I've been following this thread since you updated with the theft. Ridiculous. Saved some of David's instagram photos before he mass deleted-hid everything. Figured once you got everything resolved on your end I'd make a warning video about the facebook gambling groups - since I think this is the second time a scandal has arisen out of a high priced game. Yes they're illegal gambling but it appears they're also being used to fence stolen games. Fucking awful.
Daria, do you mind perhaps uploading the photos and posting a public link here? It would be very useful for all parties involved as well as potential future victims HaynHammah has yet to scam, if evidence of his misdeeds are available online.
I am nearly positive Pheidian is not the first person to be ripped off in this scam.
I also would like to add as stated here that i can accept you come clean with fraud with paypal officially to support all my evidence. Cancelling the claim just shows me that you are now scared of the police of what you have done and cancelling it makes it go away.
It is not some mistake to cancel here. You also stated in the claim that the box has been verified by multiple store owners to it being a fake box. I wonder who these people are that gave that statement on obviously legit box.
Yeah he's probably scared shitless right now. I would be too. Felony conviction could ruin a man for life, but as the old saying goes, you reap what you sow.
I've been following this thread since you updated with the theft. Ridiculous. Saved some of David's instagram photos before he mass deleted-hid everything. Figured once you got everything resolved on your end I'd make a warning video about the facebook gambling groups - since I think this is the second time a scandal has arisen out of a high priced game. Yes they're illegal gambling but it appears they're also being used to fence stolen games. Fucking awful.
Daria, do you mind perhaps uploading the photos and posting a public link here? It would be very useful for all parties involved as well as potential future victims HaynHammah has yet to scam, if evidence of his misdeeds are available online.
I am nearly positive Pheidian is not the first person to be ripped off in this scam.
When the buyer said the box was fake, HaynHammah believed that it was fake at that point as well. Hence the claim, since he thought he had bought a fake box at that point.
I still don't buy that. You drop $2100 on a game, it comes into your possession, you don't look it over to prove it authentic, and suddenly you take the word of some stranger that won it for like $10 or whatever that it's fake?
The buyer claimed the box was fake for reasons this guy didn't know or notice before (smell, marking, etc). According to this theory the game's authenticity was never in dispute. The fake game was not part of the dispute between the would-be scammer and the raffle winner.
Game, box, doesn't matter. You get a $2100 gaming item in your possession, you make sure it's real on the spot, or you're failing at life. If some jerkwad then claims it's fake, you tell them to pound sand.
100% right on, but it sounds like the reasons brought to his attention weren't the usual reasons that he would have looked for before, especially in light of the legit manual and cartridge (smelling the box?). The power of suggestion seemed to take it from there and probably played a part in the other places agreeing that it was fake (if there's any truth to that).
What I don't get is if the raffle winner got this game and manual for like $10... why is he complaining if he suspects the box is a fake? He more than got his money's worth. It would be different if that person had spent $2000 and then thought they got a fake. For $10 just take what you get.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone believes him. Pathological liars will lie thru their teeth.
I'm almost positive he can't "cancel" a claim that was already decided in his favor. It is up to Paypal to grant the appeal and the original buyer cannot affect it unless the dispute is in the processing status.
The buyer would have to send Pheidan the money back out of his own Paypal account, unless Paypal allows the seller to win the appeal (which they should).
For the buyer to say "it was cancelled" is just another lie as far as I'm concerned.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Even if I were to believe that, it still doesn't explain this:
Originally posted by: Buyatari
One problem I have is this.
The buyer just happened to have a fake F2 cartridge sitting there on hand to send back ?
He owns a fake F2 cart but then buys a real one CIB to raffle off.
kingkoswyn, I get the sense that you're trying to soften what HaynHammah did by suggesting he did this in response to getting it called fake (when it wasn't, unless he scammed that guy, too) under the guise of getting us to "understand why he did it."
I don't think it had a thing to do with HaynHammah scamming Phiedian, even if it were true. Your response to getting called a fake is to scam the dude who sold you the real one?
100% right on, but it sounds like the reasons brought to his attention weren't the usual reasons that he would have looked for before, especially in light of the legit manual and cartridge (smelling the box?). The power of suggestion seemed to take it from there and probably played a part in the other places agreeing that it was fake (if there's any truth to that).
Which is why you should thorougly document that it is real. If I had a real F2 box and sold it, I'd have all the proof that it was legit for this specific situation. If someone told me it smells funny, I'd tell them to stick it up their ass, that'll change the smell.
But then, I guess if your response to getting called out as a scam is to scam the guy you bought it from in the first place, you aren't right in the head to begin with. That I'll agree with.
What I don't get is if the raffle winner got this game and manual for like $10... why is he complaining if he suspects the box is a fake? He more than got his money's worth. It would be different if that person had spent $2000 and then thought they got a fake. For $10 just take what you get.
Maybe I'm in the minority on that viewpoint.
I think they can buy more slots for a higher chance at winning. Maybe they think they calculated the risk vs reward to decide how much, but if that were true then they wouldn't play games of chance! The total paid by the entrants must be more than the total paid for the carts, so the stated authenticity and value must still be legit to satisfy all entrants whether they won or not.
Like the lottery, raffles are a stupid tax. I can only sympathize a little bit. They only deserve sympathy for being stupid if they can't help it.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Even if I were to believe that, it still doesn't explain this:
Originally posted by: Buyatari
One problem I have is this.
The buyer just happened to have a fake F2 cartridge sitting there on hand to send back ?
He owns a fake F2 cart but then buys a real one CIB to raffle off.
kingkoswyn, I get the sense that you're trying to soften what HaynHammah did by suggesting he did this in response to getting it called fake (when it wasn't, unless he scammed that guy, too) under the guise of getting us to "understand why he did it."
I don't think it had a thing to do with HaynHammah scamming Phiedian, even if it were true. Your response to getting called a fake is to scam the dude who sold you the real one?
I'm not trying to soften the decision by HAynHammah to scam. A scam is a scam. Just laying out some of the facts.
And there was 16 days between filing the claim and mailing back to Pheidian the fake. Plenty of time to buy a fake game.
I'm not trying to soften the decision by HAynHammah to scam. A scam is a scam. Just laying out some of the facts.
I just don't see how the fact of the other guy calling the box a fake matters. Who cares? It begins and ends with him scamming Phiedian.
It matters in the sense that if the raffle winner hadn't claimed fake, this other guy wouldn't have scammed OP to recoup the money. I'm not saying any of that is right, but that is why the one point was being brought up. But I guess if you're dealing with games this expensive, you should be knowledgeable enough to know when something is legit or not. So it still falls squarely on Hayn or whatever is name is.
Guys, if this guy is willing to scam in the first place, what makes you think that the "raffle winner" was a legit 3rd party and not one of his buddies or a dupe account?
Kingcoswyn, you say you have screen shots, but I'd like to know if the content of those shots is still readily viewable? Or did any and all evidence of the interaction get erased? (I'm genuinely asking)
If the guy is willing to scam someone for a couple grand, then you can bet your ass he's fixing his raffles as well. It's one of the easies scams to run, and it blows my mind how many people are willing to participate in that crap. (But that's another topic for another time)
I just don't get how we're supposed to believe anything he says when the first post he made here, he basically accused Phiedian (by saying he wasn't accusing him) of staging the opening of the box. Then stated he has integrity.
The fact that he wrote that, and then now admits to sending the fake games tells me nothing he says can be trusted.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Do we know for sure the raffle winner isn't either a shill or somebody working in cahoots with him? You seem close to the guy in question, so it's possible if he's a pathological liar, he may have gained your trust by lying to you and you don't want to believe you were duped.
It's not that I don't trust your story. I believe you are genuine and not fabricating any information you have regarding this case, but understand there is a real possibility you have been fed lies by David and believed him because you consider him to be a friend. Pathological liars often lie so much that they begin to genuinely believe their own lies, and often may convince friends and family that they are in the right despite contrary evidence.
Originally posted by: Br81zad
Guys, if this guy is willing to scam in the first place, what makes you think that the "raffle winner" was a legit 3rd party and not one of his buddies or a dupe account?
Kingcoswyn, you say you have screen shots, but I'd like to know if the content of those shots is still readily viewable? Or did any and all evidence of the interaction get erased? (I'm genuinely asking)
If the guy is willing to scam someone for a couple grand, then you can bet your ass he's fixing his raffles as well. It's one of the easies scams to run, and it blows my mind how many people are willing to participate in that crap. (But that's another topic for another time)
This.
Originally posted by: futureman
I just don't get how we're supposed to believe anything he says when the first post he made here, he basically accused Phiedian (by saying he wasn't accusing him) of staging the opening of the box. Then stated he has integrity.
The fact that he wrote that, and then now admits to sending the fake games tells me nothing he says can be trusted.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Do we know for sure the raffle winner isn't either a shill or somebody working in cahoots with him? You seem close to the guy in question, so it's possible if he's a pathological liar, he may have gained your trust by lying to you and you don't want to believe you were duped.
It's not that I don't trust your story. I believe you are genuine and not fabricating any information you have regarding this case, but understand there is a real possibility you have been fed lies by David and believed him because you consider him to be a friend. Pathological liars often lie so much that they begin to genuinely believe their own lies, and often may convince friends and family that they are in the right despite contrary evidence.
The thing is, we haven't seen contrary evidence against the raffle buyer ransom explaination and we have seen evidence supporting that story. Occam's Razor. The simplest answer that leaves the fewest questions, however unlikely, is almost always the truth.
Originally posted by: Br81zad
Guys, if this guy is willing to scam in the first place, what makes you think that the "raffle winner" was a legit 3rd party and not one of his buddies or a dupe account?
Kingcoswyn, you say you have screen shots, but I'd like to know if the content of those shots is still readily viewable? Or did any and all evidence of the interaction get erased? (I'm genuinely asking)
If the guy is willing to scam someone for a couple grand, then you can bet your ass he's fixing his raffles as well. It's one of the easies scams to run, and it blows my mind how many people are willing to participate in that crap. (But that's another topic for another time)
Because that doesn't make sense and involving a shill raffle only hurts his ability to get away with the PayPal claim. It explains all of the weird behavior and the timeframe. He's scamming, no doubt, but there's still currently no reason I'm aware of to think that the raffle buyer was.
Genuinely confused by this logic. Let's be rational and logical about it. Emotional/knee-jerk assumptions aren't helpful. Please give a better explaination for us all to consider. There's plenty of reason to think the raffle winner was legit, even if the raffles are scummy and illegal (most participants don't seem to realize it).
It makes perfect sense. you are just giving the scammers story way too much merit.
It doesn't make a bit of sense. I'm giving our colllective deduction merit. The scammer didn't even tell us that and he out-right hid it.
It explains why he has raffles high-value games before and people have received them without complaints.
It explains why he waited so long to file the PayPal claim and only had the box.
It explains why he sent the real box.
It explains why he DIDN'T send the real game or manual.
It explains why the raffle was witnessed.
It explains why he would register here and try to salvage a reputation instead of just running away with the loot.
It explains a lot more than that. Imagining it happened differently only means we have no explanation for even more seemingly-inexplicable things. Almost every part of what he did only made things worse for a PayPal claim. I mean: Why involve a fake raffle at all when they are ILLEGAL and only complicate the claim with PayPal?! We can't just ignore that and dismiss without proposing a better explanation.
Never trust a con man, CZroe. That's your first mistake.
The second mistake is not following the simplest logical explanation: The raffle winner is a ruse intended to give the scammer an "out". A chance for the scammer to pass off the blame of any wrongdoing. We aren't dealing with a casual game trader, this guy knows the high dollar items, how to identify them, how to maximize his return, and how to play the various systems involved (PayPal in this case).
The only thing that makes sense AT ALL, is that the raffle winner is a dupe account ran by the scammer himself, or it's a 2nd player who's in on the con.
It makes perfect sense. you are just giving the scammers story way too much merit.
So you label our opinions as: "Emotional/knee-jerk assumptions" because you don't agree with them? Nice.
I've read this thread numerous times, as has most of the mod squad.
You keep making statements like "it makes perfect sense" without answering any of the questions that scenario brings back. Sorry, but that's not convincing.
Originally posted by: Br81zad
Never trust a con man, CZroe. That's your first mistake.
The second mistake is not following the simplest logical explanation: The raffle winner is a ruse intended to give the scammer an "out". A chance for the scammer to pass off the blame of any wrongdoing. We aren't dealing with a casual game trader, this guy knows the high dollar items, how to identify them, how to maximize his return, and how to play the various systems involved (PayPal in this case).
The only thing that makes sense AT ALL, is that the raffle winner is a dupe account ran by the scammer himself, or it's a 2nd player who's in on the con.
I don't trust him. It didn't even come from him. Also, it doesn't give him an "out" at all. Even with that story, the raffle operator is the only scammer. He's still the one who scammed in both scenarios.
Game wheel organizer pre-selects the winner of the raffle, such that both the contest organizer, the winner, and the "trusted 3rd party" (who supposedly uses a random number generator to decide a winner) are all in on the scam and are either (A) all the same individual, or (B) splitting the profits in such a way that the organizer keeps the game and everyone involved takes their cut. There is a reason why raffles are heavily regulated and are in most states illegal unless run by a non-profit organization.
HaynHannah / David / whatever you call him at some point decided that the easy money he was making off his forged game wheel wasn't enough, and decided he was entitled to a refund for the game he purchased to get this "easy money" for the game wheel. Then after he won the Paypal claim, he went a step further and decided he wanted to simply keep the game and the refund money. His greed was his own downfall. Had he stuck to the original game wheel scam, occasionally releasing lower tier prizes to legit participants so that people believe they have a chance when bidding on the big ticket stuff, then he could still continue raking in ill gotten funds and outsiders would be none-the-wiser.
Instead he pushed his luck, and as everyone knows, when you gamble, you sometimes lose. A conviction for felony theft and illegal gambling/racketeering, (and perhaps a few months in the big house) would be justice served.
Comments
I've been following this thread since you updated with the theft. Ridiculous. Saved some of David's instagram photos before he mass deleted-hid everything. Figured once you got everything resolved on your end I'd make a warning video about the facebook gambling groups - since I think this is the second time a scandal has arisen out of a high priced game. Yes they're illegal gambling but it appears they're also being used to fence stolen games. Fucking awful.
Daria, do you mind perhaps uploading the photos and posting a public link here? It would be very useful for all parties involved as well as potential future victims HaynHammah has yet to scam, if evidence of his misdeeds are available online.
I am nearly positive Pheidian is not the first person to be ripped off in this scam.
http://imgur.com/a/on6qZ...
I only grabbed the two - one of his face, the other of the tattoo.
Um, how is that relavent? Sorry, I thought you meant the photos posted in the game wheel...
I also would like to add as stated here that i can accept you come clean with fraud with paypal officially to support all my evidence. Cancelling the claim just shows me that you are now scared of the police of what you have done and cancelling it makes it go away.
It is not some mistake to cancel here. You also stated in the claim that the box has been verified by multiple store owners to it being a fake box. I wonder who these people are that gave that statement on obviously legit box.
Yeah he's probably scared shitless right now. I would be too. Felony conviction could ruin a man for life, but as the old saying goes, you reap what you sow.
I've been following this thread since you updated with the theft. Ridiculous. Saved some of David's instagram photos before he mass deleted-hid everything. Figured once you got everything resolved on your end I'd make a warning video about the facebook gambling groups - since I think this is the second time a scandal has arisen out of a high priced game. Yes they're illegal gambling but it appears they're also being used to fence stolen games. Fucking awful.
Daria, do you mind perhaps uploading the photos and posting a public link here? It would be very useful for all parties involved as well as potential future victims HaynHammah has yet to scam, if evidence of his misdeeds are available online.
I am nearly positive Pheidian is not the first person to be ripped off in this scam.
http://imgur.com/a/on6qZ
I only grabbed the two - one of his face, the other of the tattoo.
Um, how is that relavent? Sorry, I thought you meant the photos posted in the game wheel...
They are intended to identify him should he pop back up in other circles. That's why she only needed those two.
When the buyer said the box was fake, HaynHammah believed that it was fake at that point as well. Hence the claim, since he thought he had bought a fake box at that point.
I still don't buy that. You drop $2100 on a game, it comes into your possession, you don't look it over to prove it authentic, and suddenly you take the word of some stranger that won it for like $10 or whatever that it's fake?
The buyer claimed the box was fake for reasons this guy didn't know or notice before (smell, marking, etc). According to this theory the game's authenticity was never in dispute. The fake game was not part of the dispute between the would-be scammer and the raffle winner.
Game, box, doesn't matter. You get a $2100 gaming item in your possession, you make sure it's real on the spot, or you're failing at life. If some jerkwad then claims it's fake, you tell them to pound sand.
100% right on, but it sounds like the reasons brought to his attention weren't the usual reasons that he would have looked for before, especially in light of the legit manual and cartridge (smelling the box?). The power of suggestion seemed to take it from there and probably played a part in the other places agreeing that it was fake (if there's any truth to that).
Maybe I'm in the minority on that viewpoint.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
I'm almost positive he can't "cancel" a claim that was already decided in his favor. It is up to Paypal to grant the appeal and the original buyer cannot affect it unless the dispute is in the processing status.
The buyer would have to send Pheidan the money back out of his own Paypal account, unless Paypal allows the seller to win the appeal (which they should).
For the buyer to say "it was cancelled" is just another lie as far as I'm concerned.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Even if I were to believe that, it still doesn't explain this:
One problem I have is this.
The buyer just happened to have a fake F2 cartridge sitting there on hand to send back ?
He owns a fake F2 cart but then buys a real one CIB to raffle off.
kingkoswyn, I get the sense that you're trying to soften what HaynHammah did by suggesting he did this in response to getting it called fake (when it wasn't, unless he scammed that guy, too) under the guise of getting us to "understand why he did it."
I don't think it had a thing to do with HaynHammah scamming Phiedian, even if it were true. Your response to getting called a fake is to scam the dude who sold you the real one?
100% right on, but it sounds like the reasons brought to his attention weren't the usual reasons that he would have looked for before, especially in light of the legit manual and cartridge (smelling the box?). The power of suggestion seemed to take it from there and probably played a part in the other places agreeing that it was fake (if there's any truth to that).
Which is why you should thorougly document that it is real. If I had a real F2 box and sold it, I'd have all the proof that it was legit for this specific situation. If someone told me it smells funny, I'd tell them to stick it up their ass, that'll change the smell.
But then, I guess if your response to getting called out as a scam is to scam the guy you bought it from in the first place, you aren't right in the head to begin with. That I'll agree with.
What I don't get is if the raffle winner got this game and manual for like $10... why is he complaining if he suspects the box is a fake? He more than got his money's worth. It would be different if that person had spent $2000 and then thought they got a fake. For $10 just take what you get.
Maybe I'm in the minority on that viewpoint.
I think they can buy more slots for a higher chance at winning. Maybe they think they calculated the risk vs reward to decide how much, but if that were true then they wouldn't play games of chance! The total paid by the entrants must be more than the total paid for the carts, so the stated authenticity and value must still be legit to satisfy all entrants whether they won or not.
Like the lottery, raffles are a stupid tax. I can only sympathize a little bit. They only deserve sympathy for being stupid if they can't help it.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Even if I were to believe that, it still doesn't explain this:
One problem I have is this.
The buyer just happened to have a fake F2 cartridge sitting there on hand to send back ?
He owns a fake F2 cart but then buys a real one CIB to raffle off.
kingkoswyn, I get the sense that you're trying to soften what HaynHammah did by suggesting he did this in response to getting it called fake (when it wasn't, unless he scammed that guy, too) under the guise of getting us to "understand why he did it."
I don't think it had a thing to do with HaynHammah scamming Phiedian, even if it were true. Your response to getting called a fake is to scam the dude who sold you the real one?
I'm not trying to soften the decision by HAynHammah to scam. A scam is a scam. Just laying out some of the facts.
And there was 16 days between filing the claim and mailing back to Pheidian the fake. Plenty of time to buy a fake game.
I'm not trying to soften the decision by HAynHammah to scam. A scam is a scam. Just laying out some of the facts.
I just don't see how the fact of the other guy calling the box a fake matters. Who cares? It begins and ends with him scamming Phiedian.
I'm not trying to soften the decision by HAynHammah to scam. A scam is a scam. Just laying out some of the facts.
I just don't see how the fact of the other guy calling the box a fake matters. Who cares? It begins and ends with him scamming Phiedian.
It matters in the sense that if the raffle winner hadn't claimed fake, this other guy wouldn't have scammed OP to recoup the money. I'm not saying any of that is right, but that is why the one point was being brought up. But I guess if you're dealing with games this expensive, you should be knowledgeable enough to know when something is legit or not. So it still falls squarely on Hayn or whatever is name is.
It matters in the sense that if the raffle winner hadn't claimed fake, this other guy wouldn't have scammed OP to recoup the money.
Yeah, I don't buy it. If you're response to that is to scam the first person, you're enough of a crook that you were going to do it anyway.
Might as well say HaynHammah had a bad burrito that afternoon that motivated him to scam Phiedian. He is recouping the cost of the burrito.
Kingcoswyn, you say you have screen shots, but I'd like to know if the content of those shots is still readily viewable? Or did any and all evidence of the interaction get erased? (I'm genuinely asking)
If the guy is willing to scam someone for a couple grand, then you can bet your ass he's fixing his raffles as well. It's one of the easies scams to run, and it blows my mind how many people are willing to participate in that crap. (But that's another topic for another time)
The fact that he wrote that, and then now admits to sending the fake games tells me nothing he says can be trusted.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Do we know for sure the raffle winner isn't either a shill or somebody working in cahoots with him? You seem close to the guy in question, so it's possible if he's a pathological liar, he may have gained your trust by lying to you and you don't want to believe you were duped.
It's not that I don't trust your story. I believe you are genuine and not fabricating any information you have regarding this case, but understand there is a real possibility you have been fed lies by David and believed him because you consider him to be a friend. Pathological liars often lie so much that they begin to genuinely believe their own lies, and often may convince friends and family that they are in the right despite contrary evidence.
Guys, if this guy is willing to scam in the first place, what makes you think that the "raffle winner" was a legit 3rd party and not one of his buddies or a dupe account?
Kingcoswyn, you say you have screen shots, but I'd like to know if the content of those shots is still readily viewable? Or did any and all evidence of the interaction get erased? (I'm genuinely asking)
If the guy is willing to scam someone for a couple grand, then you can bet your ass he's fixing his raffles as well. It's one of the easies scams to run, and it blows my mind how many people are willing to participate in that crap. (But that's another topic for another time)
This.
I just don't get how we're supposed to believe anything he says when the first post he made here, he basically accused Phiedian (by saying he wasn't accusing him) of staging the opening of the box. Then stated he has integrity.
The fact that he wrote that, and then now admits to sending the fake games tells me nothing he says can be trusted.
+1.
Guys, be realistic. The "raffle winner" saying it was fake is a completely fabricated story in his effort to pull off this scam.
He got caught, and the value of the item pushes this into felony status, which is serious business. So now he's backtracking and trying to weasel out of the situation. Don't believe a word he says, and in the meantime, Pheidian keep pursuing police action and get that report translated to English by a court recognized translating service. Until money is back in your account, don't even entertain the idea of letting him off.
The raffle winner saying it is fake isn't fabricated. I have screenshots verifying this.
Do we know for sure the raffle winner isn't either a shill or somebody working in cahoots with him? You seem close to the guy in question, so it's possible if he's a pathological liar, he may have gained your trust by lying to you and you don't want to believe you were duped.
It's not that I don't trust your story. I believe you are genuine and not fabricating any information you have regarding this case, but understand there is a real possibility you have been fed lies by David and believed him because you consider him to be a friend. Pathological liars often lie so much that they begin to genuinely believe their own lies, and often may convince friends and family that they are in the right despite contrary evidence.
The thing is, we haven't seen contrary evidence against the raffle buyer ransom explaination and we have seen evidence supporting that story. Occam's Razor. The simplest answer that leaves the fewest questions, however unlikely, is almost always the truth.
Guys, if this guy is willing to scam in the first place, what makes you think that the "raffle winner" was a legit 3rd party and not one of his buddies or a dupe account?
Kingcoswyn, you say you have screen shots, but I'd like to know if the content of those shots is still readily viewable? Or did any and all evidence of the interaction get erased? (I'm genuinely asking)
If the guy is willing to scam someone for a couple grand, then you can bet your ass he's fixing his raffles as well. It's one of the easies scams to run, and it blows my mind how many people are willing to participate in that crap. (But that's another topic for another time)
Because that doesn't make sense and involving a shill raffle only hurts his ability to get away with the PayPal claim. It explains all of the weird behavior and the timeframe. He's scamming, no doubt, but there's still currently no reason I'm aware of to think that the raffle buyer was.
Raffle winner is 100% involved in the scam if he is using information the "winner" provided as a defense.
???
This doesn't make sense. If the raffle buyer genuinely thought it was fake and convinced others, he's simply wrong. There's a big difference.
The raffle holder is the scammer here.
VGD is correct
Because...?
Genuinely confused by this logic. Let's be rational and logical about it. Emotional/knee-jerk assumptions aren't helpful. Please give a better explaination for us all to consider. There's plenty of reason to think the raffle winner was legit, even if the raffles are scummy and illegal (most participants don't seem to realize it).
So you label our opinions as: "Emotional/knee-jerk assumptions" because you don't agree with them? Nice.
I've read this thread numerous times, as has most of the mod squad.
It makes perfect sense. you are just giving the scammers story way too much merit.
It doesn't make a bit of sense. I'm giving our colllective deduction merit. The scammer didn't even tell us that and he out-right hid it.
It explains why he has raffles high-value games before and people have received them without complaints.
It explains why he waited so long to file the PayPal claim and only had the box.
It explains why he sent the real box.
It explains why he DIDN'T send the real game or manual.
It explains why the raffle was witnessed.
It explains why he would register here and try to salvage a reputation instead of just running away with the loot.
It explains a lot more than that. Imagining it happened differently only means we have no explanation for even more seemingly-inexplicable things. Almost every part of what he did only made things worse for a PayPal claim. I mean: Why involve a fake raffle at all when they are ILLEGAL and only complicate the claim with PayPal?! We can't just ignore that and dismiss without proposing a better explanation.
The second mistake is not following the simplest logical explanation: The raffle winner is a ruse intended to give the scammer an "out". A chance for the scammer to pass off the blame of any wrongdoing. We aren't dealing with a casual game trader, this guy knows the high dollar items, how to identify them, how to maximize his return, and how to play the various systems involved (PayPal in this case).
The only thing that makes sense AT ALL, is that the raffle winner is a dupe account ran by the scammer himself, or it's a 2nd player who's in on the con.
It makes perfect sense. you are just giving the scammers story way too much merit.
So you label our opinions as: "Emotional/knee-jerk assumptions" because you don't agree with them? Nice.
I've read this thread numerous times, as has most of the mod squad.
You keep making statements like "it makes perfect sense" without answering any of the questions that scenario brings back. Sorry, but that's not convincing.
Never trust a con man, CZroe. That's your first mistake.
The second mistake is not following the simplest logical explanation: The raffle winner is a ruse intended to give the scammer an "out". A chance for the scammer to pass off the blame of any wrongdoing. We aren't dealing with a casual game trader, this guy knows the high dollar items, how to identify them, how to maximize his return, and how to play the various systems involved (PayPal in this case).
The only thing that makes sense AT ALL, is that the raffle winner is a dupe account ran by the scammer himself, or it's a 2nd player who's in on the con.
I don't trust him. It didn't even come from him. Also, it doesn't give him an "out" at all. Even with that story, the raffle operator is the only scammer. He's still the one who scammed in both scenarios.
Game wheel organizer pre-selects the winner of the raffle, such that both the contest organizer, the winner, and the "trusted 3rd party" (who supposedly uses a random number generator to decide a winner) are all in on the scam and are either (A) all the same individual, or (B) splitting the profits in such a way that the organizer keeps the game and everyone involved takes their cut. There is a reason why raffles are heavily regulated and are in most states illegal unless run by a non-profit organization.
HaynHannah / David / whatever you call him at some point decided that the easy money he was making off his forged game wheel wasn't enough, and decided he was entitled to a refund for the game he purchased to get this "easy money" for the game wheel. Then after he won the Paypal claim, he went a step further and decided he wanted to simply keep the game and the refund money. His greed was his own downfall. Had he stuck to the original game wheel scam, occasionally releasing lower tier prizes to legit participants so that people believe they have a chance when bidding on the big ticket stuff, then he could still continue raking in ill gotten funds and outsiders would be none-the-wiser.
Instead he pushed his luck, and as everyone knows, when you gamble, you sometimes lose. A conviction for felony theft and illegal gambling/racketeering, (and perhaps a few months in the big house) would be justice served.
For now though, I'd suggest you stop wasting your time defending someone who ripped off a good standing and trust worthy community member for $2000+