All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
As long as congressional republicans are complacent and dont speak out against Trump’s nonsense, its their fault.
“Trump being Trump” isnt an excuse for doing long term damage to our country.
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
How about the fact that everyone was prepared to move forward, but then a couple of pundits who make their bones by agitating people proceeded to agitate the president and bruise his fragile ego, causing him to refuse to sign anything realistic and double down on a boondoggle. Which in turn caused McConnell to double down because he doesn't want the bad press of overriding the now inevitable veto.
The only thing that the Democrats are doing is standing firm on a deal that was already agreed upon. If anything, they're the only ones with any sort of honor in this.
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
How about the fact that everyone was prepared to move forward, but then a couple of pundits who make their bones by agitating people proceeded to agitate the president and bruise his fragile ego, causing him to refuse to sign anything realistic and double down on a boondoggle. Which in turn caused McConnell to double down because he doesn't want the bad press of overriding the now inevitable veto. The only thing that the Democrats are doing is standing firm on a deal that was already agreed upon. If anything, they're the only ones with any sort of honor in this.
There is no honor in politics. At least not in my lifetime. The world we live in is pretty sad these days.
Maybe it’s just me, but......
“Why can’t you bitches be normal”
-Eminem
That’s all I can say to this president and cabinet.
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
I think the Republican Senate would look much better to the country if they stepped in and got the govt. running. The problem is that the base of the Republican party sticks with Donald Trump. Since many of the R Senators are up for reelection in 2020, they can put themselves at risk if they over ride his veto. if another Republican wants to make a move on an incumbent Republicans seat in the primary they can use the vote against Trump to get leverage with the base against he incumbent and potentially steal their seat.
"If the wall can save one immigrant life, its worth it"
Also wall supporters:
"40,000 americans die every year from guns, but dont take our rights"
Still waiting for someone to come in here with a clear argument on how the wall will actually work. Or even why Trump is right with the shit down, and how it will improve our country. But all ive seen so far is "its the democrats fault", which seems to be the common theme.
"If the wall can save one immigrant life, its worth it"
Also wall supporters:
"40,000 americans die every year from guns, but dont take our rights"
Still waiting for someone to come in here with a clear argument on how the wall will actually work.
I just think people with this line of thinking don't think these thoughts completely through. Like where they say the wall is going to work for drugs and illegal immigrants, but don't account for all of the much larger entry points for both of those issues. The wall would help a tiny portion of the overall larger problem. It just isn't a good solution no matter which side you are on.
With your comparison to the 2nd ammendment. These same people also believe everyone being armed would help situations like the club shootings or school shootings. Completely not thinking of the logistics of what that means. Potentially multiple untrained people shooting in all directions trying to take out the criminal, only to be potentially killing innocent people all around them. Or that they are going to overthrow the government. People watch too many movies. Taking out a shooter is a nightmare for even a trained police force. Let alone a group of civilians with no training.
I am all for securing our country and making it safer and not giving up our rights. But the ideas have to make sense and account for everything. Also just because you don't think the wall is a good idea, doesn't automatically mean you hate America, love illegal immigrants, and think there is NO issue going on. Same as how if you are for more gun laws, doesn't mean you want to ban all guns and take them away from people. But that is sadly how every conversation goes lately with the people around me. People already have their minds made up about you if you are not 100% behind them, and there is no room for real discussion. And that goes for BOTH sides.
I am all for securing our country and making it safer and not giving up our rights. But the ideas have to make sense and account for everything. Also just because you don't think the wall is a good idea, doesn't automatically mean you hate America, love illegal immigrants, and think there is NO issue going on. Same as how if you are for more gun laws, doesn't mean you want to ban all guns and take them away from people. But that is sadly how every conversation goes lately with the people around me. People already have their minds made up about you if you are not 100% behind them, and there is no room for real discussion. And that goes for BOTH sides.
Two reasons:
1. Some people have a simplified view and every issue has to be viewed as having two polar opposites.
2. Some people anticipate the worst case scenario and fear that its a slippery slope. If you compromise on something, it starts off as a small change and incrementally small changes add up to lead to the end result that they were initially afraid of. So they just want to hold their ground firmly.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
Trump was given 1.6 billion for border security. What has come out of that?? Nothing as far as I know. Why should we spend another 5 billion when so far we have nothing from 1.6 billion!
That said, I do agree that America as a whole has lost the art of compromise.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
5 billion (half for wall, half for extra security) in exchange for the DREAM act is such an easy solution. Problem being Secretary Ann Coulter won’t accept the Dream Act as a provision for anything, so yeah.
Hell, there was a deal for 25 billion for the Dream Act last year, which Trump agreed to but then backed out of because Coulter got upset. Republicans will never have a better offer than that, turning it down was such an epic blunder.
All this "both sides" rhetoric is crap put forth by the republicans to further undermine the democrats. When is the last time democrats orchestrated a shutdown (or ran a car through a crowd of people, that was a "both sides" thing too)? Throw a temper tantrum when you don't get everything you want, blame it on others for not giving it to you, say Government Is The Problem.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
Trump was given 1.6 billion for border security. What has come out of that?? Nothing as far as I know. Why should we spend another 5 billion when so far we have nothing from 1.6 billion! That said, I do agree that America as a whole has lost the art of compromise.
Because shit is gonna start snowballing for a lot of people, including all of those federal employees, real fast. It's in everyone's best interest that this end. But the Dems know Trump and his massive ego have put his own balls in his own vice, and they're gonna ride that political gain at all costs.
Anyone here one of those affected by the paycheck last week? What happens if you miss the next one? Even some hardcore Trump supporters that I know who are working for the DoD have turned on him, BIG TIME.
This isn't about blame. This is about "both sides" (which we are and forever will be stuck with) putting aside all of the bullshit hyperpartisanship, and trying to rediscover that gigantic middle ground where most Americans truly reside, whether they know it or not.
Don't forget the 5 billion is for a peice of wall. The entire wall is estimated to cost between 60 and 70 billion dollars.
Brock most of the Democrats are in the center. There are some Dems who vote alongside the Republicans 70% of the time. If repubublicans didn't have enough votes to pass the republicam tax cuts I guarantee you enough democrats would jump in to make sure it passed. Most of both parties serve the same interests. The leadership of the democratic party are all conservative/corporate/establishment democrats.
If you look at the polling most American want progressive ideas. 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare, 80-90% of americans want money out of politics, 60% of Americans want a 70% marginal tax rate.
Republican have lost almost every popular vote except one for the last 30 years.
Brock most of the Democrats are in the center. There are some Dems who vote alongside the Republicans 70% of the time. If repubublicans didn't have enough votes to pass the republicam tax cuts I guarantee you enough democrats would jump in to make sure it passed. Most of both parties serve the same interests. The leadership of the democratic party are all conservative/corporate/establishment democrats. If you look at the polling most American want progressive ideas. 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare, 80-90% of americans want money out of politics, 60% of Americans want a 70% marginal tax rate. Republican have lost almost every popular vote except one for the last 30 years.
Again, both sides are permanently convinced that they are right and the other is wrong. Every conservative I know says they moderate and that libs are the ones that became extremist
When in reality most people are in the center, but the tail wags the dog anymore.
Of course I call myself a left-leaning moderate, so perhaps everyone feels that way about themselves
Don't forget the 5 billion is for a peice of wall. The entire wall is estimated to cost between 60 and 70 billion dollars.
Brock most of the Democrats are in the center. There are some Dems who vote alongside the Republicans 70% of the time. If repubublicans didn't have enough votes to pass the republicam tax cuts I guarantee you enough democrats would jump in to make sure it passed. Most of both parties serve the same interests. The leadership of the democratic party are all conservative/corporate/establishment democrats.
If you look at the polling most American want progressive ideas. 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare, 80-90% of americans want money out of politics, 60% of Americans want a 70% marginal tax rate.
Republican have lost almost every popular vote except one for the last 30 years.
That's because the polls (and Hillary) ignored the Great Lakes region where a thin majority (literally 100,000 votes, if that) gave Trump the electoral victory. It was a freak occurrence, not some major groundswelling of conservative power.
I don't think they did. As far as I know the interpretation of the polls by mainstream media was what was incorrect about the 2016 election. I beleive many were reporting within the margin of error in Hillary's favor rather han undecided, but I could be mistaken. The news people I listen to said that donald trump could win the election the entire time
And it wasn't a freak occurence and the Russians didn't steal the election. People need to get this straight. The democrats lost because the f@#$%# over Bernie Sanders in the primary. Bernie was more popular with democrats and republicans and he won the primary in most states while being attacked by the democratic party. The "super delegates" did not care about which nominee won the primary and elected Hillary Clinton to represent the Democratic Party in the general election although she was a deeply flawed candidate.
If you look at the 2020 elections that is just getting started, the democrats are already smearing bernie sanders on MSNBC and in the newspapers because they are afraid that he could win.
This isn't about blame. This is about "both sides" (which we are and forever will be stuck with) putting aside all of the bullshit hyperpartisanship, and trying to rediscover that gigantic middle ground where most Americans truly reside, whether they know it or not.
"The middle" keeps shifting right, because neo-liberals and third-way think tanks start off every negotiation by giving major concessions to the right. All they know how to do is compromise. When Sanders wanted to raise the minimum wage to $15, Clinton said how about $12. Centrists political views are not even that different from the conservatives, its just that they care more about decorum and norms than policy. The only way to actually shift things back the other direction is to go radically left.
A pendulum swing? Because they swing back. That's a part of the problem imo.
You are presuming that the pivot point stays fixed in the middle.
I mean I guess that's a good point when looking at the long term. Is today's middle the equivalent of the 1860's radical left? Probably. But I selfishly don't care about 2150 being a better time and place. I want 2025 to be a better time and place.
There's probably some arguments to be made that the Overton Window shifted heavily enough during, and in the shadow of, the Reagan years to justify some sort of minor political realignment, but honestly, I think the bigger issues are the systemic gamesmanship in the legislature and the confirmation bias revolution of cable news and social media. Insular 25-30% bubbles with massive turnout in carefully-divested districts are sufficient carve-outs. Fixing the long-term damage to the republic begins with proper reform of gerrymandering, procedural rules in the House and Senate, more working days for those bodies, tighter reform of campaign finance, more accountability for slush money and political action committees, and the like.
A pendulum swing? Because they swing back. That's a part of the problem imo.
You are presuming that the pivot point stays fixed in the middle.
I mean I guess that's a good point when looking at the long term. Is today's middle the equivalent of the 1860's radical left? Probably. But I selfishly don't care about 2150 being a better time and place. I want 2025 to be a better time and place.
"The crackpot outliers of two decades ago have become the vital center today." Mike Lofgren, ex-Republican staffer for 28 years, regarding the GOP in 2011.
I would say the chart would bear a similar trajectory if shifted back an additional two decades.
That's because the polls (and Hillary) ignored the Great Lakes region where a thin majority (literally 100,000 votes, if that) gave Trump the electoral victory. It was a freak occurrence, not some major groundswelling of conservative power.
Her own husband tried to warn her about overlooking those rural/blue collar sorts of folks in PA/MI/WI and such...after all getting those "Reagan Democrats" back into the fold were essential for Bill's 1992 and to a lesser extent 1996 victories.
Let me start off by saying i am avoiding the news and political talk because its just so negative and nasty right now, not my cup of tea, next election I will vote for anyone but Trump. Anyways, My stupid friend who calls me all the time after reading buzz feed called me today as i was leaving my house. Had no clue it was insanely icy out and just got destroyed falling off my front stairs as i was trying to pickup the phone. I'm all sorts of banged up now. It was a hell of a sight too because i'm a bigger dude and i never fall down because of a combination of good balance, and decent judgement, with that being said, my first priority is to protect my terrible phone over my body.. After falling i didnt even bother to get up for about ten seconds just to take in the amount of fail i just endured. Blood spilling out and all.
Now what was so important???
He called because Donald Trump called someone who is going to run for president, "Lil castro". I have no idea who that even is.
For me, i think the blame goes;
15% me 35% my friend (Screw you Chad) 40% Trump 5% whoever that Castro guy is And of course, somehow, 5% Hilary Clinton.
For me, i think the blame goes; 15% me 35% my friend (Screw you Chad) 40% Trump 5% whoever that Castro guy is And of course, somehow, 5% Hilary Clinton.
Let me start off by saying i am avoiding the news and political talk because its just so negative and nasty right now, not my cup of tea, next election I will vote for anyone but Trump. Anyways, My stupid friend who calls me all the time after reading buzz feed called me today as i was leaving my house. Had no clue it was insanely icy out and just got destroyed falling off my front stairs as i was trying to pickup the phone. I'm all sorts of banged up now. It was a hell of a sight too because i'm a bigger dude and i never fall down because of a combination of good balance, and decent judgement, with that being said, my first priority is to protect my terrible phone over my body.. After falling i didnt even bother to get up for about ten seconds just to take in the amount of fail i just endured. Blood spilling out and all.
Now what was so important???
He called because Donald Trump called someone who is going to run for president, "Lil castro". I have no idea who that even is.
For me, i think the blame goes;
15% me 35% my friend (Screw you Chad) 40% Trump 5% whoever that Castro guy is And of course, somehow, 5% Hilary Clinton.
I don't think they did. As far as I know the interpretation of the polls by mainstream media was what was incorrect about the 2016 election. I beleive many were reporting within the margin of error in Hillary's favor rather han undecided, but I could be mistaken. The news people I listen to said that donald trump could win the election the entire time And it wasn't a freak occurence and the Russians didn't steal the election. People need to get this straight. The democrats lost because the f@#$%# over Bernie Sanders in the primary. Bernie was more popular with democrats and republicans and he won the primary in most states while being attacked by the democratic party. The "super delegates" did not care about which nominee won the primary and elected Hillary Clinton to represent the Democratic Party in the general election although she was a deeply flawed candidate. If you look at the 2020 elections that is just getting started, the democrats are already smearing bernie sanders on MSNBC and in the newspapers because they are afraid that he could win.
While there is no doubt “super delegates” are ridiculous and anti-democratic, the fact remains that Hillary got more total votes than Bernie in the primaries by a solid margin, a fact he never acknowledges. I am very glad his campaign has greatly reduced superdelegate usage in future elections, but there is no metric from 2016 that supports his having been the nominee. Hillary won any way you slice it.
While there is no doubt "super delegates" are ridiculous and anti-democratic, the fact remains that Hillary got more total votes than Bernie in the primaries by a solid margin, a fact he never acknowledges. I am very glad his campaign has greatly reduced superdelegate usage in future elections, but there is no metric from 2016 that supports his having been the nominee. Hillary won any way you slice it.
Comments
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
As long as congressional republicans are complacent and dont speak out against Trump’s nonsense, its their fault.
“Trump being Trump” isnt an excuse for doing long term damage to our country.
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
How about the fact that everyone was prepared to move forward, but then a couple of pundits who make their bones by agitating people proceeded to agitate the president and bruise his fragile ego, causing him to refuse to sign anything realistic and double down on a boondoggle. Which in turn caused McConnell to double down because he doesn't want the bad press of overriding the now inevitable veto.
The only thing that the Democrats are doing is standing firm on a deal that was already agreed upon. If anything, they're the only ones with any sort of honor in this.
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
How about the fact that everyone was prepared to move forward, but then a couple of pundits who make their bones by agitating people proceeded to agitate the president and bruise his fragile ego, causing him to refuse to sign anything realistic and double down on a boondoggle. Which in turn caused McConnell to double down because he doesn't want the bad press of overriding the now inevitable veto. The only thing that the Democrats are doing is standing firm on a deal that was already agreed upon. If anything, they're the only ones with any sort of honor in this.
There is no honor in politics. At least not in my lifetime. The world we live in is pretty sad these days.
Maybe it’s just me, but......
“Why can’t you bitches be normal”
-Eminem
That’s all I can say to this president and cabinet.
All of them are opportunists for the shut down including the media. The fact anyone is taking one of their sides over the other shows some pretty lame bias. There's blame enough to go around on them all.
You have a situation where the senate majority leader is refusing to even vote on bills passed by the house, when those bills are essentially the same as earlier bills passed by that same senate with what would have been a veto-proof majority.
It is hard to spin that as the democrats fault.
In that narrow context, no, you can't spin it as their fault. Going with broad strokes though, both sides have been complicit in telling the other they can't have what they want. Trump takes a mental vacation, Dems go on vacation or start playing attention games to the camera among other things. McConnell sucks, but I can't really blame the guy he's stuck between dealing with the house and Trump. Sure he could vote on the stuff, then Trump will just destroy it anyway which of course the media and the left will peg the entire party for it instead of just Trump being Trump. It's a no win situation and he's decided instead of playing a no win game, he'll just play dead I guess which isn't much better anyway. I'm thinking he doesn't want the party to look divided, or perhaps fears the executive going into true unhinged mode that'll really foul up the elections in another 2 years. Trump if anything is vindictive.
I think the Republican Senate would look much better to the country if they stepped in and got the govt. running. The problem is that the base of the Republican party sticks with Donald Trump. Since many of the R Senators are up for reelection in 2020, they can put themselves at risk if they over ride his veto. if another Republican wants to make a move on an incumbent Republicans seat in the primary they can use the vote against Trump to get leverage with the base against he incumbent and potentially steal their seat.
"If the wall can save one immigrant life, its worth it"
Also wall supporters:
"40,000 americans die every year from guns, but dont take our rights"
Still waiting for someone to come in here with a clear argument on how the wall will actually work. Or even why Trump is right with the shit down, and how it will improve our country. But all ive seen so far is "its the democrats fault", which seems to be the common theme.
Wall supporters:
"If the wall can save one immigrant life, its worth it"
Also wall supporters:
"40,000 americans die every year from guns, but dont take our rights"
Still waiting for someone to come in here with a clear argument on how the wall will actually work.
I just think people with this line of thinking don't think these thoughts completely through. Like where they say the wall is going to work for drugs and illegal immigrants, but don't account for all of the much larger entry points for both of those issues. The wall would help a tiny portion of the overall larger problem. It just isn't a good solution no matter which side you are on.
With your comparison to the 2nd ammendment. These same people also believe everyone being armed would help situations like the club shootings or school shootings. Completely not thinking of the logistics of what that means. Potentially multiple untrained people shooting in all directions trying to take out the criminal, only to be potentially killing innocent people all around them. Or that they are going to overthrow the government. People watch too many movies. Taking out a shooter is a nightmare for even a trained police force. Let alone a group of civilians with no training.
I am all for securing our country and making it safer and not giving up our rights. But the ideas have to make sense and account for everything. Also just because you don't think the wall is a good idea, doesn't automatically mean you hate America, love illegal immigrants, and think there is NO issue going on. Same as how if you are for more gun laws, doesn't mean you want to ban all guns and take them away from people. But that is sadly how every conversation goes lately with the people around me. People already have their minds made up about you if you are not 100% behind them, and there is no room for real discussion. And that goes for BOTH sides.
I am all for securing our country and making it safer and not giving up our rights. But the ideas have to make sense and account for everything. Also just because you don't think the wall is a good idea, doesn't automatically mean you hate America, love illegal immigrants, and think there is NO issue going on. Same as how if you are for more gun laws, doesn't mean you want to ban all guns and take them away from people. But that is sadly how every conversation goes lately with the people around me. People already have their minds made up about you if you are not 100% behind them, and there is no room for real discussion. And that goes for BOTH sides.
Two reasons:
1. Some people have a simplified view and every issue has to be viewed as having two polar opposites.
2. Some people anticipate the worst case scenario and fear that its a slippery slope. If you compromise on something, it starts off as a small change and incrementally small changes add up to lead to the end result that they were initially afraid of. So they just want to hold their ground firmly.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
Trump was given 1.6 billion for border security. What has come out of that?? Nothing as far as I know. Why should we spend another 5 billion when so far we have nothing from 1.6 billion!
That said, I do agree that America as a whole has lost the art of compromise.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
5 billion (half for wall, half for extra security) in exchange for the DREAM act is such an easy solution. Problem being Secretary Ann Coulter won’t accept the Dream Act as a provision for anything, so yeah.
Hell, there was a deal for 25 billion for the Dream Act last year, which Trump agreed to but then backed out of because Coulter got upset. Republicans will never have a better offer than that, turning it down was such an epic blunder.
I'd say both sides need to compromise and figure out a middle ground, like, I dunno, 3 billion to fund something for the border. But compromise in American politics died long ago.
Trump was given 1.6 billion for border security. What has come out of that?? Nothing as far as I know. Why should we spend another 5 billion when so far we have nothing from 1.6 billion! That said, I do agree that America as a whole has lost the art of compromise.
Because shit is gonna start snowballing for a lot of people, including all of those federal employees, real fast. It's in everyone's best interest that this end. But the Dems know Trump and his massive ego have put his own balls in his own vice, and they're gonna ride that political gain at all costs.
Anyone here one of those affected by the paycheck last week? What happens if you miss the next one? Even some hardcore Trump supporters that I know who are working for the DoD have turned on him, BIG TIME.
This isn't about blame. This is about "both sides" (which we are and forever will be stuck with) putting aside all of the bullshit hyperpartisanship, and trying to rediscover that gigantic middle ground where most Americans truly reside, whether they know it or not.
Brock most of the Democrats are in the center. There are some Dems who vote alongside the Republicans 70% of the time. If repubublicans didn't have enough votes to pass the republicam tax cuts I guarantee you enough democrats would jump in to make sure it passed. Most of both parties serve the same interests. The leadership of the democratic party are all conservative/corporate/establishment democrats.
If you look at the polling most American want progressive ideas. 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare, 80-90% of americans want money out of politics, 60% of Americans want a 70% marginal tax rate.
Republican have lost almost every popular vote except one for the last 30 years.
Brock most of the Democrats are in the center. There are some Dems who vote alongside the Republicans 70% of the time. If repubublicans didn't have enough votes to pass the republicam tax cuts I guarantee you enough democrats would jump in to make sure it passed. Most of both parties serve the same interests. The leadership of the democratic party are all conservative/corporate/establishment democrats. If you look at the polling most American want progressive ideas. 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare, 80-90% of americans want money out of politics, 60% of Americans want a 70% marginal tax rate. Republican have lost almost every popular vote except one for the last 30 years.
Again, both sides are permanently convinced that they are right and the other is wrong. Every conservative I know says they moderate and that libs are the ones that became extremist
When in reality most people are in the center, but the tail wags the dog anymore.
Of course I call myself a left-leaning moderate, so perhaps everyone feels that way about themselves
Don't forget the 5 billion is for a peice of wall. The entire wall is estimated to cost between 60 and 70 billion dollars.
Brock most of the Democrats are in the center. There are some Dems who vote alongside the Republicans 70% of the time. If repubublicans didn't have enough votes to pass the republicam tax cuts I guarantee you enough democrats would jump in to make sure it passed. Most of both parties serve the same interests. The leadership of the democratic party are all conservative/corporate/establishment democrats.
If you look at the polling most American want progressive ideas. 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare, 80-90% of americans want money out of politics, 60% of Americans want a 70% marginal tax rate.
Republican have lost almost every popular vote except one for the last 30 years.
Polls also told us Hillary was going to win.
Polls also told us Hillary was going to win.
That's because the polls (and Hillary) ignored the Great Lakes region where a thin majority (literally 100,000 votes, if that) gave Trump the electoral victory. It was a freak occurrence, not some major groundswelling of conservative power.
And it wasn't a freak occurence and the Russians didn't steal the election. People need to get this straight. The democrats lost because the f@#$%# over Bernie Sanders in the primary. Bernie was more popular with democrats and republicans and he won the primary in most states while being attacked by the democratic party. The "super delegates" did not care about which nominee won the primary and elected Hillary Clinton to represent the Democratic Party in the general election although she was a deeply flawed candidate.
If you look at the 2020 elections that is just getting started, the democrats are already smearing bernie sanders on MSNBC and in the newspapers because they are afraid that he could win.
This isn't about blame. This is about "both sides" (which we are and forever will be stuck with) putting aside all of the bullshit hyperpartisanship, and trying to rediscover that gigantic middle ground where most Americans truly reside, whether they know it or not.
"The middle" keeps shifting right, because neo-liberals and third-way think tanks start off every negotiation by giving major concessions to the right. All they know how to do is compromise. When Sanders wanted to raise the minimum wage to $15, Clinton said how about $12. Centrists political views are not even that different from the conservatives, its just that they care more about decorum and norms than policy. The only way to actually shift things back the other direction is to go radically left.
A pendulum swing? Because they swing back. That's a part of the problem imo.
You are presuming that the pivot point stays fixed in the middle.
A pendulum swing? Because they swing back. That's a part of the problem imo.
You are presuming that the pivot point stays fixed in the middle.
I mean I guess that's a good point when looking at the long term. Is today's middle the equivalent of the 1860's radical left? Probably. But I selfishly don't care about 2150 being a better time and place. I want 2025 to be a better time and place.
A pendulum swing? Because they swing back. That's a part of the problem imo.
You are presuming that the pivot point stays fixed in the middle.
I mean I guess that's a good point when looking at the long term. Is today's middle the equivalent of the 1860's radical left? Probably. But I selfishly don't care about 2150 being a better time and place. I want 2025 to be a better time and place.
"The crackpot outliers of two decades ago have become the vital center today." Mike Lofgren, ex-Republican staffer for 28 years, regarding the GOP in 2011.
I would say the chart would bear a similar trajectory if shifted back an additional two decades.
Polls also told us Hillary was going to win.
That's because the polls (and Hillary) ignored the Great Lakes region where a thin majority (literally 100,000 votes, if that) gave Trump the electoral victory. It was a freak occurrence, not some major groundswelling of conservative power.
Her own husband tried to warn her about overlooking those rural/blue collar sorts of folks in PA/MI/WI and such...after all getting those "Reagan Democrats" back into the fold were essential for Bill's 1992 and to a lesser extent 1996 victories.
Now what was so important???
He called because Donald Trump called someone who is going to run for president, "Lil castro". I have no idea who that even is.
For me, i think the blame goes;
15% me
35% my friend (Screw you Chad)
40% Trump
5% whoever that Castro guy is
And of course, somehow, 5% Hilary Clinton.
Originally posted by: Fryer64
For me, i think the blame goes; 15% me 35% my friend (Screw you Chad) 40% Trump 5% whoever that Castro guy is And of course, somehow, 5% Hilary Clinton.
hahahahahha
Well played.
Let me start off by saying i am avoiding the news and political talk because its just so negative and nasty right now, not my cup of tea, next election I will vote for anyone but Trump. Anyways, My stupid friend who calls me all the time after reading buzz feed called me today as i was leaving my house. Had no clue it was insanely icy out and just got destroyed falling off my front stairs as i was trying to pickup the phone. I'm all sorts of banged up now. It was a hell of a sight too because i'm a bigger dude and i never fall down because of a combination of good balance, and decent judgement, with that being said, my first priority is to protect my terrible phone over my body.. After falling i didnt even bother to get up for about ten seconds just to take in the amount of fail i just endured. Blood spilling out and all.
Now what was so important???
He called because Donald Trump called someone who is going to run for president, "Lil castro". I have no idea who that even is.
For me, i think the blame goes;
15% me
35% my friend (Screw you Chad)
40% Trump
5% whoever that Castro guy is
And of course, somehow, 5% Hilary Clinton.
Hey, phones are dangerous hope you're okay!
I don't think they did. As far as I know the interpretation of the polls by mainstream media was what was incorrect about the 2016 election. I beleive many were reporting within the margin of error in Hillary's favor rather han undecided, but I could be mistaken. The news people I listen to said that donald trump could win the election the entire time And it wasn't a freak occurence and the Russians didn't steal the election. People need to get this straight. The democrats lost because the f@#$%# over Bernie Sanders in the primary. Bernie was more popular with democrats and republicans and he won the primary in most states while being attacked by the democratic party. The "super delegates" did not care about which nominee won the primary and elected Hillary Clinton to represent the Democratic Party in the general election although she was a deeply flawed candidate. If you look at the 2020 elections that is just getting started, the democrats are already smearing bernie sanders on MSNBC and in the newspapers because they are afraid that he could win.
While there is no doubt “super delegates” are ridiculous and anti-democratic, the fact remains that Hillary got more total votes than Bernie in the primaries by a solid margin, a fact he never acknowledges. I am very glad his campaign has greatly reduced superdelegate usage in future elections, but there is no metric from 2016 that supports his having been the nominee. Hillary won any way you slice it.
While there is no doubt "super delegates" are ridiculous and anti-democratic, the fact remains that Hillary got more total votes than Bernie in the primaries by a solid margin, a fact he never acknowledges. I am very glad his campaign has greatly reduced superdelegate usage in future elections, but there is no metric from 2016 that supports his having been the nominee. Hillary won any way you slice it.