Time matters because we have a drive to define things. It's complex. Lets attempt to make a comparison...
If a person dies at age 30, and that person is an organ donor, their lifespan was 30 years. Yet, their heart (console), liver (power), eyes (AV), and so on may continue on long after the brain stops (game development). Sometimes, there are long gaps in game development, just as a person might be on life support for quite awhile. Unlicensed games are kind of like the crook that stole the 30 year old's identity from ages 26 - 29.
Homebrews are akin to remembering Grandma's recipe 20 years after her passing, when you might have to improvise a little. You could have made an unlicensed version of Grandma's recipe 30 years ago, but you didn't need to because Grandma was still making it.
I don't think 1 cart in 20 years or whatever really count as an alive and active console.
Or did you mean to post this in the Star Fox 2 thread?
Why would it not count? The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars film and it was released in 1999. Is someone going to argue that the Star Wars series lifespan was 1977-1983? (No, I don't need arguments about how the prequels sucked, lol.)
The argument about homebrews is moot. I'm talking about if Nintendo released a ready to play Super Nintendo cart in 2017. I have yet to hear an good argument regarding this. A console is not a person. Once a person is dead, they are dead. You can have the opinion of a console's lifespan being over but if another game is released for it, licensed, fully endorsed, that would absolutely, in my eyes, extend the official lifespan of the system.
As far as I see it seems to be similar to the majority of the votes. As long as someone is producing unlicensed (by the hardware maker) licensed or unlicensed (by game rights holder) games for whatever console, it's still alive and it's a new release. It could be a game that never got published but mostly finished (and completed now) or a complete one that just never made it. Perhaps even a resurrection of a game from a platform from a sub-format (satellite game) to legit full on package release like this: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/05/columbus_circle_is_releasing_a_new_super_famicom_game_this_year (Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman Zero.)
I don't think 1 cart in 20 years or whatever really count as an alive and active console.
Or did you mean to post this in the Star Fox 2 thread?
Why would it not count? The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars film and it was released in 1999. Is someone going to argue that the Star Wars series lifespan was 1977-1983? (No, I don't need arguments about how the prequels sucked, lol.)
The argument about homebrews is moot. I'm talking about if Nintendo released a ready to play Super Nintendo cart in 2017. I have yet to hear an good argument regarding this. A console is not a person. Once a person is dead, they are dead. You can have the opinion of a console's lifespan being over but if another game is released for it, licensed, fully endorsed, that would absolutely, in my eyes, extend the official lifespan of the system.
I'd love to hear a compelling argument otherwise.
No one is arguing that though.
If nintendo came out tomorrow and said "we are releasing a new game "x" for SNES on a cart with an original style box and a UPC and sold at gamestop and amazon" then most people *would* most likely count it (or at least the argument would be solid). Its such a silly hypothetical situation it doesn't really matter.
This whole thread is about starfox 2, on the SNES mini.
NO ITS NOT PART OF THE SNES SET
unless someone wants to count it personally , but they should expect the majority to disagree.
I don't think 1 cart in 20 years or whatever really count as an alive and active console.
Or did you mean to post this in the Star Fox 2 thread?
Why would it not count? The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars film and it was released in 1999. Is someone going to argue that the Star Wars series lifespan was 1977-1983? (No, I don't need arguments about how the prequels sucked, lol.)
The argument about homebrews is moot. I'm talking about if Nintendo released a ready to play Super Nintendo cart in 2017. I have yet to hear an good argument regarding this. A console is not a person. Once a person is dead, they are dead. You can have the opinion of a console's lifespan being over but if another game is released for it, licensed, fully endorsed, that would absolutely, in my eyes, extend the official lifespan of the system.
I'd love to hear a compelling argument otherwise.
No one is arguing that though.
If nintendo came out tomorrow and said "we are releasing a new game "x" for SNES on a cart with an original style box and a UPC and sold at gamestop and amazon" then most people *would* most likely count it (or at least the argument would be solid). Its such a silly hypothetical situation it doesn't really matter.
This whole thread is about starfox 2, on the SNES mini.
NO ITS NOT PART OF THE SNES SET
unless someone wants to count it personally , but they should expect the majority to disagree.
I would argue that newly released SNES cartridges would not fall into the same category as those released durin the lifespan of the system.
This just follows the same logic that separates unlicensed games from aftermarket games.
With the Star Wars argument sure they are all Star Wars just as these are all Nintendo games but each set of toys related to those films has a cut off. Toys made today aren't considered in the same line of toys created in 1980.
Typically, the system is discontinued before the last game is ever released.
Typically, the last game is released before the parent company stops supporting the system entirely (not counting homebrews)
So normally, the last major event for a console is when its parent company stops supporting it, which is when I consider the life of that system to be over.
Ok but WHAT IF Nintendo did release Star Fox 2 on a retail cart? What if it sold like absolute bonkers, and Nintendo decided to release a handful of other unreleased SNES games, on cartridges? It would be unprecedented, so there wouldn't be any routine way to deal with it, but nobody would be able to argue that they aren't licensed SNES games, part of a full set. We'd call them something like Original Run vs. New Run carts or something. No, they wouldn't be in the same category. But they WOULD be in the broad category of Official SNES Releases. People would say "the SNES is alive again!" and others would say "it never died!"
It would drive home the point that it's impossible to say when the last game is released. If anything else gets released, (Just Dance etc) then that is the new "last," and it's a terrible measure of the lifetime of a console. It's like me saying "hey guys I totally killed this thread because my comment is the LAST ONE!"
Ok but WHAT IF Nintendo did release Star Fox 2 on a retail cart? What if it sold like absolute bonkers, and Nintendo decided to release a handful of other unreleased SNES games, on cartridges?
Careful, this was the hypothetical question I posed earlier and got told it was too far fetched to debate.
Ok now THIS is the last comment. Turns out the thread wasn't dead between my last "last" comment and this one. Turns out there was no way for anyone to know. Turns out game releases are not a good measure for the life of the console.
If the console's life is measured by game releases, then does the console die immediately upon the release of the final game? Did the NES die the minute Wario's Woods hit the shelves and nobody owned it yet? That doesn't make any sense. And any measure of how long it lasts after the release of the final game is just subjective opinion. Official Nintendo support is the only good measure.
Edited: added smileys to make it more light-hearted
I've always considered the end of a console's life to be when it's no longer officially supported by the company, generally speaking.
But it depends on what a person means by "death of a console." By my definition, the Dreamcast is dead, yet it has a lively homebrew/modding/enthusiast scene still putting out new games and products.
Ok but WHAT IF Nintendo did release Star Fox 2 on a retail cart? What if it sold like absolute bonkers, and Nintendo decided to release a handful of other unreleased SNES games, on cartridges? It would be unprecedented, so there wouldn't be any routine way to deal with it, but nobody would be able to argue that they aren't licensed SNES games, part of a full set. We'd call them something like Original Run vs. New Run carts or something. No, they wouldn't be in the same category. But they WOULD be in the broad category of Official SNES Releases. People would say "the SNES is alive again!" and others would say "it never died!"
It would drive home the point that it's impossible to say when the last game is released. If anything else gets released, (Just Dance etc) then that is the new "last," and it's a terrible measure of the lifetime of a console. It's like me saying "hey guys I totally killed this thread because my comment is the LAST ONE!"
After much debate they would eventually settle into a new sub category of some type. G2 or 2017 or something like that which reflects the fact that they are modern releases. You see this in other hobbies (cards comics action figures etc) when companies pull the same tricks with neoclassic releases. The old category isn't extended. A new one is created.
Ok now THIS is the last comment. Turns out the thread wasn't dead between my last "last" comment and this one. Turns out there was no way for anyone to know. Turns out game releases are not a good measure for the life of the console.
If the console's life is measured by game releases, then does the console die immediately upon the release of the final game? Did the NES die the minute Wario's Woods hit the shelves and nobody owned it yet? That doesn't make any sense. And any measure of how long it lasts after the release of the final game is just subjective opinion. Official Nintendo support is the only good measure.
Edited: added smileys to make it more light-hearted
With most systems people have given it a year or two after the last release which if you did so with Warios Woods allows Sunday Funday to meet the deadline and be included with the unlicensed titles. With no release following Sunday Funday it is generally accepted to be dead and all game thereafter aftermarket.
After much debate they would eventually settle into a new sub category of some type. G2 or 2017 or something like that which reflects the fact that they are modern releases. You see this in other hobbies (cards comics action figures etc) when companies pull the same tricks with neoclassic releases. The old category isn't extended. A new one is created.
I think there's a bit of a difference. Cards, comics and action figures are standalone. A new SNES release would still need an old console to play. Would that make any difference?
After much debate they would eventually settle into a new sub category of some type. G2 or 2017 or something like that which reflects the fact that they are modern releases. You see this in other hobbies (cards comics action figures etc) when companies pull the same tricks with neoclassic releases. The old category isn't extended. A new one is created.
I think there's a bit of a difference. Cards, comics and action figures are standalone. A new SNES release would still need an old console to play. Would that make any difference?
Games are most often sorted in the way they are collected not in the way in which they are used or there would be no unlicensed section.
Keep in mind this is partly prediction and partly what I would be most comfortable with. In the end it is honestly what I think the most people would be most comfortable with. Most collectors would recognize some distinction between games made 20 apart. Most likely video gamers would follow suit with how it is handled in other hobbies even with some differences between hobbies for collectors it works.
Some videogame collectors (like always) would argue for a different way but they would likely be in the minority. Since you can't please everyone these games would likely fall into a new sub category with the disclaimer to include them if you want to etc.
Having interchangeable game cartridges/cards/disks/CDs/downloads/etc is what gives a console a "lifespan" to begin with (for example, Home Pong doesn't have a "lifespan," just a release date). The release of games is the determining factor, IMHO.
Anything released after a certain period of time (officially or not) would be outside of that lifespan, aftermarket, whatever you want to call it. I guess the "end date" for any particular console would be somewhat subjective, but I can't really think of one where it is not fairly obvious or intuitive.
I wonder how a company like Nintendo decides when to stop officially supporting a system. I remember Microsoft tried to kill Windows XP on purpose, but got so much backlash that they extended the support period. So for Nintendo, I wonder if it's more based on community support (number of inquiries etc) or just their decision to stop supporting it, to nudge people to the more modern systems.
Also I don't fully know what it means for a system to be "supported." Is it just for consumer repairs? Is the Wii still supported? Can a third party obtain an official license to release a game for an unsupported system? (Does anyone's uncle who works for Nintendo know the answer?)
I wonder how a company like Nintendo decides when to stop officially supporting a system. I remember Microsoft tried to kill Windows XP on purpose, but got so much backlash that they extended the support period. So for Nintendo, I wonder if it's more based on community support (number of inquiries etc) or just their decision to stop supporting it, to nudge people to the more modern systems.
Also I don't fully know what it means for a system to be "supported." Is it just for consumer repairs? Is the Wii still supported? Can a third party obtain an official license to release a game for an unsupported system? (Does anyone's uncle who works for Nintendo know the answer?)
IMO, a system's support includes various factors. I'd say anything the company allocates resources to in order to keep the console on the market. Consoles typically lose support over time (as opposed to all at once).
Comments
If a person dies at age 30, and that person is an organ donor, their lifespan was 30 years. Yet, their heart (console), liver (power), eyes (AV), and so on may continue on long after the brain stops (game development). Sometimes, there are long gaps in game development, just as a person might be on life support for quite awhile. Unlicensed games are kind of like the crook that stole the 30 year old's identity from ages 26 - 29.
Homebrews are akin to remembering Grandma's recipe 20 years after her passing, when you might have to improvise a little. You could have made an unlicensed version of Grandma's recipe 30 years ago, but you didn't need to because Grandma was still making it.
Originally posted by: Loxx O)))
I don't think 1 cart in 20 years or whatever really count as an alive and active console.
Or did you mean to post this in the Star Fox 2 thread?
Why would it not count? The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars film and it was released in 1999. Is someone going to argue that the Star Wars series lifespan was 1977-1983? (No, I don't need arguments about how the prequels sucked, lol.)
The argument about homebrews is moot. I'm talking about if Nintendo released a ready to play Super Nintendo cart in 2017. I have yet to hear an good argument regarding this. A console is not a person. Once a person is dead, they are dead. You can have the opinion of a console's lifespan being over but if another game is released for it, licensed, fully endorsed, that would absolutely, in my eyes, extend the official lifespan of the system.
I'd love to hear a compelling argument otherwise.
I don't think 1 cart in 20 years or whatever really count as an alive and active console.
Or did you mean to post this in the Star Fox 2 thread?
Why would it not count? The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars film and it was released in 1999. Is someone going to argue that the Star Wars series lifespan was 1977-1983? (No, I don't need arguments about how the prequels sucked, lol.)
The argument about homebrews is moot. I'm talking about if Nintendo released a ready to play Super Nintendo cart in 2017. I have yet to hear an good argument regarding this. A console is not a person. Once a person is dead, they are dead. You can have the opinion of a console's lifespan being over but if another game is released for it, licensed, fully endorsed, that would absolutely, in my eyes, extend the official lifespan of the system.
I'd love to hear a compelling argument otherwise.
No one is arguing that though.
If nintendo came out tomorrow and said "we are releasing a new game "x" for SNES on a cart with an original style box and a UPC and sold at gamestop and amazon" then most people *would* most likely count it (or at least the argument would be solid). Its such a silly hypothetical situation it doesn't really matter.
This whole thread is about starfox 2, on the SNES mini.
NO ITS NOT PART OF THE SNES SET
unless someone wants to count it personally , but they should expect the majority to disagree.
That line always felt like PR spin "We aren't planning to release any more games but we will continue to support the platform."
I don't think 1 cart in 20 years or whatever really count as an alive and active console.
Or did you mean to post this in the Star Fox 2 thread?
Why would it not count? The Phantom Menace is a Star Wars film and it was released in 1999. Is someone going to argue that the Star Wars series lifespan was 1977-1983? (No, I don't need arguments about how the prequels sucked, lol.)
The argument about homebrews is moot. I'm talking about if Nintendo released a ready to play Super Nintendo cart in 2017. I have yet to hear an good argument regarding this. A console is not a person. Once a person is dead, they are dead. You can have the opinion of a console's lifespan being over but if another game is released for it, licensed, fully endorsed, that would absolutely, in my eyes, extend the official lifespan of the system.
I'd love to hear a compelling argument otherwise.
No one is arguing that though.
If nintendo came out tomorrow and said "we are releasing a new game "x" for SNES on a cart with an original style box and a UPC and sold at gamestop and amazon" then most people *would* most likely count it (or at least the argument would be solid). Its such a silly hypothetical situation it doesn't really matter.
This whole thread is about starfox 2, on the SNES mini.
NO ITS NOT PART OF THE SNES SET
unless someone wants to count it personally , but they should expect the majority to disagree.
I would argue that newly released SNES cartridges would not fall into the same category as those released durin the lifespan of the system.
This just follows the same logic that separates unlicensed games from aftermarket games.
With the Star Wars argument sure they are all Star Wars just as these are all Nintendo games but each set of toys related to those films has a cut off. Toys made today aren't considered in the same line of toys created in 1980.
just admit you don't wanna have to buy a snes mini already
Ha. I bought 2 on launch day.
What is dead may never die!
That's the motto of the Playstation Vita.
Typically, the last game is released before the parent company stops supporting the system entirely (not counting homebrews)
So normally, the last major event for a console is when its parent company stops supporting it, which is when I consider the life of that system to be over.
It would drive home the point that it's impossible to say when the last game is released. If anything else gets released, (Just Dance etc) then that is the new "last," and it's a terrible measure of the lifetime of a console. It's like me saying "hey guys I totally killed this thread because my comment is the LAST ONE!"
Originally posted by: KrakenSoup
To me it's always been when the last game has been released for the system.
As it should be. And if a game gets released much later than the previous last game, then the lifespan is now extended.
Originally posted by: Splain
Ok but WHAT IF Nintendo did release Star Fox 2 on a retail cart? What if it sold like absolute bonkers, and Nintendo decided to release a handful of other unreleased SNES games, on cartridges?
Careful, this was the hypothetical question I posed earlier and got told it was too far fetched to debate.
Careful, this was the hypothetical question I posed earlier and got told it was too far fetched to debate.
Lol, obviously we're only allowed to think about things that are officially announced.
If the console's life is measured by game releases, then does the console die immediately upon the release of the final game? Did the NES die the minute Wario's Woods hit the shelves and nobody owned it yet? That doesn't make any sense. And any measure of how long it lasts after the release of the final game is just subjective opinion. Official Nintendo support is the only good measure.
Edited: added smileys to make it more light-hearted
But it depends on what a person means by "death of a console." By my definition, the Dreamcast is dead, yet it has a lively homebrew/modding/enthusiast scene still putting out new games and products.
Ok but WHAT IF Nintendo did release Star Fox 2 on a retail cart? What if it sold like absolute bonkers, and Nintendo decided to release a handful of other unreleased SNES games, on cartridges? It would be unprecedented, so there wouldn't be any routine way to deal with it, but nobody would be able to argue that they aren't licensed SNES games, part of a full set. We'd call them something like Original Run vs. New Run carts or something. No, they wouldn't be in the same category. But they WOULD be in the broad category of Official SNES Releases. People would say "the SNES is alive again!" and others would say "it never died!"
It would drive home the point that it's impossible to say when the last game is released. If anything else gets released, (Just Dance etc) then that is the new "last," and it's a terrible measure of the lifetime of a console. It's like me saying "hey guys I totally killed this thread because my comment is the LAST ONE!"
After much debate they would eventually settle into a new sub category of some type. G2 or 2017 or something like that which reflects the fact that they are modern releases. You see this in other hobbies (cards comics action figures etc) when companies pull the same tricks with neoclassic releases. The old category isn't extended. A new one is created.
Ok now THIS is the last comment. Turns out the thread wasn't dead between my last "last" comment and this one. Turns out there was no way for anyone to know. Turns out game releases are not a good measure for the life of the console.
If the console's life is measured by game releases, then does the console die immediately upon the release of the final game? Did the NES die the minute Wario's Woods hit the shelves and nobody owned it yet? That doesn't make any sense. And any measure of how long it lasts after the release of the final game is just subjective opinion. Official Nintendo support is the only good measure.
Edited: added smileys to make it more light-hearted
With most systems people have given it a year or two after the last release which if you did so with Warios Woods allows Sunday Funday to meet the deadline and be included with the unlicensed titles. With no release following Sunday Funday it is generally accepted to be dead and all game thereafter aftermarket.
After much debate they would eventually settle into a new sub category of some type. G2 or 2017 or something like that which reflects the fact that they are modern releases. You see this in other hobbies (cards comics action figures etc) when companies pull the same tricks with neoclassic releases. The old category isn't extended. A new one is created.
I think there's a bit of a difference. Cards, comics and action figures are standalone. A new SNES release would still need an old console to play. Would that make any difference?
After much debate they would eventually settle into a new sub category of some type. G2 or 2017 or something like that which reflects the fact that they are modern releases. You see this in other hobbies (cards comics action figures etc) when companies pull the same tricks with neoclassic releases. The old category isn't extended. A new one is created.
I think there's a bit of a difference. Cards, comics and action figures are standalone. A new SNES release would still need an old console to play. Would that make any difference?
Games are most often sorted in the way they are collected not in the way in which they are used or there would be no unlicensed section.
Keep in mind this is partly prediction and partly what I would be most comfortable with. In the end it is honestly what I think the most people would be most comfortable with. Most collectors would recognize some distinction between games made 20 apart. Most likely video gamers would follow suit with how it is handled in other hobbies even with some differences between hobbies for collectors it works.
Some videogame collectors (like always) would argue for a different way but they would likely be in the minority. Since you can't please everyone these games would likely fall into a new sub category with the disclaimer to include them if you want to etc.
Anything released after a certain period of time (officially or not) would be outside of that lifespan, aftermarket, whatever you want to call it. I guess the "end date" for any particular console would be somewhat subjective, but I can't really think of one where it is not fairly obvious or intuitive.
Also I don't fully know what it means for a system to be "supported." Is it just for consumer repairs? Is the Wii still supported? Can a third party obtain an official license to release a game for an unsupported system? (Does anyone's uncle who works for Nintendo know the answer?)
I wonder how a company like Nintendo decides when to stop officially supporting a system. I remember Microsoft tried to kill Windows XP on purpose, but got so much backlash that they extended the support period. So for Nintendo, I wonder if it's more based on community support (number of inquiries etc) or just their decision to stop supporting it, to nudge people to the more modern systems.
Also I don't fully know what it means for a system to be "supported." Is it just for consumer repairs? Is the Wii still supported? Can a third party obtain an official license to release a game for an unsupported system? (Does anyone's uncle who works for Nintendo know the answer?)
IMO, a system's support includes various factors. I'd say anything the company allocates resources to in order to keep the console on the market. Consoles typically lose support over time (as opposed to all at once).
It would include things like:
-Product production of all first party hardware
-Product marketing
-Game licensing
-Software support (updates, basically)
-Online support (think of the original xBox live)
editing, hang on
It would include things like:
-Product production of all first party hardware
-Product marketing
-Game licensing
-Software support (updates, basically)
-Online support (think of the original xBox live)
What about physical repair service?
editing, hang on
It would include things like:
-Product production of all first party hardware
-Product marketing
-Game licensing
-Software support (updates, basically)
-Online support (think of the original xBox live)
What about physical repair service?
That too.