Talk to anyone involved in manufacturing (especially anyone in management levels), and they will tell you that any amount of savings is considered "significant."
If you are basing the value of something on whether or not it's hackable, then I'm definitely moving on from this argument. It's like arguing with people who say it's not worth it because they could just get a Raspberry Pie. I immediately tune out when I hear that.
I don't disagree that the lack of analog is disappointing, but it only makes one PS1 game unplayable. A 99.9% compatibility rate isn't really that bad.
But honestly, at the end of the day, Sony's biggest mistake is that they aren't Nintendo. And unfortunately, for many people that's more than enough reason to pass.
Talk to anyone involved in manufacturing (especially anyone in management levels), and they will tell you that any amount of savings is considered "significant."
If you are basing the value of something on whether or not it's hackable, then I'm definitely moving on from this argument. It's like arguing with people who say it's not worth it because they could just get a Raspberry Pie. I immediately tune out when I hear that.
I don't disagree that the lack of analog is disappointing, but it only makes one PS1 game unplayable. A 99.9% compatibility rate isn't really that bad.
But honestly, at the end of the day, Sony's biggest mistake is that they aren't Nintendo. And unfortunately, for many people that's more than enough reason to pass.
I'm not basing the TOTAL value on hackability -- but it is completely silly to disregard that as a component of the value to a knowledgable buyer.
Without that, it wouldn't have been worth $80 to me -- not sure what exactly it would be worth to me at that point, but definitely $60 or less.
That certainly doesn't put me in the "just get a RPi" camp, because I know full well that to do a decent RPi with decent controllers would blow through that number.
In terms of "significant" -- you threw the term out there and I'd like you to actually quantify it.
I don't know what volume they ended up doing on these systems, so it's tough to guess at how much per-unit savings could add up.
But per unit, what do you consider a "significant" difference in the cost on these items?
(especially when Nintendo deems fit to continue selling those controllers for $10 each, shipped, if you get them as an add-on to the console itself)
And while I wouldn't dispute that in total production volume, the price difference of the extra box and the packing line necessary to put product in the box, could add up to some real money -- clearly they are still making a profit selling them individually.
A penny per unit is still over $50k. I know you will say that's not much for a company like Nintendo, but I've seen managers fired over less. I have to explain fraction of a penny price variances per unit on a regular basis.
A penny per unit is still over $50k. I know you will say that's not much for a company like Nintendo, but I've seen managers fired over less. I have to explain fraction of a penny price variances per unit on a regular basis.
Well, the units-sold estimate would put the number a bit lower than that ($36k per penny, as of the end of June, on 3.6 million units).
You've actually seen managers fired over less than $50k, with that $50k really being $25k per year and spread out over 5 million units?
What unit-level of price manufacturing are we talking about, that is that cut-throat?
(and yeah, I was going to say that is "budget dust" for Nintendo, to use the term of my industry)
The NES was worth it to me at $60. The SNES was worth it to me at $80. And the PS1 is worth it to me at $100. I think all 3 have been reasonable, hackable or not as that is irrelevant to me.
I'm not too concerned with what other people think it's worth. I just decided for myself and made the decision there. And I don't think I'm just some dumb sheep fanboy getting screwed over by these companies. I know exactly what I'm buying and I have no problems with that.
5.28 million (as of 3/18/18) x $0.01 = $52,800. The SNES Classic will be one year old on Saturday which means the sales numbers only account for 6 months worth of data.
And yes, I have seen a manager fired because he could not control his production costs within one penny/unit to target.
And I promise that they saved more than a penny. I only used it as an example. I know you think they don't care about a penny, but I promise you they are counting them. If you ignore all of the pennies on everything, it starts adding up to millions very quickly.
5.28 million (as of 3/18/18) x $0.01 = $52,800. The SNES Classic will be one year old on Saturday which means the sales numbers only account for 6 months worth of data.
And yes, I have seen a manager fired because he could not control his production costs within one penny/unit to target.
And I promise that they saved more than a penny. I only used it as an example. I know you think they don't care about a penny, but I promise you they are counting them. If you ignore all of the pennies on everything, it starts adding up to millions very quickly.
I was looking at NES classic numbers, sorry, since we were talking about the extra boxed controller.
I think we're talking about two different things between making an item, intentionally, that costs 0.01/unit more, versus a manager who couldn't maintain cost controls on an already spec'd item.
But it's not really "ignoring pennies" to intentionally make something that costs a few cents more per unit, if you think you will make an acceptable profit margin doing it that way. (and in the case of the NES Classic, they presumably thought it was better to offer a cheaper console, and a separate controller that was also Wii-plug compatible -- ideally reaching a broader customer base than a more expensive unit that packed it all in from the get-go)
That is a fundamentally different business situation than a manager who is managing production badly so that costs end up measurably higher than estimated.
I would love to see Jade Cocoon on it, but I doubt that will make the cut. I'm very curious to see the list of the other games. I still don't believe they are all going to be pure junk. We could speculate all day about what games will be on it, but hopefully we'll find out before too long. There are lot of games I'd be very happy with, even if they aren't the big huge releases.
And I doubt they will do it, but I would love to see some imports on there - I think that would be really neat. Again, probably won't happen, but one can hope. Either way, I'm really looking forward to finding out more.
If they were smart they would sell them in tiers.. 20 games for 100$, 40 for 160$, 250$ for the deluxe version that comes with 50 + the unreleased game or some such
If they were smart they would sell them in tiers.. 20 games for 100$, 40 for 160$, 250$ for the deluxe version that comes with 50 + the unreleased game or some such
Well, I think the bulk of their cleverness was waiting for the SNES Classic to debut first and push up the perceived acceptable price for plug-and-play consoles, so they could try and better justify their $100 price point.
I would love to see Jade Cocoon on it, but I doubt that will make the cut. I'm very curious to see the list of the other games. I still don't believe they are all going to be pure junk. We could speculate all day about what games will be on it, but hopefully we'll find out before too long. There are lot of games I'd be very happy with, even if they aren't the big huge releases.
And I doubt they will do it, but I would love to see some imports on there - I think that would be really neat. Again, probably won't happen, but one can hope. Either way, I'm really looking forward to finding out more.
There will be a different ps1 classic game list for each region.
YES! To all the naysayers ha, I can't speak for everyone else, but I am personally THRILLED with the list!!
Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director's Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms
Yeah there could always be substitutions in some places, but I am VERY happy with the final list here, so I'm glad I pre-ordered and think the classic is well worth it IMO.
YES! To all the naysayers ha, I can't speak for everyone else, but I am personally THRILLED with the list!!
Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director's Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms
Yeah there could always be substitutions in some places, but I am VERY happy with the final list here, so I'm glad I pre-ordered and think the classic is well worth it IMO.
YES! To all the naysayers ha, I can't speak for everyone else, but I am personally THRILLED with the list!!
Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director's Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms
Yeah there could always be substitutions in some places, but I am VERY happy with the final list here, so I'm glad I pre-ordered and think the classic is well worth it IMO.
Eh, i think the list is okay...... Where it already only has 20 games to begin with, it has less room for duds, games that had better sequels(Twisted Metal 2 or RE 2), or the games missing completely that NEEDED to be on here.
And also completely niche games. I am genuinely in shock they included a persona game. Not saying it is a bad game, but it is so niche compared to the dozens of other more popular RPG's, like FF tactics that is beloved by so many people. Many people picking this up are likely going to have no idea what persona is and pass on it.
They definitely could have done much worse though. But still a bit underwhelming. Just my 2 cents though.
Eh, yeah even though I said Twisted Metal 1 or 2 would be the buy vs. no-buy decision for me, I'm still happy with passing on that list. Nothing on that list that screams must buy at $100. Good to see Twisted and MGS make the list, but no Crash (probably due to it being remade recently).
Eh, yeah even though I said Twisted Metal 1 or 2 would be the buy vs. no-buy decision for me, I'm still happy with passing on that list. Nothing on that list that screams must buy at $100. Good to see Twisted and MGS make the list, but no Crash (probably due to it being remade recently).
I agree. It is also missing Spyro, Crash, AND Tomb Raider. 3 of its most popular mascots and series. I understand they have the remakes but not everyone wants to play the remakes and that doesn't mean they shouldn't be on a PS classic when they are some of the biggest titles it has to offer. Just a lot of odd decisions IMO.
Wow, I think this is a fantastic list personally. Destruction Derby woohoo did not see that coming, MGS, RE1DC, Twisted Metal and even a Cool Boarders. Very happy with my pre-order now.
I must be the only one not even just borderline, but VERY happy with this list.
It's always going to vary based on people's preferences, so it's a bit of luck of the draw.
Personally, I'm excited about several of them.
Intelligent Qube is one of my favorite puzzle games and one of the first playstation games I played ever, so it has a bit of a special place for me.
Also, Persona is a game I enjoy quite a bit, and it often goes for stupid expensive prices, so I think it's great for this to allow more people to try it out.
There's not really an objectively perfect list that is going to please everyone, so of course there are people who will be disappointed with the list, that's to be expected. Heck, if I could choose them, I'd definitely make some substitutions. But, at the end of the day, I'm pretty happy I pre-ordered this and looking forward to it.
Well, so much for the people who were certain that the remaining 15 would be filler.
Now of course there are going to be some good games missing from this list because the PS1 had a boat load more than 20 good titles. But regardless, it will be very difficult to argue that this isn't a solid list of 20 games for the money.
If I'm going to be critical of anything, I would much rather have seen Twisted Metal 2 over 1.
I got $461.58 on GVN for these games Complete. Avg of $23.08 per game.
Complete is irrelevant, though.
Getting a "playable" copy is the only price-per-game metric that should matter with these
Passable list of games, though, with inclusions like Super Puzzle Fighter.
Surprised they didn't find a way to squeeze in Alundra or Xenogears, but not surprised they skipped Gran Turismo, since the first game is really rough and the second game is only marginally playable without the analog sticks.
I got $461.58 on GVN for these games Complete. Avg of $23.08 per game.
Complete is irrelevant, though.
Getting a "playable" copy is the only price-per-game metric that should matter with these
Passable list of games, though, with inclusions like Super Puzzle Fighter.
Surprised they didn't find a way to squeeze in Alundra or Xenogears, but not surprised they skipped Gran Turismo, since the first game is really rough and the second game is only marginally playable without the analog sticks.
I tried changing the drop down to loose on each one and the calculator actually went up!!!! It was madness!! I gave up and delivered this data and got shit on. haha ;-)
what? no Symphony of the night and Gran Turismo, unless this thing is hackable I won't pick one up for that price.
I guess Sympony isn't on there due to it's current release elsewhere, besides the fact that the PS1 version is a bit different anyway, so they may have seen it as a whole different game (one released is the PSP version) thus the licensing deals kinda wonky?
Dunno why there's no Gran Turismo. I would've loved that over Rainbow Six.
Comments
If you are basing the value of something on whether or not it's hackable, then I'm definitely moving on from this argument. It's like arguing with people who say it's not worth it because they could just get a Raspberry Pie. I immediately tune out when I hear that.
I don't disagree that the lack of analog is disappointing, but it only makes one PS1 game unplayable. A 99.9% compatibility rate isn't really that bad.
But honestly, at the end of the day, Sony's biggest mistake is that they aren't Nintendo. And unfortunately, for many people that's more than enough reason to pass.
Talk to anyone involved in manufacturing (especially anyone in management levels), and they will tell you that any amount of savings is considered "significant."
If you are basing the value of something on whether or not it's hackable, then I'm definitely moving on from this argument. It's like arguing with people who say it's not worth it because they could just get a Raspberry Pie. I immediately tune out when I hear that.
I don't disagree that the lack of analog is disappointing, but it only makes one PS1 game unplayable. A 99.9% compatibility rate isn't really that bad.
But honestly, at the end of the day, Sony's biggest mistake is that they aren't Nintendo. And unfortunately, for many people that's more than enough reason to pass.
I'm not basing the TOTAL value on hackability -- but it is completely silly to disregard that as a component of the value to a knowledgable buyer.
Without that, it wouldn't have been worth $80 to me -- not sure what exactly it would be worth to me at that point, but definitely $60 or less.
That certainly doesn't put me in the "just get a RPi" camp, because I know full well that to do a decent RPi with decent controllers would blow through that number.
In terms of "significant" -- you threw the term out there and I'd like you to actually quantify it.
I don't know what volume they ended up doing on these systems, so it's tough to guess at how much per-unit savings could add up.
But per unit, what do you consider a "significant" difference in the cost on these items?
(especially when Nintendo deems fit to continue selling those controllers for $10 each, shipped, if you get them as an add-on to the console itself)
And while I wouldn't dispute that in total production volume, the price difference of the extra box and the packing line necessary to put product in the box, could add up to some real money -- clearly they are still making a profit selling them individually.
A penny per unit is still over $50k. I know you will say that's not much for a company like Nintendo, but I've seen managers fired over less. I have to explain fraction of a penny price variances per unit on a regular basis.
Well, the units-sold estimate would put the number a bit lower than that ($36k per penny, as of the end of June, on 3.6 million units).
You've actually seen managers fired over less than $50k, with that $50k really being $25k per year and spread out over 5 million units?
What unit-level of price manufacturing are we talking about, that is that cut-throat?
(and yeah, I was going to say that is "budget dust" for Nintendo, to use the term of my industry)
I'm not too concerned with what other people think it's worth. I just decided for myself and made the decision there. And I don't think I'm just some dumb sheep fanboy getting screwed over by these companies. I know exactly what I'm buying and I have no problems with that.
And yes, I have seen a manager fired because he could not control his production costs within one penny/unit to target.
And I promise that they saved more than a penny. I only used it as an example. I know you think they don't care about a penny, but I promise you they are counting them. If you ignore all of the pennies on everything, it starts adding up to millions very quickly.
5.28 million (as of 3/18/18) x $0.01 = $52,800. The SNES Classic will be one year old on Saturday which means the sales numbers only account for 6 months worth of data.
And yes, I have seen a manager fired because he could not control his production costs within one penny/unit to target.
And I promise that they saved more than a penny. I only used it as an example. I know you think they don't care about a penny, but I promise you they are counting them. If you ignore all of the pennies on everything, it starts adding up to millions very quickly.
I was looking at NES classic numbers, sorry, since we were talking about the extra boxed controller.
I think we're talking about two different things between making an item, intentionally, that costs 0.01/unit more, versus a manager who couldn't maintain cost controls on an already spec'd item.
But it's not really "ignoring pennies" to intentionally make something that costs a few cents more per unit, if you think you will make an acceptable profit margin doing it that way. (and in the case of the NES Classic, they presumably thought it was better to offer a cheaper console, and a separate controller that was also Wii-plug compatible -- ideally reaching a broader customer base than a more expensive unit that packed it all in from the get-go)
That is a fundamentally different business situation than a manager who is managing production badly so that costs end up measurably higher than estimated.
And I doubt they will do it, but I would love to see some imports on there - I think that would be really neat. Again, probably won't happen, but one can hope. Either way, I'm really looking forward to finding out more.
If they were smart they would sell them in tiers.. 20 games for 100$, 40 for 160$, 250$ for the deluxe version that comes with 50 + the unreleased game or some such
Well, I think the bulk of their cleverness was waiting for the SNES Classic to debut first and push up the perceived acceptable price for plug-and-play consoles, so they could try and better justify their $100 price point.
I would love to see Jade Cocoon on it, but I doubt that will make the cut. I'm very curious to see the list of the other games. I still don't believe they are all going to be pure junk. We could speculate all day about what games will be on it, but hopefully we'll find out before too long. There are lot of games I'd be very happy with, even if they aren't the big huge releases.
And I doubt they will do it, but I would love to see some imports on there - I think that would be really neat. Again, probably won't happen, but one can hope. Either way, I'm really looking forward to finding out more.
There will be a different ps1 classic game list for each region.
Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director's Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms
Yeah there could always be substitutions in some places, but I am VERY happy with the final list here, so I'm glad I pre-ordered and think the classic is well worth it IMO.
YES! To all the naysayers ha, I can't speak for everyone else, but I am personally THRILLED with the list!!
Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director's Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms
Yeah there could always be substitutions in some places, but I am VERY happy with the final list here, so I'm glad I pre-ordered and think the classic is well worth it IMO.
Highlighted my top 5.
YES! To all the naysayers ha, I can't speak for everyone else, but I am personally THRILLED with the list!!
Battle Arena Toshinden
Cool Boarders 2
Destruction Derby
Final Fantasy VII
Grand Theft Auto
Intelligent Qube
Jumping Flash
Metal Gear Solid
Mr Driller
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Rayman
Resident Evil Director's Cut
Revelations: Persona
Ridge Racer Type 4
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Tekken 3
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Twisted Metal
Wild Arms
Yeah there could always be substitutions in some places, but I am VERY happy with the final list here, so I'm glad I pre-ordered and think the classic is well worth it IMO.
Eh, i think the list is okay...... Where it already only has 20 games to begin with, it has less room for duds, games that had better sequels(Twisted Metal 2 or RE 2), or the games missing completely that NEEDED to be on here.
And also completely niche games. I am genuinely in shock they included a persona game. Not saying it is a bad game, but it is so niche compared to the dozens of other more popular RPG's, like FF tactics that is beloved by so many people. Many people picking this up are likely going to have no idea what persona is and pass on it.
They definitely could have done much worse though. But still a bit underwhelming. Just my 2 cents though.
Eh, yeah even though I said Twisted Metal 1 or 2 would be the buy vs. no-buy decision for me, I'm still happy with passing on that list. Nothing on that list that screams must buy at $100. Good to see Twisted and MGS make the list, but no Crash (probably due to it being remade recently).
I agree. It is also missing Spyro, Crash, AND Tomb Raider. 3 of its most popular mascots and series. I understand they have the remakes but not everyone wants to play the remakes and that doesn't mean they shouldn't be on a PS classic when they are some of the biggest titles it has to offer. Just a lot of odd decisions IMO.
Jumping flash and intelligent cube are cool pics though.
It's always going to vary based on people's preferences, so it's a bit of luck of the draw.
Personally, I'm excited about several of them.
Intelligent Qube is one of my favorite puzzle games and one of the first playstation games I played ever, so it has a bit of a special place for me.
Also, Persona is a game I enjoy quite a bit, and it often goes for stupid expensive prices, so I think it's great for this to allow more people to try it out.
There's not really an objectively perfect list that is going to please everyone, so of course there are people who will be disappointed with the list, that's to be expected. Heck, if I could choose them, I'd definitely make some substitutions. But, at the end of the day, I'm pretty happy I pre-ordered this and looking forward to it.
Now of course there are going to be some good games missing from this list because the PS1 had a boat load more than 20 good titles. But regardless, it will be very difficult to argue that this isn't a solid list of 20 games for the money.
If I'm going to be critical of anything, I would much rather have seen Twisted Metal 2 over 1.
I got $461.58 on GVN for these games Complete. Avg of $23.08 per game.
Complete is irrelevant, though.
Getting a "playable" copy is the only price-per-game metric that should matter with these
Passable list of games, though, with inclusions like Super Puzzle Fighter.
Surprised they didn't find a way to squeeze in Alundra or Xenogears, but not surprised they skipped Gran Turismo, since the first game is really rough and the second game is only marginally playable without the analog sticks.
I got $461.58 on GVN for these games Complete. Avg of $23.08 per game.
Complete is irrelevant, though.
Getting a "playable" copy is the only price-per-game metric that should matter with these
Passable list of games, though, with inclusions like Super Puzzle Fighter.
Surprised they didn't find a way to squeeze in Alundra or Xenogears, but not surprised they skipped Gran Turismo, since the first game is really rough and the second game is only marginally playable without the analog sticks.
I tried changing the drop down to loose on each one and the calculator actually went up!!!! It was madness!! I gave up and delivered this data and got shit on. haha ;-)
what? no Symphony of the night and Gran Turismo, unless this thing is hackable I won't pick one up for that price.
I guess Sympony isn't on there due to it's current release elsewhere, besides the fact that the PS1 version is a bit different anyway, so they may have seen it as a whole different game (one released is the PSP version) thus the licensing deals kinda wonky?
Dunno why there's no Gran Turismo. I would've loved that over Rainbow Six.
Dunno why there's no Gran Turismo. I would've loved that over Rainbow Six.
Licensing I'm sure.
or is that just the "dual shock" version ?
deosnt RE: directors cut require the analog sticks??
or is that just the "dual shock" version ?
No. Besides, RE is a game that you really don't want dual shock for anyway.