' the length of the game in that it takes alot more play time to get good enough to actually complete the game the first time or two. But, once you are good at it, you can fly through the game fairly quickly because its actually not all that long, it just takes all that time and practice to get good enough to be able to do it.
I remember when I picked up the first DKC a couple of years ago when I started collecting, it took me a month (maybe 20-25 hrs of actual play time) to get through it once because it had been so long and I was so rusty. But only a few months ago, I played through DKC3 in one sitting because I had the feel for the DKC games back that I had as a kid, the challenge was mostly gone (though the fun wasn't) and I just flew through it in about 3 hours while mildly intoxicated lol.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
He momentum based physics can get saturated and do weird things frequently.
in most games with simple/fake physics, you can make your brain accept the bad physics as normal and adapt.
But games like Gravitar or Solar Jetman try really hard to approximate reality in a way that makes the momentum inuitive IF it is working correctly. When it doesn't it is a special kind of mindfuck.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
Arch_8ngel beat me to it, but yeah, the physics take some getting used to. Not to mention the fact that every planet (each level is its own planet) has its own gravity, which basically means you need to re-learn how to fly your pod every time. This isn't a perfect comparison, but imagine if Mario's running speed and jump height changed from world to world.
I got to the fourth planet, Corso Quero, and got torn to shreds. If I have one issue with this it's that it is NOT a shooter, but certain areas contain respawning enemies that prevent you from making any kind of progress. Individual enemies are pretty weak, but when you dispatch a group fo three only to have another three spawn immediately after, it's impossible to do what you're supposed to be doing, which is towing loot back to your ship. You're vulnerable while you've got an item hitched, so you either have to drop the item to fight (meaningless since stuff respawns almost immediately) or just fly out of there and pray you don't get obliterated while your shields are down.
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
Arch_8ngel beat me to it, but yeah, the physics take some getting used to. Not to mention the fact that every planet (each level is its own planet) has its own gravity, which basically means you need to re-learn how to fly your pod every time. This isn't a perfect comparison, but imagine if Mario's running speed and jump height changed from world to world.
I got to the fourth planet, Corso Quero, and got torn to shreds. If I have one issue with this it's that it is NOT a shooter, but certain areas contain respawning enemies that prevent you from making any kind of progress. Individual enemies are pretty weak, but when you dispatch a group fo three only to have another three spawn immediately after, it's impossible to do what you're supposed to be doing, which is towing loot back to your ship. You're vulnerable while you've got an item hitched, so you either have to drop the item to fight (meaningless since stuff respawns almost immediately) or just fly out of there and pray you don't get obliterated while your shields are down.
Sounds like a huge pain in the ass, lol. I got the cart in a bulk lot last year and have yet to even test it.
I'm really all about Zelda II at the moment. It's consuming my thoughts Nearing the end of the game, with that damn final stretch before the final palace. I'll be happy when this one's done!
I can easily complete "Golden Axe" within the allotted number of continues but I've yet to beat it on a single credit. Again because no extra lives and I always mess up at some point (e.g. the final boss).
I'm on the last section on the run to the final palace in Zelda II, and it's absolutely insane.
Good luck! The Great Palace is a real pain mostly because of how absurdly long it is. Fortunately, there are a couple of spots where you can farm Bots for magic jars to power back up if you're low. Also, avoid the bird-knights as much as possible because they are probably the worst part of that place.
But once you've finished it, the feeling is awesome!
I saw Solar Jetman mentioned in either this thread or one like it recently and got the urge to play it again. I couldn't get past level 3 years ago and I've already done that today not losing a single life. Kinda enjoying it. It's still really challenging but I've somehow gotten the hang of it despite not playing it for years.
I have this game in my shelf, and have never once played it in my life nor put it in my NES. I'll have to give it a shot later to check it out!
What's so difficult about it? I'm sure it will be self-evident when I throw it in
Arch_8ngel beat me to it, but yeah, the physics take some getting used to. Not to mention the fact that every planet (each level is its own planet) has its own gravity, which basically means you need to re-learn how to fly your pod every time. This isn't a perfect comparison, but imagine if Mario's running speed and jump height changed from world to world.
I got to the fourth planet, Corso Quero, and got torn to shreds. If I have one issue with this it's that it is NOT a shooter, but certain areas contain respawning enemies that prevent you from making any kind of progress. Individual enemies are pretty weak, but when you dispatch a group fo three only to have another three spawn immediately after, it's impossible to do what you're supposed to be doing, which is towing loot back to your ship. You're vulnerable while you've got an item hitched, so you either have to drop the item to fight (meaningless since stuff respawns almost immediately) or just fly out of there and pray you don't get obliterated while your shields are down.
Sounds like a huge pain in the ass, lol. I got the cart in a bulk lot last year and have yet to even test it.
I'm really all about Zelda II at the moment. It's consuming my thoughts Nearing the end of the game, with that damn final stretch before the final palace. I'll be happy when this one's done!
Definitely check it out. It's worth a play just because it's so unique. I still pop it in and play through the first planet and a little of the second every so often.
I'm on the last section on the run to the final palace in Zelda II, and it's absolutely insane.
Good luck! The Great Palace is a real pain mostly because of how absurdly long it is. Fortunately, there are a couple of spots where you can farm Bots for magic jars to power back up if you're low. Also, avoid the bird-knights as much as possible because they are probably the worst part of that place.
But once you've finished it, the feeling is awesome!
Yes, the haul is a real pain. I'm not looking forward to the last Palace, lol.
flew through it in about 3 hours while mildly intoxicated lol.
the best way
flew through it in about 3 hours while mildly intoxicated lol.
the best way
People talk about stuff like Ninja Gaiden because they are common and/or good.
Arkanoid seems like it might be the hardest NES game to me. Just insanely fast and too many levels to beat, and nothing that can help you except raw skill/luck.
Ultimate Air Combat is very hard, in fact there are no completion videos on YouTube. If someone can beat it, I wish they would put up a video of it.
Q*Bert is also extremely hard.
Dudes with Attitude is probably the hardest game I've beaten, unlicensed though.
Quattro Sports Tennis is another hard unlicensed one.
There are some games that are insanely hard, unless you have a walkthrough/guide:
Lemmings is just about impossible without help due to the shitty controls; I only beat it (see my sig) from watching YouTube videos, which makes it easier, but what you have to do is bullshit.
Legacy of the Wizard is nuts. It's pretty challenging even with a walkthrough video. Can't imagine solving it with no help.
In the "Can NA beat every NES game" 2013 & 2014, the only unlicensed games we didn't beat in one of those years were:
Crystal Mines
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
Galactic Crusader
Joshua & The Battle of Jericho
Mig 29 Soviet Fighter
Quattro Arcade
Stunt Kids
Ultimate Stuntman
And some of the Action 52 games (although I think there's only 1 we didn't beat that is beatable)
Some of the hardest games are ones nobody talks about and nobody plays.
People talk about stuff like Ninja Gaiden because they are common and/or good.
^QFT.
Quattro Sports Tennis is another hard unlicensed one.
Oddly enough I didn't have too much trouble with that; I think once I found a rhythm on my serve, the rest fell into place. It's certainly a punishing/unforgiving game, though.
In the "Can NA beat every NES game" 2013 & 2014, the only unlicensed games we didn't beat in one of those years were:
Crystal Mines
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
I worked on Exodus for a while, but got tired of it around Levels 26-30 when it starts doing that Lolo-esque "let's overwhelm the player with a seemingly impossible start condition" thing. That works OK one level at a time, not so much if you have to play five at once -- and the prospect of needing to beat the last 20 levels in a row was pretty dispiriting.
In the "Can NA beat every NES game" 2013 & 2014, the only unlicensed games we didn't beat in one of those years were:
Crystal Mines
Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
I worked on Exodus for a while, but got tired of it around Levels 26-30 when it starts doing that Lolo-esque "let's overwhelm the player with a seemingly impossible start condition" thing. That works OK one level at a time, not so much if you have to play five at once -- and the prospect of needing to beat the last 20 levels in a row was pretty dispiriting.
The code to skip levels for Exodus/Crystal Mines/Joshua is in the manual, so according to our usual rules of "beating" games, it's OK to use it to start at level 80. I can see how people might not count that though.
It gets a bit grueling having to beat 20 in a row in any case.
I think I made it up to level 93 of Crystal Mines and lost patience. It becomes less about figuring out a strategy and more just luck.
1. Glitches that make it difficult to proceed
2. Number of lives/continues allowed
3. Amount of damage that can be taken before dying
4. Controls
5. Number of stages/levels
6. Complexity (stage layout, enemy placement, number of controller inputs required in a short amount of time to proceed, etc.)
7. Variables (unpredictability, no matter how well you know the game)
8. Overall willingness to put up with any or all of the above to beat or excel in the game