Over leveling in RPGs
I just finished FFVI on GBA and went through the Soul Shrine which I've never done before. Anyway all my characters are level 99 with all magic and pretty much maxed out gear. I thought the shrine would be harder than it was(damn 2nd form skull dragon is still really annoying), but I didn't really have any panic moments with such high level characters. When I went online to see if there was anything else in the game via YouTube, pretty much everyone in the comments bitches about people playing with an OP party and how they beat the game with level 10s etc. etc.
I never really thought about it that much, but it seemed to rub people the wrong way. Is this something that's frowned upon in the RPG community. I get it, but at the same time I don't see the point of getting your jimmies all rustled about it.
I never really thought about it that much, but it seemed to rub people the wrong way. Is this something that's frowned upon in the RPG community. I get it, but at the same time I don't see the point of getting your jimmies all rustled about it.
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So it doesn't surprise me that purists of the genre would see it as an affront of some sort.
(similar to how we see hardcore arcade guys rail about using continues in NES games)
You just cast it once and beat Sephiroth in 1 hit?
Of course that isn't the intent of that summon materia it is supposed to be used for Emerald/Ruby weapon but still........never grind anymore and will only use "side-quest", "end-game" or "ultimate-weapons" on the bosses that are stronger than the end boss.
You just cast it once and beat Sephiroth in 1 hit?
There was a bunch of stuff that pretty much kills him in one hit.
I certainly didn't over-level in that game, I maybe killed him in 2 hits, because both Cloud and Cid were ready to do limit breaks when combat started.
Boom. Last boss is dead.
The end of that game was a joke.
You just cast it once and beat Sephiroth in 1 hit?
There was a bunch of stuff that pretty much kills him in one hit.
I certainly didn't over-level in that game, I maybe killed him in 2 hits, because both Cloud and Cid were ready to do limit breaks when combat started.
Boom. Last boss is dead.
The end of that game was a joke.
Yeah Cloud's Omnislash will do it as well I think if you hit the 9,999 damage cap, a bit more difficult to obtain than KoTR though.
Shouldn't matter what other people think about it as long as you're having fun. That's why it annoys me when people complain about how others play games :b
You just cast it once and beat Sephiroth in 1 hit?
There was a bunch of stuff that pretty much kills him in one hit.
I certainly didn't over-level in that game, I maybe killed him in 2 hits, because both Cloud and Cid were ready to do limit breaks when combat started.
Boom. Last boss is dead.
The end of that game was a joke.
Yeah Cloud's Omnislash will do it as well I think if you hit the 9,999 damage cap, a bit more difficult to obtain than KoTR though.
You have to grind chocobo farming to get KoTR (which back when the game came out was harder to do than it probably would be now with an online guide).
Omnislash was straightforward enough to get that I had it, since it evidently must not have been a grind-fest, since I don't go for that sort of thing...
A couple of things:
Definitely contain your generalizatin to JRPGs.
Western RPGs (CRPGs in particular) are often meant to be hard.
(i.e. the school of thought that spawned games like Wizardry and the brutal genre of Roguelikes)
A couple of things:
Definitely contain your generalizatin to JRPGs.
Western RPGs (CRPGs in particular) are often meant to be hard.
(i.e. the school of thought that spawned games like Wizardry and the brutal genre of Roguelikes)
I said most didn't I? Sure, some are going to be hard. Just like most pro basketball players are tall, but some aren't.
Basically made the rest of the game a joke
If an RPG lets me grind until bosses are easier, I usually do it. If you don't want me to "overlevel", design your game differently. If you want to put arbitrary restrictions on yourself to make games harder, sure. Beat Doom 2 without the super shotgun or play Diablo with no gear, but you're supposed to kill stuff in old RPGs to get stronger so that's what I do.
this
If an RPG lets me grind until bosses are easier, I usually do it. If you don't want me to "overlevel", design your game differently. If you want to put arbitrary restrictions on yourself to make games harder, sure. Beat Doom 2 without the super shotgun or play Diablo with no gear, but you're supposed to kill stuff in old RPGs to get stronger so that's what I do.
Wizardry 7 handled this really well with some kind of background turn system where there were time-sensitive elements to the game.
(i.e. treasure chests that would be raided before you arrived, if you spent too many turns getting there)
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
Strongly depends on the specific subgenre of what we mean by "RPG"...
If you include Roguelikes, despite the need for the stars to align with how the RNG treats you, they still require considerable skill and a deep understanding of the game mechanics to actually win.
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
It's not often I agree with pegboy but.... yeeeeaaaah.
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
Strongly depends on the specific subgenre of what we mean by "RPG"...
If you include Roguelikes, despite the need for the stars to align with how the RNG treats you, they still require considerable skill and a deep understanding of the game mechanics to actually win.
The problem with most RPGs is that they are easily exploitable once you know a trick or two, which you can just look up in a guide or FAQ. Or you can just brute force grind the game away. That isn't a game of skill to me.
Theres always some clown on youtube or a forum that will argue about it, but play the game so you enjoy it.
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
Strongly depends on the specific subgenre of what we mean by "RPG"...
If you include Roguelikes, despite the need for the stars to align with how the RNG treats you, they still require considerable skill and a deep understanding of the game mechanics to actually win.
The problem with most RPGs is that they are easily exploitable once you know a trick or two, which you can just look up in a guide or FAQ. Or you can just brute force grind the game away. That isn't a game of skill to me.
Which is why I mention roguelikes as a subgenre.
Hell, if I really wanted to take the easy route I'd just do the auto leveling trick in the water fall section.
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
It's not often I agree with pegboy but.... yeeeeaaaah.
He couldn't be further from the truth, really.....
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
It's not often I agree with pegboy but.... yeeeeaaaah.
He couldn't be further from the truth, really.....
Tell us all about these hardcore RPGs that you've been playing that can't easily be solved with a guide or by grindiing? I'm waiting.
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
Strongly depends on the specific subgenre of what we mean by "RPG"...
If you include Roguelikes, despite the need for the stars to align with how the RNG treats you, they still require considerable skill and a deep understanding of the game mechanics to actually win.
The problem with most RPGs is that they are easily exploitable once you know a trick or two, which you can just look up in a guide or FAQ. Or you can just brute force grind the game away. That isn't a game of skill to me.
Which is why I mention roguelikes as a subgenre.
So they are hard because of permadeaths? That just sounds like bad game design to me. Besides I think we all talking about JRPGs if you want to get specific, OP was talking about FF6 and other games where you can just grind your way to victory.
If I didnt spell it wrong you wouldn't have anything to correct! Just thinking of you arch.
You might be onto something though.
Rouge-likes might be some exotic genre of burlesque that we should all look into...
Who cares? RPGs are not games of skill anyway and those people are idiots.
Strongly depends on the specific subgenre of what we mean by "RPG"...
If you include Roguelikes, despite the need for the stars to align with how the RNG treats you, they still require considerable skill and a deep understanding of the game mechanics to actually win.
The problem with most RPGs is that they are easily exploitable once you know a trick or two, which you can just look up in a guide or FAQ. Or you can just brute force grind the game away. That isn't a game of skill to me.
Which is why I mention roguelikes as a subgenre.
So they are hard because of permadeaths? That just sounds like bad game design to me. Besides I think we all talking about JRPGs if you want to get specific, OP was talking about FF6 and other games where you can just grind your way to victory.
Try DoomRL, for a good sense of what makes the genre hard.
Permadeath is not what makes those games hard.
The need to figure out creative ways to survive and use the tactical environment, combined with a good risk strategy that factors in the RNG is what makes them hard.
I was mentioning western RPGs in response to an earlier post.
A lot of other western RPGs manage to present difficulty in other ways that it isn't necessarily possible to just grind your way out of (ie the turn limit related things in Wizardry 7)
I completely agree that it removes challenge from JRPGs as a genre, though, where it becomes a question of how much time do you want to trade to reduce the apparent difficulty, and the press A until you meet that goal
If I didnt spell it wrong you wouldn't have anything to correct! Just thinking of you arch.
You might be onto something though.
Rouge-likes might be some exotic genre of burlesque that we should all look into...
Now you're talking my kind of grinding!
Theres really no proper way to play an RPG. People that are good at them will beat stuff with lower levels and in less time. I play in the middle, I hate being underleveled, but being overleveled takes the fun out of it too.
Theres always some clown on youtube or a forum that will argue about it, but play the game so you enjoy it.
^Came to say this pretty much.
I've played through so many RPGs that, in the past two years especially, I try to stay undergeared and underleveled on purpose -- to challenge myself (strategy is much more of a 'thing' in these games when you limit your resources).
But people can play however the hell they want. Sometimes I do feel like overkilling everything with OP characters and a full inventory. That can be just as fun.
At this point, there's so many RPGs (and so little relative time) that no one should be sweating how someone else beat one.