If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams.
Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year. That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams.
Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year. That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams. Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year. That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
Your posts about Rodgers are a joke quite honestly. If Rodgers and Favre are failures then what was Romo, lol. Romo's biggest playoff highlight is fumbling away a FG snap. CBS actually has it as the 3rd biggest playoff choke in history, haha.
Rodgers and Favre are all-time greats no debating that. Where you want to rank people on the list is inconsquential because it is unanimous they belong there. And in the Rodgers / Brees comparison I can't believe you forgot to mention the run game. Saints have had a running game for a long while, and plenty of receiving backs to fit the system dating back to Reggie Bush. I can't even name a great Packers running back because they haven't had one. Lacy? He's Trent Richardson 2.0. Ryan Grant maybe? Hardly great but maybe good, not a bell cow though.
Rodgers is the Packers and he's elite no questions asked. Brees / Brady / Rodgers are generally the top 3 QBs in the league today however you want to rank them. Arguing whether one is #2 or #3 is kinda pointless.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams. Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year. That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
Your posts about Rodgers are a joke quite honestly. If Rodgers and Favre are failures then what was Romo, lol. Romo's biggest playoff highlight is fumbling away a FG snap. CBS actually has it as the 3rd biggest playoff choke in history, haha.
Rodgers and Favre are all-time greats no debating that. Where you want to rank people on the list is inconsquential because it is unanimous they belong there. And in the Rodgers / Brees comparison I can't believe you forgot to mention the run game. Saints have had a running game for a long while, and plenty of receiving backs to fit the system dating back to Reggie Bush. I can't even name a great Packers running back because they haven't had one. Lacy? He's Trent Richardson 2.0. Ryan Grant maybe? Hardly great but maybe good, not a bell cow though.
Rodgers is the Packers and he's elite no questions asked. Brees / Brady / Rodgers are generally the top 3 QBs in the league today however you want to rank them. Arguing whether one is #2 or #3 is kinda pointless.
Again, why do you people always bring up other QBs as if it somehow is a defense of the guy im talking about? I know Romo was a failure. I know Marino is overrated. Enough of these logical fallacy based arguments please.
Saints have not ever really had a prolific run game. Reggie Bush ended up being an average running back and a backup for most his career. Same with Mark Ingram. Same with every running back they've had until now with their best running back maybe ever in Kamara. The Saints have never been a running team and have passed way more than they have run. The stats are very comparable to the packers run game over the last 10 years. This does not help the Rodgers argument at all.
Farve is not an all time great. I stand firm on this. He is the most overrated QB in NFL history. That is right I said it. Most overrated of all time. He had 1 super bowl run with a great packers team and a bunch of playoff failures to talk about. The Eagles 4th and 27 game where he threw it right to Brian Dawkins. The Vikings game where in field goal range he threw a pick at the end of the 4th that cost them the game. The giants championship game where (you guessed it) game losing interception to set the giants up for the FG. just to name a few. I wouldn't put Farve anywhere near the top 10 QBs of all time. I'd put Bart Starr above Farve. Farve is a glorified Joe Flacco that just played for a long time. 336 interceptions.
Rodgers is a better player than Farve ever was. Let's just get that out of the way.
That being said, I'm not putting Rodgers in the top 10 QBs of all time yet. He is in the top 20 at this point but he hasn't proven enough in the post season yet to justify a top 10 all time QB for me yet. He plays to average for me. Unless it is against my Cowboys then he is great, sadly. Anyone else though he looks average.
Not going to keep going on the Rodgers debate, his play and MVP's (including SB MVP) speak measures on their own. He is arguably the best and most capable QB on the planet, while his team accomplishments don't show that. I agree 100% with Jone, but do hold some salty feelings about Favre which was why I originally mentioned him with Romo earlier - while he is a top-20 QB of all-time (smh if you feel otherwise), he did have several season-ending "choke" moments.
I can think of a few with the Packers as you mentioned, especially the NFC Championship OT Int against the Giants was painful - and towards the tail-end of his career especially, as our NA Vikings fans will remember that across the body Int to end that damn good season he had there (NFC championship there too IIRC).
Regardless of those, that was the type of QB Favre was - he was Hero gunslinger or bust, as to most that translates to choking fine but he never cared about interceptions obviously. They wouldn't have gotten that far without him - none of those teams.
Whether you want to admit it or not, QB's making it to Conference Championship games speak measures too - getting to the SB is not an easy task it's usually the hottest team at that time of the year. If we want to consider the Patriots on this topic, they are an amazingly coached and run organization, but keep in mind they also are in arguably the weakest division in the NFL (and IMO weaker conference).
Favre broke several NFL records, has the insane consecutive start streak still to this day which will probably never be touched - there is no arguing he was a top-20 QB.
Not going to keep going on the Rodgers debate, his play and MVP's (including SB MVP) speak measures on their own. He is arguably the best and most capable QB on the planet, while his team accomplishments don't show that. I agree 100% with Jone, but do hold some salty feelings about Favre which was why I originally mentioned him with Romo earlier - while he is a top-20 QB of all-time (smh if you feel otherwise), he did have several season-ending "choke" moments.
I can think of a few with the Packers as you mentioned, especially the NFC Championship OT Int against the Giants was painful - and towards the tail-end of his career especially, as our NA Vikings fans will remember that across the body Int to end that damn good season he had there (NFC championship there too IIRC).
Regardless of those, that was the type of QB Favre was - he was Hero gunslinger or bust, as to most that translates to choking fine but he never cared about interceptions obviously. They wouldn't have gotten that far without him - none of those teams.
Whether you want to admit it or not, QB's making it to Conference Championship games speak measures too - getting to the SB is not an easy task it's usually the hottest team at that time of the year. If we want to consider the Patriots on this topic, they are an amazingly coached and run organization, but keep in mind they also are in arguably the weakest division in the NFL (and IMO weaker conference).
Favre broke several NFL records, has the insane consecutive start streak still to this day which will probably never be touched - there is no arguing he was a top-20 QB.
If Farve is top 20 I will allow it only because of his longevity. But he is not top 10 let alone top 5. That's ridiculous. Rodgers has already eclipsed him on the all time list. And I think Rodgers is a top 20 only QB of all time but not top 10.
Then who are in your top ten? Unitas? Starr? Because it's almost impossible to compare such radically different eras.
Right now these are some names that come to mind in no particular order.
Brady, Montana, Brees, Manning, Elway, Staughbach, Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Marino, Young. These guys fill my top 10.
If I really thought about it and ranked them I'd go
1. Brady 2. Montana 3. Manning 4. Unitas 5. Elway 6. Staughbach 7. Graham 8. Brees 9. Marino 10. Young
If Rodgers at least brings his team to a super bowl again or wins a few more playoff games in which he plays well against a good defense, then I'll concede to let him in top 10. But not yet. Rodgers is not too far from number 10. Hes close. Most people have him top 10 already and that is why he is overrated.
So you don't hold Marino's lack of a ring or underwhelming playoff record against him too?
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
So you don't hold Marino's lack of a ring or underwhelming playoff record against him too?
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10. He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
It's funny because everything you said about Marino is exactly why he is higher up on my list. A lack of Ring means nothing in my opinion. Terrible QB's by NFL standards have won Championships. To me, playing on a team that wins Championships is often times more indicative of good coaching rather than greatness at QB. Personally, (And I might get some flack for this) I do not believe Tom Brady should be number 1 for this very reason.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10. He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
It's funny because everything you said about Marino is exactly why he is higher up on my list. A lack of Ring means nothing in my opinion. Terrible QB's by NFL standards have won Championships. To me, playing on a team that wins Championships is often times more indicative of good coaching rather than greatness at QB. Personally, (And I might get some flack for this) I do not believe Tom Brady should be number 1 for this very reason.
I agree that people put way too much weight into super bowls for ranking players. That being said Brady is number 1 of all time and it isn't even close. The amount of times he has carried his team to come back wins in the playoffs and the super bowl is disgusting. He is the most fearless and most clutch QB I have ever seen. He always plays his best in the biggest of games. I hate the pats and I don't like Brady but dammit if the guy doesn't ever quit. And he's still playing good football in his 40s. Nobody can match his accomplishments on the all time list.
Rodgers also has the uncanny ability to make something out of nothing. Manning was great but fell down like a sack of potatoes when a defender got close. Brady is great and more willing to take the hit but not exactly a scrambler. Elway and Young were the most successful mobile pocket passer (as opposed to a Vick who always wanted to run) but Rodgers possess a unique ability that others do not. That counts for something.
As for Favre, he's not the best ever but he belongs in top 10 discussion. I'm talking of top 10 of the 80/90s to present era though, I didn't watch Unitas / etc. and won't pretend to know all about them. He was the toughest QB to ever play, bar none and he had to be one of the hardest throwing QBs of all time too. Yeah he was a gunslinger and threw picks but he's about as badass of a QB as you could get. He also could have been the only other QB to take 2 teams to a Super Bowl (Warner) if he hadn't had his ankle destroyed in that Saints playoff game (which he played through, of course).
And rings do matter to an extent but not the end all be-all. Especially if you get 2, like Flacco and Eli. They aren't top 10 QBs but that does cement them as HOFers. You can argue that someone can get lucky once but if you win two that isn't luck. Flacco is also 2-2 against Brady in the playoffs so we can thank him for Brady's ring count being at least 2 less than where it is.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
Otto Graham, another example won 7 championships in his career. 4 AAFC chamionships then later when they joined the NFL 3 NFL chamionships. He also was very immpressive statistically in touchdowns despite playing only 12-14 games per season. His statistics look like modern day numbers in TDs despite far less attempts. usually in the 20-30 range.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
This reasoning makes no sense? Brees has one ring, just like Rodgers. Manning was the poster child for choking in the playoffs until he finally won one. And for his second ring he was barely a Trent Dilfer game manager who got carried by his defense. Rodgers hasn't carried his team any less than Brees or Manning.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
Otto Graham, another example won 7 championships in his career. 4 AAFC chamionships then later when they joined the NFL 3 NFL chamionships. He also was very immpressive statistically in touchdowns despite playing only 12-14 games per season. His statistics look like modern day numbers in TDs despite far less attempts. usually in the 20-30 range.
Judging based on how much someone means to their team? Wasn't that my entire argument? Single best way to judge this is to look at MVP awards, yep Rodgers has multiple and a SB MVP.
At this point, it's clear you simply don't respect Rodgers and must be bitter over his play against the Cowboys. I mean, help me remember, didn't he win that one year in the playoffs against Dallas, on one leg?
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
Otto Graham, another example won 7 championships in his career. 4 AAFC chamionships then later when they joined the NFL 3 NFL chamionships. He also was very immpressive statistically in touchdowns despite playing only 12-14 games per season. His statistics look like modern day numbers in TDs despite far less attempts. usually in the 20-30 range.
Judging based on how much someone means to their team? Wasn't that my entire argument? Single best way to judge this is to look at MVP awards, yep Rodgers has multiple and a SB MVP.
At this point, it's clear you simply don't respect Rodgers and must be bitter over his play against the Cowboys. I mean, help me remember, didn't he win that one year in the playoffs against Dallas, on one leg?
Wrong. MVPs don't mean much at all. Those are regular season awards. He only plays well against Dallas in the playoffs. Oh and we were jobbed in that game. Dez caught it. Romo played just as well.
I never said I don't respect Rodgers. I just said he isn't on my top 10 list and that he is overrated because of people who do.. I know the guy is a great QB.
At the point, it's clear that you are a biased Packers fan who loves to defend his QB at all costs.
Comments
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams.
Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year.
That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams.
Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year.
That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams. Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year. That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
Your posts about Rodgers are a joke quite honestly. If Rodgers and Favre are failures then what was Romo, lol. Romo's biggest playoff highlight is fumbling away a FG snap. CBS actually has it as the 3rd biggest playoff choke in history, haha.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-biggest-chokes-in-sports-history/3/
Rodgers and Favre are all-time greats no debating that. Where you want to rank people on the list is inconsquential because it is unanimous they belong there. And in the Rodgers / Brees comparison I can't believe you forgot to mention the run game. Saints have had a running game for a long while, and plenty of receiving backs to fit the system dating back to Reggie Bush. I can't even name a great Packers running back because they haven't had one. Lacy? He's Trent Richardson 2.0. Ryan Grant maybe? Hardly great but maybe good, not a bell cow though.
Rodgers is the Packers and he's elite no questions asked. Brees / Brady / Rodgers are generally the top 3 QBs in the league today however you want to rank them. Arguing whether one is #2 or #3 is kinda pointless.
If you ask me though, I believe Brees is every bit as worthy of a QB on the all time list as Rodgers. The Packers are just a better run franchise than the Saints. Keep in mind too, Rodgers has a lot of playoff failures. Take the one 2010 super bowl year away and Rodgers is labled a playoff choker which he has been since 2010. He has played badly when it mattered most.
I would be genuinely interested in what playoff games Rodgers has lost for the Packers or as you are calling it "choked". This isn't Romo here, or Favre - I intimately recall several of our seasons ending absolutely not because of Rodgers, but mega-confidently because of weak ass defenses and a special teams self-destruction.
Vividly there were 1 or 2 years the 49ers whooped us (weak defense), 1 or 2 years the Cardinals whooped us (again, defense), and the insanely wild ending to the Seahawks NFC championship game (special teams). That Seahawks game, we 99.9% stamped our way to Super Bowl #2 with Rodgers.
Rodgers has been clutch as shit in countless situations...
It wasn't so much a moment in the playoff games where he blew it and lost the game. He just played mediocre in the playoff games where the team lost. The 49ers made him look average at best. The seahawks one he didn't play very well. Only scored 19 points. Brady lit the same team up in the super bowl two weeks later. The Falcons game he played terribly until garbage time. The cardinals game in 2016 he was bad until two hail mary lucky plays on the same drive to force OT. The list is long. He plays really well in the regular season, and then in the playoffs he will light up a bad defense the first game, but as soon as he plays an above average defense in the playoffs he plays mediocre.
I watch him in the playoff losses and I watch Brees in his playoff losses, and Brees outperforms Rodgers by a lot. The Saints don't ever get blown out in the postseason even with a mediocre defense because Brees comes ready to play.
Umm...yeah okay I guess we'll agree to disagree. A single player cannot make up for team deficiencies. Rodgers already does this FAR more than he should have to - have you seen the Packers without Rodgers? It's a team that would get whooped by Alabama on their bad day, consistently.
If you played mix and match with coaching staffs, defenses, playmakers - Rodgers would be top 5 all-time 0 questions asked. Hell, he still might be at the end of the day - he hits windows like no other QB can. A healthy Rodgers on the run is straight lethal.
Keep in mind, he's essentially never had a solid run game, consistent TE play, nor an amazing o-line. I've watched the Packers closely for years - he carries the Packers every...single...year.
If you wanna dog Rodgers and get THIS nit picky, what does that say about a ringless Marino? I can tell there will be no point in debating this with you.
I'm not talking about Marino. Im talking about Rodgers. And Rodgers usually has among the most time to throw of any QB in the league. 5 second pockets are common. That's fantastic. Pass protection is a forte for the Packers. Partially because they have a technique that basically legalizes holding without looking like obvious holding. But it works. The Packers aren't just a terrible team without Rodgers. The receivers are usually quality and there is enough talent on the defense for the Packers to win games without needing to score 30 points every game. When the backup last year took over last season the Packers narrowly lost games against good teams like the Steelers. With Rodgers you win those games sure but the Packers held their own. Same can't be said for years past saints teams. Point being. The Packers are a well run franchise and Rodgers is a very talented QB. He is just overrated in the playoffs. What is he like 4-6 or 5-6 since 2010? Now I give him plenty of credit for being a great regular season QB and having his team in then post season every year. That's not easy to do. But for the losses, Rodgers definitely deserves a little bit of the blame. You can't expect to have an all world team to win playoff games every year. Sometimes you have to seal the deal with just a decent team around you. Rodgers hasn't been able to do that in 8 years. He's like another Brett Farve in the playoffs. 1 ring. A bunch of playoff failures. Overrated.
Your posts about Rodgers are a joke quite honestly. If Rodgers and Favre are failures then what was Romo, lol. Romo's biggest playoff highlight is fumbling away a FG snap. CBS actually has it as the 3rd biggest playoff choke in history, haha.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/...
Rodgers and Favre are all-time greats no debating that. Where you want to rank people on the list is inconsquential because it is unanimous they belong there. And in the Rodgers / Brees comparison I can't believe you forgot to mention the run game. Saints have had a running game for a long while, and plenty of receiving backs to fit the system dating back to Reggie Bush. I can't even name a great Packers running back because they haven't had one. Lacy? He's Trent Richardson 2.0. Ryan Grant maybe? Hardly great but maybe good, not a bell cow though.
Rodgers is the Packers and he's elite no questions asked. Brees / Brady / Rodgers are generally the top 3 QBs in the league today however you want to rank them. Arguing whether one is #2 or #3 is kinda pointless.
Again, why do you people always bring up other QBs as if it somehow is a defense of the guy im talking about? I know Romo was a failure. I know Marino is overrated. Enough of these logical fallacy based arguments please.
Saints have not ever really had a prolific run game. Reggie Bush ended up being an average running back and a backup for most his career. Same with Mark Ingram. Same with every running back they've had until now with their best running back maybe ever in Kamara. The Saints have never been a running team and have passed way more than they have run. The stats are very comparable to the packers run game over the last 10 years. This does not help the Rodgers argument at all.
Farve is not an all time great. I stand firm on this. He is the most overrated QB in NFL history. That is right I said it. Most overrated of all time. He had 1 super bowl run with a great packers team and a bunch of playoff failures to talk about. The Eagles 4th and 27 game where he threw it right to Brian Dawkins. The Vikings game where in field goal range he threw a pick at the end of the 4th that cost them the game. The giants championship game where (you guessed it) game losing interception to set the giants up for the FG. just to name a few. I wouldn't put Farve anywhere near the top 10 QBs of all time. I'd put Bart Starr above Farve. Farve is a glorified Joe Flacco that just played for a long time. 336 interceptions.
Rodgers is a better player than Farve ever was. Let's just get that out of the way.
That being said, I'm not putting Rodgers in the top 10 QBs of all time yet. He is in the top 20 at this point but he hasn't proven enough in the post season yet to justify a top 10 all time QB for me yet. He plays to average for me. Unless it is against my Cowboys then he is great, sadly. Anyone else though he looks average.
I can think of a few with the Packers as you mentioned, especially the NFC Championship OT Int against the Giants was painful - and towards the tail-end of his career especially, as our NA Vikings fans will remember that across the body Int to end that damn good season he had there (NFC championship there too IIRC).
Regardless of those, that was the type of QB Favre was - he was Hero gunslinger or bust, as to most that translates to choking fine but he never cared about interceptions obviously. They wouldn't have gotten that far without him - none of those teams.
Whether you want to admit it or not, QB's making it to Conference Championship games speak measures too - getting to the SB is not an easy task it's usually the hottest team at that time of the year. If we want to consider the Patriots on this topic, they are an amazingly coached and run organization, but keep in mind they also are in arguably the weakest division in the NFL (and IMO weaker conference).
Favre broke several NFL records, has the insane consecutive start streak still to this day which will probably never be touched - there is no arguing he was a top-20 QB.
Not going to keep going on the Rodgers debate, his play and MVP's (including SB MVP) speak measures on their own. He is arguably the best and most capable QB on the planet, while his team accomplishments don't show that. I agree 100% with Jone, but do hold some salty feelings about Favre which was why I originally mentioned him with Romo earlier - while he is a top-20 QB of all-time (smh if you feel otherwise), he did have several season-ending "choke" moments.
I can think of a few with the Packers as you mentioned, especially the NFC Championship OT Int against the Giants was painful - and towards the tail-end of his career especially, as our NA Vikings fans will remember that across the body Int to end that damn good season he had there (NFC championship there too IIRC).
Regardless of those, that was the type of QB Favre was - he was Hero gunslinger or bust, as to most that translates to choking fine but he never cared about interceptions obviously. They wouldn't have gotten that far without him - none of those teams.
Whether you want to admit it or not, QB's making it to Conference Championship games speak measures too - getting to the SB is not an easy task it's usually the hottest team at that time of the year. If we want to consider the Patriots on this topic, they are an amazingly coached and run organization, but keep in mind they also are in arguably the weakest division in the NFL (and IMO weaker conference).
Favre broke several NFL records, has the insane consecutive start streak still to this day which will probably never be touched - there is no arguing he was a top-20 QB.
If Farve is top 20 I will allow it only because of his longevity. But he is not top 10 let alone top 5. That's ridiculous. Rodgers has already eclipsed him on the all time list. And I think Rodgers is a top 20 only QB of all time but not top 10.
Then who are in your top ten? Unitas? Starr? Because it's almost impossible to compare such radically different eras.
Right now these are some names that come to mind in no particular order.
Brady, Montana, Brees, Manning, Elway, Staughbach, Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Marino, Young. These guys fill my top 10.
If I really thought about it and ranked them I'd go
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Manning
4. Unitas
5. Elway
6. Staughbach
7. Graham
8. Brees
9. Marino
10. Young
If Rodgers at least brings his team to a super bowl again or wins a few more playoff games in which he plays well against a good defense, then I'll concede to let him in top 10. But not yet. Rodgers is not too far from number 10. Hes close. Most people have him top 10 already and that is why he is overrated.
So you don't hold Marino's lack of a ring or underwhelming playoff record against him too?
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
So you don't hold Marino's lack of a ring or underwhelming playoff record against him too?
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-tdintratio
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10. He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
It's funny because everything you said about Marino is exactly why he is higher up on my list. A lack of Ring means nothing in my opinion. Terrible QB's by NFL standards have won Championships. To me, playing on a team that wins Championships is often times more indicative of good coaching rather than greatness at QB. Personally, (And I might get some flack for this) I do not believe Tom Brady should be number 1 for this very reason.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Yes and no. While many people put him top 5 qbs of all time I don't I put him closer to the 10 spot because of the no ring status. However, he also played and put up modern day numbers in an era where the rules allowed the defense to do a lot more than they can do today. It was harder to play well as a QB back then. What he did in the statistical catagory and how he innovated the QB position was groundbreaking. He also played on a generally pretty bad dolphins team most of the time that would make the Packers teams today minus Rodgers look like contenders. They gave up a lot of points. To win Marino had to score a lot of points most the time. He was still able to take them to the playoffs a lot. 18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10. He also took his team to the super bowl in the 1984 season but he lost to the Bill Walsh 49ers. Can't put too much of that loss on Dan when he played one of the greatest dynasty teams ever.
It's funny because everything you said about Marino is exactly why he is higher up on my list. A lack of Ring means nothing in my opinion. Terrible QB's by NFL standards have won Championships. To me, playing on a team that wins Championships is often times more indicative of good coaching rather than greatness at QB. Personally, (And I might get some flack for this) I do not believe Tom Brady should be number 1 for this very reason.
I agree that people put way too much weight into super bowls for ranking players. That being said Brady is number 1 of all time and it isn't even close. The amount of times he has carried his team to come back wins in the playoffs and the super bowl is disgusting. He is the most fearless and most clutch QB I have ever seen. He always plays his best in the biggest of games. I hate the pats and I don't like Brady but dammit if the guy doesn't ever quit. And he's still playing good football in his 40s. Nobody can match his accomplishments on the all time list.
As for Favre, he's not the best ever but he belongs in top 10 discussion. I'm talking of top 10 of the 80/90s to present era though, I didn't watch Unitas / etc. and won't pretend to know all about them. He was the toughest QB to ever play, bar none and he had to be one of the hardest throwing QBs of all time too. Yeah he was a gunslinger and threw picks but he's about as badass of a QB as you could get. He also could have been the only other QB to take 2 teams to a Super Bowl (Warner) if he hadn't had his ankle destroyed in that Saints playoff game (which he played through, of course).
And rings do matter to an extent but not the end all be-all. Especially if you get 2, like Flacco and Eli. They aren't top 10 QBs but that does cement them as HOFers. You can argue that someone can get lucky once but if you win two that isn't luck. Flacco is also 2-2 against Brady in the playoffs so we can thank him for Brady's ring count being at least 2 less than where it is.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
Otto Graham, another example won 7 championships in his career. 4 AAFC chamionships then later when they joined the NFL 3 NFL chamionships. He also was very immpressive statistically in touchdowns despite playing only 12-14 games per season. His statistics look like modern day numbers in TDs despite far less attempts. usually in the 20-30 range.
Packers under rodgers. 1 super bowl.
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/since-2010-aaron-rodgers-has-been-remarkably-average-in-playoffs-b99643620z1-364447971.html/
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
This reasoning makes no sense? Brees has one ring, just like Rodgers. Manning was the poster child for choking in the playoffs until he finally won one. And for his second ring he was barely a Trent Dilfer game manager who got carried by his defense. Rodgers hasn't carried his team any less than Brees or Manning.
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
Otto Graham, another example won 7 championships in his career. 4 AAFC chamionships then later when they joined the NFL 3 NFL chamionships. He also was very immpressive statistically in touchdowns despite playing only 12-14 games per season. His statistics look like modern day numbers in TDs despite far less attempts. usually in the 20-30 range.
Packers under rodgers. 1 super bowl.
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/since-2010-aaron-...
Judging based on how much someone means to their team? Wasn't that my entire argument? Single best way to judge this is to look at MVP awards, yep Rodgers has multiple and a SB MVP.
At this point, it's clear you simply don't respect Rodgers and must be bitter over his play against the Cowboys. I mean, help me remember, didn't he win that one year in the playoffs against Dallas, on one leg?
18 years longevity and high TD to INT ratio for his era allows me to put him top 10.
You do realize that Rodgers has by far the best TD:INT ratio of all time, should finish up with 16+ seasons played (after being forced to hold a clipboard for 3)
Yeah.... Against modern day NFL defenses. Way easier than what Marino had to face. Again the rules today are heavily slanted towards NFL offense and the passing game today. Back then defenses could maul you. There was no "illegal contact"
Brees, Brady, and Manning are also playing/played against modern defenses. And we're not talking trivial differences. Thats why I said it's virtually impossible to compare guys like Graham and Rodgers. Its like saying George Gervin is better than Steph Curry - nonsensical.
You can compare the two by how much they meant to their team and how their play affected their team's post season success. Example: Brady Brees and Manning played on teams with usually a mediocre defense to work with (except Brady who played with an awesome defense for his first 3 super bowls). All three players played so well that they were able to win big playoff games and big games despite the team around them not really doing anything special. Carrying the team. Rodgers has only carried his team once. The 2010 playoff run. Since then, Rodgers has failed to carry the team as consistently as I saw from the three QBs mentioned. Hence, the three QBs mentioned are in my top 10. Rodgers is not.
Otto Graham, another example won 7 championships in his career. 4 AAFC chamionships then later when they joined the NFL 3 NFL chamionships. He also was very immpressive statistically in touchdowns despite playing only 12-14 games per season. His statistics look like modern day numbers in TDs despite far less attempts. usually in the 20-30 range.
Packers under rodgers. 1 super bowl.
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/since-2010-aaron-...
Judging based on how much someone means to their team? Wasn't that my entire argument? Single best way to judge this is to look at MVP awards, yep Rodgers has multiple and a SB MVP.
At this point, it's clear you simply don't respect Rodgers and must be bitter over his play against the Cowboys. I mean, help me remember, didn't he win that one year in the playoffs against Dallas, on one leg?
Wrong. MVPs don't mean much at all. Those are regular season awards. He only plays well against Dallas in the playoffs. Oh and we were jobbed in that game. Dez caught it. Romo played just as well.
I never said I don't respect Rodgers. I just said he isn't on my top 10 list and that he is overrated because of people who do.. I know the guy is a great QB.
At the point, it's clear that you are a biased Packers fan who loves to defend his QB at all costs.
Eli manning is terrible lol
He has been for quite some time. People give him a pass and allow him to keep playing because of the past Giants Superbowls.
Nate Solder got his money and decided to quit trying it appears lol. He and Malcolm Butler have been atrocious.
Suddenly Belichick isn't a bad guy anymore for sitting Butler in the SB.