Shipping Refund Question
The Friday before last (11/18), I won a lot of Intellivision stuff on eBay and paid immediately. The seller posted the shipping as "Expedited Shipping (USPS Priority Mail Large Flat Rate Box® " for $18.75, so I happily paid it, thinking I had a good shot at getting everything in pre-Thanksgiving. They shipped the package out the next day (11/19) and it got from MI to PA overnight (11/20) then departed 5 hours later (11/21). From that point, it ended up showing up as "In transit to destination" for more than 48 hours before showing up in GA late on 11/23 (my local sorting hub should have been in TN). I figured this was simply a sorting error and the expected delivery date updated to reflect Friday, 11/25. Well, despite the last scan showing the check in in GA on 11/23, the package again went into "In transit to destination" status until finally, suddenly, showing up at my local post office early this morning, 11/28. I was fairly ecstatic that the USPS had finally gotten the lead out and gotten my package sorted and routed properly but felt a bit differently when I actually picked the package up from home. Instead of any sort of expedited shipping, the seller had actually shipped the package via USPS Media Mail for $6.62. The package the items were contained in was simply a Kohl's box which had been cut down on one end and then "wrapped" to make a smaller box and then packing taped together.
As it sits, expedited/Priority Mail shipping was advertised (with approximately 2-3 day delivery implied) and I was charged $18.75, but the seller spent $6.62 on Media Mail (which this didn't qualify for), nothing on packing materials (no charge for a used department store box and no cushioning inside the box and certainly not $12+ worth of tape on the box) which ended up delivering 6 days after the expectation that was set. Would I be totally out of line to ask for some of my shipping fee back on this, especially since what they listed in the auction was 3x what they actually spent? I was never contacted past being provided the tracking details and never advised that this had been sent via media mail. Just thought I'd reach out for thoughts here before emailing the seller about this issue/discrepancy.
As it sits, expedited/Priority Mail shipping was advertised (with approximately 2-3 day delivery implied) and I was charged $18.75, but the seller spent $6.62 on Media Mail (which this didn't qualify for), nothing on packing materials (no charge for a used department store box and no cushioning inside the box and certainly not $12+ worth of tape on the box) which ended up delivering 6 days after the expectation that was set. Would I be totally out of line to ask for some of my shipping fee back on this, especially since what they listed in the auction was 3x what they actually spent? I was never contacted past being provided the tracking details and never advised that this had been sent via media mail. Just thought I'd reach out for thoughts here before emailing the seller about this issue/discrepancy.
Comments
This is exactly why i just list with free shipping. While the OP here is in the right and this is pretty BS, there are others who will nitpick the shit out of you about minor things. To just avoid it I make it free shipping and they get, what they get. I send it out quickly, the correct most economical reasonable way.
This is exactly why i just list with free shipping. While the OP here is in the right and this is pretty BS, there are others who will nitpick the shit out of you about minor things. To just avoid it I make it free shipping and they get, what they get. I send it out quickly, the correct most economical reasonable way.
This is pretty much where I'm at. Granted, I usually use media mail because I mostly ship VHS tapes, but I couldn't agree more.
When you label something as priority flat rate you have to go out of your way on the listing to do that on the shipping section. That isnt the default. So yeah Id definitely ask the seller about it, and that you paid priority mail expedited and you didnt receive that.
This is exactly why i just list with free shipping. While the OP here is in the right and this is pretty BS, there are others who will nitpick the shit out of you about minor things. To just avoid it I make it free shipping and they get, what they get. I send it out quickly, the correct most economical reasonable way.
Agreed. Although I rarely sell on eBay, when I do I do it free. I always felt the average "sale" price on free shipping items (on auctions) gets some of the shipping fees paded anyways
Thanks for all the responses and help! Before I reach out, I just wanted to check on one last thing: If they deny my request, is there any recourse with eBay in regard to something like this, or am I just out the extra money? $12 isn't a huge amount, but every little bit I don't have to spend around Christmas time helps.
No real "recourse" as far as I'm aware, but IMO that kind of thing warrants neutral feedback, especially if you're not satisfied with his response to your request
Had they still shipped Priority Mail but it didn't cost the 18.75, then I don't think you could do anything claim-wise.
While I was initially looking at how to reach out on eBay, I checked out the "item not as described" bubble and wondered if that might not peripherally apply to this situation. If the seller refuses, versus going directly to PayPal, would it be worth a shot to go through the request a return/refund process (covered by eBay's protection guarantee) and see what shakes out? Thanks again to everyone for their thoughts and help with this.
"We are a donation Organization helping needy families the The prices which are placed on our auctions for shipping is just an estimate a buyer would assume he is paying A certain price for shipping therefore he will not bid as much as he would have I don't understand why you're upset you got an awesome deal if you would like you can open a case I am not authorized to refund small amounts due to the church controlling the donations but if you would like a full refund we can do a return waiting on your response"
Sounds seriously fishy to me. The auction stated that the seller had found the items in her attic, not that they were somehow donated, and now there's all this. I'm debating on whether to push back gently and give them another chance to refund the (non-donation) extra shipping I was incorrectly charged or just open up something with eBay or PayPal. I have no intentions of going through with a return, just upset at waiting a week longer for a package to arrive than what I'd paid for then finding out that the seller (or "church" if the response I got is to be believed) pocketed the excess.
Ok, so I just got my response back:
"We are a donation Organization helping needy families the The prices which are placed on our auctions for shipping is just an estimate a buyer would assume he is paying A certain price for shipping therefore he will not bid as much as he would have I don't understand why you're upset you got an awesome deal if you would like you can open a case I am not authorized to refund small amounts due to the church controlling the donations but if you would like a full refund we can do a return waiting on your response"
Sounds seriously fishy to me. The auction stated that the seller had found the items in her attic, not that they were somehow donated, and now there's all this. I'm debating on whether to push back gently and give them another chance to refund the (non-donation) extra shipping I was incorrectly charged or just open up something with eBay or PayPal. I have no intentions of going through with a return, just upset at waiting a week longer for a package to arrive than what I'd paid for then finding out that the seller (or "church" if the response I got is to be believed) pocketed the excess.
This is the part that bothers me. I am under the impression that eBay has an option for the seller to place "Message seller for shipping quote" or something to that effect. I have seen it before. Either way, the shipping price stated in the listing, and what you paid, is misleading. $12 is $12... holiday season or not. Whenever I sell on eBay I just do "Free shipping" and get it over with to avoid any issues.
"I spoke with the issue to father of the church who handles the donations he has agreed to refund the difference of the shipping Price if the buyer leaves positive feedback first he is afraid you will blemish our account"
...so...isn't this totally not allowed? Isn't this basically reverse feedback extortion? I'm guessing neither eBay nor PayPal will think highly of them for posing this in such a manner but don't necessarily want to go through the whole claim/dispute/case process if it can be avoided. I thought about leaving them no feedback at all (versus neutral) if they went ahead and provided the refund, but this really sticks in my craw.
I've never had to call them, but can't you call eBay and tell them the story and see how they would like you to proceed?
Yes. Their customer support is wishy washy though. Sometimes you get someone knowledgable and sometimes you get the one person that tells you that you need to donate blood to use eBay. If you know the rules and know what needs to be done and you get a wishy washy agent then just hang up and call again.
I've never had to call them, but can't you call eBay and tell them the story and see how they would like you to proceed?
Yes. Their customer support is wishy washy though. Sometimes you get someone knowledgable and sometimes you get the one person that tells you that you need to donate blood to use eBay. If you know the rules and know what needs to be done and you get a wishy washy agent then just hang up and call again.
Sounds exactly what I should have expected from eBay.
Sudden, unexpected update:
"I spoke with the issue to father of the church who handles the donations he has agreed to refund the difference of the shipping Price if the buyer leaves positive feedback first he is afraid you will blemish our account"
...so...isn't this totally not allowed? Isn't this basically reverse feedback extortion? I'm guessing neither eBay nor PayPal will think highly of them for posing this in such a manner but don't necessarily want to go through the whole claim/dispute/case process if it can be avoided. I thought about leaving them no feedback at all (versus neutral) if they went ahead and provided the refund, but this really sticks in my craw.
you could agree, get your refund, then leave whatever feedback you want. they don't have any leverage over you after you have your money.
or you could take the high road, tell them you can't agree to that arrangement, but you are still entitled to a refund and would like to resolve it directly. then open a case if they push back.
I'd lean towards the first option because fuck them.
you could agree, get your refund, then leave whatever feedback you want. they don't have any leverage over you after you have your money.
or you could take the high road, tell them you can't agree to that arrangement, but you are still entitled to a refund and would like to resolve it directly. then open a case if they push back.
I'd lean towards the first option because fuck them.
Well, they agreed to the refund but did specify that I had to leave positive feedback first before they'd actually provide it, so no tricky agree-then-feedback-them-later option there.
However, I did just get off the phone with eBay about this, as it clearly falls under the rules on feedback extortion by sellers. The person I spoke to looked into the transaction and all messages back and forth, agreed that this was clearly feedback extortion and not allowed under eBay's rules. She reported them for it (with whatever penalties that brings) while I was on the phone, advised me to open a return case stating "item not as described" with the details regarding the bait and switch shipping method & charges to get "the refund [you are] owed" (direct quote) and then advised me to leave whatever feedback I felt was appropriate, even suggesting that I specifically leave a negative after this incident. I thanked her then told her I would definitely open the case but would make sure to include photos of the packaging (showing it as a used Kohl's box and sent via Media Mail) which she advised would ensure the case was resolved quickly and in my favor.
It'll be a bit before I'm home and can start the process of putting this all to bed, but thanks once again to everyone for their tips, thoughts and suggestions!
Well, they agreed to the refund but did specify that I had to leave positive feedback first before they'd actually provide it, so no tricky agree-then-feedback-them-later option there.
However, I did just get off the phone with eBay about this, as it clearly falls under the rules on feedback extortion by sellers. The person I spoke to looked into the transaction and all messages back and forth, agreed that this was clearly feedback extortion and not allowed under eBay's rules. She reported them for it (with whatever penalties that brings) while I was on the phone, advised me to open a return case stating "item not as described" with the details regarding the bait and switch shipping method & charges to get "the refund [you are] owed" (direct quote) and then advised me to leave whatever feedback I felt was appropriate, even suggesting that I specifically leave a negative after this incident. I thanked her then told her I would definitely open the case but would make sure to include photos of the packaging (showing it as a used Kohl's box and sent via Media Mail) which she advised would ensure the case was resolved quickly and in my favor.
It'll be a bit before I'm home and can start the process of putting this all to bed, but thanks once again to everyone for their tips, thoughts and suggestions!
nice, sounds like the best possible outcome. I hate when sellers try to cut corners to squeeze out a couple dollars. I get the media mail thing a lot but I'm usually just relieved to have gotten the item at all since it's most likely someone not knowing what they're doing.
I spoke with eBay for advice on how to proceed, since they advised me to do a "not as described" 'case,' but all that the site now allows in that instance is a return request. I was advised that this was how things were now and that eBay would escalate the issue and resolve it quickly, especially when I submitted it with clear photos of the media mail marked box attached. Late last night, within a 5 minute window, the seller first messages me to ask if I'm sure I want to do a return, then, without waiting for any response from me, ok's the full return and demands all of the items back as they were originally shipped.
This threw a wrench into what eBay had told me would happen, so I called up today. I first talked to a guy who said there wasn't anything I could do, that I could either return everything and get a full refund or live with it--in opposition to what I'd been told yesterday. Hung up and called back (as suggested above), got a general rep who told me that no, that given the situation they would be able to "think outside of the box on this" (her words, not mine) and then transferred me to a "case resolution" specialist. I got "Mark," who went through all of the details of everything, said everything was in my corner, that the seller was 100% in the wrong, that I was owed a refund for the bait & switch with shipping...and then started in about how eBay couldn't do anything, that I could either return or nothing. I escalated, got a supervisor, and started to hear the same rigamarole. She claimed they were powerless to either offer or force the seller to offer a partial refund because "the money is already with the seller." I pointed out to her that in cases where the seller did not respond at all or I filed as "item did not arrive," eBay definitely has the power to either provide a refund or force the seller to do so and asked what the difference was, if eBay was agreeing that the seller was in the wrong and owed me a refund. I was then advised that they couldn't take immediate action and that I could escalate the "case" (return) after 3 business days if no action had been taken, but that they encouraged buyers and sellers to work it out between themselves. I agreed to reach out again, advising that I wanted to speak with eBay on how to proceed first and pointing out that as I was being extorted for feedback the result would probably be the same.
So, I sat down about an hour ago and sent another plea to her, explaining that I wasn't comfortable after she demanded positive feedback before I got the refund she agreed to provide and talked to eBay, that eBay said she wasn't allowed to do so and that I needed to open a "case" (return) in order to give eBay visibility since feedback extortion is against the rules. I avoided making any demands, pointing out what, if any, type of feedback I could (or would) leave, etc. and had my calmest coworker look over the message to make sure that I only stated my request as pleasantly as I could, explaining that I didn't want to return anything just get the difference between Media Mail shipping used and Priority Mail shipping promised & paid for.
I figured I would have to wait a while to get a response, but within 10-15 minutes I got two back to back responses that I can only describe as "gasoline on a dumpster fire."
The first was very terse, demanding that I send the items back immediately, informing me that she had already sold them to someone else for $150 and I needed to cooperate so that everyone could be happy. The second was mocking, stating that I had "trust issues" because I wouldn't pre-emptively give her positive feedback before the promised refund would happen and that she would in no way, shape or form provide the difference at this point, again demanding that I immediately print the shipping label she sent and give her back the items she'd already resold.
When this first started, I suspected that this was about money, as all of her auctions for video game related items (nearly all Intellivision related and rare) are priced at the very top of eBay's closing prices but my auction closed for well under what one item in the lot would normally go for. Now, I suppose, that suspicion is confirmed. At this point, I'm more amused than anything and, as she's been as nasty as she has been, I intend to ride this out as far as it will go. Per eBay yesterday and today, she apparently has some sort of mark on her account for having tried feedback extortion through eBay messaging. I'm going to wait until Monday to try to escalate the issue as the eBay supervisor advised today and, if that option doesn't appear, or eBay is unwilling to actually do anything (at this point I would even accept them emailing her to ask and then not getting a refund--eBay should have to actually take some action on this other than pooh-poohing me on the phone), I'll see if I can follow up with PayPal about the fee. Where eBay and PayPal are now separate, I don't know what kind of visibility they have on eBay cases and messaging, but I imagine that if they can see everything that's gone through eBay's systems at this point, there shouldn't be any issue getting this resolved there.