Flawed level designs
What were some poor level design choices that made games unwinnible or caused you to get stuck and have to quit/reset. I'm not talking about programming glitches like level 10 of Battletoads, just poorly designed levels, where you did something in the wrong order or made one wrong move and you have to quit. Also, Lolo/ sokoban doesn't count either because getting stuck and resetting is the point of that game.
two that come to mind are the tall bubble columns over lava of Norfair in Metroid and the boulder you had to push in the mouth of doom room in Legacy of the wizard (where it was very easy to trap permanently trap yourself)
two that come to mind are the tall bubble columns over lava of Norfair in Metroid and the boulder you had to push in the mouth of doom room in Legacy of the wizard (where it was very easy to trap permanently trap yourself)
Comments
Stage 2 in NES Ghosts n Goblins has a section where a wrong move forces the player to get the torch, and for most players that means having to reset.
I don't know if this counts as flawed level design or as evil level design.
I wouldn't say it was necessarily flawed design, but if you got there at just the right time like I had... it's game over.
Edit: Totally forgot to mention I was talking about Legend of Zelda.
The 5th track in excitebike is complete bullshit, it expects you to be perfect in orders to beat the best time.
I wouldn't call that flawed design, but I agree. It's the reason why I haven't completed Excitebike in the 30x30.
Screw ALL of these games!
At least give me a system like Morrowind where a big box pops up and says "Hey you just did something/killed someone so the game can't be beaten! You should reload a save, but we're not your dad you can keep playing if you really want".
Do games where you can create unwinnable states (without notifying the player) count? That's why I hate Sierra, let's throw every King's Quest and LSL game up there. In Space Quest for example you need to refuse an offer the first time someone tries to buy your skimmer then accept their second offer where they throw in a jetpack. Otherwise later on in the game surprise, you don't have the jetpack and can't proceed. In Rise of the Dragon you can lose vital items permanently or pick bad dialogue choices that make key characters refuse to work with you thus making the game unwinnable.
Screw ALL of these games!
YES. Anytime the player is put into an unwinnable state without their knowledge the game should just kill them instead of allowing them to roam around aimlessly with no real objective. I suppose a lot of these games did allow save states to remedy this to some extent but it was still terrible game design.
Paperboy.
Got "killed", respawned me in the street. Car and grate blocking my path. Already past a driveway entrance to the sidewalk. Crashing into the car respawns me before the car again.
Reset.
Much of Predator NES.
Truth! The best part about that game is the sprite art for some of the cinematic sequences
I'd have to pick a few spots in Battletoads, as well.
Stage 2 in NES Ghosts n Goblins has a section where a wrong move forces the player to get the torch, and for most players that means having to reset.
I don't know if this counts as flawed level design or as evil level design.
can't you farm enemies for a replacement weapon?
Stage 2 in NES Ghosts n Goblins has a section where a wrong move forces the player to get the torch, and for most players that means having to reset.
I don't know if this counts as flawed level design or as evil level design.
can't you farm enemies for a replacement weapon?
Maybe. It's been a while since I've played. That is still a very annoying item drop if you're not careful.
When I have to stop and ask "I've been everywhere, where do I go now?" is bad level design IMO.
Stage 2 in NES Ghosts n Goblins has a section where a wrong move forces the player to get the torch, and for most players that means having to reset.
I don't know if this counts as flawed level design or as evil level design.
can't you farm enemies for a replacement weapon?
Maybe. It's been a while since I've played. That is still a very annoying item drop if you're not careful.
I agree, you shouldn't be forced to take it if you don't want it. And having to farm isn't exactly a good solution. Maybe they thought it was a good item and the player would want to use it
I agree, you shouldn't be forced to take it if you don't want it. And having to farm isn't exactly a good solution. Maybe they thought it was a good item and the player would want to use it
In the arcade game, it's one of the better weapons. Its akin to Castlevania's holy water, taking out most minor foes and lasting a few seconds so it can kill multiple charging enemies. And you can throw more than two at a time. It's a lot more awkward to use in the NES version.
Bea Iank swears by the torch, though.
Bea Iank swears by the torch, though.
well maybe that's why everyone finds the game so hard, not using the right weapon!
Just found one.
Paperboy.
Got "killed", respawned me in the street. Car and grate blocking my path. Already past a driveway entrance to the sidewalk. Crashing into the car respawns me before the car again.
Reset.
No matter how hard you turn left in that situation you can't get onto the sidewalk. This one spot has to account for at least a third of my deaths, and it's a huge pain even if you're prepared for it.
Deadly Towers has terrible mazes. Big, repetitive, and mostly empty, and you can't exit the way you went in (I think... it's been a while since I played).
I don't mind big, confusing mazes. I just don't like the way every entrance is invisible.
Much of Predator NES.
Shit, ALL of Predator. I've mentioned my hatred for this game every chance it's mentioned. I'm a l m o s t... to the point of firing it up, beating it and finally putting that damn thing to rest once and for all. Just need to check my medication limits and buy more rum first. ...Oh so hate that game... ugh...
Originally posted by: DarkTone
There's one level in super Turrican on Nes that fits this.
I didnt think anything in that game was bad. I beat it a few times.
Bad level design? How about Goonies II? Correct me if im wrong, but I got to the last door without a key and since it was a single screen window, no matter WHAT button or combination of buttons i pressed I could not go back to get one, locking me in the game. So I had to reset (luckily I had a password not too far back).