Questions about cart games with batteries and save states

rlh

This is more a question of curiousity.  As we're all aware, old cartridge games with save functionality had a RAM on the disk and a small battery that used just enough electricity to keep the RAM memory alive.  However, fast forward today and we now have non-volatile FRAM which doesn't need power to story memory.



I'm curious, has anyone attempted to either make replacement flash-memory chips for NES/SNES/other cartridges that have save states so that instead of replacing the battery, the RAM can be replaced with something that isn't volatile?



The potential limitations that I can think of could include that to many types of RAM chips were used that there is no one-size-fits-all for most carts of any given system.  For instance, if the NES system made use of 3-5 RAM chips for save states, then it would be tough to replace all of these with a custom design because fabricating limited quantities of these chips wouldn't make it cost effective.



That said, FRAM is a pretty basic and I could also see it being that maybe cheap, stock components might be available.  Still, finding correct chips that match voltages and clock-speeds might be the sticking point.



Anyway, my main reason for bringing this up for discussion is because replacing batteries certainly does work, it's cheap and it's reasonably cost effective.  However, a better, longer-term solution if it's plausible would be to update the RAM components with FRAM chips, eliminating the need for the RAM + battery setup.



So, has anyone looked into doing this?   Am I missing a piece of the puzzle that makes this 100% unfeasible?  Considering that batteries have a shelf life and with time, they will likely all leak and corrode, replacing them is kind of a necessity, it's just a matter of time.  So, if you're going to already have to rip a component out... why not replace two and have a solution that could last a much longer time?  

themisfit138

I have two N64 Memory Paks that I upgraded to FRAM. They only have one RAM chip so it was not all that bad. NES or SNES would probally be a bit of an undertaking.

There was only one weird issue I had with the upgrade. One of the controller paks read as a rumble pak initially, and it took a few different games to finally read it as a memory pak. WWF Attitude was the one to recognize it. Both cards are working fine now.



Here is a link to the site I used for information and instructions. 

http://www.dbwbp.com/index.php/10-electronic-projects/20-nintendo-64-memory-card-fram-non-volatile-memory-mod

DefaultGen

It seems like a little overkill. I would always choose a dollar battery and 2 minute job over replacing a RAM chip. I guess I just don't need my saved games lasting decades, or at least decades longer than they've already lasted. I also think of batteries as "disposable" parts of a game and the chips on the PCB as more sacred, but I'd guess doing this would probably increase the value of a game to the vast majority of people rather than decrease it to OCD collectors.



Doing this is somewhat common in pinball now, so I bet it's possible.

GCrites80s

Fun fact: I have never had an NES save battery test under 3.0V in 9 years of owning stores.

VmprHntrD

Another fun fact, I have yet to have a game I bought or was gifted from retail from the 80s and 90s to come back with a dead battery, even the oldest (Zelda.) Flea market finds and all that I've had a very few with dead ones, but in every case but one there was some obvious damage that rusted out the battery and caused leakage, just one time was a clean mystery.





I think this is related, and no idea if it is google searchable, but I have read up cases of people doing a FRAM install into Pokemon games on the original Gameboy. I think it was yellow but it could have been another.

rlh

Originally posted by: VmprHntrD



Another fun fact, I have yet to have a game I bought or was gifted from retail from the 80s and 90s to come back with a dead battery, even the oldest (Zelda.) Flea market finds and all that I've had a very few with dead ones, but in every case but one there was some obvious damage that rusted out the battery and caused leakage, just one time was a clean mystery.





I think this is related, and no idea if it is google searchable, but I have read up cases of people doing a FRAM install into Pokemon games on the original Gameboy. I think it was yellow but it could have been another.

I’ve definitely found dead batteries but I primarily collect GB games. I also have no clue about the chemical science behind batteries but what I usually find is on the first and second uses they may work, however, they quickly die after that.  It’s as if they can hold a minimal chaege for decades but because they are so old, when you start to use them it expedites the  degradation process much like Mel Gibson in Forever Young.



 

GCrites80s

^Yes, that is our experience with Pokemon Red, Blue, Yellow. Gold/Silver/Crystal are usually DOA due to the clock unless someone has replaced the battery in the past 5 years.

jfreakofkorn

i have been wondering about this also ... good comments along with knowledge so far

keep them comments coming ... want to know more, if possible