Seriously? That kickstarter book that had unofficial right in the title was stopped by nintendo? When Konami stopped Hardcore Gaming 101 from releasing a castlevania book they were able to re-release it after they added unofficial to the title. I thought that would fix everything.
Seriously? That kickstarter book that had unofficial right in the title was stopped by nintendo? When Konami stopped Hardcore Gaming 101 from releasing a castlevania book they were able to re-release it after they added unofficial to the title. I thought that would fix everything.
Holy crap, they apparently got the takedown reversed!?
When I was looking for preorders for the nes mini,I came across that. $44.95! If it covered all of the library I'd be cool with that,but I'll pass on it for now and wait for the price to drop or go on clearance.
$45 for that?! What the hell...I mean it looks wicked and I'd buy it...but not at that price. If I can find it for $20 a few years from now I might grab it lol...but $45 and they only cover 17 games...lame.
I'd much rather have 17 games in depth than 700+ games with a half page blurb.
You know, I actually agree with this. I'm more interested in the other excerpts, ads, hand-drawn maps, and other content. It is supposedly 320 pages, so regardless of how many games it covers, there has to be some interesting stuff in there. It isn't really an 'either-or' thing for me, I mean both concepts are interesting, but personally I am actually more interested to see the extra content in this book.
Also, a 320-page hardcover official book for $27, isn't bad. It won't be for everyone, but it sounds like some will definitely find enjoyment from it.
When I was looking for preorders for the nes mini,I came across that. $44.95! If it covered all of the library I'd be cool with that,but I'll pass on it for now and wait for the price to drop or go on clearance.
$45 for that?! What the hell...I mean it looks wicked and I'd buy it...but not at that price. If I can find it for $20 a few years from now I might grab it lol...but $45 and they only cover 17 games...lame.
That's the listed price for it on Gamestop's website. Definitely go Amazon on this one. $27 is definitely not a bad price for it.
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
After reading that,I no
longer want that book so thank you for saving me from disappointment!
How can you not go in depth on the game that started it all?! Let me guess,that book is mainly a OoT lovefest.
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
After reading that,I no
longer want that book so thank you for saving me from disappointment!
How can you not go in depth on the game that started it all?! Let me guess,that book is mainly a OoT lovefest.
I forget to be honest, but I think it was Skyward Sword that they gushed over. I borrowed it from the library, scanned those two pages at home as I wanted the LoZ design document in my files, and then forgot about it. I also forgot to take it off my Amazon wishlist, so my wife bought it for me for Christmas. It has sat on the bookshelf sealed ever since. She tries so hard, it's endearing .
That is what bothers me about a lot of these books, all pictures and no substance. Text and pictures can be great, but the text needs to be decent (and yeah, I'll take crap for that later, but it is true). Or they limit themselves to brief descriptions and try to cover too much ground, which means that an in depth look at seventeen games might end up being pretty decent. However, where are the full examinations of things? The best video game history books are all almost a decade old now, some close to thirty, and no one seems interested in writing new ones despite the sea of new information that could support them. Off my lawn and all that stuff.
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
After reading that,I no
longer want that book so thank you for saving me from disappointment!
How can you not go in depth on the game that started it all?! Let me guess,that book is mainly a OoT lovefest.
I forget to be honest, but I think it was Skyward Sword that they gushed over. I borrowed it from the library, scanned those two pages at home as I wanted the LoZ design document in my files, and then forgot about it. I also forgot to take it off my Amazon wishlist, so my wife bought it for me for Christmas. It has sat on the bookshelf sealed ever since. She tries so hard, it's endearing .
That is what bothers me about a lot of these books, all pictures and no substance. Text and pictures can be great, but the text needs to be decent (and yeah, I'll take crap for that later, but it is true). Or they limit themselves to brief descriptions and try to cover too much ground, which means that an in depth look at seventeen games might end up being pretty decent. However, where are the full examinations of things? The best video game history books are all almost a decade old now, some close to thirty, and no one seems interested in writing new ones despite the sea of new information that could support them. Off my lawn and all that stuff.
I would have bought it based off of the first three games,especially the first,but if those are under represented and the newer ones over represented,then no thanks.
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
I'd buy a copy if it were really cheap,otherwise I'm good saving my money for something else.
17 games seems rather short indeed but if there's technical data, images, schemes, memorabilia about those games, I think it'll be a very interesting piece. I don't need another NES list with barely a couple of images and a generic text paragraph that adds nothing valuable.
Woudn't be surprised either if this becomes a book series.
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
Amazon's description promised such things as: unparalleled historical information, never-before-seen concept art, the full history of Hyrule, and history, history, history. Even if it was intended to discuss the history of Hyrule as a world, and not as a game, why did they bother to include design documents and other things.
Thanks for the link on the current book, I'll take the plunge at that price. As much as I am tired of these coffee table books and light treatments, this one has some blind potential simply due to its reduced scope and higher page count.
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
Amazon's description promised such things as: unparalleled historical information, never-before-seen concept art, the full history of Hyrule, and history, history, history. Even if it was intended to discuss the history of Hyrule as a world, and not as a game, why did they bother to include design documents and other things.
Thanks for the link on the current book, I'll take the plunge at that price. As much as I am tired of these coffee table books and light treatments, this one has some blind potential simply due to its reduced scope and higher page count.
Still, it's Prima, and they've never made anything good.
As Beau mentioned, the kickstarter for the Visual Compendium book wasn't "shut down." It was just delayed while they worked out some details with Nintendo. They had to double the amount of text per page and take the official seal off the cover (which wasn't really going to be in the book anyway).
That book will be tons better than this one. Kickstarter is over now (way past fully funded) but I'm sure there will be ways to buy it after it's printed. I think they are shooting for January or February.
As Beau mentioned, the kickstarter for the Visual Compendium book wasn't "shut down." It was just delayed while they worked out some details with Nintendo. They had to double the amount of text per page and take the official seal off the cover (which wasn't really going to be in the book anyway).
That book will be tons better than this one. Kickstarter is over now (way past fully funded) but I'm sure there will be ways to buy it after it's printed. I think they are shooting for January or February.
Pat and Ian review 750 NES games! I don't think a more complete anthology has been written for any system! To me that is worth more than a picture book. Really bummed I slept through this Kickstarter, however I am hoping it becomes available for other Joes to pick up later. My only gripe, albeit a minor one, was they could have thrown in a few Famicom exclusives as I have a soft spot for imports, but as it stands nothing this complete has existed before or since.
As Beau mentioned, the kickstarter for the Visual Compendium book wasn't "shut down." It was just delayed while they worked out some details with Nintendo. They had to double the amount of text per page and take the official seal off the cover (which wasn't really going to be in the book anyway).
That book will be tons better than this one. Kickstarter is over now (way past fully funded) but I'm sure there will be ways to buy it after it's printed. I think they are shooting for January or February.
Pat and Ian review 750 NES games! I don't think a more complete anthology has been written for any system! To me that is worth more than a picture book. Really bummed I slept through this Kickstarter, however I am hoping it becomes available for other Joes to pick up later. My only gripe, albeit a minor one, was they could have thrown in a few Famicom exclusives as I have a soft spot for imports, but as it stands nothing this complete has existed before or since.
Honestly I don't have much interest in this book or any other type of review book. Reviews have been done to death. Give me something I haven't seen before. Conceptual sketches,personal notes from the creators,funny stories,....stuff you can only get from the source. Nothing wrong with this book and others like it,it's just that I'd rather have the stuff mentioned earlier than some fan's take on these games. I can get that on NA,gamefaqs,or youtube.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Exactly! Me being a former art major,I usually swoon over the video game artbooks....especially Rockman/Mega Man ones like the 20th and 25th anniversary ones. Those are amazing and my favorites!
I wish they had a similar artbook for Castlevania or just for Konami in general. That would be equally amazing.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Exactly! Me being a former art major,I usually swoon over the video game artbooks....especially Rockman/Mega Man ones like the 20th and 25th anniversary ones. Those are amazing and my favorites!
I wish they had a similar artbook for Castlevania or just for Konami in general. That would be equally amazing.
That is what drew me to the Visual Compendium. I thought it was supposed to be a full page or two of graphics for each game? A little text added to it for me. I'm not clear on how it's going to be now. More text and less pictures could be more or less cool to me. Will have to check it out.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Exactly! Me being a former e art major,I usually swoon over the video game artbooks....especially Rockman/Mega Man ones like the 20th and 25th anniversary ones. Those are amazing and my favorites!
I wish they had a similar artbook for Castlevania or just for Konami in general. That would be equally amazing.
That is what drew me to the Visual Compendium. I thought it was supposed to be a full page or two of graphics for each game? A little text added to it for me. I'm not clear on how it's going to be now. More text and less pictures could be more or less cool to me. Will have to check it out.
I would love to have a book just on video game box art,but I may be in the minority on this.
Comments
Originally posted by: g_block
Originally posted by: rokushadows
I would have much rather had the other book. Only 17 games seems rather weak.
did some digging, looks like they're still doing it...just went a different route!
https://www.megafounder.com/nesfa...
Good find! Thanks for letting me know.
17 games, piss on that.
Dammit ta hell!
Seriously? That kickstarter book that had unofficial right in the title was stopped by nintendo? When Konami stopped Hardcore Gaming 101 from releasing a castlevania book they were able to re-release it after they added unofficial to the title. I thought that would fix everything.
Holy crap, they apparently got the takedown reversed!?
https://www.kickstarter.com/dmca/nintendo-entertainment-system-famicom-a-visual-compendium-submit
Funded July 22nd
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2146199819/nintendo-entertainment-system-famicom-a-visual-com
Originally posted by: gutsman004
When I was looking for preorders for the nes mini,I came across that. $44.95! If it covered all of the library I'd be cool with that,but I'll pass on it for now and wait for the price to drop or go on clearance.
$45 for that?! What the hell...I mean it looks wicked and I'd buy it...but not at that price. If I can find it for $20 a few years from now I might grab it lol...but $45 and they only cover 17 games...lame.
I'd much rather have 17 games in depth than 700+ games with a half page blurb.
You know, I actually agree with this. I'm more interested in the other excerpts, ads, hand-drawn maps, and other content. It is supposedly 320 pages, so regardless of how many games it covers, there has to be some interesting stuff in there. It isn't really an 'either-or' thing for me, I mean both concepts are interesting, but personally I am actually more interested to see the extra content in this book.
Also, a 320-page hardcover official book for $27, isn't bad. It won't be for everyone, but it sounds like some will definitely find enjoyment from it.
When I was looking for preorders for the nes mini,I came across that. $44.95! If it covered all of the library I'd be cool with that,but I'll pass on it for now and wait for the price to drop or go on clearance.
$45 for that?! What the hell...I mean it looks wicked and I'd buy it...but not at that price. If I can find it for $20 a few years from now I might grab it lol...but $45 and they only cover 17 games...lame.
That's the listed price for it on Gamestop's website. Definitely go Amazon on this one. $27 is definitely not a bad price for it.
I might end up buying this anyways cause I'm an idiot.
- every Nintendo fan ever
This sums me up pretty nicely.
I might end up buying this anyways cause I'm an idiot.
- every Nintendo fan ever
This sums me up pretty nicely.
All collectors are idiots. That's why they even made a site for us, idiotage.com
And I love it here! Just kidding on the "idiot" part!
I might end up buying this anyways cause I'm an idiot.
- every Nintendo fan ever
This sums me up pretty nicely.
All collectors are idiots. That's why they even made a site for us, idiotage.com
And I love it here! Just kidding on the "idiot" part!
Ahh...calling all mods! Calling all mods! We have a 6502 in progress! Get out your ban hammaaaaassssss!
I would get whichever book does not require me to get another.
Aren't you coming out with a similar book called Playing with Hot Dogs? Oh wait....
Playing with Sausage Power? Damn...
Secrets of the Hot Dog Champs? Crap,I give up.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
After reading that,I no
longer want that book so thank you for saving me from disappointment!
How can you not go in depth on the game that started it all?! Let me guess,that book is mainly a OoT lovefest.
Originally posted by: gutsman004
Originally posted by: SoleGooseProductions
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
After reading that,I no
longer want that book so thank you for saving me from disappointment!
How can you not go in depth on the game that started it all?! Let me guess,that book is mainly a OoT lovefest.
I forget to be honest, but I think it was Skyward Sword that they gushed over. I borrowed it from the library, scanned those two pages at home as I wanted the LoZ design document in my files, and then forgot about it. I also forgot to take it off my Amazon wishlist, so my wife bought it for me for Christmas. It has sat on the bookshelf sealed ever since. She tries so hard, it's endearing .
That is what bothers me about a lot of these books, all pictures and no substance. Text and pictures can be great, but the text needs to be decent (and yeah, I'll take crap for that later, but it is true). Or they limit themselves to brief descriptions and try to cover too much ground, which means that an in depth look at seventeen games might end up being pretty decent. However, where are the full examinations of things? The best video game history books are all almost a decade old now, some close to thirty, and no one seems interested in writing new ones despite the sea of new information that could support them. Off my lawn and all that stuff.
The Visual Compendium book on KickStarter went through after all. The copyright issues seemed to be minimal, with the bonus that the amount of text has to be doubled (and it does not have to appear on the images, ruining the layout). I'd much rather back that than this, though if it covers fewer games in depth then it will be a good read, as long as thirty of those aren't on Urban Champion.
Hyrule Historia was a huge disappointment too, with a whole two pages or so on the original LoZ, so hopefully this one is better. Don't promise history in your title and then just flash a few pictures of where it all began. And yes, different companies and authors, but I am still bitter.
After reading that,I no
longer want that book so thank you for saving me from disappointment!
How can you not go in depth on the game that started it all?! Let me guess,that book is mainly a OoT lovefest.
I forget to be honest, but I think it was Skyward Sword that they gushed over. I borrowed it from the library, scanned those two pages at home as I wanted the LoZ design document in my files, and then forgot about it. I also forgot to take it off my Amazon wishlist, so my wife bought it for me for Christmas. It has sat on the bookshelf sealed ever since. She tries so hard, it's endearing .
That is what bothers me about a lot of these books, all pictures and no substance. Text and pictures can be great, but the text needs to be decent (and yeah, I'll take crap for that later, but it is true). Or they limit themselves to brief descriptions and try to cover too much ground, which means that an in depth look at seventeen games might end up being pretty decent. However, where are the full examinations of things? The best video game history books are all almost a decade old now, some close to thirty, and no one seems interested in writing new ones despite the sea of new information that could support them. Off my lawn and all that stuff.
I would have bought it based off of the first three games,especially the first,but if those are under represented and the newer ones over represented,then no thanks.
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
I'd buy a copy if it were really cheap,otherwise I'm good saving my money for something else.
Woudn't be surprised either if this becomes a book series.
Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
Amazon's description promised such things as: unparalleled historical information, never-before-seen concept art, the full history of Hyrule, and history, history, history. Even if it was intended to discuss the history of Hyrule as a world, and not as a game, why did they bother to include design documents and other things.
Thanks for the link on the current book, I'll take the plunge at that price. As much as I am tired of these coffee table books and light treatments, this one has some blind potential simply due to its reduced scope and higher page count.
^^Wasn't Hyrule Hystoria suppose to be an answer to the rampant fanboy theories regarding the Zelda Chronology? I believe there were three timelines, which split apart during the events of OOT/MM. Full disclosure, I own a copy but haven't read it yet.
Amazon's description promised such things as: unparalleled historical information, never-before-seen concept art, the full history of Hyrule, and history, history, history. Even if it was intended to discuss the history of Hyrule as a world, and not as a game, why did they bother to include design documents and other things.
Thanks for the link on the current book, I'll take the plunge at that price. As much as I am tired of these coffee table books and light treatments, this one has some blind potential simply due to its reduced scope and higher page count.
Still, it's Prima, and they've never made anything good.
That book will be tons better than this one. Kickstarter is over now (way past fully funded) but I'm sure there will be ways to buy it after it's printed. I think they are shooting for January or February.
Originally posted by: KHAN Games
As Beau mentioned, the kickstarter for the Visual Compendium book wasn't "shut down." It was just delayed while they worked out some details with Nintendo. They had to double the amount of text per page and take the official seal off the cover (which wasn't really going to be in the book anyway).
That book will be tons better than this one. Kickstarter is over now (way past fully funded) but I'm sure there will be ways to buy it after it's printed. I think they are shooting for January or February.
Honestly, I am more interested in this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/560468638/nintendo-nes-library-guide-and-review-book-of-750/
Pat and Ian review 750 NES games! I don't think a more complete anthology has been written for any system! To me that is worth more than a picture book. Really bummed I slept through this Kickstarter, however I am hoping it becomes available for other Joes to pick up later. My only gripe, albeit a minor one, was they could have thrown in a few Famicom exclusives as I have a soft spot for imports, but as it stands nothing this complete has existed before or since.
As Beau mentioned, the kickstarter for the Visual Compendium book wasn't "shut down." It was just delayed while they worked out some details with Nintendo. They had to double the amount of text per page and take the official seal off the cover (which wasn't really going to be in the book anyway).
That book will be tons better than this one. Kickstarter is over now (way past fully funded) but I'm sure there will be ways to buy it after it's printed. I think they are shooting for January or February.
Honestly, I am more interested in this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/proje...
Pat and Ian review 750 NES games! I don't think a more complete anthology has been written for any system! To me that is worth more than a picture book. Really bummed I slept through this Kickstarter, however I am hoping it becomes available for other Joes to pick up later. My only gripe, albeit a minor one, was they could have thrown in a few Famicom exclusives as I have a soft spot for imports, but as it stands nothing this complete has existed before or since.
Honestly I don't have much interest in this book or any other type of review book. Reviews have been done to death. Give me something I haven't seen before. Conceptual sketches,personal notes from the creators,funny stories,....stuff you can only get from the source. Nothing wrong with this book and others like it,it's just that I'd rather have the stuff mentioned earlier than some fan's take on these games. I can get that on NA,gamefaqs,or youtube.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Exactly! Me being a former art major,I usually swoon over the video game artbooks....especially Rockman/Mega Man ones like the 20th and 25th anniversary ones. Those are amazing and my favorites!
I wish they had a similar artbook for Castlevania or just for Konami in general. That would be equally amazing.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Exactly! Me being a former art major,I usually swoon over the video game artbooks....especially Rockman/Mega Man ones like the 20th and 25th anniversary ones. Those are amazing and my favorites!
I wish they had a similar artbook for Castlevania or just for Konami in general. That would be equally amazing.
That is what drew me to the Visual Compendium. I thought it was supposed to be a full page or two of graphics for each game? A little text added to it for me. I'm not clear on how it's going to be now. More text and less pictures could be more or less cool to me. Will have to check it out.
Yeah I'd rather read about the history of 17 games than 750 reviews from one person's perspective. I can check out gameplay of something on youtube to decide if I want to play it.
Exactly! Me being a former e art major,I usually swoon over the video game artbooks....especially Rockman/Mega Man ones like the 20th and 25th anniversary ones. Those are amazing and my favorites!
I wish they had a similar artbook for Castlevania or just for Konami in general. That would be equally amazing.
That is what drew me to the Visual Compendium. I thought it was supposed to be a full page or two of graphics for each game? A little text added to it for me. I'm not clear on how it's going to be now. More text and less pictures could be more or less cool to me. Will have to check it out.
I would love to have a book just on video game box art,but I may be in the minority on this.