If a person posts something on social media, it's open to public critique. That simple.
If a person doesn't want to be critiqued by the public, there are more than enough avenues to discuss matters in a private manner where public critique is not socially acceptable.
If you don't want your neighbors to complain about your dirty laundry, it's best not to light it on fire in your front yard and run circles around it.
And similarly, a person who posts a critique is generally going to look like an asshole to everybody that reads it.
If a person posts something on social media, it's open to public critique. That simple.
If a person doesn't want to be critiqued by the public, there are more than enough avenues to discuss matters in a private manner where public critique is not socially acceptable.
If you don't want your neighbors to complain about your dirty laundry, it's best not to light it on fire in your front yard and run circles around it.
And similarly, a person who posts a critique is generally going to look like an asshole to everybody that reads it.
It depends.
But yes, the person responding is just as allowed to be judged.
If a person posts something on social media, it's open to public critique. That simple.
If a person doesn't want to be critiqued by the public, there are more than enough avenues to discuss matters in a private manner where public critique is not socially acceptable.
If you don't want your neighbors to complain about your dirty laundry, it's best not to light it on fire in your front yard and run circles around it.
And similarly, a person who posts a critique is generally going to look like an asshole to everybody that reads it.
It depends.
But yes, the person responding is just as allowed to be judged.
I read that as "AirVillain is an asshole", haha... which I sometimes can be.
But I agree... that person can be just as responsible for being a jerk.
The thing to me is... we're so freakin' priveleged here and it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
I read that as "AirVillain is an asshole", haha... which I sometimes can be.
But I agree... that person can be just as responsible for being a jerk.
The thing to me is... we're so freakin' priveleged here and it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
That doesn't really excuse being an asshole to somebody because you disagree with their life choices.
The thing is, publicly posting an unsolicited critique of somebody's circumstances/choices is pretty much GUARANTEED to make you look like a jerk, and carries a pretty similar guarantee that it's going to be ignored by the person, making it an unconstructive thing to do, anyway.
Sometimes people are just venting for some catharsis.
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
I read that as "AirVillain is an asshole", haha... which I sometimes can be.
But I agree... that person can be just as responsible for being a jerk.
The thing to me is... we're so freakin' priveleged here and it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
That doesn't really excuse being an asshole to somebody because you disagree with their life choices.
The thing is, publicly posting an unsolicited critique of somebody's circumstances/choices is pretty much GUARANTEED to make you look like a jerk, and carries a pretty similar guarantee that it's going to be ignored by the person, making it an unconstructive thing to do, anyway.
Sometimes people are just venting for some catharsis.
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
But... asking for money IS soliciting. So, someone is asking for money, but won't accept any comments regarding the hypocritical and entitled nature of their situation? I'm specifially speaking of GFM's here.
Just venting is a little different, so I understand what you're saying.
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
But... asking for money IS soliciting. So, someone is asking for money, but won't accept any comments regarding the hypocritical and entitled nature of their situation? I'm specifially speaking of GFM's here.
Just venting is a little different, so I understand what you're saying.
There are a couple of subtopics being covered in the thread.
1) somebody posting on a forum or social media with a complaint about life circumstances (that may very well be due to their poor decision making)
2) somebody soliciting funds on GoFundMe
For the former, it is essentially always inappropriate to chime in with negative commentary, and you are guaranteed to look like an ass for doing so.
For the latter, it is still generally inappropriate to chime in with criticism, since you could JUST AS EASILY keep your opinion to yourself, and be no worse off, while not potentially looking like a jerk.
The person presumably is using that platform to request support from people interested in providing support.
Not to seek antagonism from people that disagree with them.
(i.e. soliciting funds is not the same thing as actively soliciting voiced criticism)
If you don't like them, or their choices, then don't support them financially... simple as that.
Voicing your opinion about them really serves no purpose.
And when something that is going to offend them, and make you look bad, serves no purpose, what is the point of doing it?
If a post is made in a public forum, it's allowed to be criticized. That doesn't mean it should be criticized, or there is anything gained based on doing so.
If something is criticized (or critiqued, poor word choice on my part), that person is more than welcome to be viewed as an arse.
If a post is made in a public forum, it's allowed to be criticized. That doesn't mean it should be criticized, or there is anything gained based on doing so.
If something is criticized (or critiqued, poor word choice on my part), that person is more than welcome to be viewed as an arse.
Neither party gets a free pass from being judged.
Depends on how you're using the term "allowed"...
"Allowed" as in legal? Sure
"Allowed" as in socially acceptable?
Depends on what part of the country you're in, it seems, as to how much of a jerk you appear to be to somebody reading your criticism.
But I think the point remains, that publicly posting criticism or judgment of somebody's pleas or complaints serves very little purpose, if any.
(and as such certainly seems pointless to where erring on the side of being more polite would be better for everybody)
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
But... asking for money IS soliciting. So, someone is asking for money, but won't accept any comments regarding the hypocritical and entitled nature of their situation? I'm specifially speaking of GFM's here.
Just venting is a little different, so I understand what you're saying.
There are a couple of subtopics being covered in the thread.
1) somebody posting on a forum or social media with a complaint about life circumstances (that may very well be due to their poor decision making)
2) somebody soliciting funds on GoFundMe
For the former, it is essentially always inappropriate to chime in with negative commentary, and you are guaranteed to look like an ass for doing so.
For the latter, it is still generally inappropriate to chime in with criticism, since you could JUST AS EASILY keep your opinion to yourself, and be no worse off, while not potentially looking like a jerk.
The person presumably is using that platform to request support from people interested in providing support.
Not to seek antagonism from people that disagree with them.
(i.e. soliciting funds is not the same thing as actively soliciting voiced criticism)
If you don't like them, or their choices, then don't support them financially... simple as that.
Voicing your opinion about them really serves no purpose.
And when something that is going to offend them, and make you look bad, serves no purpose, what is the point of doing it?
Agreed about #1.
In regards to #2.... So the person sees the hypocrisy of their ways. And so that others, who have donated money, know exactly how that person is spending the money that's been donated to them.
Especially when that persons says one thing, and does another that is in clear opposition that their Go Fund Me has indicated.
In regards to #2.... So the person sees the hypocrisy of their ways. And so that others, who have donated money, know exactly how that person is spending the money that's been donated to them.
Especially when that persons says one thing, and does another that is in clear opposition that their Go Fund Me has indicated.
If it's about the person "seeing the hypocrisy of their ways", wouldn't it make more sense to provide that criticism privately, in a more constructive and less adversarial way?
I just don't see somebody being generally receptive to what is likely to be perceived as flaming from a random judgmental asshole.
For GoFundMe's related to people covering medical bills and mystery illnesses... I just don't think there is any way that you're going to publicly post criticism of the person's spending or actions that isn't going to make you look like an unempathetic jerk to most people (which won't serve your purposes, either)
In regards to #2.... So the person sees the hypocrisy of their ways. And so that others, who have donated money, know exactly how that person is spending the money that's been donated to them.
Especially when that persons says one thing, and does another that is in clear opposition that their Go Fund Me has indicated.
If it's about the person "seeing the hypocrisy of their ways", wouldn't it make more sense to provide that criticism privately, in a more constructive and less adversarial way?
I just don't see somebody being generally receptive to what is likely to be perceived as flaming from a random judgmental asshole.
For GoFundMe's related to people covering medical bills and mystery illnesses... I just don't think there is any way that you're going to publicly post criticism of the person's spending or actions that isn't going to make you look like an unempathetic jerk to most people (which won't serve your purposes, either)
I just think if people are going to ask me for money, they can handle a little "advice".
Well, if anyone is looking logically at the situation, they would see that I'm right and not being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
I just want to point out that the reason for saying anything is mostly the last part of my statement.... so that people who donated can become more aware, and possibly take a look at where their money is going. Also to show people thinking of donating how the money is being spent.
If you donate money (to anything) you want to know that your money is being used wisely, no? I'm not a big fan of donating money to people who 1) could support themselves and 2) are already better off than the vast majority of the world.
#firstworldproblems, in other words.
I mean, really... there's entire COUNTRIES that could use donations for food/clothing/shelter. The people asking for money for medical bills are basically saying "I refuse to change the way I live to pay for my own bills, so I'll ask you for money." These people could easily take out loans, use credit cards, or part with their belongings, or live in a more reasonable accomodation.
These are all things that people do when they need money. Just because it's for medical reasons, doesn't mean they should have to live by a different set of rules.
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
-In terms of constructive? There usually isn't one, in reality anyway. Sometimes people do it just to make themselves look good or "tough," even. I guess I could say that sometimes people just require a reality check, but social media isn't the best way to handle that in a normal situation.
Who do you think is better off for it?
-Nobody.
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
-Not usually.
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
-The latter, if I understand "yourself" to be a general term not directed at me personally.
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
-In terms of constructive? There usually isn't one, in reality anyway. Sometimes people do it just to make themselves look good or "tough," even. I guess I could say that sometimes people just require a reality check, but social media isn't the best way to handle that in a normal situation.
Who do you think is better off for it?
-Nobody.
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
-Not usually.
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
-The latter, if I understand "yourself" to be a general term not directed at me personally.
Definitely in the generic and not directed at you personally.
Sounds like you and I agree that providing that kind of criticism is generally a waste of time and has no real upside, for anybody.
Well, if anyone is looking logically at the situation, they would see that I'm right and not being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
Thanks for injecting that logical fallacy and attempting to insult people that disagree with your standpoint on this one.
"Logically", your public criticism of somebody's situation:
a) probably isn't going to be received well by that person
and
b) probably isn't going to be perceived positively by others
So logically, it makes sense to just leave it alone, and save yourself the potential backlash of being perceived as said "douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag".
You are no better off for having pointed out your perceived error in that person's situation or choices.
That person is likely to be no better off, because they are going to think you're just an asshole, and will ignore you.
The people supporting them will likely be no better off, because if they're actually giving money to somebody they probably have some level of personal interaction with them and may well be closer to the situation than you are, on the outside looking in.
There is no noble purpose that is served by what you claim to see as the right thing to do...
Well, if anyone is looking logically at the situation, they would see that I'm right and not being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
Thanks for injecting that logical fallacy and attempting to insult people that disagree with your standpoint on this one.
"Logically", your public criticism of somebody's situation:
a) probably isn't going to be received well by that person
and
b) probably isn't going to be perceived positively by others
So logically, it makes sense to just leave it alone, and save yourself the potential backlash of being perceived as said "douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag".
You are no better off for having pointed out your perceived error in that person's situation or choices.
That person is likely to be no better off, because they are going to think you're just an asshole, and will ignore you.
The people supporting them will likely be no better off, because if they're actually giving money to somebody they probably have some level of personal interaction with them and may well be closer to the situation than you are, on the outside looking in.
There is no noble purpose that is served by what you claim to see as the right thing to do...
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
We appear to be at an impass.
The person I will comment to will at least know people see the hypocrisy.
The people who have donated can now see the hyprocrisy.
I never said it was the "right thing to do", I said that giving your opinion is okay as it's been invited.
Whether that opinion is right or wrong is irrelevant. I think I'm right, yes. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that I have all the right answers to life.
I simply have my opinions (in this case they can be "logically" justified because there is a financial basis to them). If I can't share those with someone who's asked me publicly for money, then that person should not have shared their situation with the world in the first place.
As indicated by Snowsauce... there's far more private avenues you could take.
The only difference is, if you take care of things privately you will msot likely have to pay your bills yourself.
But if you go public (GFM) then by golly, someone else will pay your bills for you! And who doesn't want that?
Everyone does.
So maybe I should have started a GFM for my student loan. Damn I wish I did.
I think I'll start a GFM for my grocery bills, too. Why should I have to pay my bills??? Car loan anyone? There's a GFM for that!
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
-In terms of constructive? There usually isn't one, in reality anyway. Sometimes people do it just to make themselves look good or "tough," even. I guess I could say that sometimes people just require a reality check, but social media isn't the best way to handle that in a normal situation.
Who do you think is better off for it?
-Nobody.
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
-Not usually.
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
-The latter, if I understand "yourself" to be a general term not directed at me personally.
Definitely in the generic and not directed at you personally.
Sounds like you and I agree that providing that kind of criticism is generally a waste of time and has no real upside, for anybody.
I didn't think it was a personal jab, I just like to cover the bases
We certainly agree on the practical application of commenting on other people's lives through the internet. It doesn't serve any constructive purpose, and it's not something I'm a fan of and I try not to partake in.
I've found that muting annoying people is a far better practice.
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
...
But if you go public (GFM) then by golly, someone else will pay your bills for you! And who doesn't want that?
Everyone does.
So maybe I should have started a GFM for my student loan. Damn I wish I did.
I think I'll start a GFM for my grocery bills, too. Why should I have to pay my bills??? Car loan anyone? There's a GFM for that!
You're making an awfully big blanket assumption of people who have asked for money on GoFundMe.
Well no... that's what the GFM is. An ask for money.
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism. I'm simply saying that there are SOME that exist when a person could be taking care of their own bills. As stated above, there's many options for people who need liquid cash. Living a more "simple life" is one of those things.
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
We appear to be at an impass.
I thought your point was about whether a person publicly posting their situation opened them up to a publicly posted critique of their situation.
(going by what you chose to put in bold in your OP)
My point was that it generally isn't socially acceptable, which, in turn, makes you out to look like an asshole when you do publicly post a critique of somebody's situation.
If you separately want to make the point that asking for help paying bills while a person wastes their other money is bad, I'll agree to that point. (but that isn't what we were going back-and-forth about)
Well no... that's what the GFM is. An ask for money.
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism. I'm simply saying that there are SOME that exist when a person could be taking care of their own bills. As stated above, there's many options for people who need liquid cash. Living a more "simple life" is one of those things.
Yes, it is an ask for money.
But how do you know they haven't exhausted those options already? (Or have been turned down?)
One thing about people in desperate spots is that the "system" is often designed to keep them in that spot (i.e., overdraft fees that keep them in debt, unable to secure favorable loans, etc.)
But how do you know they haven't exhausted those options already? (Or have been turned down?)
One thing about people in desperate spots is that the "system" is often designed to keep them in that spot (i.e., overdraft fees that keep them in debt, unable to secure favorable loans, etc.)
Totally separate topic here... but you are posting a viewpoint that is ascribing some kind of evil social engineering to what is much more accurately attributable to pursuit of profit and seeking to mitigate credit risk.
Overdraft fees, while they definitely prey on the lower classes having less money in their account, are not some kind of attempt to "keep people in their place" via "the system". They are purely motivated by profit.
And poor people have bad access to favorable loans because favorable loans require you to be a good credit risk. (which they, objectively, are not)
Is it bad? Sure.
But is it literally "designed to keep them in that spot"? No. That is not a design consideration, at all, in either case.
Well no... that's what the GFM is. An ask for money.
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism. I'm simply saying that there are SOME that exist when a person could be taking care of their own bills. As stated above, there's many options for people who need liquid cash. Living a more "simple life" is one of those things.
Yes, it is an ask for money.
But how do you know they haven't exhausted those options already? (Or have been turned down?)
One thing about people in desperate spots is that the "system" is often designed to keep them in that spot (i.e., overdraft fees that keep them in debt, unable to secure favorable loans, etc.)
Their twitter account, and what they've done since the GFM, is a pretty good indication that they're not being fiscally responsible (nor have ever been).
But you're right. There are some things I can't know. Bank Loans, etc.
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: AirVillain
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
We appear to be at an impass.
I thought your point was about whether a person publicly posting their situation opened them up to a publicly posted critique of their situation.
(going by what you chose to put in bold in your OP)
My point was that it generally isn't socially acceptable, which, in turn, makes you out to look like an asshole when you do publicly post a critique of somebody's situation.
If you separately want to make the point that asking for help paying bills while a person wastes their other money is bad, I'll agree to that point. (but that isn't what we were going back-and-forth about)
Okay, my bad... I was specifically talking about pointing it out when there's valid reason to do so.
What asshole would harsh on someone who actually needed the money? Not me
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: AirVillain
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism.
You certainly appear to be saying that, throughout the thread.
If that wasn't your intention, I think you were misunderstood by many...
Well, if there's no reason to say anything, then... I wouldn't.
I guess I just figured that was common sense.
I understand what you mean though. Some people may think there's a "good reason" to say something, and others wouldn't.
I'm specifially talking about people who are deserved of some sort of criticism.
Afterall, if there's nothing to criticize, then there'd be no point in commenting.
And in my Orignal Post, I did make it clear that what would be pointed out would be something hypocritical from the person asking for the money through the GFM.
So, obviusly, if there's no hypocrisy, there's nothing to comment on.
Totally separate topic here... but you are posting a viewpoint that is ascribing some kind of evil social engineering to what is much more accurately attributable to pursuit of profit and seeking to mitigate credit risk.
Overdraft fees, while they definitely prey on the lower classes having less money in their account, are not some kind of attempt to "keep people in their place" via "the system". They are purely motivated by profit.
And poor people have bad access to favorable loans because favorable loans require you to be a good credit risk. (which they, objectively, are not)
That's why I put the "system" in quotes. I'm aware it isn't designed as a Machiavellian scheme, but it is designed to work the way it does (for profit), and it does, intentionally or not, keep a significant number of people from attaining any sort of upward mobility.
It's not a statement on the evils of corporations, but more of a rebuttal to "why can't those poor people just earn enough money to not be poor?" argument.
Their twitter account, and what they've done since the GFM, is a pretty good indication that they're not being fiscally responsible (nor have ever been).
But you're right. There are some things I can't know. Bank Loans, etc.
At that point you decide whether to contribute or not (unless you don't contribute to GFMs at all, which is fine. Seriously.)
You can announce that you think it is hypocritical, but given the dude asking for help with his cancer patients on one side and you saying you don't like it on the other, as Arch said, you come across as the inconsiderate asshole in that situation.
Their twitter account, and what they've done since the GFM, is a pretty good indication that they're not being fiscally responsible (nor have ever been).
But you're right. There are some things I can't know. Bank Loans, etc.
At that point you decide whether to contribute or not (unless you don't contribute to GFMs at all, which is fine. Seriously.)
You can announce that you think it is hypocritical, but given the dude asking for help with his cancer patients on one side and you saying you don't like it on the other, as Arch said, you come across as the inconsiderate asshole in that situation.
1) I didn't say anything about someon with cancer...
2) Inconsiderate asshole, or Robin Hood for the ACTUAL poor people in the world?
Comments
If a person posts something on social media, it's open to public critique. That simple.
If a person doesn't want to be critiqued by the public, there are more than enough avenues to discuss matters in a private manner where public critique is not socially acceptable.
If you don't want your neighbors to complain about your dirty laundry, it's best not to light it on fire in your front yard and run circles around it.
And similarly, a person who posts a critique is generally going to look like an asshole to everybody that reads it.
If a person posts something on social media, it's open to public critique. That simple.
If a person doesn't want to be critiqued by the public, there are more than enough avenues to discuss matters in a private manner where public critique is not socially acceptable.
If you don't want your neighbors to complain about your dirty laundry, it's best not to light it on fire in your front yard and run circles around it.
And similarly, a person who posts a critique is generally going to look like an asshole to everybody that reads it.
It depends.
But yes, the person responding is just as allowed to be judged.
If a person posts something on social media, it's open to public critique. That simple.
If a person doesn't want to be critiqued by the public, there are more than enough avenues to discuss matters in a private manner where public critique is not socially acceptable.
If you don't want your neighbors to complain about your dirty laundry, it's best not to light it on fire in your front yard and run circles around it.
And similarly, a person who posts a critique is generally going to look like an asshole to everybody that reads it.
It depends.
But yes, the person responding is just as allowed to be judged.
I read that as "AirVillain is an asshole", haha... which I sometimes can be.
But I agree... that person can be just as responsible for being a jerk.
The thing to me is... we're so freakin' priveleged here and it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
I read that as "AirVillain is an asshole", haha... which I sometimes can be.
But I agree... that person can be just as responsible for being a jerk.
The thing to me is... we're so freakin' priveleged here and it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
That doesn't really excuse being an asshole to somebody because you disagree with their life choices.
The thing is, publicly posting an unsolicited critique of somebody's circumstances/choices is pretty much GUARANTEED to make you look like a jerk, and carries a pretty similar guarantee that it's going to be ignored by the person, making it an unconstructive thing to do, anyway.
Sometimes people are just venting for some catharsis.
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
I read that as "AirVillain is an asshole", haha... which I sometimes can be.
But I agree... that person can be just as responsible for being a jerk.
The thing to me is... we're so freakin' priveleged here and it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist.
That doesn't really excuse being an asshole to somebody because you disagree with their life choices.
The thing is, publicly posting an unsolicited critique of somebody's circumstances/choices is pretty much GUARANTEED to make you look like a jerk, and carries a pretty similar guarantee that it's going to be ignored by the person, making it an unconstructive thing to do, anyway.
Sometimes people are just venting for some catharsis.
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
But... asking for money IS soliciting. So, someone is asking for money, but won't accept any comments regarding the hypocritical and entitled nature of their situation? I'm specifially speaking of GFM's here.
Just venting is a little different, so I understand what you're saying.
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
But... asking for money IS soliciting. So, someone is asking for money, but won't accept any comments regarding the hypocritical and entitled nature of their situation? I'm specifially speaking of GFM's here.
Just venting is a little different, so I understand what you're saying.
There are a couple of subtopics being covered in the thread.
1) somebody posting on a forum or social media with a complaint about life circumstances (that may very well be due to their poor decision making)
2) somebody soliciting funds on GoFundMe
For the former, it is essentially always inappropriate to chime in with negative commentary, and you are guaranteed to look like an ass for doing so.
For the latter, it is still generally inappropriate to chime in with criticism, since you could JUST AS EASILY keep your opinion to yourself, and be no worse off, while not potentially looking like a jerk.
The person presumably is using that platform to request support from people interested in providing support.
Not to seek antagonism from people that disagree with them.
(i.e. soliciting funds is not the same thing as actively soliciting voiced criticism)
If you don't like them, or their choices, then don't support them financially... simple as that.
Voicing your opinion about them really serves no purpose.
And when something that is going to offend them, and make you look bad, serves no purpose, what is the point of doing it?
If something is criticized (or critiqued, poor word choice on my part), that person is more than welcome to be viewed as an arse.
Neither party gets a free pass from being judged.
If a post is made in a public forum, it's allowed to be criticized. That doesn't mean it should be criticized, or there is anything gained based on doing so.
If something is criticized (or critiqued, poor word choice on my part), that person is more than welcome to be viewed as an arse.
Neither party gets a free pass from being judged.
Depends on how you're using the term "allowed"...
"Allowed" as in legal? Sure
"Allowed" as in socially acceptable?
Depends on what part of the country you're in, it seems, as to how much of a jerk you appear to be to somebody reading your criticism.
But I think the point remains, that publicly posting criticism or judgment of somebody's pleas or complaints serves very little purpose, if any.
(and as such certainly seems pointless to where erring on the side of being more polite would be better for everybody)
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
Who do you think is better off for it?
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
The quick summary is: it is socially acceptable to publicly give your opinion on somebody's choices or circumstances when they ask for it.
Otherwise, you just look like a jerk.
But... asking for money IS soliciting. So, someone is asking for money, but won't accept any comments regarding the hypocritical and entitled nature of their situation? I'm specifially speaking of GFM's here.
Just venting is a little different, so I understand what you're saying.
There are a couple of subtopics being covered in the thread.
1) somebody posting on a forum or social media with a complaint about life circumstances (that may very well be due to their poor decision making)
2) somebody soliciting funds on GoFundMe
For the former, it is essentially always inappropriate to chime in with negative commentary, and you are guaranteed to look like an ass for doing so.
For the latter, it is still generally inappropriate to chime in with criticism, since you could JUST AS EASILY keep your opinion to yourself, and be no worse off, while not potentially looking like a jerk.
The person presumably is using that platform to request support from people interested in providing support.
Not to seek antagonism from people that disagree with them.
(i.e. soliciting funds is not the same thing as actively soliciting voiced criticism)
If you don't like them, or their choices, then don't support them financially... simple as that.
Voicing your opinion about them really serves no purpose.
And when something that is going to offend them, and make you look bad, serves no purpose, what is the point of doing it?
Agreed about #1.
In regards to #2.... So the person sees the hypocrisy of their ways. And so that others, who have donated money, know exactly how that person is spending the money that's been donated to them.
Especially when that persons says one thing, and does another that is in clear opposition that their Go Fund Me has indicated.
In regards to #2.... So the person sees the hypocrisy of their ways. And so that others, who have donated money, know exactly how that person is spending the money that's been donated to them.
Especially when that persons says one thing, and does another that is in clear opposition that their Go Fund Me has indicated.
If it's about the person "seeing the hypocrisy of their ways", wouldn't it make more sense to provide that criticism privately, in a more constructive and less adversarial way?
I just don't see somebody being generally receptive to what is likely to be perceived as flaming from a random judgmental asshole.
For GoFundMe's related to people covering medical bills and mystery illnesses... I just don't think there is any way that you're going to publicly post criticism of the person's spending or actions that isn't going to make you look like an unempathetic jerk to most people (which won't serve your purposes, either)
In regards to #2.... So the person sees the hypocrisy of their ways. And so that others, who have donated money, know exactly how that person is spending the money that's been donated to them.
Especially when that persons says one thing, and does another that is in clear opposition that their Go Fund Me has indicated.
If it's about the person "seeing the hypocrisy of their ways", wouldn't it make more sense to provide that criticism privately, in a more constructive and less adversarial way?
I just don't see somebody being generally receptive to what is likely to be perceived as flaming from a random judgmental asshole.
For GoFundMe's related to people covering medical bills and mystery illnesses... I just don't think there is any way that you're going to publicly post criticism of the person's spending or actions that isn't going to make you look like an unempathetic jerk to most people (which won't serve your purposes, either)
I just think if people are going to ask me for money, they can handle a little "advice".
Well, if anyone is looking logically at the situation, they would see that I'm right and not being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
I just want to point out that the reason for saying anything is mostly the last part of my statement.... so that people who donated can become more aware, and possibly take a look at where their money is going. Also to show people thinking of donating how the money is being spent.
If you donate money (to anything) you want to know that your money is being used wisely, no? I'm not a big fan of donating money to people who 1) could support themselves and 2) are already better off than the vast majority of the world.
#firstworldproblems, in other words.
I mean, really... there's entire COUNTRIES that could use donations for food/clothing/shelter. The people asking for money for medical bills are basically saying "I refuse to change the way I live to pay for my own bills, so I'll ask you for money." These people could easily take out loans, use credit cards, or part with their belongings, or live in a more reasonable accomodation.
These are all things that people do when they need money. Just because it's for medical reasons, doesn't mean they should have to live by a different set of rules.
You owe money. Pay for it yourself.
I guess my questions are:
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
-In terms of constructive? There usually isn't one, in reality anyway. Sometimes people do it just to make themselves look good or "tough," even. I guess I could say that sometimes people just require a reality check, but social media isn't the best way to handle that in a normal situation.
Who do you think is better off for it?
-Nobody.
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
-Not usually.
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
-The latter, if I understand "yourself" to be a general term not directed at me personally.
I guess my questions are:
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
-In terms of constructive? There usually isn't one, in reality anyway. Sometimes people do it just to make themselves look good or "tough," even. I guess I could say that sometimes people just require a reality check, but social media isn't the best way to handle that in a normal situation.
Who do you think is better off for it?
-Nobody.
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
-Not usually.
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
-The latter, if I understand "yourself" to be a general term not directed at me personally.
Definitely in the generic and not directed at you personally.
Sounds like you and I agree that providing that kind of criticism is generally a waste of time and has no real upside, for anybody.
Well, if anyone is looking logically at the situation, they would see that I'm right and not being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
Thanks for injecting that logical fallacy and attempting to insult people that disagree with your standpoint on this one.
"Logically", your public criticism of somebody's situation:
a) probably isn't going to be received well by that person
and
b) probably isn't going to be perceived positively by others
So logically, it makes sense to just leave it alone, and save yourself the potential backlash of being perceived as said "douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag".
You are no better off for having pointed out your perceived error in that person's situation or choices.
That person is likely to be no better off, because they are going to think you're just an asshole, and will ignore you.
The people supporting them will likely be no better off, because if they're actually giving money to somebody they probably have some level of personal interaction with them and may well be closer to the situation than you are, on the outside looking in.
There is no noble purpose that is served by what you claim to see as the right thing to do...
Arch, love ya man but I can't resist here
People know what they're getting into when they reply to me
Well, if anyone is looking logically at the situation, they would see that I'm right and not being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
Thanks for injecting that logical fallacy and attempting to insult people that disagree with your standpoint on this one.
"Logically", your public criticism of somebody's situation:
a) probably isn't going to be received well by that person
and
b) probably isn't going to be perceived positively by others
So logically, it makes sense to just leave it alone, and save yourself the potential backlash of being perceived as said "douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag".
You are no better off for having pointed out your perceived error in that person's situation or choices.
That person is likely to be no better off, because they are going to think you're just an asshole, and will ignore you.
The people supporting them will likely be no better off, because if they're actually giving money to somebody they probably have some level of personal interaction with them and may well be closer to the situation than you are, on the outside looking in.
There is no noble purpose that is served by what you claim to see as the right thing to do...
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
We appear to be at an impass.
The person I will comment to will at least know people see the hypocrisy.
The people who have donated can now see the hyprocrisy.
I never said it was the "right thing to do", I said that giving your opinion is okay as it's been invited.
Whether that opinion is right or wrong is irrelevant. I think I'm right, yes. But I'm not stupid enough to believe that I have all the right answers to life.
I simply have my opinions (in this case they can be "logically" justified because there is a financial basis to them). If I can't share those with someone who's asked me publicly for money, then that person should not have shared their situation with the world in the first place.
As indicated by Snowsauce... there's far more private avenues you could take.
The only difference is, if you take care of things privately you will msot likely have to pay your bills yourself.
But if you go public (GFM) then by golly, someone else will pay your bills for you! And who doesn't want that?
Everyone does.
So maybe I should have started a GFM for my student loan. Damn I wish I did.
I think I'll start a GFM for my grocery bills, too. Why should I have to pay my bills??? Car loan anyone? There's a GFM for that!
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
...
But if you go public (GFM) then by golly, someone else will pay your bills for you! And who doesn't want that?
Everyone does.
So maybe I should have started a GFM for my student loan. Damn I wish I did.
I think I'll start a GFM for my grocery bills, too. Why should I have to pay my bills??? Car loan anyone? There's a GFM for that!
You're making an awfully big blanket assumption of people who have asked for money on GoFundMe.
I guess my questions are:
What is the purpose of providing the criticism/judgment in the first place?
-In terms of constructive? There usually isn't one, in reality anyway. Sometimes people do it just to make themselves look good or "tough," even. I guess I could say that sometimes people just require a reality check, but social media isn't the best way to handle that in a normal situation.
Who do you think is better off for it?
-Nobody.
Do you actually believe it will be received in a constructive way?
-Not usually.
Is it actually being provided to be helpful and not to just make yourself feel superior?
-The latter, if I understand "yourself" to be a general term not directed at me personally.
Definitely in the generic and not directed at you personally.
Sounds like you and I agree that providing that kind of criticism is generally a waste of time and has no real upside, for anybody.
I didn't think it was a personal jab, I just like to cover the bases
We certainly agree on the practical application of commenting on other people's lives through the internet. It doesn't serve any constructive purpose, and it's not something I'm a fan of and I try not to partake in.
I've found that muting annoying people is a far better practice.
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
...
But if you go public (GFM) then by golly, someone else will pay your bills for you! And who doesn't want that?
Everyone does.
So maybe I should have started a GFM for my student loan. Damn I wish I did.
I think I'll start a GFM for my grocery bills, too. Why should I have to pay my bills??? Car loan anyone? There's a GFM for that!
You're making an awfully big blanket assumption of people who have asked for money on GoFundMe.
Well no... that's what the GFM is. An ask for money.
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism. I'm simply saying that there are SOME that exist when a person could be taking care of their own bills. As stated above, there's many options for people who need liquid cash. Living a more "simple life" is one of those things.
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
We appear to be at an impass.
I thought your point was about whether a person publicly posting their situation opened them up to a publicly posted critique of their situation.
(going by what you chose to put in bold in your OP)
My point was that it generally isn't socially acceptable, which, in turn, makes you out to look like an asshole when you do publicly post a critique of somebody's situation.
If you separately want to make the point that asking for help paying bills while a person wastes their other money is bad, I'll agree to that point. (but that isn't what we were going back-and-forth about)
Well no... that's what the GFM is. An ask for money.
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism. I'm simply saying that there are SOME that exist when a person could be taking care of their own bills. As stated above, there's many options for people who need liquid cash. Living a more "simple life" is one of those things.
Yes, it is an ask for money.
But how do you know they haven't exhausted those options already? (Or have been turned down?)
One thing about people in desperate spots is that the "system" is often designed to keep them in that spot (i.e., overdraft fees that keep them in debt, unable to secure favorable loans, etc.)
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism.
You certainly appear to be saying that, throughout the thread.
If that wasn't your intention, I think you were misunderstood by many...
Yes, it is an ask for money.
But how do you know they haven't exhausted those options already? (Or have been turned down?)
One thing about people in desperate spots is that the "system" is often designed to keep them in that spot (i.e., overdraft fees that keep them in debt, unable to secure favorable loans, etc.)
Totally separate topic here... but you are posting a viewpoint that is ascribing some kind of evil social engineering to what is much more accurately attributable to pursuit of profit and seeking to mitigate credit risk.
Overdraft fees, while they definitely prey on the lower classes having less money in their account, are not some kind of attempt to "keep people in their place" via "the system". They are purely motivated by profit.
And poor people have bad access to favorable loans because favorable loans require you to be a good credit risk. (which they, objectively, are not)
Is it bad? Sure.
But is it literally "designed to keep them in that spot"? No. That is not a design consideration, at all, in either case.
Well no... that's what the GFM is. An ask for money.
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism. I'm simply saying that there are SOME that exist when a person could be taking care of their own bills. As stated above, there's many options for people who need liquid cash. Living a more "simple life" is one of those things.
Yes, it is an ask for money.
But how do you know they haven't exhausted those options already? (Or have been turned down?)
One thing about people in desperate spots is that the "system" is often designed to keep them in that spot (i.e., overdraft fees that keep them in debt, unable to secure favorable loans, etc.)
Their twitter account, and what they've done since the GFM, is a pretty good indication that they're not being fiscally responsible (nor have ever been).
But you're right. There are some things I can't know. Bank Loans, etc.
Asking someone else to pay for your bills while you continue to waste your money is illogical. That's my point (which you seem to have missed).
We appear to be at an impass.
I thought your point was about whether a person publicly posting their situation opened them up to a publicly posted critique of their situation.
(going by what you chose to put in bold in your OP)
My point was that it generally isn't socially acceptable, which, in turn, makes you out to look like an asshole when you do publicly post a critique of somebody's situation.
If you separately want to make the point that asking for help paying bills while a person wastes their other money is bad, I'll agree to that point. (but that isn't what we were going back-and-forth about)
Okay, my bad... I was specifically talking about pointing it out when there's valid reason to do so.
What asshole would harsh on someone who actually needed the money? Not me
And I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE Go Fund Me is open for criticism.
You certainly appear to be saying that, throughout the thread.
If that wasn't your intention, I think you were misunderstood by many...
Well, if there's no reason to say anything, then... I wouldn't.
I guess I just figured that was common sense.
I understand what you mean though. Some people may think there's a "good reason" to say something, and others wouldn't.
I'm specifially talking about people who are deserved of some sort of criticism.
Afterall, if there's nothing to criticize, then there'd be no point in commenting.
And in my Orignal Post, I did make it clear that what would be pointed out would be something hypocritical from the person asking for the money through the GFM.
So, obviusly, if there's no hypocrisy, there's nothing to comment on.
Totally separate topic here... but you are posting a viewpoint that is ascribing some kind of evil social engineering to what is much more accurately attributable to pursuit of profit and seeking to mitigate credit risk.
Overdraft fees, while they definitely prey on the lower classes having less money in their account, are not some kind of attempt to "keep people in their place" via "the system". They are purely motivated by profit.
And poor people have bad access to favorable loans because favorable loans require you to be a good credit risk. (which they, objectively, are not)
That's why I put the "system" in quotes. I'm aware it isn't designed as a Machiavellian scheme, but it is designed to work the way it does (for profit), and it does, intentionally or not, keep a significant number of people from attaining any sort of upward mobility.
It's not a statement on the evils of corporations, but more of a rebuttal to "why can't those poor people just earn enough money to not be poor?" argument.
Their twitter account, and what they've done since the GFM, is a pretty good indication that they're not being fiscally responsible (nor have ever been).
But you're right. There are some things I can't know. Bank Loans, etc.
At that point you decide whether to contribute or not (unless you don't contribute to GFMs at all, which is fine. Seriously.)
You can announce that you think it is hypocritical, but given the dude asking for help with his cancer patients on one side and you saying you don't like it on the other, as Arch said, you come across as the inconsiderate asshole in that situation.
Their twitter account, and what they've done since the GFM, is a pretty good indication that they're not being fiscally responsible (nor have ever been).
But you're right. There are some things I can't know. Bank Loans, etc.
At that point you decide whether to contribute or not (unless you don't contribute to GFMs at all, which is fine. Seriously.)
You can announce that you think it is hypocritical, but given the dude asking for help with his cancer patients on one side and you saying you don't like it on the other, as Arch said, you come across as the inconsiderate asshole in that situation.
1) I didn't say anything about someon with cancer...
2) Inconsiderate asshole, or Robin Hood for the ACTUAL poor people in the world?
Just pointing out the #firstworldproblems
1) I didn't say anything about someon with cancer...
2) Inconsiderate asshole, or Robin Hood for the ACTUAL poor people in the world?
Just pointing out the #firstworldproblems
1) was just an extreme example, but those people are on Gofundme.
2) Is the money they're contributing actually making its way to the ACTUAL poor people, Sir Robin of Locksley?
Just because it's #firstworldproblems doesn't mean that people can't give to solve those problems if they want.