I prefer JRPGs myself. I've always liked the overblown world saving stories and the turn based combat. I personally think turn based is more in the tradition of classic roleplaying and when I pick up an RPG, I just prefer it to action RPG "live" combat.
I'm the odd man out. Give me a Bioware RPG over anything from Japan any day of the week! Knights of the Old Republic is my favorite game ever, the story blew me away and us singlehandly responsible for me picking video games back up after almost 10 years!
I'm the odd man out. Give me a Bioware RPG over anything from Japan any day of the week!
IMHO, the only truly "good" RPG BioWare has done in the past few years was Mass Effect. As much as I enjoyed Dragon Age, I get a little tired of the whole "Good/Evil" crap that comes with WRPGs. That's kind of been a staple of their games since KOTOR.
I may be one of the only people out there that hated Jade Empire. I just thought the combat was goofy as hell.
What I like about JRPGs is that it's more like reading a story that's already been established. I honestly think that having a user created character that's just sort of planted in the story kind of takes away from the immersion of it.
JRPGs all the way!! Long live Chrono Trigger! I just wish more would come out now a days. The closest new stuff for me has been FF XIII and Star Ocean on PS3.
I prefer the JRPG's, but the good ones have been few and far between nowadays.
(J= Japan, W= Western)
What he said entirely. Most of them now aren't that hot, makes you kind of sad knowing it's just not likely to get much better either. WRPGs are more classic DnD only like story based stuff, live combat usually in most cases, and use their own set of dustier tired cliches of classes, lands, and characters. JRPGs tend to play out the turn based stuff heavily and usually with a kid saves the world type thing, but at least the ride through and end tends to vary in style more than the west tries to do.
I don't count this I hope as a threadjacking, but why don't we also give up some ideas of good JRPG or WRPGs in the thread too? I'd love to hear if people think stuff like Eternal Sonata on the PS3 was any good, or perhaps Tales of Symphonia2 on Wii(it got varied responses I know from crap to good.) Personally I'm doing a slow crawl against FF9 right now since I got a PS1 again recently.
Well not the bioware stuff obviously, but there just seems to be a lot from the 1980s to now that live off of or based in various ways off the D&D model. Those you listed I never liked and couldn't get into at all. Well Wizardry was ok, but the rest nah not for me.
Well, JRPG's are probably better for kids since they're so much easier than the western-style of RPG, so that's what most of us would have nostalgia for. There are quite a few western RPGs that have genuine challenge beyond the level-grind.
I think it's pretty hilarious, actually, that western designed RPGs are so much harder than JRPG's. But Japanese action/arcade games tend to be acknowledged as more difficult than their American counterparts.
I don't count this I hope as a threadjacking, but why don't we also give up some ideas of good JRPG or WRPGs in the thread too? I'd love to hear if people think stuff like Eternal Sonata on the PS3 was any good, or perhaps Tales of Symphonia2 on Wii(it got varied responses I know from crap to good.) Personally I'm doing a slow crawl against FF9 right now since I got a PS1 again recently.
Oh, cry cry. I reeeeally liked the first Tales of Symphonia, but the second one did absolutely nothing for me. I probably got less than 1/4 of the way through it before trading it in. Couldn't stand the neverending whining of the main character.
My problem with WRPGs is that I don't like the style of grinding many have as it's just too damn slow, tedious, and micromanaged getting sometimes as far down as to what kind of + something you can slap onto some form of Armor+? for a bonus of what not, and same with spells, weapons, and so on. All this bound usually to a very slow trodding story that drags on into what seems like it could get epic but not usually is the case. WoW, Guild Wars, D&D games on or offline, SSI stuff, etc ...I can deal with it for a bit, usually a little longer with the online one if I got a friend to keep going with it, but they bore the crap out of me. It has nothing to do with kiddy nostalgia or being a simple minded fool or something, but the Japanese stories have better progression/context usually, quicker resolution, not overly convoluted upgrade and/or experience systems and I appreciate that more.
I'm sorry, but Japanese story telling in RPG's is downright terrible, in most cases. Everybody wants to pretend that they enjoy it, so they can be part of the fanboy craze incrowd...but really, the stories are generally awful, and the character interactions are cringe-worthy.
The games are entertaining for nostalgia's sake, though.
From my understanding (I'm open to correction if I'm wrong, though), it basically goes like this:
JRPGs = Relatively linear gameplay, with the central focus more on plot and character development, rather than customization and an abundance of options.
WRPGs = Games like KotOR, which focus more on customization choices, and less on character development/plot. They take more liberties with the game, so to speak. Also less linear.
I'm sorry, but Japanese story telling in RPG's is downright terrible, in most cases. Everybody wants to pretend that they enjoy it, so they can be part of the fanboy craze incrowd...but really, the stories are generally awful, and the character interactions are cringe-worthy.
The games are entertaining for nostalgia's sake, though.
That's your opinion. Some people do legitimately enjoy stories in RPGs, like me. "Fanboy craze" has nothing to do with anything. Yeah, they're usually generic, but that doesn't mean they're unenjoyable. I have no clue why people say that if a story is cliche/generic, it sucks and is impossible to enjoy.
That's your opinion. Some people do legitimately enjoy stories in RPGs, like me. "Fanboy craze" has nothing to do with anything. Yeah, they're usually generic, but that doesn't mean they're unenjoyable. I have no clue why people say that if a story is cliche/generic, it sucks and is impossible to enjoy.
People say that, because an original or innovative story is, in general, far more interesting and enjoyable than one you feel you've heard a dozen times before.
I was just telling a friend today at lunch I needed a good RPG to hold me over for awhile, then proceeded to bitch about how there are no good new ones. Last good RPG I played was Tales Of Vesperia. FF13 was almost a chore to play. With all that said, I love myself a well done JRPG.
... is there a way to legitimately say that I genuinely enjoy both and cannot pick one category, as it comes down to a case-by-case basis in my opinion?
I'm kinda split I do like chrono trigger, star ocean, SNES final fantasies, shining force, and tales games but my all time favorites are a three way tie between baldurs gate, morrowind, and a little known game called Ultima:Worlds of adventure Martian Dreams.
I think there are more acceptable jrpgs but just a (very) few amazing wrpgs
I'm sorry, but Japanese story telling in RPG's is downright terrible, in most cases. Everybody wants to pretend that they enjoy it, so they can be part of the fanboy craze incrowd...but really, the stories are generally awful, and the character interactions are cringe-worthy.
The games are entertaining for nostalgia's sake, though.
I'm not into or aware of a huge trend now to be into JRPG, there was one though, but I never got into it and it's just that I got my start with them, played both, and can't stomach much of the WRPG style stuff, at least the DnD traditional type stuff as it's too slow paced and dry with the usual predictable DnD stereotypes and the overkill micromanagement.
NIRVANA: You're being very general but yes that does fit. WRPG is more on wide spanning areas with deep customization and nameless/faceless types you build which go along with the story as a generic counterpart to a minimal developed character/plot element. JRPG are the opposite, usually linear, much deeper development into the personal character development(especially key players) and more plot building like you get in a family adventure movie. They're generic, but they do vary quite a bit, but they're anything but terrible in many cases.
Perhaps rokubungi has a point, there's far more acceptable jrpgs, but very few stand out wrpgs.
I'm a long time fan of JRPG's. I've been playing them since Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES, and I still play them to this day. What I like about them, and I think what the appeal of them is to many Japanese players, is that they are based around a certain kind of familiarity. arch is calling this being generic and cliche, but some people really enjoy seeing the same elements return time and again, maybe with a bit of a twist here and there. If I don't see a Cid and a Chocobo in my Final Fantasy games, I feel like something's missing. Also, I love turn-based combat, which you see a lot more in JRPG's than in WRPG's. It allows for planning, strategy, and using the noggin more than just being an epic button masher.
Now as much as I enjoy familiarity, I do like big stories. Frankly, there are a lot of JRPG's that have done this very well in the last few years. Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy XII, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (not turn-based, I know, but great story). I also really enjoy the .hack games that Bandai puts out. What I think a lot of Western players look for in an RPG is totally different than what a JRPG offers. I think there's a lot of crap out there, too, lol. The entire Tales series, I could take it or leave it. I'm not a fan of a lot of the Atlus RPG's, either. However, to say that Japanese story-telling is total crap, I think overlooks a lot of very good games.
I don't mean to say that there are NO good JRPG's. I do enjoy the classics on the NES and SNES, when the concept was still fairly original, and the storylines and characters translated better to a western audience.
But, to me, the vast majority of JRPG's made since the release of the PS1 are fairly derivative, and have some of the most absurd character interactions ever put to script. They attempt to be overly dramatic in a way that simply goes too far and becomes ridiculous. (this doesn't apply to the Dragon Quest games, since they've always been good about not taking themselves seriously, and have managed to maintain a fun experience as a result)
Western RPGs, on the other hand, have continued to innovate pretty well, providing new styles of play and more open worlds to explore.
I guess a big thing for me, is that the larger and larger time commitment that style of game requires, I have to be more and more critical of the actual content they're presenting.
See, that's where I guess I get pithy about Western RPG's, in how short a lot of them are. I mean, take the Fable games, for example. Very interesting stories, innovative gameplay...9-10 hours long. Maybe 20 if you're wringing the game dry of content. Or what about Bioware's games? Mass Effect - 20-30 hours. KOTOR? 20-30 hours.
There's nothing wrong with the shorter game play experience, but I think that's where the genre's really diverge. WRPG's look better because they are a lot more concise with the experience. I'm sure some JRPG's would have been much better games had some of the fat been trimmed off; however, I'd be curious which games you've really done run-throughs on that have come out in the last, say, 5-10 years (PS2 gen and up). It seems you've maybe skipped over some of the better games out there.
I prefer jrpgs because of all the familiar elements they have. Originality is good, but when something works originality becomes less important than enjoying the game.
Comments
(J= Japan, W= Western)
I'm a child of the 80's so I got to grow up with FF, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest, etc.
I'm the odd man out. Give me a Bioware RPG over anything from Japan any day of the week!
IMHO, the only truly "good" RPG BioWare has done in the past few years was Mass Effect. As much as I enjoyed Dragon Age, I get a little tired of the whole "Good/Evil" crap that comes with WRPGs. That's kind of been a staple of their games since KOTOR.
I may be one of the only people out there that hated Jade Empire. I just thought the combat was goofy as hell.
What I like about JRPGs is that it's more like reading a story that's already been established. I honestly think that having a user created character that's just sort of planted in the story kind of takes away from the immersion of it.
I prefer the JRPG's, but the good ones have been few and far between nowadays.
(J= Japan, W= Western)
What he said entirely. Most of them now aren't that hot, makes you kind of sad knowing it's just not likely to get much better either. WRPGs are more classic DnD only like story based stuff, live combat usually in most cases, and use their own set of dustier tired cliches of classes, lands, and characters. JRPGs tend to play out the turn based stuff heavily and usually with a kid saves the world type thing, but at least the ride through and end tends to vary in style more than the west tries to do.
I don't count this I hope as a threadjacking, but why don't we also give up some ideas of good JRPG or WRPGs in the thread too? I'd love to hear if people think stuff like Eternal Sonata on the PS3 was any good, or perhaps Tales of Symphonia2 on Wii(it got varied responses I know from crap to good.) Personally I'm doing a slow crawl against FF9 right now since I got a PS1 again recently.
Wizardry, the Gold Box SSI games, Might and Magic, and Fallout are all examples of western RPGs that blow away JRPG's.
There are quite a few western RPGs that have genuine challenge beyond the level-grind.
I think it's pretty hilarious, actually, that western designed RPGs are so much harder than JRPG's. But Japanese action/arcade games tend to be acknowledged as more difficult than their American counterparts.
why don't we also give up some ideas of good JRPG or WRPGs in the thread
too? I'd love to hear if people think stuff like Eternal Sonata on the
PS3 was any good, or perhaps Tales of Symphonia2 on Wii(it got varied
responses I know from crap to good.) Personally I'm doing a slow crawl
against FF9 right now since I got a PS1 again recently.
Oh, cry cry. I reeeeally liked the first Tales of Symphonia, but the second one did absolutely nothing for me. I probably got less than 1/4 of the way through it before trading it in. Couldn't stand the neverending whining of the main character.
My problem with WRPGs is that I don't like the style of grinding many have as it's just too damn slow, tedious, and micromanaged getting sometimes as far down as to what kind of + something you can slap onto some form of Armor+? for a bonus of what not, and same with spells, weapons, and so on. All this bound usually to a very slow trodding story that drags on into what seems like it could get epic but not usually is the case. WoW, Guild Wars, D&D games on or offline, SSI stuff, etc ...I can deal with it for a bit, usually a little longer with the online one if I got a friend to keep going with it, but they bore the crap out of me. It has nothing to do with kiddy nostalgia or being a simple minded fool or something, but the Japanese stories have better progression/context usually, quicker resolution, not overly convoluted upgrade and/or experience systems and I appreciate that more.
The games are entertaining for nostalgia's sake, though.
what? j or w what?
From my understanding (I'm open to correction if I'm wrong, though), it basically goes like this:
JRPGs = Relatively linear gameplay, with the central focus more on plot and character development, rather than customization and an abundance of options.
WRPGs = Games like KotOR, which focus more on customization choices, and less on character development/plot. They take more liberties with the game, so to speak. Also less linear.
I'm sorry, but Japanese story telling in RPG's is downright terrible, in most cases.
Generic perhaps, but hardly terrible.
I'm sorry, but Japanese story telling in RPG's is downright terrible, in most cases. Everybody wants to pretend that they enjoy it, so they can be part of the fanboy craze incrowd...but really, the stories are generally awful, and the character interactions are cringe-worthy.
The games are entertaining for nostalgia's sake, though.
That's your opinion. Some people do legitimately enjoy stories in RPGs, like me. "Fanboy craze" has nothing to do with anything. Yeah, they're usually generic, but that doesn't mean they're unenjoyable. I have no clue why people say that if a story is cliche/generic, it sucks and is impossible to enjoy.
That's your opinion. Some people do legitimately enjoy stories in RPGs, like me. "Fanboy craze" has nothing to do with anything. Yeah, they're usually generic, but that doesn't mean they're unenjoyable. I have no clue why people say that if a story is cliche/generic, it sucks and is impossible to enjoy.
People say that, because an original or innovative story is, in general, far more interesting and enjoyable than one you feel you've heard a dozen times before.
I think there are more acceptable jrpgs but just a (very) few amazing wrpgs
I'm sorry, but Japanese story telling in RPG's is downright terrible, in most cases. Everybody wants to pretend that they enjoy it, so they can be part of the fanboy craze incrowd...but really, the stories are generally awful, and the character interactions are cringe-worthy.
The games are entertaining for nostalgia's sake, though.
I'm not into or aware of a huge trend now to be into JRPG, there was one though, but I never got into it and it's just that I got my start with them, played both, and can't stomach much of the WRPG style stuff, at least the DnD traditional type stuff as it's too slow paced and dry with the usual predictable DnD stereotypes and the overkill micromanagement.
NIRVANA: You're being very general but yes that does fit. WRPG is more on wide spanning areas with deep customization and nameless/faceless types you build which go along with the story as a generic counterpart to a minimal developed character/plot element. JRPG are the opposite, usually linear, much deeper development into the personal character development(especially key players) and more plot building like you get in a family adventure movie. They're generic, but they do vary quite a bit, but they're anything but terrible in many cases.
Perhaps rokubungi has a point, there's far more acceptable jrpgs, but very few stand out wrpgs.
Now as much as I enjoy familiarity, I do like big stories. Frankly, there are a lot of JRPG's that have done this very well in the last few years. Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy XII, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (not turn-based, I know, but great story). I also really enjoy the .hack games that Bandai puts out. What I think a lot of Western players look for in an RPG is totally different than what a JRPG offers. I think there's a lot of crap out there, too, lol. The entire Tales series, I could take it or leave it. I'm not a fan of a lot of the Atlus RPG's, either. However, to say that Japanese story-telling is total crap, I think overlooks a lot of very good games.
But, to me, the vast majority of JRPG's made since the release of the PS1 are fairly derivative, and have some of the most absurd character interactions ever put to script. They attempt to be overly dramatic in a way that simply goes too far and becomes ridiculous. (this doesn't apply to the Dragon Quest games, since they've always been good about not taking themselves seriously, and have managed to maintain a fun experience as a result)
Western RPGs, on the other hand, have continued to innovate pretty well, providing new styles of play and more open worlds to explore.
I guess a big thing for me, is that the larger and larger time commitment that style of game requires, I have to be more and more critical of the actual content they're presenting.
There's nothing wrong with the shorter game play experience, but I think that's where the genre's really diverge. WRPG's look better because they are a lot more concise with the experience. I'm sure some JRPG's would have been much better games had some of the fat been trimmed off; however, I'd be curious which games you've really done run-throughs on that have come out in the last, say, 5-10 years (PS2 gen and up). It seems you've maybe skipped over some of the better games out there.