lol...I can't stop laughing over this. I mean shame the game was smashed like that and the buyer is an asshole but...wow yeah overkill with the FBI. I think they have a lot more on their plate then eBay issues.
Of course eBay sided with the buyer, like of course... it's awful, really. EBay's user contract should just include a section stating "as the seller, you accept any and all returns, regardless of reason or rationale, and accept all liability if fraud is attempted against you, regardless of any contradicting evidence".
People say you wasted your time, but the only reason your time is "wasted" is because eBay is fucked when it comes to protecting sellers. If a seller could actually escalate, AND WIN, it wouldn't be seen as a waste of time to fight a buyer's BS returns. It would likely still be harder than just returning, cancelling , etc., but at least sellers would have some ground to stand on.
the worst part is they side with a 1 feedback buyer over a 10,000 feedback top rated seller. I know everyone starts somewhere, but a persons record and status on the site should carry some weight when its he said she said stuff. Its common sense really. I dont get ebay. As a seller w/ tons of feedback I should be more important to them than a newb scamming buyer. But it just doesnt work that way.
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
How have I been salty? I'm not reporting people to the FBI... Edit: Actually, I recall reaching out to people saying they dislike me and trying to make things good.
It was a joke. You've had a more aggressive tone lately in some threads but I never thought bad of you for it.
Not saying you did. I'm genuinely curious why you got that vibe. I like you. Wasn't trying to start shit. If it's about Bert, we are friendly competitors. Talk shit in threads but friendly in PMs. Same for the high score thread. Talking shit to talk shit but there is no ill will.
On the FBI thing, it's not as heavy handed a response as it sounds. I was scammed on eBay a while ago where the seller shipped an empty box to my local town hall so they would have delivery confirmation of a package in my zip code. Originally eBay ruled in the seller's favor, but I appealed and won. One of the conditions of the appeal was that I had to file an IC3 Internet Crime Complaint with the FBI. It's a simple one page online complaint form and probably doesn't ever get followed up on, but it's something I had to do.
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
I agree with this, but that can't be applied to the situation given here, since they had wanted to cancel the transaction and the seller refused.
On the FBI thing, it's not as heavy handed a response as it sounds. I was scammed on eBay a while ago where the seller shipped an empty box to my local town hall so they would have delivery confirmation of a package in my zip code. Originally eBay ruled in the seller's favor, but I appealed and won. One of the conditions of the appeal was that I had to file an IC3 Internet Crime Complaint with the FBI. It's a simple one page online complaint form and probably doesn't ever get followed up on, but it's something I had to do.
Yup! I think people are hearing FBI and have the wrong idea of how it works and what it involves. Tim was pissed and was trying to do everything he could to have this guy have some kind of responsibility after he burned him. Rightfully so, i would be annoyed too. For the person to smash the game like that.......that takes a special kind of asshole. I think i would probably be even more mad at ebay that they allow this behavior to happen.
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
This.
And I know I don't have a lot of numbers or flashy symbols next to my name and I haven't been a member on here for long at all, so I expect to be crucified for what I'm about to say. But this site is for opinions and I'm going to share mine.
Yes, op is in the right, this was definitely a case of fraud and the buyer is shitty, no doubt about it. But that whole bit where you're trying to throw your weight around is such a turn off. It's awesome you have such a great collection, anyone that's spent a good chunk of time in this hobby knows your name and knows you have a significantly valuable and rare game collection. But reading your linked interactions with this buyer make it seem like it might have gotten to your head a little bit. I actually cringed when you started talking about how pat has done a podcast on you, and the threat of contacting pat to possibly do a podcast on this situation is insane. I can't believe I'm the first in this post to mention that, and I'm sure others were thinking it but were apprehensive to say anything.
I've read about you hooking people up with amazing prices with things they need, and some people actually talk about you like you're Christ-like in this hobby. I don't see it here. Tbh, nothing but controversy comes up recently when your name is involved. This seems like an immense waist of time and efforts for little to no gain. Yes principle, I know, but where do you draw the line? There's a point where this went from righteous to almost schoolyard. This just comes off as immature, calling the fbi and pat the nes punk to come fight for super pinball? I bet the buyer is shaking in their shoes...it's a game. Goddamn, this shit is supposed to be fun. Honestly, sealed cases of practically everything, but selling super pinball when cash is needed? Sell what you want, you dont need me to tell you that that's not gonna draw the top tier type of respectable buyers...
On the FBI thing, it's not as heavy handed a response as it sounds. I was scammed on eBay a while ago where the seller shipped an empty box to my local town hall so they would have delivery confirmation of a package in my zip code. Originally eBay ruled in the seller's favor, but I appealed and won. One of the conditions of the appeal was that I had to file an IC3 Internet Crime Complaint with the FBI. It's a simple one page online complaint form and probably doesn't ever get followed up on, but it's something I had to do.
Yup! I think people are hearing FBI and have the wrong idea of how it works and what it involves. Tim was pissed and was trying to do everything he could to have this guy have some kind of responsibility after he burned him. Rightfully so, i would be annoyed too. For the person to smash the game like that.......that takes a special kind of asshole. I think i would probably be even more mad at ebay that they allow this behavior to happen.
I added ebay in this FBI complaint. If these POS did it this time, how many others have they fucked over similarily? No one really knows because people don't speak out or take appropriate actions. "Jill" probably thought I wouldn't do much, but I may not be done yet. I think I might file a complaint with their county sheriff/prosecutor. She is a crook plain and simple. Taking a stand.....
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
This. And I know I don't have a lot of numbers or flashy symbols next to my name and I haven't been a member on here for long at all, so I expect to be crucified for what I'm about to say. But this site is for opinions and I'm going to share mine. Yes, op is in the right, this was definitely a case of fraud and the buyer is shitty, no doubt about it. But that whole bit where you're trying to throw your weight around is such a turn off. It's awesome you have such a great collection, anyone that's spent a good chunk of time in this hobby knows your name and knows you have a significantly valuable and rare game collection. But reading your linked interactions with this buyer make it seem like it might have gotten to your head a little bit. I actually cringed when you started talking about how pat has done a podcast on you, and the threat of contacting pat to possibly do a podcast on this situation is insane. I can't believe I'm the first in this post to mention that, and I'm sure others were thinking it but were apprehensive to say anything. I've read about you hooking people up with amazing prices with things they need, and some people actually talk about you like you're Christ-like in this hobby. I don't see it here. Tbh, nothing but controversy comes up recently when your name is involved. This seems like an immense waist of time and efforts for little to no gain. Yes principle, I know, but where do you draw the line? There's a point where this went from righteous to almost schoolyard. This just comes off as immature, calling the fbi and pat the nes punk to come fight for super pinball? I bet the buyer is shaking in their shoes...it's a game. Goddamn, this shit is supposed to be fun. Honestly, sealed cases of practically everything, but selling super pinball when cash is needed? Sell what you want, you dont need me to tell you that that's not gonna draw the top tier type of respectable buyers...
Boy, you sure are long winded. This isn't about a game or value. A crook is a crook is a crook...... If someone owns a store and someone stole something, I doubt the store owner would care if it was a $ .50 pack of gum or a $100 coat. They would call the police and the thief would be changed with shoplifting.
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back or they are complaining about something you clearly described or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back , and they are complaining about something you clearly are missing or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
That isn't true. Rather I should say that it hasn't been true for me. I win 90% of the time. Did lose the last case (which was total bs) but I can't remember losing one before that one.
The key for me has been to do something before ebay makes a decision. The one time I lost I waited till ebay made a decision because I thought it was a slam dunk. Got the same replies as the OP did. I'll never do that again. Soon as there is a sign of a problem call ebay and get them to document it.
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back , and they are complaining about something you clearly are missing or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
That isn't true. Rather I should say that it hasn't been true for me. I win 90% of the time. Did lose the last case (which was total bs) but I can't remember losing one before that one.
The key for me has been to do something before ebay makes a decision. The one time I lost I waited till ebay made a decision because I thought it was a slam dunk. Got the same replies as the OP did. I'll never do that again. Soon as there is a sign of a problem call ebay and get them to document it.
Well I dont know what to tell you. I call all the time before it ends. They refuse to do anything and telling me to accept the return even when its clear as day should be ruled for me. Ive spent hours and hours on the phone with ebay over the years. Ive maybe had them help me or side with me 5-10 times over atleast a couple hundred issues where buyers were screwing me over. If they return it, you have to eat it. Its just what it is.
I had a person buy a ps2, week after they received it claimed it arrived in shipping fine. No damage. But now it had a damaged corner where the eject button was. Impossible to miss until a week later. I.E. They dropped it and wanted to return it. Had messages saying it wasnt shipping related, and had pictures of the ps2 from all angles in the listing with no damage. After being on the phone, ebay said I had to accept the return and refund them.
If youve had different results you are a very lucky SOB and its not typical
Id need to hear in detail each case, because if there is a reason you are winning a case, it would be obvious after hearing. There are cases you can win. But not in this atwood case. You wont ever win.
The title and listing is confusing. The description is totally clear with the bright red text and everything. But aside from intent (because I don't think you're trying to con your buyers) how is this auction really different from that lady who lists Nintendo Power #1 and sends out a few loose pages? Both examples have misleading photos and titles, but very clear descriptions.
The buyer was wrong to damage the game, but I can see how they might have felt cheated and consequently felt their actions were (dishonestly) warranted, especially if they thought there was no other way to get their money back. $100 is not a small amount to just write off on a bad purchase (at least not for everyone). The situation sucks, but I can see how the buyer and seller were both frustrated and let their anger control the situation. Personally if I were selling that game I'd title it something like NEW SEALED GAME SINGLE COPY (CASE NOT INCLUDED) [I realize the auction states 1 GAME but it's easy to overlook]. I'd also make sure to include front and back photos of the game by itself in addition to the shot of the game in front of the case. More photos just equals more protection for you, and helps sell the auction to smarter, more cautious buyers (the kind that don't immediately panic and demand their money back).
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back , and they are complaining about something you clearly are missing or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
That isn't true. Rather I should say that it hasn't been true for me. I win 90% of the time. Did lose the last case (which was total bs) but I can't remember losing one before that one.
The key for me has been to do something before ebay makes a decision. The one time I lost I waited till ebay made a decision because I thought it was a slam dunk. Got the same replies as the OP did. I'll never do that again. Soon as there is a sign of a problem call ebay and get them to document it.
Well I dont know what to tell you. I call all the time before it ends. They refuse to do anything and telling me to accept the return even when its clear as day should be ruled for me. Ive spent hours and hours on the phone with ebay over the years. Ive maybe had them help me or side with me 5-10 times over atleast a couple hundred issues where buyers were screwing me over. If they return it, you have to eat it. Its just what it is.
I had a person buy a ps2, week after they received it claimed it arrived in shipping fine. No damage. But now it had a damaged corner where the eject button was. Impossible to miss until a week later. I.E. They dropped it and wanted to return it. Had messages saying it wasnt shipping related, and had pictures of the ps2 from all angles in the listing with no damage. After being on the phone, ebay said I had to accept the return and refund them.
If youve had different results you are a very lucky SOB and its not typical
Id need to hear in detail each case, because if there is a reason you are winning a case, it would be obvious after hearing. There are cases you can win. But not in this atwood case. You wont ever win.
Last few cases that I can recall that were turned over in my favor as a seller.
Sold a SNES game. Showed pictures of cart running on a SNES unit in the auction. Overseas buyer was forced to pay something like 60-80 in shipping from that crazy overseas shipping program ebay has. Blamed me for this and then claimed the game was DOA.
Sold an Ipod. Buyer must have updated the unit with newer version of Itunes and then said it was different than what was pictured.
Sold an original Xbox backwards compatible game. Plays on an Xbox 360 with a hard drive that has files installed. Pictured running on a 360.
Sold dead ps3 for as defective parts. Seller claimed not as described and asked for partial money back.
The one I lost was for a 360 network adapter that was tested and working. Buyer says it did not. No details at all. I sent him 2 links. One on how to connect the unit and another on how to connect to the internet. Then nothing until ebay steps in. Get the unit back and it works fine. Ebay doesn't care.
The title and listing is confusing. The description is totally clear with the bright red text and everything. But aside from intent (because I don't think you're trying to con your buyers) how is this auction really different from that lady who lists Nintendo Power #1 and sends out a few loose pages? Both examples have misleading photos and titles, but very clear descriptions.
The buyer was wrong to damage the game, but I can see how they might have felt cheated and consequently felt their actions were (dishonestly) warranted, especially if they thought there was no other way to get their money back. $100 is not a small amount to just write off on a bad purchase (at least not for everyone). The situation sucks, but I can see how the buyer and seller were both frustrated and let their anger control the situation. Personally if I were selling that game I'd title it something like NEW SEALED GAME SINGLE COPY (CASE NOT INCLUDED) [I realize the auction states 1 GAME but it's easy to overlook]. I'd also make sure to include front and back photos of the game by itself in addition to the shot of the game in front of the case. More photos just equals more protection for you, and helps sell the auction to smarter, more cautious buyers (the kind that don't immediately panic and demand their money back).
These may be valid points on how to reduce problems in the future but the case wasn't opened on this. The case was opened on the game being smashed. How does one prevent that ?
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Ebays "not as described" policy and the way they enforce it, makes them by default, complicit in fraud.. My case is a prime example.
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Ebays "not as described" policy and the way they enforce it, makes them by default, complicit in fraud.. My case is a prime example.
At some point you do have to throw in the towel.
Are you planning on a class action lawsuit against eBay?
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Ebays "not as described" policy and the way they enforce it, makes them by default, complicit in fraud.. My case is a prime example.
At some point you do have to throw in the towel.
Are you planning on a class action lawsuit against eBay?
I still have legal options against the buyer. Don't put ideas in my head, it's already crowded enough. Maybe a thread should be started to see how many sellers on NA have been screwed by ebay, thanks to their "not as described" practices?
Comments
Of course eBay sided with the buyer, like of course... it's awful, really. EBay's user contract should just include a section stating "as the seller, you accept any and all returns, regardless of reason or rationale, and accept all liability if fraud is attempted against you, regardless of any contradicting evidence".
People say you wasted your time, but the only reason your time is "wasted" is because eBay is fucked when it comes to protecting sellers. If a seller could actually escalate, AND WIN, it wouldn't be seen as a waste of time to fight a buyer's BS returns. It would likely still be harder than just returning, cancelling , etc., but at least sellers would have some ground to stand on.
the worst part is they side with a 1 feedback buyer over a 10,000 feedback top rated seller. I know everyone starts somewhere, but a persons record and status on the site should carry some weight when its he said she said stuff. Its common sense really. I dont get ebay. As a seller w/ tons of feedback I should be more important to them than a newb scamming buyer. But it just doesnt work that way.
How have I been salty? I'm not reporting people to the FBI... Edit: Actually, I recall reaching out to people saying they dislike me and trying to make things good.
It was a joke. You've had a more aggressive tone lately in some threads but I never thought bad of you for it.
Not saying you did. I'm genuinely curious why you got that vibe. I like you. Wasn't trying to start shit. If it's about Bert, we are friendly competitors. Talk shit in threads but friendly in PMs. Same for the high score thread. Talking shit to talk shit but there is no ill will.
oh, hey Loxx. Fuck you.
(That was a joke)
https://www.ic3.gov/
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
I agree with this, but that can't be applied to the situation given here, since they had wanted to cancel the transaction and the seller refused.
On the FBI thing, it's not as heavy handed a response as it sounds. I was scammed on eBay a while ago where the seller shipped an empty box to my local town hall so they would have delivery confirmation of a package in my zip code. Originally eBay ruled in the seller's favor, but I appealed and won. One of the conditions of the appeal was that I had to file an IC3 Internet Crime Complaint with the FBI. It's a simple one page online complaint form and probably doesn't ever get followed up on, but it's something I had to do.
https://www.ic3.gov/...
Yup! I think people are hearing FBI and have the wrong idea of how it works and what it involves. Tim was pissed and was trying to do everything he could to have this guy have some kind of responsibility after he burned him. Rightfully so, i would be annoyed too. For the person to smash the game like that.......that takes a special kind of asshole. I think i would probably be even more mad at ebay that they allow this behavior to happen.
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
This.
And I know I don't have a lot of numbers or flashy symbols next to my name and I haven't been a member on here for long at all, so I expect to be crucified for what I'm about to say. But this site is for opinions and I'm going to share mine.
Yes, op is in the right, this was definitely a case of fraud and the buyer is shitty, no doubt about it. But that whole bit where you're trying to throw your weight around is such a turn off. It's awesome you have such a great collection, anyone that's spent a good chunk of time in this hobby knows your name and knows you have a significantly valuable and rare game collection. But reading your linked interactions with this buyer make it seem like it might have gotten to your head a little bit. I actually cringed when you started talking about how pat has done a podcast on you, and the threat of contacting pat to possibly do a podcast on this situation is insane. I can't believe I'm the first in this post to mention that, and I'm sure others were thinking it but were apprehensive to say anything.
I've read about you hooking people up with amazing prices with things they need, and some people actually talk about you like you're Christ-like in this hobby. I don't see it here. Tbh, nothing but controversy comes up recently when your name is involved. This seems like an immense waist of time and efforts for little to no gain. Yes principle, I know, but where do you draw the line? There's a point where this went from righteous to almost schoolyard. This just comes off as immature, calling the fbi and pat the nes punk to come fight for super pinball? I bet the buyer is shaking in their shoes...it's a game. Goddamn, this shit is supposed to be fun. Honestly, sealed cases of practically everything, but selling super pinball when cash is needed? Sell what you want, you dont need me to tell you that that's not gonna draw the top tier type of respectable buyers...
On the FBI thing, it's not as heavy handed a response as it sounds. I was scammed on eBay a while ago where the seller shipped an empty box to my local town hall so they would have delivery confirmation of a package in my zip code. Originally eBay ruled in the seller's favor, but I appealed and won. One of the conditions of the appeal was that I had to file an IC3 Internet Crime Complaint with the FBI. It's a simple one page online complaint form and probably doesn't ever get followed up on, but it's something I had to do.
https://www.ic3.gov/
Yup! I think people are hearing FBI and have the wrong idea of how it works and what it involves. Tim was pissed and was trying to do everything he could to have this guy have some kind of responsibility after he burned him. Rightfully so, i would be annoyed too. For the person to smash the game like that.......that takes a special kind of asshole. I think i would probably be even more mad at ebay that they allow this behavior to happen.
I added ebay in this FBI complaint. If these POS did it this time, how many others have they fucked over similarily? No one really knows because people don't speak out or take appropriate actions. "Jill" probably thought I wouldn't do much, but I may not be done yet. I think I might file a complaint with their county sheriff/prosecutor. She is a crook plain and simple. Taking a stand.....
I've personally found that it's a lot better to be nice to the people who purchase things from you and work with them to resolve their concerns. Most of the time they keep the items and leave positive feedback.
This. And I know I don't have a lot of numbers or flashy symbols next to my name and I haven't been a member on here for long at all, so I expect to be crucified for what I'm about to say. But this site is for opinions and I'm going to share mine. Yes, op is in the right, this was definitely a case of fraud and the buyer is shitty, no doubt about it. But that whole bit where you're trying to throw your weight around is such a turn off. It's awesome you have such a great collection, anyone that's spent a good chunk of time in this hobby knows your name and knows you have a significantly valuable and rare game collection. But reading your linked interactions with this buyer make it seem like it might have gotten to your head a little bit. I actually cringed when you started talking about how pat has done a podcast on you, and the threat of contacting pat to possibly do a podcast on this situation is insane. I can't believe I'm the first in this post to mention that, and I'm sure others were thinking it but were apprehensive to say anything. I've read about you hooking people up with amazing prices with things they need, and some people actually talk about you like you're Christ-like in this hobby. I don't see it here. Tbh, nothing but controversy comes up recently when your name is involved. This seems like an immense waist of time and efforts for little to no gain. Yes principle, I know, but where do you draw the line? There's a point where this went from righteous to almost schoolyard. This just comes off as immature, calling the fbi and pat the nes punk to come fight for super pinball? I bet the buyer is shaking in their shoes...it's a game. Goddamn, this shit is supposed to be fun. Honestly, sealed cases of practically everything, but selling super pinball when cash is needed? Sell what you want, you dont need me to tell you that that's not gonna draw the top tier type of respectable buyers...
Boy, you sure are long winded. This isn't about a game or value. A crook is a crook is a crook...... If someone owns a store and someone stole something, I doubt the store owner would care if it was a $ .50 pack of gum or a $100 coat. They would call the police and the thief would be changed with shoplifting.
well, you did add me to your list for reasons I dont even know. I did nothing to you.
quest4nes has surely gotta be on most people's lists by now, lol! Heck, I don't even have a list but you'd sure as shit be on it if I did!
I love Quest! I always stop and read the whole post when I see the steakface avatar. Don't change, Quest -- and sell me your Gargoyles Quest 2!
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back or they are complaining about something you clearly described or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back , and they are complaining about something you clearly are missing or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
That isn't true. Rather I should say that it hasn't been true for me. I win 90% of the time. Did lose the last case (which was total bs) but I can't remember losing one before that one.
The key for me has been to do something before ebay makes a decision. The one time I lost I waited till ebay made a decision because I thought it was a slam dunk. Got the same replies as the OP did. I'll never do that again. Soon as there is a sign of a problem call ebay and get them to document it.
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back , and they are complaining about something you clearly are missing or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
That isn't true. Rather I should say that it hasn't been true for me. I win 90% of the time. Did lose the last case (which was total bs) but I can't remember losing one before that one.
The key for me has been to do something before ebay makes a decision. The one time I lost I waited till ebay made a decision because I thought it was a slam dunk. Got the same replies as the OP did. I'll never do that again. Soon as there is a sign of a problem call ebay and get them to document it.
Well I dont know what to tell you. I call all the time before it ends. They refuse to do anything and telling me to accept the return even when its clear as day should be ruled for me. Ive spent hours and hours on the phone with ebay over the years. Ive maybe had them help me or side with me 5-10 times over atleast a couple hundred issues where buyers were screwing me over. If they return it, you have to eat it. Its just what it is.
I had a person buy a ps2, week after they received it claimed it arrived in shipping fine. No damage. But now it had a damaged corner where the eject button was. Impossible to miss until a week later. I.E. They dropped it and wanted to return it. Had messages saying it wasnt shipping related, and had pictures of the ps2 from all angles in the listing with no damage. After being on the phone, ebay said I had to accept the return and refund them.
If youve had different results you are a very lucky SOB and its not typical
Id need to hear in detail each case, because if there is a reason you are winning a case, it would be obvious after hearing. There are cases you can win. But not in this atwood case. You wont ever win.
The buyer was wrong to damage the game, but I can see how they might have felt cheated and consequently felt their actions were (dishonestly) warranted, especially if they thought there was no other way to get their money back. $100 is not a small amount to just write off on a bad purchase (at least not for everyone). The situation sucks, but I can see how the buyer and seller were both frustrated and let their anger control the situation. Personally if I were selling that game I'd title it something like NEW SEALED GAME SINGLE COPY (CASE NOT INCLUDED) [I realize the auction states 1 GAME but it's easy to overlook]. I'd also make sure to include front and back photos of the game by itself in addition to the shot of the game in front of the case. More photos just equals more protection for you, and helps sell the auction to smarter, more cautious buyers (the kind that don't immediately panic and demand their money back).
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
When you know the rules it does nothing though. Not one thing happens to them. Ebay doesnt remember it, and you now have a damaged product and wasted shipping money. He hadnt even sent the item and they wanted to cancel. Its not worth the hassle. Even if you win. Could have just relisted it and had a mint game still only out the .30 cents paypal transaction.
You have to pick your battles, and if you are experienced on ebay, this was an obvious one not too.
I usually win these cases but I did lose the last one.
That being said unless things have changed buyers are also limited to the number of times they can do this.
the only way you win is if they dont ship it back , and they are complaining about something you clearly are missing or have pictured. Thats the only time ive won a case. My recent win was a lego ship. I stated it would be shipped broken down multiple times. Buyer opened a return not as described case stating it wasnt put together. Once they ship it back, ebay will always decide with them and you cant open a "report" on them, that goes to that special garbage file folder that is never looked at or cared about. If they open a case for not as described, it has to be clearly pictured/ mentioned. Atwoods problem is he apparently pictured the case and had no detail pictures of the game they would be getting
Putting the whole case in a picture is never the correct way to list.
That isn't true. Rather I should say that it hasn't been true for me. I win 90% of the time. Did lose the last case (which was total bs) but I can't remember losing one before that one.
The key for me has been to do something before ebay makes a decision. The one time I lost I waited till ebay made a decision because I thought it was a slam dunk. Got the same replies as the OP did. I'll never do that again. Soon as there is a sign of a problem call ebay and get them to document it.
Well I dont know what to tell you. I call all the time before it ends. They refuse to do anything and telling me to accept the return even when its clear as day should be ruled for me. Ive spent hours and hours on the phone with ebay over the years. Ive maybe had them help me or side with me 5-10 times over atleast a couple hundred issues where buyers were screwing me over. If they return it, you have to eat it. Its just what it is.
I had a person buy a ps2, week after they received it claimed it arrived in shipping fine. No damage. But now it had a damaged corner where the eject button was. Impossible to miss until a week later. I.E. They dropped it and wanted to return it. Had messages saying it wasnt shipping related, and had pictures of the ps2 from all angles in the listing with no damage. After being on the phone, ebay said I had to accept the return and refund them.
If youve had different results you are a very lucky SOB and its not typical
Id need to hear in detail each case, because if there is a reason you are winning a case, it would be obvious after hearing. There are cases you can win. But not in this atwood case. You wont ever win.
Last few cases that I can recall that were turned over in my favor as a seller.
Sold a SNES game. Showed pictures of cart running on a SNES unit in the auction. Overseas buyer was forced to pay something like 60-80 in shipping from that crazy overseas shipping program ebay has. Blamed me for this and then claimed the game was DOA.
Sold an Ipod. Buyer must have updated the unit with newer version of Itunes and then said it was different than what was pictured.
Sold an original Xbox backwards compatible game. Plays on an Xbox 360 with a hard drive that has files installed. Pictured running on a 360.
Sold dead ps3 for as defective parts. Seller claimed not as described and asked for partial money back.
The one I lost was for a 360 network adapter that was tested and working. Buyer says it did not. No details at all. I sent him 2 links. One on how to connect the unit and another on how to connect to the internet. Then nothing until ebay steps in. Get the unit back and it works fine. Ebay doesn't care.
The title and listing is confusing. The description is totally clear with the bright red text and everything. But aside from intent (because I don't think you're trying to con your buyers) how is this auction really different from that lady who lists Nintendo Power #1 and sends out a few loose pages? Both examples have misleading photos and titles, but very clear descriptions.
The buyer was wrong to damage the game, but I can see how they might have felt cheated and consequently felt their actions were (dishonestly) warranted, especially if they thought there was no other way to get their money back. $100 is not a small amount to just write off on a bad purchase (at least not for everyone). The situation sucks, but I can see how the buyer and seller were both frustrated and let their anger control the situation. Personally if I were selling that game I'd title it something like NEW SEALED GAME SINGLE COPY (CASE NOT INCLUDED) [I realize the auction states 1 GAME but it's easy to overlook]. I'd also make sure to include front and back photos of the game by itself in addition to the shot of the game in front of the case. More photos just equals more protection for you, and helps sell the auction to smarter, more cautious buyers (the kind that don't immediately panic and demand their money back).
These may be valid points on how to reduce problems in the future but the case wasn't opened on this. The case was opened on the game being smashed. How does one prevent that ?
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I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Ebays "not as described" policy and the way they enforce it, makes them by default, complicit in fraud.. My case is a prime example.
Did Pat Contri really do a podcast on you? Do you have a link to it?
I doubt any member here will honor your request.. Don't be lazy, do your own google search!
Did Pat Contri really do a podcast on you? Do you have a link to it?
I doubt any member here will honor your request.. Don't be lazy, do your own google search!
Not everyone on NA hates Pat, I listen to his 2 podcasts regularly. But I feel others here judging me for writing that
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Ebays "not as described" policy and the way they enforce it, makes them by default, complicit in fraud.. My case is a prime example.
At some point you do have to throw in the towel.
Are you planning on a class action lawsuit against eBay?
I'm like you. I fight til the end,
eBay is in the wrong. Buyer should be banned from eBay.
If all sellers turn over and let these guys get away with this without a fight it makes it 10X worse for everyone.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Ebays "not as described" policy and the way they enforce it, makes them by default, complicit in fraud.. My case is a prime example.
At some point you do have to throw in the towel.
Are you planning on a class action lawsuit against eBay?
I still have legal options against the buyer. Don't put ideas in my head, it's already crowded enough. Maybe a thread should be started to see how many sellers on NA have been screwed by ebay, thanks to their "not as described" practices?
Good luck getting this mess sorted out. I've encountered the biggest idiots selling on eBay.
Hopefully at some point you can provide a username so they can be added to my list of blocked people.
It was provided in my original thread. Look and you shall see.