Rats and the EPA

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/11/23/epa-big-cities-stop-killing-rats-dry-ice/94337366/



Dry ice was discovered in 1835 and began being manufactured industrially in 1925.  The only dangers it has ever posed has been to careless handling.



Rats on the other hand have been with humanity forever and have caused major problems (not the least of which was serving as a vector for the various outbreaks of the Black Death) in history.  



So we have a safe (and cheap) method of eradicating a high percentage of these vermin without using toxic poisons and the EPA blocks it?    Something seriously wrong here.   

Comments

  • Dry Ice forms CO2 Gas as it sublimates (meaning it goes directly from solid to gas) I suppose the EPA's reasoning is that they don't like the CO2 emissions and therefor consider it an illegal pesticide.



    The logic is there and there are guidelines to follow, and clearly this is a safe material to use especially considering how effective it is. But the US can't just say "go-ahead" rules need to be changed to allow it.



    It sucks but it's how the system works unfortunately. We're in the process of putting up a lead recycling plant and we're learning just how much the EPA does take into consideration. Believe it or not they're actually super helpful for businesses looking to do things the proper way. Not sure why so many businesses hate them.



    Point is, it's super easy to look at something like this and say "X three letter organization is incompetent" but in reality it's much more complex yet elegant at the same time. Sometimes its good others it's bad.
  • Dry ice is made from CO2 that comes from industrial byproducts so it is in essence recycling what was going to be in the environment in any event. And somewhere in the equation the vast amount of good this can (and has done if the results are to be believed) do has to enter in the equation.



    The EPA is in essence saying even though dry ice has been used for almost 100 years and we have no studies that show it has caused any harm we are going to block it because we think it might. They are trying to judge it like they would any new pesticide or poison when this is clearly more beneficial to the environment than the equivalent poisons would be (not to mention that it works a whole lot better) and shares virtually nothing with pesticides or poisons . And I am sure that most cities can use the savings in their budgets for other important things.



    Fine - they think dry ice has somehow transmorphed overnight into a danger they need to produce a study that it is peer reviewed and use that to provide/justify regulations. Dry ice has never been regulated in such a manner before - kinda odd if it really is a dire threat that no one (including the EPA) has noticed before. I figure out how to clean contacts on cartridge games with it I have to apply to EPA for permission?



    On the bright side we made see a sea change in the EPA in the very near future - rats should be cowering in fear even as we speak.





    Mrs. Bumppo used to work in the state regulatory environmental health field and she has nightmare stories about the EPA and their idiocracies.  I think the EPA and their handlers have drank too much BRAWNDO.   
  • Did we learn NOTHING from Ghostbusters??



    image
  • Quick response would be that rodenticide baits are the #1 product used in the control of rodents in North America. The #1 most popular and used brand of rodent bait is "Contrac Blox", who's manufacturer is Bell Laboratories. Bell was just acquired by Nokia, and parent companies include AT&T, Western electric, Lucent, etc. A bucket of the blocks goes for about $50 at wholesale, a bucket will last an average of a week until it runs out, per technician, and each pest control company has an average of 10-15 techs. And there's countless pest control companies in the US. The blocks themselves have a shelf life of about 2 weeks in average temperature, a little longer in the winter. And dry ice is insanely cheap compared to this, plus no real credentials are necessary to purchase it. Another top pesticide and rodenticide manufacturer is Bayer (yeah, the same guys that make aspirin). If you think they would let this cheap new product come to market that any old Joe can purchase without a pest control license effectively obsoleting their huge money making product, you're crazy. They will pay off whoever they have to, sue whoever they have to, etc etc, until it goes away or just sits in court for 30 years. They would probably even go as far as to make up fake environmental statistics and claim that dry ice has immensely negative effects. It's relative to why we still drive gas powered vehicles as opposed to clean burning fuel. Money dictates. It's not always what works best for everyone, but what makes the most $ for a small group of people
  • Guess it's all about the money. Under the guise of a greener Earth and animal cruelty, of course.
  • Originally posted by: cirellio



    Guess it's all about the money. Under the guise of a greener Earth and animal cruelty, of course.



    It doesn't have anything to do with animal cruelty. The way they are killed now is inhumane also.

     
  • Originally posted by: SDoren



    Quick response would be that rodenticide baits are the #1 product used in the control of rodents in North America. The #1 most popular and used brand of rodent bait is "Contrac Blox", who's manufacturer is Bell Laboratories. Bell was just acquired by Nokia, and parent companies include AT&T, Western electric, Lucent, etc. A bucket of the blocks goes for about $50 at wholesale, a bucket will last an average of a week until it runs out, per technician, and each pest control company has an average of 10-15 techs. And there's countless pest control companies in the US. The blocks themselves have a shelf life of about 2 weeks in average temperature, a little longer in the winter. And dry ice is insanely cheap compared to this, plus no real credentials are necessary to purchase it. Another top pesticide and rodenticide manufacturer is Bayer (yeah, the same guys that make aspirin). If you think they would let this cheap new product come to market that any old Joe can purchase without a pest control license effectively obsoleting their huge money making product, you're crazy. They will pay off whoever they have to, sue whoever they have to, etc etc, until it goes away or just sits in court for 30 years. They would probably even go as far as to make up fake environmental statistics and claim that dry ice has immensely negative effects. It's relative to why we still drive gas powered vehicles as opposed to clean burning fuel. Money dictates. It's not always what works best for everyone, but what makes the most $ for a small group of people





    Yeah! Lobbyists FTW.
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