Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit.
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit.
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
Exactly. These are items that generally exist in the 100's of thousands. Unless you have inordinately deep pockets, you cannot control the market.
And if you had enough money to actually control the market for a single title...you would have much better things to be doing.
Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit. On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
Exactly. These are items that generally exist in the 100's of thousands. Unless you have inordinately deep pockets, you cannot control the market.
And if you had enough money to actually control the market for a single title...you would have much better things to be doing.
agree completely on both points. Once you have put in say, $20,000 into 1 title for example and purchased all of the copies out there. Now you have to sell them 1 by 1 and maybe get a decent return. or you could use your $20,000 in capital on a more traditional investment and make much, much more money. People that have the money to do this would not consider this a valuable use of resources.
I think it is a complete waste of capital to do such a thing.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
I seem to recall an episode of Goof Troop where they went and bought all of the crappiest baseball card because they were worthless. They turned around and destroyed them all making the last remaining card extremely valuable. I can't remember how it ends, but my guess would be...
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
The only correction is that DreamTR isn't just advertising $50k for a NWC Gold, he's advertising $50k for the MINTEST known NWC Gold. When you do a lot of reselling in this hobby, you quickly learn that some people will pay astronomical prices for truly MINT stuff. $50k still is a stretch, but unfortunately I don't think it's quite as far-fetched as you'd think, especially long term.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
The only correction is that DreamTR isn't just advertising $50k for a NWC Gold, he's advertising $50k for the MINTEST known NWC Gold. When you do a lot of reselling in this hobby, you quickly learn that some people will pay astronomical prices for truly MINT stuff. $50k still is a stretch, but unfortunately I don't think it's quite as far-fetched as you'd think, especially long term.
Exactly. Soon it's not going to be as farfetched as anyone thinks because it WILL be the reality someday, soon IMO. That's also gonna happen with all the popular games, and blackboxed ones as well I think. Frisbee may be paying very high dollars in some of your opinions for the difference from a 9.5 to a 9.7, but in the long run MINT is gonna be the most popular. Happens with comics and all other collectibles, and WILL happen with games.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
The only correction is that DreamTR isn't just advertising $50k for a NWC Gold, he's advertising $50k for the MINTEST known NWC Gold. When you do a lot of reselling in this hobby, you quickly learn that some people will pay astronomical prices for truly MINT stuff. $50k still is a stretch, but unfortunately I don't think it's quite as far-fetched as you'd think, especially long term.
Just because it MIGHT be worth $50k 5, 10, 15 years in the future, does not mean it's worth that much now...and it obviously isn't or else someone would have bought it for that price.
If 50k isn't far fetched in the future, DreamTR will raise the price on his. He really has no intention of selling that cart, and if the cart actually appreciated to a 50k value, I can assure you, he'd ask 100k for his. The only way it's worth it to him to sell his is if he gets over market value for it.
If 50k isn't far fetched in the future, DreamTR will raise the price on his. He really has no intention of selling that cart, and if the cart actually appreciated to a 50k value, I can assure you, he'd ask 100k for his. The only way it's worth it to him to sell his is if he gets over market value for it.
No offense to Dream...but that is such a retarded sentiment to have. I can understand having a target sell price that hasn't been met yet, but to forgo the opportunity to sell for a very real gain just because they won't pay "over the current market value" is just asinine.
I think you guys are confusing "for sale" and "not for sale but everyone has a price and here's mine". The copies he had "for sale" are long since sold.
I agree with phil. Prime example, I keep my F2 cart in the shop. I have no intention og selling it at all. However, when people ask "How much" I tell them 350. I know it is insane price but if some dipshit (fav word btw) pays that much so be it. I can replace it for less than half that. But, it will not be THE cart my husband suprised me with.....Now that I think about it 450
Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit.
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
You're exactly right and it's a pretty basic economic principle. It is hard to make a profit on something like this because entry to the market is extremely accessible. So, even if you do make a good profit on the first few, other people will enter the market trying to get their piece of the action, thus increases supply and lowering the price. There are for sure many other worthwhile things you could do with your time and money.
reminds me of one of my favorite episodes of Silver Spoons.
ONE of? favorite?
I never knew this show existed, and for good reason. It is quite possibly the worst thing i have ever saw.
If you had grown up in the early to mid eighties, you'd think much differently. Of course it's terrible now, but it was a really good show back then. My second favorite was an episode where precracked out Whitney Houston played Alfonso's (guy from Fresh Prince) Dad's girlfriend.
They had a train going through their house, a full arcade, basically everything you'd ever want. It was awesome.
I think I was just a little bit too young to remember this show, but I enjoyed the clip. Especially seeing as Tommy Lasorda ended up in the Hall of Fame eventually.
This has kind of happened with R.O.B. stuff too on ebay, with that one guy buying all of them that come up(sometimes even overpriced ones) just to keep control of the market, In hopes thatthe demand will rise enough to resell what he's bought at a profit.
This guy was pissing me off so badly when I was trying to track down a Small Box R.O.B. He's got like 4 or 5 shills/storefronts going, and they all bid on this stuff, turn right around and BIN it for 3-4x the price. I remember one auction I lost to him that was a mint CIB ROB, ended at like $225-ish. It was relisted the next week by him for something like $600. I was so pissed.
Speaking of, guess who I just lost to at the last second:
Completely unrelated, but all this talk of Silver Spoons reminds me of the show that came on AFTER it in syndication -- Small Wonder. If there was one show that's more painful to watch than Silver Spoons, I'd vote for Small Wonder.
It's hard to say. A lot of the rare games that, in recent memory, people have hoarded/resold at inflated prices weren't "manipulation" or "control of the market", per se, so much as people getting caught up in the hype around a given title and being willing to pay stupid amounts for it.
A lot of the times it's just an ordinary "bubble effect" that some people will confuse for a manipulated market.
there's a certain atari collector who spent a big chunk of money (well into 4 digits) buying his first copy of a certain blue t-handled cart. another one came up on ebay some time later and was going to sell for quite a bit less, so he bought that copy too to keep the price up.
to date there are only about 12 carts known to exist. i don't believe another copy has been sold at open auction since then, so it remains to be seen how that will work out for him.
I think where rare games are concerned, the market can be easily manipulated. Take for example the gold NWC. JJ paid $18k for it, prior to this its value was around $12k (if im not mistaken). However without a doubt the next gold NWC will be at least 20K, because of the last one being sold for 18k.
As for the non rare stuff, it would take alot of effort to single handedly corrupt the market. There are a few sellers on eBay UK (who I wont single out) using a few accounts trying to manipulate the value of Megadrive, Mega CD and 32X games. Unfortunately for them though, their target customers are well aware of their doing (and theyre not getting very far doing it)
I think where rare games are concerned, the market can be easily manipulated. Take for example the gold NWC. JJ paid $18k for it, prior to this its value was around $12k (if im not mistaken). However without a doubt the next gold NWC will be at least 20K, because of the last one being sold for 18k.
I dunno. It's entirely possible that the $12k sales were under priced, and even at that time, it could have sold for $18k.
Then again, maybe the $18k price is a bubble, and noone will be able to make another sale until they lower the asking price to $13/$14k range...
What it comes down to, as has been touched on, is what price people are willing to pay for something. You could own every copy of Silent Service and then price it at $500 for cart only, but I seriously doubt you'd find even one buyer. Maybe if no one knew how many copies of the game there were, you'd get a few collectors to cough up that kind of cash, but in the end you'd have a room full of Silent Service carts and $2000. But you'd really need to own EVERY SINGLE COPY. It's really not feasible, and I don't think you can make a profit regardless of what game you try it with.
The Turbo Grafx stuff is a prime example of this. Sure there are several Ebay sellers trying to pawn this stuff off as highly valuable, but their BIN auctions just get relisted week after week because they prices are simply over-inflated. You might sucker one or two people if every auction is a high BIN, but you'll be paying for it in Ebay fees and waiting months just to sell anything. Every game has a cut-off price of what people are willing to pay for it.
No one can control the price of anything as pretaining to open market. As far as taxes, licenes, etc the goverment can set what you got to pay. but as far as games. they will only sell ever for what someone is willing to pay. I f someone comes along and is will to pay one million for a nwc cart the cart to that person is worth a million dollars, doesnt make all the rest worth a million just that one. Myself I wouldnt pay more than 500 dollars for a nwc cart so to me there not worth more than that. someone else might be willing to pay more. but as always stated by Me. something is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay.
good example is the stupid prices some resellers put on stuff and let them sit for years and years, I guess there looking for that one idiot that will pay what their asking but it still doesnt make the item worth what they are selling it for.
I seem to recall an episode of Goof Troop where they went and bought all of the crappiest baseball card because they were worthless. They turned around and destroyed them all making the last remaining card extremely valuable. I can't remember how it ends, but my guess would be...
Buy Baseball Cards for cheap
Destroy Baseball Cards
??????
Profit!
They bought up all the worthless cards for a quarter each and when they were about to dump the whole load into a washing machine at the laundry mat they were somehow thwarted and everyone got their cards back with a refound appreciation for the "worthless" card.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
I wouldn't really call what I am doing advertising. I make post "responses" to people's threads, but I'm not really creating much of a thread frenzy/for sale thing on the items...
Also, udisi is 100% correct, I'm not actively trying to part with the stuff. It's always funny how threads like this come up with my really high end one of a kind items and me "asking too much" but not a word is said when I sell everything else I have doubles of cheap cheap cheap on forums and eBay...I always wonder why that is...
And I'll say this again. There is no "market value" on items like this, only items of comparable "sales" of previous items (what the last one went for). If an unreleased Zelda game came up for a system, you really think it's not going to hit 10X what other unreleased protos are worth? It's all relative.
As much as people put on condition, the gold NWC I have is in better condition than any of the others out there, so I think asking more since the others have "scratches" is fine. Since people are so finicky about tears and creases on their boxes, this is even crazier when dealing with tens of thousands of dollars.
Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market.
My take on this statement, including an explanation of prototype market value:
This would only be true if he continued to buy up all the available prototypes that hit the market (He's not). As prototypes continue to sell for less than what Dream is willing to sell them for, the market stays healthily active at reasonable prices.
I've bought ten or so prototypes in the past month and a half, most of which have been on eBay (open market). The prices ranged from $70-$270. Of the 60 or so NES prototypes I own, the VAST majority sold between $75-$175.
To put things in perspective, Dream would like 5K for War on Wheels. I currently own 8 unreleased NES games, and the most I ever paid for one was $1,500 (to, you guessed it, Dream). Hoppin' Mad and Kitty's Catch COMBINED cost me around 2K. I bought one unreleased game for under $350, just to give you an idea of how crazy prices can get.
When thousands of prototypes exist, it is impossible to control the market. When only a dozen or so NWC Gold Carts exist, it's much easier to do.
When people believe that Dream has cornered the market in prototypes, the value of the protos becomes inflated.
There is a market value for prototypes, and it's exactly what I've been paying. Common/less desirable carts are going to sell between $75-$125. This includes games like Darkman, Tiger Heli, Caesar's Palace, Krazy Kreatures, Blues Brothers, Bases Loaded, etc. Games that are more desirable/rarer releases will command a higher price which is typically between $200-$500. This includes titles like Megaman(s), Duck Tales 2, Bubble Bobble 2. etc. Unreleased (undumped) games tend to command a price tag between $500-$1,500. There is no speculation in these numbers. These are actual figures from actual purchase of the course of the past two years. I know because I purchased them. There are instances where some titles will bring in more money of course, but the instances are too rare to be considered market value (mathematical outliers in a sense).
There IS a market value for prototypes, even though many people tend to pretend otherwise. If there wasn't, I wouldn't have been able to purchase these items at these reasonable prices.
Comments
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit.
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
Exactly. These are items that generally exist in the 100's of thousands. Unless you have inordinately deep pockets, you cannot control the market.
And if you had enough money to actually control the market for a single title...you would have much better things to be doing.
Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit.
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
Exactly. These are items that generally exist in the 100's of thousands. Unless you have inordinately deep pockets, you cannot control the market.
And if you had enough money to actually control the market for a single title...you would have much better things to be doing.
agree completely on both points. Once you have put in say, $20,000 into 1 title for example and purchased all of the copies out there. Now you have to sell them 1 by 1 and maybe get a decent return. or you could use your $20,000 in capital on a more traditional investment and make much, much more money. People that have the money to do this would not consider this a valuable use of resources.
I think it is a complete waste of capital to do such a thing.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
I seem to recall an episode of Goof Troop where they went and bought all of the crappiest baseball card because they were worthless. They turned around and destroyed them all making the last remaining card extremely valuable. I can't remember how it ends, but my guess would be...
Buy Baseball Cards for cheap
Destroy Baseball Cards
??????
Profit!
That totally happened on Doug (from Nick)
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
The only correction is that DreamTR isn't just advertising $50k for a NWC Gold, he's advertising $50k for the MINTEST known NWC Gold. When you do a lot of reselling in this hobby, you quickly learn that some people will pay astronomical prices for truly MINT stuff. $50k still is a stretch, but unfortunately I don't think it's quite as far-fetched as you'd think, especially long term.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
The only correction is that DreamTR isn't just advertising $50k for a NWC Gold, he's advertising $50k for the MINTEST known NWC Gold. When you do a lot of reselling in this hobby, you quickly learn that some people will pay astronomical prices for truly MINT stuff. $50k still is a stretch, but unfortunately I don't think it's quite as far-fetched as you'd think, especially long term.
Exactly. Soon it's not going to be as farfetched as anyone thinks because it WILL be the reality someday, soon IMO. That's also gonna happen with all the popular games, and blackboxed ones as well I think. Frisbee may be paying very high dollars in some of your opinions for the difference from a 9.5 to a 9.7, but in the long run MINT is gonna be the most popular. Happens with comics and all other collectibles, and WILL happen with games.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
The only correction is that DreamTR isn't just advertising $50k for a NWC Gold, he's advertising $50k for the MINTEST known NWC Gold. When you do a lot of reselling in this hobby, you quickly learn that some people will pay astronomical prices for truly MINT stuff. $50k still is a stretch, but unfortunately I don't think it's quite as far-fetched as you'd think, especially long term.
Just because it MIGHT be worth $50k 5, 10, 15 years in the future, does not mean it's worth that much now...and it obviously isn't or else someone would have bought it for that price.
Could one person have an effect on a cart's value.
Come on, guys!
If 50k isn't far fetched in the future, DreamTR will raise the price on his. He really has no intention of selling that cart, and if the cart actually appreciated to a 50k value, I can assure you, he'd ask 100k for his. The only way it's worth it to him to sell his is if he gets over market value for it.
No offense to Dream...but that is such a retarded sentiment to have. I can understand having a target sell price that hasn't been met yet, but to forgo the opportunity to sell for a very real gain just because they won't pay "over the current market value" is just asinine.
Batty you forgot the step where you steal my all of our underpants... that comes before profit.
On a serious note I have played around with this before, I won't say on which NES titles but I have bought up every single CIB copy of a game I saw for a long time. The real problem though is that you absolutely HAVE to buy them all. No matter how much they are no matter how crappy shape they are you HAVE to buy them for this to work. And even then who's to say you go and list one of the nice shape ones at a high price cause there aren't any others for sale and it just makes people go wow that's what XXXXX sells for now and boom they list theirs. Just too hard.
You're exactly right and it's a pretty basic economic principle. It is hard to make a profit on something like this because entry to the market is extremely accessible. So, even if you do make a good profit on the first few, other people will enter the market trying to get their piece of the action, thus increases supply and lowering the price. There are for sure many other worthwhile things you could do with your time and money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6PIBt1SjjI
reminds me of one of my favorite episodes of Silver Spoons.
ONE of? favorite?
I never knew this show existed, and for good reason. It is quite possibly the worst thing i have ever saw.
If you had grown up in the early to mid eighties, you'd think much differently. Of course it's terrible now, but it was a really good show back then. My second favorite was an episode where precracked out Whitney Houston played Alfonso's (guy from Fresh Prince) Dad's girlfriend.
They had a train going through their house, a full arcade, basically everything you'd ever want. It was awesome.
I think I was just a little bit too young to remember this show, but I enjoyed the clip. Especially seeing as Tommy Lasorda ended up in the Hall of Fame eventually.
This has kind of happened with R.O.B. stuff too on ebay, with that one guy buying all of them that come up(sometimes even overpriced ones) just to keep control of the market, In hopes thatthe demand will rise enough to resell what he's bought at a profit.
This guy was pissing me off so badly when I was trying to track down a Small Box R.O.B. He's got like 4 or 5 shills/storefronts going, and they all bid on this stuff, turn right around and BIN it for 3-4x the price. I remember one auction I lost to him that was a mint CIB ROB, ended at like $225-ish. It was relisted the next week by him for something like $600. I was so pissed.
Speaking of, guess who I just lost to at the last second:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110425502287&autorefresh=true
First time I'd ever bid on anything game related on ebay to boot.
Ah hell.
so some think you can effect the price of a game with limited production for short term, but not long term?
If you're referring to games of very limited availability, then I think that's an accurate assessment.
Same goes for stock market/commodities. They're readily manipulated in the short term, by the right players, but long term it will be it's own animal.
so some think you can effect the price of a game with limited production for short term, but not long term?
If you're referring to games of very limited availability, then I think that's an accurate assessment.
Same goes for stock market/commodities. They're readily manipulated in the short term, by the right players, but long term it will be it's own animal.
so where do you think you could draw the line? Just for games like the NWC cart, or games with limited print runs like Flintstones 2?
A lot of the times it's just an ordinary "bubble effect" that some people will confuse for a manipulated market.
there's a certain atari collector who spent a big chunk of money (well into 4 digits) buying his first copy of a certain blue t-handled cart. another one came up on ebay some time later and was going to sell for quite a bit less, so he bought that copy too to keep the price up.
to date there are only about 12 carts known to exist. i don't believe another copy has been sold at open auction since then, so it remains to be seen how that will work out for him.
As for the non rare stuff, it would take alot of effort to single handedly corrupt the market. There are a few sellers on eBay UK (who I wont single out) using a few accounts trying to manipulate the value of Megadrive, Mega CD and 32X games. Unfortunately for them though, their target customers are well aware of their doing (and theyre not getting very far doing it)
I think where rare games are concerned, the market can be easily manipulated. Take for example the gold NWC. JJ paid $18k for it, prior to this its value was around $12k (if im not mistaken). However without a doubt the next gold NWC will be at least 20K, because of the last one being sold for 18k.
I dunno. It's entirely possible that the $12k sales were under priced, and even at that time, it could have sold for $18k.
Then again, maybe the $18k price is a bubble, and noone will be able to make another sale until they lower the asking price to $13/$14k range...
The Turbo Grafx stuff is a prime example of this. Sure there are several Ebay sellers trying to pawn this stuff off as highly valuable, but their BIN auctions just get relisted week after week because they prices are simply over-inflated. You might sucker one or two people if every auction is a high BIN, but you'll be paying for it in Ebay fees and waiting months just to sell anything. Every game has a cut-off price of what people are willing to pay for it.
good example is the stupid prices some resellers put on stuff and let them sit for years and years, I guess there looking for that one idiot that will pay what their asking but it still doesnt make the item worth what they are selling it for.
I seem to recall an episode of Goof Troop where they went and bought all of the crappiest baseball card because they were worthless. They turned around and destroyed them all making the last remaining card extremely valuable. I can't remember how it ends, but my guess would be...
Buy Baseball Cards for cheap
Destroy Baseball Cards
??????
Profit!
They bought up all the worthless cards for a quarter each and when they were about to dump the whole load into a washing machine at the laundry mat they were somehow thwarted and everyone got their cards back with a refound appreciation for the "worthless" card.
lol @ Chavez II being the example. Sorry I had to laugh, that's the Tengen Tetris of the SNES.
In all seriousness, it would have to be a VERY rare item, ala SE box or NWC Gold type of rare. DreamTR kind of did this with the NWC Golds, although he turned them around and didn't try to sit on them. Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market. In order for this idea to work, the game has to be the rarest of the rare, not just some $20 cart that is uncommon.
Except "controlling the market" on an item implies that you're actually managing to sell them for the price you're asking. DreamTR has been advertising a $50k NWC Gold and a $5k War On Wheels for awhile, and neither of those have left his hands yet
At the end of the day, if you have a one-of-a-kind item, you can ASK whatever you want for it...but you won't get your asking price unless the market will bear it.
When you're selling items that people don't actually need, then as a seller you'll always be at the mercy of what people can reasonably pay if you actually expect to sell.
I wouldn't really call what I am doing advertising. I make post "responses" to people's threads, but I'm not really creating much of a thread frenzy/for sale thing on the items...
Also, udisi is 100% correct, I'm not actively trying to part with the stuff. It's always funny how threads like this come up with my really high end one of a kind items and me "asking too much" but not a word is said when I sell everything else I have doubles of cheap cheap cheap on forums and eBay...I always wonder why that is...
And I'll say this again. There is no "market value" on items like this, only items of comparable "sales" of previous items (what the last one went for). If an unreleased Zelda game came up for a system, you really think it's not going to hit 10X what other unreleased protos are worth? It's all relative.
As much as people put on condition, the gold NWC I have is in better condition than any of the others out there, so I think asking more since the others have "scratches" is fine. Since people are so finicky about tears and creases on their boxes, this is even crazier when dealing with tens of thousands of dollars.
Speaking of DreamTR, he's kind of doing this with Protos as he has often stated "My items are for sale, but not at market value", which inherently implies he is controlling the Proto market.
My take on this statement, including an explanation of prototype market value:
This would only be true if he continued to buy up all the available prototypes that hit the market (He's not). As prototypes continue to sell for less than what Dream is willing to sell them for, the market stays healthily active at reasonable prices.
I've bought ten or so prototypes in the past month and a half, most of which have been on eBay (open market). The prices ranged from $70-$270. Of the 60 or so NES prototypes I own, the VAST majority sold between $75-$175.
To put things in perspective, Dream would like 5K for War on Wheels. I currently own 8 unreleased NES games, and the most I ever paid for one was $1,500 (to, you guessed it, Dream). Hoppin' Mad and Kitty's Catch COMBINED cost me around 2K. I bought one unreleased game for under $350, just to give you an idea of how crazy prices can get.
When thousands of prototypes exist, it is impossible to control the market. When only a dozen or so NWC Gold Carts exist, it's much easier to do.
When people believe that Dream has cornered the market in prototypes, the value of the protos becomes inflated.
There is a market value for prototypes, and it's exactly what I've been paying. Common/less desirable carts are going to sell between $75-$125. This includes games like Darkman, Tiger Heli, Caesar's Palace, Krazy Kreatures, Blues Brothers, Bases Loaded, etc. Games that are more desirable/rarer releases will command a higher price which is typically between $200-$500. This includes titles like Megaman(s), Duck Tales 2, Bubble Bobble 2. etc. Unreleased (undumped) games tend to command a price tag between $500-$1,500. There is no speculation in these numbers. These are actual figures from actual purchase of the course of the past two years. I know because I purchased them. There are instances where some titles will bring in more money of course, but the instances are too rare to be considered market value (mathematical outliers in a sense).
There IS a market value for prototypes, even though many people tend to pretend otherwise. If there wasn't, I wouldn't have been able to purchase these items at these reasonable prices.