Is there a way to delete the information on Famicom disks?
Hello all. I've recently been beefing up my FDS collection and wondering if there is any way to delete the data from a disk? I can use the FDSstick and program to overwrite disks but wanting to take disks with data written to both sides and essentially make them one sided again. I thought maybe I could get a large magnet and mess them up that way but I don't know enough to know whether or not this will do any permanent damage. Any advice?
Backstory on what I'm doing in the event anyone is interested:
Essentially I'm going for a full set. With retail releases I've been buying new sealed then opening them up and making a backup of the disk before playing the game or booting into the drive.
With games that are disk writer exclusive is where things get interesting. FYI most if not all disk writer exclusive games are single sided.
Recently I purchased one of the game cases that looks like a miniature disk writer kiosk (look them up on ebay; they're super cool but pricey going for $200-300). I'm wanting to fill this disk writer kiosk case up with only disk writer exclusive games.
Luckily when I opened my FDS to check chip and power board revision I had the earliest model. This was a huge relief because no modification was required to write disks. All I needed was an FDSstick (which I already had) and the cable which was less than $20 on Tototek. This made me appreciate my disk system more because I realized how nice it actually is. I bought it about 8 or so years ago before I got seriously into collecting but it is the type of device I'd buy today. It's super minty in a minty box and 100% complete with a low serial number. I don't remember right off hand but it's in the 15k's. The serial number matches the owners manual so I believe it's in the original box and not Frankensteined together.
I've been buying the cheapest FDS games I can get on eBay and overwriting with the disk writer exclusives; even building artwork for the cases and labels for the disks in Photoshop. For example the disk I made tonight originally had SMB2 on side A and Pro Wrestling on side B. I wrote Ice Climbers to Side A and replaced the SMB2 label with an Ice Climbers one. I've removed the Pro Wrestling label from side B but I'm bothered that the game is still on there. It may sound silly but I only want one game per disk. To further this I already own the retail release of Pro Wrestling CIB.
If anyone could advise on a good way to delete the unwanted games from all the B sides I would certainly appreciate the advice.
Edit: Does anyone know of a good replacement for the hard plastic cases? Some I have are scrubbed and scratched up. I love to have some nice shiny ones without cannibalizing sealed or good condition games.
Backstory on what I'm doing in the event anyone is interested:
Essentially I'm going for a full set. With retail releases I've been buying new sealed then opening them up and making a backup of the disk before playing the game or booting into the drive.
With games that are disk writer exclusive is where things get interesting. FYI most if not all disk writer exclusive games are single sided.
Recently I purchased one of the game cases that looks like a miniature disk writer kiosk (look them up on ebay; they're super cool but pricey going for $200-300). I'm wanting to fill this disk writer kiosk case up with only disk writer exclusive games.
Luckily when I opened my FDS to check chip and power board revision I had the earliest model. This was a huge relief because no modification was required to write disks. All I needed was an FDSstick (which I already had) and the cable which was less than $20 on Tototek. This made me appreciate my disk system more because I realized how nice it actually is. I bought it about 8 or so years ago before I got seriously into collecting but it is the type of device I'd buy today. It's super minty in a minty box and 100% complete with a low serial number. I don't remember right off hand but it's in the 15k's. The serial number matches the owners manual so I believe it's in the original box and not Frankensteined together.
I've been buying the cheapest FDS games I can get on eBay and overwriting with the disk writer exclusives; even building artwork for the cases and labels for the disks in Photoshop. For example the disk I made tonight originally had SMB2 on side A and Pro Wrestling on side B. I wrote Ice Climbers to Side A and replaced the SMB2 label with an Ice Climbers one. I've removed the Pro Wrestling label from side B but I'm bothered that the game is still on there. It may sound silly but I only want one game per disk. To further this I already own the retail release of Pro Wrestling CIB.
If anyone could advise on a good way to delete the unwanted games from all the B sides I would certainly appreciate the advice.
Edit: Does anyone know of a good replacement for the hard plastic cases? Some I have are scrubbed and scratched up. I love to have some nice shiny ones without cannibalizing sealed or good condition games.
Comments
I put it in my google drive for you to use. Here is the link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DDICNHosv3JRCuKEZjV2GE5JRD1_KuHI
Personally, I don't see why you want to erase the side B. Having a side B game only increases the value and it is very convienient. I love having a Super Mario Bros 2 disk with Super Mario Bros on the back.
Quote: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/5447/magnetic-exposure-to-floppy-disk-damages-file-system-and-requires-complete-refor#
A formatted disk contains markers which identify the start of each track and the start of each sector within the track. These markers are fixed magnetic sequences that are picked up by the drive electronics so that it knows where the sectors are.
On a full format, a completely blank disk has these markers written. This takes time as the drive must apply the markers, and check that they are correct.
On a quick format, the electronics assume that the markers are still there. The process is simply to mark the sectors as empty. Usually the sectors are overwritten with zeros, but not necessarily.
In both cases a blank directory is placed at the head of the disk by the operating system.
If you erase your disk, or part of it, using a magnet, the track sector markers are destroyed. A quick format won't find them and therefore the format and/or any write to the disk will fail.
There is some good information on track formatting of different floppy variants here. The low-level track & sector markers were often fiddled with by some software as part of a copy protection scheme.
So an obnoxiously large magnet is out of the question I'm going to attempt to load the blank side of a true one sided disk when I get home tonight and see what error the drive provides. I'm hoping it's 23 and if so I'll try SNESNESCUBE64's idea.
This is a neat website with some good error info: https://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=7142.0
From what it seems, you will be getting error 7 with a blank disk. So just write side B for some random game on it if anything. If I find out where that info is stored, I will let you know and will update the blank rom.
That should do the trick.
Well there ya go! Loopy knows his stuff. I didn't even think about using a raw file. Hmmm, I wonder if the command line version of fdsemu software can do it because its based off loopy's code... I'll have to look to see if I can find the correct software so I can properly build it...
Yes he does
If you want a disk completely blank: Create a 64kbyte .BIN file with nothing but zeros in it. Write it with FDSStick, but change the file type to .BIN when you open the file (the software won't try to interpret it as a FDS image, and just writes out the raw data).
That should do the trick.
Will do. Thanks a lot Loopy I appreciate the advise. I'm loving the FDSstick...even though I'm building a physical set it has still helped me to enjoy my FDS immensely and now being able to write disks is awesome.
About the A / B side thing, as someone who is collecting a full set of Famicom disks as well, I totally get this situation of desiring one game, one disk.
The whole thing is a bit strange for me, if you don't mind me asking for clarification on one point. So you are purchasing cheap game disks of undesirable games, then desiring to re-write them with disk-writer exclusive games, while looking to achieve a full set of games? Isn't this sort of like making "repro" NES carts to obtain a full set? Turn a shitty game like Pro Wrestling into something nice? Even though the disk writer service did something somewhat similar, I think there is a huge difference between using the service back in the day, printing off the manual and label as well back then, versus using rom images and modern technologies, printing off your own labels and what not. To each his own though, I suppose.
About the A / B side thing, as someone who is collecting a full set of Famicom disks as well, I totally get this situation of desiring one game, one disk.
Ethically what I'm doing is exactly like making repros of NES games to achieve a full set. For disk writer games that are available to purchase I am doing so then making a custom cover but there are a few that are practically unobtainable like Clu-Clu Land and Wrecking Crew for instance. For unobtainable games I am making repros.
Ethically what I'm doing is exactly like making repros of NES games to achieve a full set. For disk writer games that are available to purchase I am doing so then making a custom cover but there are a few that are practically unobtainable like Clu-Clu Land and Wrecking Crew for instance. For unobtainable games I am making repros.
If you want to get past the "ethics" part of it, just buy some extra copies of cheaper legit disk writer games which were priced similarly to the rare/unobtainable games back in the day and use those to write your ROMs to. Save the actual act of having those games written to those exact disks back in the day, you're accomplishing exactly the same thing with exactly the same data that would have been used back at that time. I don't think it bothers you, but if you want to have your slate 100% squeaky clean, this might well do for a moral workaround.
When talking about digital data, there's no such thing as "no data" - it is literally just 1s and 0s, so as I see it, the most obvious thing is just to fill the side with entirely 0 or 1, or just plain garbage.
I don't understand the issue exactly. You have a method to write an entire game to one side of a disk, but why aren't you able to use the exact same method to just write blank data to the other side?
When talking about digital data, there's no such thing as "no data" - it is literally just 1s and 0s, so as I see it, the most obvious thing is just to fill the side with entirely 0 or 1, or just plain garbage.
It is really simple I just didn't know how to do it. Loopy's method works.
The whole thing is a bit strange for me, if you don't mind me asking for clarification on one point. So you are purchasing cheap game disks of undesirable games, then desiring to re-write them with disk-writer exclusive games, while looking to achieve a full set of games? Isn't this sort of like making "repro" NES carts to obtain a full set? Turn a shitty game like Pro Wrestling into something nice? Even though the disk writer service did something somewhat similar, I think there is a huge difference between using the service back in the day, printing off the manual and label as well back then, versus using rom images and modern technologies, printing off your own labels and what not. To each his own though, I suppose.
About the A / B side thing, as someone who is collecting a full set of Famicom disks as well, I totally get this situation of desiring one game, one disk.
Ethically what I'm doing is exactly like making repros of NES games to achieve a full set. For disk writer games that are available to purchase I am doing so then making a custom cover but there are a few that are practically unobtainable like Clu-Clu Land and Wrecking Crew for instance. For unobtainable games I am making repros.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I hope I wasn't too antagonistic in my previous message, I was truly just curious about it, and about your thoughts on the matter. In the west, there are few people collecting FDS games, I reckon, and likewise some of this stuff ultimately ends up being like splitting hairs, so I was just curious to hear another collector's opinion. I hope I didn't offend.
The whole thing is a bit strange for me, if you don't mind me asking for clarification on one point. So you are purchasing cheap game disks of undesirable games, then desiring to re-write them with disk-writer exclusive games, while looking to achieve a full set of games? Isn't this sort of like making "repro" NES carts to obtain a full set? Turn a shitty game like Pro Wrestling into something nice? Even though the disk writer service did something somewhat similar, I think there is a huge difference between using the service back in the day, printing off the manual and label as well back then, versus using rom images and modern technologies, printing off your own labels and what not. To each his own though, I suppose.
About the A / B side thing, as someone who is collecting a full set of Famicom disks as well, I totally get this situation of desiring one game, one disk.
Ethically what I'm doing is exactly like making repros of NES games to achieve a full set. For disk writer games that are available to purchase I am doing so then making a custom cover but there are a few that are practically unobtainable like Clu-Clu Land and Wrecking Crew for instance. For unobtainable games I am making repros.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I hope I wasn't too antagonistic in my previous message, I was truly just curious about it, and about your thoughts on the matter. In the west, there are few people collecting FDS games, I reckon, and likewise some of this stuff ultimately ends up being like splitting hairs, so I was just curious to hear another collector's opinion. I hope I didn't offend.
No offense taken. I definitely wouldn't want to this thread to be the 1000th conversation about the ethics of repros as it's been beat to death. My opinion is that what I'm doing is no different than what a disk writer kiosk would do except I'm improving on the original by making covers. I definitely won't accept a repro retail release because I have to have them 100% CIB to the point I'm buying them sealed then opening them. This way all the cases have no scratches, back UPC code matches the manual and the diskun sticker is intact.
I've been storing them in NES manual bags. It's pretty snug but they fit. Do you use anything to keep the dust off?
How many games do you have by now?
I also have one of those disk-writer storage cases, those are pretty neat.
Looks like the kiosk is homemade but still cool.
Since this thread is about fds then I think you guys will like this.
Looks like the kiosk is homemade but still cool.
That's awesome. Thanks for the share. I've been daydreaming of a way to mod one of the disk writer kiosk storage cases to install an LCD to play the video on loop with or without sound. I'm not too crafty though
Probably about 90% of my disks were also new / sealed, opened up by the previous owner and then I had bought them. So I just have mine in the original cases, nothing to keep the dust off of the cases though.
How many games do you have by now?
I also have one of those disk-writer storage cases, those are pretty neat.
Counting the 4 I'm awaiting in the mail I'm at 28 so about 1/8th done. I'll likely never finish though as that's how I usually roll. I only need around 50 NES then started to lose interest and switched to FDS about 1-2 months ago. I'll drag it out as long as possible or switch to something else when it becomes too difficult or expensive or the only thing left is games I can't play due to English only in combination with expensive.
A small part of me would like to get into FDS collecting too. I think the system itself is good looking, and it has a very interesting story behind it. Also, the disks themselves are cute af and I really like the Diskun character too! My main issue though is the fragility of both the system and the magnetic media format. I don't even much like collecting regular optical disc based systems, for fear of scratches and mechanical faults, and FDS is basically taking this problem to a whole new level, lol! Good luck with your collecting tho, maybe one day I will dip my toe in too!
So far I haven't had any issue with reliability but I've probably just gotten lucky. I bought a CIB console years ago that the seller had replaced the belt on. The only issue I've had with it is it does not run on battery power; only on AC adapter. I opened it up and couldn't see anything obviously wrong and I do not have a multimeter or much experience with one to test. Does anyone know if this is a common problem with a common solution? I would like to return my G1 Genesis adapter back to its proper home lol.
All my retail games except two I've bought sealed so no surprise they work. I guess you could still destroy them with a magnet through the packaging but dust and overwritten data have not been an issue. Of all the junk games I've bought to overwrite I haven't had an issue with them either. Admittedly with retail games I've only attempted to boot about half of them
I've read some on the internet whereas people say that when you overwrite a disk using the console that it's unlikely to play on other consoles that's aren't calibrated exactly the same. Anyone know if this is true?
In summation I'm having a blast collecting for the system. The only negative I'm experiencing is waiting for international shipping as I've been buying from Japan. The biggest positive for collecting for the system is price, I've only paid over $100 for a handful of items. A lot of the Nintendo sports games and Mahjong type games are only 20-30 sealed.
My interest was sparked by an FDS book my wiife bought me and when I realized I could use the RAM adapter with my AVS. Also let none of us forget that diskun is the cutest fucking thing ever invented.
A small part of me would like to get into FDS collecting too. I think the system itself is good looking, and it has a very interesting story behind it. Also, the disks themselves are cute af and I really like the Diskun character too! My main issue though is the fragility of both the system and the magnetic media format. I don't even much like collecting regular optical disc based systems, for fear of scratches and mechanical faults, and FDS is basically taking this problem to a whole new level, lol! Good luck with your collecting tho, maybe one day I will dip my toe in too!
So far I haven't had any issue with reliability but I've probably just gotten lucky. I bought a CIB console years ago that the seller had replaced the belt on. The only issue I've had with it is it does not run on battery power; only on AC adapter. I opened it up and couldn't see anything obviously wrong and I do not have a multimeter or much experience with one to test. Does anyone know if this is a common problem with a common solution? I would like to return my G1 Genesis adapter back to its proper home lol. All my retail games except two I've bought sealed so no surprise they work. I guess you could still destroy them with a magnet through the packaging but dust and overwritten data have not been an issue. Of all the junk games I've bought to overwrite I haven't had an issue with them either. Admittedly with retail games I've only attempted to boot about half of them I've read some on the internet whereas people say that when you overwrite a disk using the console that it's unlikely to play on other consoles that's aren't calibrated exactly the same. Anyone know if this is true? In summation I'm having a blast collecting for the system. The only negative I'm experiencing is waiting for international shipping as I've been buying from Japan. The biggest positive for collecting for the system is price, I've only paid over $100 for a handful of items. A lot of the Nintendo sports games and Mahjong type games are only 20-30 sealed. My interest was sparked by an FDS book my wiife bought me and when I realized I could use the RAM adapter with my AVS. Also let none of us forget that diskun is the cutest fucking thing ever invented.
When you try and run your FDS with batteries what does it do when it does not work? I just got back from Japan and I got an FDS system that was working at first and now I can't get power to it at all. I checked the belt and it has been replaced. The board even seems to have power based on the multimeter. I tried batteries and an ac adapater (genesis 1 or original famicom). I get no error codes it just does not detect that I have inserted a game at all.
I have no regrets getting the system it was not expensive from Japan. Around $50 US for the bundle with ram adapter. I also found a junk $8 famicom that worked great after a clean.
When you try and run your FDS with batteries what does it do when it does not work? I just got back from Japan and I got an FDS system that was working at first and now I can't get power to it at all. I checked the belt and it has been replaced. The board even seems to have power based on the multimeter. I tried batteries and an ac adapater (genesis 1 or original famicom). I get no error codes it just does not detect that I have inserted a game at all.
I have no regrets getting the system it was not expensive from Japan. Around $50 US for the bundle with ram adapter. I also found a junk $8 famicom that worked great after a clean.
Silly question, but are you sure your ram adapter is fine? You would get SOMETHING if you inserted a disk unless you accidentally broke one of the internal switches. If you insert a disk and the drive does not have power or the batteries are dead, I believe you get error 01. If you can verify your ram adapter and it checks out, then start looking at the mechanical switches inside the disk system. I had to use tweezers to fix one of the switches once, they are rather fragile.
When you try and run your FDS with batteries what does it do when it does not work? I just got back from Japan and I got an FDS system that was working at first and now I can't get power to it at all. I checked the belt and it has been replaced. The board even seems to have power based on the multimeter. I tried batteries and an ac adapater (genesis 1 or original famicom). I get no error codes it just does not detect that I have inserted a game at all.
I have no regrets getting the system it was not expensive from Japan. Around $50 US for the bundle with ram adapter. I also found a junk $8 famicom that worked great after a clean.
Silly question, but are you sure your ram adapter is fine? You would get SOMETHING if you inserted a disk unless you accidentally broke one of the internal switches. If you insert a disk and the drive does not have power or the batteries are dead, I believe you get error 01. If you can verify your ram adapter and it checks out, then start looking at the mechanical switches inside the disk system. I had to use tweezers to fix one of the switches once, they are rather fragile.
Yeah I get no error at all on the system. How do I verify the ram adapter is ok? I took it apart and cleaned all the contacts. I also tried the select+start ram check and that came back fine.
When you try and run your FDS with batteries what does it do when it does not work? I just got back from Japan and I got an FDS system that was working at first and now I can't get power to it at all. I checked the belt and it has been replaced. The board even seems to have power based on the multimeter. I tried batteries and an ac adapater (genesis 1 or original famicom). I get no error codes it just does not detect that I have inserted a game at all.
I have no regrets getting the system it was not expensive from Japan. Around $50 US for the bundle with ram adapter. I also found a junk $8 famicom that worked great after a clean.
Silly question, but are you sure your ram adapter is fine? You would get SOMETHING if you inserted a disk unless you accidentally broke one of the internal switches. If you insert a disk and the drive does not have power or the batteries are dead, I believe you get error 01. If you can verify your ram adapter and it checks out, then start looking at the mechanical switches inside the disk system. I had to use tweezers to fix one of the switches once, they are rather fragile.
Yeah I get no error at all on the system. How do I verify the ram adapter is ok? I took it apart and cleaned all the contacts. I also tried the select+start ram check and that came back fine.
I didn't know that there was a ram check. But anyway, the way I checked mine was to open up the ram adapter and check the cord for continuity with a multimeter. Out of curiosity, did you at any point plug an NES AC adapter? If you did, you probably fried the disk system. If nothing else works, check the the mechanical switches, make sure it is actually properly switching when you put in the disk.
When you try and run your FDS with batteries what does it do when it does not work? I just got back from Japan and I got an FDS system that was working at first and now I can't get power to it at all. I checked the belt and it has been replaced. The board even seems to have power based on the multimeter. I tried batteries and an ac adapater (genesis 1 or original famicom). I get no error codes it just does not detect that I have inserted a game at all.
I have no regrets getting the system it was not expensive from Japan. Around $50 US for the bundle with ram adapter. I also found a junk $8 famicom that worked great after a clean.
Silly question, but are you sure your ram adapter is fine? You would get SOMETHING if you inserted a disk unless you accidentally broke one of the internal switches. If you insert a disk and the drive does not have power or the batteries are dead, I believe you get error 01. If you can verify your ram adapter and it checks out, then start looking at the mechanical switches inside the disk system. I had to use tweezers to fix one of the switches once, they are rather fragile.
Yeah I get no error at all on the system. How do I verify the ram adapter is ok? I took it apart and cleaned all the contacts. I also tried the select+start ram check and that came back fine.
I didn't know that there was a ram check. But anyway, the way I checked mine was to open up the ram adapter and check the cord for continuity with a multimeter. Out of curiosity, did you at any point plug an NES AC adapter? If you did, you probably fried the disk system. If nothing else works, check the the mechanical switches, make sure it is actually properly switching when you put in the disk.
No way I don't even use an official NES AC adapter I keep that sealed with a label. I use only a genesis 1 on my nes and on the disk system.
I will open up my ram adapter tonight and check around with the multimeter. Thanks a lot for your help.