Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
You couldn't pay me to do it. I'll tell you that much,
Try teaching algebra with your hands tied behind your back, all the while the kids dont give a shit, and you are judged on them passing an end of course state algebra test. Oh and half your classes are kids who failed 8th grade state test. Kids are using their fingers and calculators to add single digit amounts. and have to use a calculator for 3rd grade multiplication. Its that bad.
Screw the public education system in America. It's atrocious and the teachers that care bare the burden.
Try social work, the medical field, construction, the military, etc. Most people are overworked, under appreciated, and underpaid. It's all relative. Teachers definitely don't have it easy, but I'd say most of us don't.
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
Like most jobs if they want you gone, theyll find a way. Most teachers have morning duty. Mine starts at 7:30 3 days a week one semester and 2 days a week the other. Its a waste of time. Its too much, and its nonsense when you have so much stuff to get done and you gotta stand there and watch a few kids talk outside and others walking by to where they need to go. Anyway, say you get out there at 7:32 a handfull of days. Oh my god you're late you need an intervention in time management lol. Theyll put you on an improvement plan, then look for any reason to let you go. Its actually not that hard for them to get rid of you. The first few years they can do what they want and just not renew you, but after that there are plenty of things they can do to squeeze you out. Admin will nitpick and helicopter the hell out of you
Well shit..... I work at a liquor store and am overpaid. I mean, I don't make as much as teachers do, but I make way too much money for what I'm required to do. I own a condo, have some nice stuff and a great girlfriend.
Life wasn't always so great though. I used to have a shitty, high paying job that I was severely underpaid for. I had to travel a lot and deal with shitty people. It drained my soul.
One day I woke up and realized that I'd be a much happier with less money and a shittier job.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna be a teacher in the next year. At least that's my goal.
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
Like most jobs if they want you gone, theyll find a way. Most teachers have morning duty. Mine starts at 7:30 3 days a week one semester and 2 days a week the other. Its a waste of time. Its too much, and its nonsense when you have so much stuff to get done and you gotta stand there and watch a few kids talk outside and others walking by to where they need to go. Anyway, say you get out there at 7:32 a handfull of days. Oh my god you're late you need an intervention in time management lol. Theyll put you on an improvement plan, then look for any reason to let you go. Its actually not that hard for them to get rid of you. The first few years they can do what they want and just not renew you, but after that there are plenty of things they can do to squeeze you out. Admin will nitpick and helicopter the hell out of you
If you aren’t 15 minutes early, you are 15 minutes late.
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
Like most jobs if they want you gone, theyll find a way. Most teachers have morning duty. Mine starts at 7:30 3 days a week one semester and 2 days a week the other. Its a waste of time. Its too much, and its nonsense when you have so much stuff to get done and you gotta stand there and watch a few kids talk outside and others walking by to where they need to go. Anyway, say you get out there at 7:32 a handfull of days. Oh my god you're late you need an intervention in time management lol. Theyll put you on an improvement plan, then look for any reason to let you go. Its actually not that hard for them to get rid of you. The first few years they can do what they want and just not renew you, but after that there are plenty of things they can do to squeeze you out. Admin will nitpick and helicopter the hell out of you
If you aren’t 15 minutes early, you are 15 minutes late.
I had a few instances this year where I was getting ready for the day and got there early. MAking some copies/printing off some stuff for that day, or typing up my examples I was going to do on the smart board. You know, the actual important things. Went a minute or two past 7:30 not seeing the time and was out there before 7:35 and Id get an email about my late to duty notice. Pissed me the hell off. Send a sorry for that message trying to explain why I was a couple minutes late and that I understood I needed to be out there at 7:30 and not 7:33. Basically the response was I needed to stay later to finish so I dont have to do anything in the morning. I was there till 6-7 every night that whole semester. I had 3 different class preps every day. Shit like that rubs you the wrong way. I learned this year just to accept that administration is out for themselves and dont rely on them to have your back for shit. A few times this year I was thrown under the bus. A couple times in parent meetings in front of me. Made me pretty upset.
I actually received my letter of eligibility this year to teach high school chemistry. Since my application, however, I have decided not to go forward with it. The feedback was overwhelmingly negative from basically everyone I spoke to about teaching. Pretty sad That said, if the starting pay was significantly higher I might have given it a shot.
Zero consideration for the student loans needed to get proper qualifications as well as CE. That cannibalizes a good portion of the salary for a number of years
This is pretty laughable. I worked in a school system for 8 years, and have a secondary degree in education.
Teachers work far more hours than just in the classroom. Aside from things already mentioned, there are other factors. Don't want to coach because you don't give a shit about sports, that's too bad, we need a boys swimming coach, enjoy 2 matches a week and 2 hours of practice every day. Want to go home to your wife and unwind? Nah, we've got a fundraiser and you've been elected to the committee. Not to mention constantly evolving (and ridiculous) standards that each lesson has to meet, and which are graded subjectively by whatever administrator. You've got to have your lessons planned for the week, before the week, and turned in and approved.
Planning period to grade papers? Forget about it, you'll have a "staff, or block" meeting one day a week. Another two you'll be "volunteering" to help do one thing or another. Oh, and of course, little Timmy was sick and missed the test. He's not able to stay after because he plays a school sport, you get to proctor the test during your "planning period."
I think they're underpaid, at least in my area where the starting salary is around $27k.
My base salary is $90k and I'm not at the top of my pay scale. I've been teaching for 13 years and have a Master's in Education.
I also teach in one of the top districts in MA, and our education system is head and shoulders above most of the country, so my pay reflects that.
I work far more than 40 hours a week at school, own my own business, and have 3 multi family homes in the greater Boston area (one in Boston proper) to supplement my pay.
Many teachers are grossly underpaid, but the "over worked" ones just don't have the grit to cut it in teaching (and likely other lines of work).
Edit: that’s not a dig on any teachers or past teachers in this thread, it’s for folks like that martyr who wrote the article about teaching a few years and how bad he had it. Toughen up, the world owes you nothing.
Teachers in my area make more than teachers in many other states, but I still view it as partially a volunteer/service gig. I don't plan to do it forever, and I wouldn't still be doing it if I didn't love the people I work with so much (students, admin, and fellow staff).
For 30-40k and annoying coworkers, I definitely wouldn't do it.
Comments
Originally posted by: Mega Tank
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
You couldn't pay me to do it. I'll tell you that much,
Try teaching algebra with your hands tied behind your back, all the while the kids dont give a shit, and you are judged on them passing an end of course state algebra test. Oh and half your classes are kids who failed 8th grade state test. Kids are using their fingers and calculators to add single digit amounts. and have to use a calculator for 3rd grade multiplication. Its that bad.
Screw the public education system in America. It's atrocious and the teachers that care bare the burden.
https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/why-i-quit-teaching-91bdcae63273
ps Not that I really followed the Joel thread... but I'm getting similar amusing vibes! Might just be me though
A weak/ineffective education is the root of a lot of problems in so many peoples lives.
That's all one longggggggg discussion though.
Teacher explains why teaching is so difficult and how little they make
https://medium.com/age-of-awarene...
ps Not that I really followed the Joel thread... but I'm getting similar amusing vibes! Might just be me though
Jesus, that dude sounds like an incredible pussy. Guy taught for four years and made it sound like a prison sentence.
My best friend is a concrete laborer. Now THAT's a job where you're both underpaid and overworked.
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
Like most jobs if they want you gone, theyll find a way. Most teachers have morning duty. Mine starts at 7:30 3 days a week one semester and 2 days a week the other. Its a waste of time. Its too much, and its nonsense when you have so much stuff to get done and you gotta stand there and watch a few kids talk outside and others walking by to where they need to go. Anyway, say you get out there at 7:32 a handfull of days. Oh my god you're late you need an intervention in time management lol. Theyll put you on an improvement plan, then look for any reason to let you go. Its actually not that hard for them to get rid of you. The first few years they can do what they want and just not renew you, but after that there are plenty of things they can do to squeeze you out. Admin will nitpick and helicopter the hell out of you
Life wasn't always so great though. I used to have a shitty, high paying job that I was severely underpaid for. I had to travel a lot and deal with shitty people. It drained my soul.
One day I woke up and realized that I'd be a much happier with less money and a shittier job.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna be a teacher in the next year. At least that's my goal.
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
Like most jobs if they want you gone, theyll find a way. Most teachers have morning duty. Mine starts at 7:30 3 days a week one semester and 2 days a week the other. Its a waste of time. Its too much, and its nonsense when you have so much stuff to get done and you gotta stand there and watch a few kids talk outside and others walking by to where they need to go. Anyway, say you get out there at 7:32 a handfull of days. Oh my god you're late you need an intervention in time management lol. Theyll put you on an improvement plan, then look for any reason to let you go. Its actually not that hard for them to get rid of you. The first few years they can do what they want and just not renew you, but after that there are plenty of things they can do to squeeze you out. Admin will nitpick and helicopter the hell out of you
If you aren’t 15 minutes early, you are 15 minutes late.
Little real fallout? Last I did any research, most school systems hire new teachers on annual contracts. Meaning you have a job from the start to the end of the school your with NO guarantee for the year after. Meaning you can be let go for any number of reasons reguardless of your job performance. Just think about that for a second.
You realize every state is "At-will Employment", which means you can be let go from any job for any reason. That's certainly not unique to just teachers, even in the states that have restrictions on the at-will employment.
I personally don't know if teachers are underpaid, justly paid, or overpaid - that's not really my call. All I know is it seems all of these underpaid jobs are "tough as fuck", "overworked", and "work more than 8 hours a day". I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of some of these things, but good grief ya'll are seriously overplaying some aspects.
Like most jobs if they want you gone, theyll find a way. Most teachers have morning duty. Mine starts at 7:30 3 days a week one semester and 2 days a week the other. Its a waste of time. Its too much, and its nonsense when you have so much stuff to get done and you gotta stand there and watch a few kids talk outside and others walking by to where they need to go. Anyway, say you get out there at 7:32 a handfull of days. Oh my god you're late you need an intervention in time management lol. Theyll put you on an improvement plan, then look for any reason to let you go. Its actually not that hard for them to get rid of you. The first few years they can do what they want and just not renew you, but after that there are plenty of things they can do to squeeze you out. Admin will nitpick and helicopter the hell out of you
If you aren’t 15 minutes early, you are 15 minutes late.
I had a few instances this year where I was getting ready for the day and got there early. MAking some copies/printing off some stuff for that day, or typing up my examples I was going to do on the smart board. You know, the actual important things. Went a minute or two past 7:30 not seeing the time and was out there before 7:35 and Id get an email about my late to duty notice. Pissed me the hell off. Send a sorry for that message trying to explain why I was a couple minutes late and that I understood I needed to be out there at 7:30 and not 7:33. Basically the response was I needed to stay later to finish so I dont have to do anything in the morning. I was there till 6-7 every night that whole semester. I had 3 different class preps every day. Shit like that rubs you the wrong way. I learned this year just to accept that administration is out for themselves and dont rely on them to have your back for shit. A few times this year I was thrown under the bus. A couple times in parent meetings in front of me. Made me pretty upset.
Currently I work as a software engineer.
That should say something about teachers being underpaid/overworked/underappreciated.
Fortunately, the conversation has been largely civil, so hopefully they aren't getting quite the range of outraged responses they were expecting...
Teachers work far more hours than just in the classroom. Aside from things already mentioned, there are other factors. Don't want to coach because you don't give a shit about sports, that's too bad, we need a boys swimming coach, enjoy 2 matches a week and 2 hours of practice every day. Want to go home to your wife and unwind? Nah, we've got a fundraiser and you've been elected to the committee. Not to mention constantly evolving (and ridiculous) standards that each lesson has to meet, and which are graded subjectively by whatever administrator. You've got to have your lessons planned for the week, before the week, and turned in and approved.
Planning period to grade papers? Forget about it, you'll have a "staff, or block" meeting one day a week. Another two you'll be "volunteering" to help do one thing or another. Oh, and of course, little Timmy was sick and missed the test. He's not able to stay after because he plays a school sport, you get to proctor the test during your "planning period."
I think they're underpaid, at least in my area where the starting salary is around $27k.
I also don't currently work in education.
I also teach in one of the top districts in MA, and our education system is head and shoulders above most of the country, so my pay reflects that.
I work far more than 40 hours a week at school, own my own business, and have 3 multi family homes in the greater Boston area (one in Boston proper) to supplement my pay.
Many teachers are grossly underpaid, but the "over worked" ones just don't have the grit to cut it in teaching (and likely other lines of work).
Edit: that’s not a dig on any teachers or past teachers in this thread, it’s for folks like that martyr who wrote the article about teaching a few years and how bad he had it. Toughen up, the world owes you nothing.
For 30-40k and annoying coworkers, I definitely wouldn't do it.