Caution: Contains graphic violence against a SNES console.
Just listen to the sound it makes when it snaps. This took incredibly little effort to break a piece off, and it had that peanut brittle CRACK to it. Two more pieces fell off as I put it back together. Also, one of the main (big, usually sturdy) round parts where the screws goes in broke off a while back, and I gorilla glued it back into place.
I thought you were overexaggerating with the warning. Nope. Haha... you look like The Hulk, there, though...
I have never had the brittleness issue-interesting.
I have for sure. It was surprisingly brittle in fact. Incredibly fragile.
Just cleaned a super yellowed NES (what prompted this thread) and didnt have an issue at all. Even put the screws in with my makita 18v impact driver Like always (don't try that at home kids) with no stripping.
Maybe I just wasn't paying attention to the other yellowed consoles Ive cleaned.
Can someone knowledgeable explain the process that causes the fire retardant to make the plastic yellow and brittle?
This is all coming from a forensic chemistry degree I obtained many years ago, but haven't put to use in nearly as long a time. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
When the SNES was being produced, Nintendo used ABS Plastic to create the plastic shells. ABS is great because it's cheap, sturdy, and easy to injection mold into anything you would want. It's a mixture of three organic molecules that cross-link and form a cohesive structure whose properties depend upon the mixtures of each component.
Regardless of the mixture, however, one property of ABS is that it is quite flammable. Light a piece on fire and it will burn quite readily and with plenty of energy to ignite other materials. To prevent this, a flame retardent chemical that would stop a fire in the ABS plastic was required. If not added, the company producing goods from that plastic would face many lawsuits. Halogenated hydrocarbons make fantastic flame retardants as they will stifle flames of any origin really. One of the cheaper flame retardants that will readily mix with the ABS mixture while molten and not chemically react directly with the mixture is one containing bromine.
Bromine is a vile, reddish-brown liquid that vaporizes readily and is quite similar to chlorine except that it's a liquid at room temperature/pressure. Bromine stinks and also has a strong color. As the ABS mixed with this brominated hydrocarbon flame retardent is exposed to heat/cool cycles, UV light, oxygen in the air, etc., it eventually breaks down and free radicals of bromine can then attack the compounds in the ABS mixture. This causes light to be absorbed differently, and thus alters the color. One can "reverse" the process by exposing to oxygen radicals and heat/light, but eventually the yellow WILL come back.
When the bromine radicals are present, they will attack many parts of the ABS structure that formed as the plastic cooled. This results in a breakdown of the plastic structure itself which causes it to become incredibly brittle and susceptible to cracking/breaking.
Only some parts of the SNES typically yellow severely, and that's due to Nintendo eventually learning how to properly mix all of the components of the plastic and flame retardent mixture properly. Still, a lot of shells were made using the improper formula and if you are a business, you aren't going to throw something away that you've already spent time and money producing. Later runs of the SNES are more common as still gray, while earlier runs typically are fully yellowed. In the middle, you see a lot of top/bottom color differences.
Just a quick check here, let me know if all this sounds correct. Bromide reacts to UV light, and will glow under UV\"Blacklight", and the levels of it were not consistant from one parts batch to another.
I've noticed when shining a strongUV light on nes carts, some of them will glow, others won't. And it's generally not a "this cart glows, this one doesn't" so much as "the bottom of these 4 carts glow, and this one top cart here glows". So I'm assuming this is due to diffrent levels of bromide, or maybe something else, in the mix.
Also note that kings of the beach is awesome under a blacklight.
It bothers me a lot but while I have the solution to brush on to take out the yellow, I don't have a good UV source so it is pointless. I tried on a Gameboy game and failed so I leave other things alone hoping they don't turn.
That's a common issue for many people. Some are like "Just leave it in the sun", but besides how many areas don't have sun year round, some people have no place to put it in the sun where it won't get stolen (Appartment dweallers, I feel for you)
Well now that heat is effective. Shame if you want to get into the NES/SNES sized stuff it will be nearly impossible to use a stove top. I wonder if you pulled some levels out of an oven and set that to 160F is that would work. I'm not far enough south to be anywhere near Texas to get that kind of a heat in a tub. I wonder about GB games that often yellow or SNES games with the sticker side. Could you use the salon care 40 and stuff that into the oven (electric) at 160F and let it sit for a few hours to bake it clean?
Absolutely can't stand yellowed consoles or carts, if I receive one in the mail I get rid of it as soon as possible. Same goes for sun-faded/yellowed covers. Yep, I'm a shameless stickler for condition. "One of THOSE guys", you might say.
Just a quick check here, let me know if all this sounds correct. Bromide reacts to UV light, and will glow under UV\"Blacklight", and the levels of it were not consistant from one parts batch to another.
I've noticed when shining a strongUV light on nes carts, some of them will glow, others won't. And it's generally not a "this cart glows, this one doesn't" so much as "the bottom of these 4 carts glow, and this one top cart here glows". So I'm assuming this is due to diffrent levels of bromide, or maybe something else, in the mix.
Also note that kings of the beach is awesome under a blacklight.
Not quite. The term "bromide" means a Bromine atom with an extra electron on it and thus a negative charge. With regards to the flame retardants, the Bromine atoms are attached to carbon atoms in the organic back bone. The yellowing/darkening one sees strongly in SNES consoles is not free bromine. (If it were, the SNES would stink badly and you would burn your skin by touching the yellowed console).
The yellow color comes from bromine free radicals latching onto the organic molecules that make up the ABS plastic and thus altering how they absorb light. Hence the color change. (Free radical is a term generally used to describe an atom which has an unpaired electron. Electrons want to be paired up so an unpaired electron is VERY reactive. Hence why the bromine free radical can attack other molecules and alter their colors). UV light and hot/cold cycles will cause the tentative bromine-carbon bonds to break, freeing up a bromine atom as a free-radical thus allowing it to attack other chemical bonds in the plastic.
Now the black-light thing is interesting. That could indeed be indicitive of plastics where the mixing wasn't done properly so you can see the black light being absorbed/reflected differently. Would be interesting to see how yellowed consoles look under blacklight compared to non-yellowed ones.
For retrobrighting, I have used Sally's Beauty Supply Salon Care 40 Creme and used a reptile UVB light and it have been able to restore some items. The UVB light is actually great for developing photoresist on circuit boards I've designed.
Comments
Caution: Contains graphic violence against a SNES console.
Just listen to the sound it makes when it snaps. This took incredibly little effort to break a piece off, and it had that peanut brittle CRACK to it. Two more pieces fell off as I put it back together. Also, one of the main (big, usually sturdy) round parts where the screws goes in broke off a while back, and I gorilla glued it back into place.
I thought you were overexaggerating with the warning. Nope. Haha... you look like The Hulk, there, though...
Certainly a CRACK sound.
I have never had the brittleness issue-interesting.
I have for sure. It was surprisingly brittle in fact. Incredibly fragile.
Just cleaned a super yellowed NES (what prompted this thread) and didnt have an issue at all. Even put the screws in with my makita 18v impact driver Like always (don't try that at home kids) with no stripping.
Maybe I just wasn't paying attention to the other yellowed consoles Ive cleaned.
Can someone knowledgeable explain the process that causes the fire retardant to make the plastic yellow and brittle?
This is all coming from a forensic chemistry degree I obtained many years ago, but haven't put to use in nearly as long a time. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
When the SNES was being produced, Nintendo used ABS Plastic to create the plastic shells. ABS is great because it's cheap, sturdy, and easy to injection mold into anything you would want. It's a mixture of three organic molecules that cross-link and form a cohesive structure whose properties depend upon the mixtures of each component.
Regardless of the mixture, however, one property of ABS is that it is quite flammable. Light a piece on fire and it will burn quite readily and with plenty of energy to ignite other materials. To prevent this, a flame retardent chemical that would stop a fire in the ABS plastic was required. If not added, the company producing goods from that plastic would face many lawsuits. Halogenated hydrocarbons make fantastic flame retardants as they will stifle flames of any origin really. One of the cheaper flame retardants that will readily mix with the ABS mixture while molten and not chemically react directly with the mixture is one containing bromine.
Bromine is a vile, reddish-brown liquid that vaporizes readily and is quite similar to chlorine except that it's a liquid at room temperature/pressure. Bromine stinks and also has a strong color. As the ABS mixed with this brominated hydrocarbon flame retardent is exposed to heat/cool cycles, UV light, oxygen in the air, etc., it eventually breaks down and free radicals of bromine can then attack the compounds in the ABS mixture. This causes light to be absorbed differently, and thus alters the color. One can "reverse" the process by exposing to oxygen radicals and heat/light, but eventually the yellow WILL come back.
When the bromine radicals are present, they will attack many parts of the ABS structure that formed as the plastic cooled. This results in a breakdown of the plastic structure itself which causes it to become incredibly brittle and susceptible to cracking/breaking.
Only some parts of the SNES typically yellow severely, and that's due to Nintendo eventually learning how to properly mix all of the components of the plastic and flame retardent mixture properly. Still, a lot of shells were made using the improper formula and if you are a business, you aren't going to throw something away that you've already spent time and money producing. Later runs of the SNES are more common as still gray, while earlier runs typically are fully yellowed. In the middle, you see a lot of top/bottom color differences.
Just a quick check here, let me know if all this sounds correct. Bromide reacts to UV light, and will glow under UV\"Blacklight", and the levels of it were not consistant from one parts batch to another.
I've noticed when shining a strongUV light on nes carts, some of them will glow, others won't. And it's generally not a "this cart glows, this one doesn't" so much as "the bottom of these 4 carts glow, and this one top cart here glows". So I'm assuming this is due to diffrent levels of bromide, or maybe something else, in the mix.
Also note that kings of the beach is awesome under a blacklight.
It bothers me a lot but while I have the solution to brush on to take out the yellow, I don't have a good UV source so it is pointless. I tried on a Gameboy game and failed so I leave other things alone hoping they don't turn.
That's a common issue for many people. Some are like "Just leave it in the sun", but besides how many areas don't have sun year round, some people have no place to put it in the sun where it won't get stolen (Appartment dweallers, I feel for you)
One thing that seems to work, is heat.
Just a quick check here, let me know if all this sounds correct. Bromide reacts to UV light, and will glow under UV\"Blacklight", and the levels of it were not consistant from one parts batch to another.
I've noticed when shining a strongUV light on nes carts, some of them will glow, others won't. And it's generally not a "this cart glows, this one doesn't" so much as "the bottom of these 4 carts glow, and this one top cart here glows". So I'm assuming this is due to diffrent levels of bromide, or maybe something else, in the mix.
Also note that kings of the beach is awesome under a blacklight.
Not quite. The term "bromide" means a Bromine atom with an extra electron on it and thus a negative charge. With regards to the flame retardants, the Bromine atoms are attached to carbon atoms in the organic back bone. The yellowing/darkening one sees strongly in SNES consoles is not free bromine. (If it were, the SNES would stink badly and you would burn your skin by touching the yellowed console).
The yellow color comes from bromine free radicals latching onto the organic molecules that make up the ABS plastic and thus altering how they absorb light. Hence the color change. (Free radical is a term generally used to describe an atom which has an unpaired electron. Electrons want to be paired up so an unpaired electron is VERY reactive. Hence why the bromine free radical can attack other molecules and alter their colors). UV light and hot/cold cycles will cause the tentative bromine-carbon bonds to break, freeing up a bromine atom as a free-radical thus allowing it to attack other chemical bonds in the plastic.
Now the black-light thing is interesting. That could indeed be indicitive of plastics where the mixing wasn't done properly so you can see the black light being absorbed/reflected differently. Would be interesting to see how yellowed consoles look under blacklight compared to non-yellowed ones.
For retrobrighting, I have used Sally's Beauty Supply Salon Care 40 Creme and used a reptile UVB light and it have been able to restore some items. The UVB light is actually great for developing photoresist on circuit boards I've designed.