I realize this is a Nintendo forum but there's way too much SNES love going on here.
I couldn't get into the SNES back in the day. The Genesis was king of my two favorite genres of games. Run & Gunners and Shmups. Most games from those two genres were plagued with slow down on the SNES. For example, any Thunderforce game on the Genesis vs. Thunder Spirits on the SNES. I loved Super Mario Bros, Gradius, Contra, Metroid, Zelda, etc on the the NES but just couldn't get into their 16-bit counterparts.
I still can't get into the SNES today. I realize it excels at RPGs but I never liked those and I don't have the time to devote to getting into any of those games for an extended period of time. Too much text reading and grinding.
I'll take Axelay and Contra III over anything on the Genesis. Genesis had a lot of good shooters and run and gun games but I still prefer the SNES, especially if you factor in import titles like Parodius and Macross. I do love Gley Lancer though.
I'll take Axelay and Contra III over anything on the Genesis. Genesis had a lot of good shooters and run and gun games but I still prefer the SNES, especially if you factor in import titles like Parodius and Macross. I do love Gley Lancer though.
Interesting. Contra III is a good one, but so is Contra Hard Corp. I'd have trouble picking one over the other acutally and I'd probably pick the orignal Contra on the NES as my favorite Contra title. But for run and gunners the SNES can't even keep up. Try Doom Troopers on the Genesis then play it on the SNES. Can you say, "S-L-O-W-D-O-W-N"
I have to give the Genesis the edge as far as run and gunners go. Mercs, Midnight Resistance, and the grand daddy of em all...Gunstar Heroes. There's nothing even like that on the SNES.
Axelay is fun but I'd pick Thunder Force 2, 3, or 4 on the Genesis over Axelay, and as great as the Thunder Force 2, 3,4, are or Bio Hazard Battle, or Steel Empire(I could go on and on with good shoot em ups on the Genesis) the Genesis has an ace up it's sleeve in this genre too... M.U.S.H.A.
Contra: Hard Corps is a good game, great gameplay, but it can't hang with the graphics and sound of Contra III, which I think makes it a better experience overall. Cybernator was a quality run and gun kind of game, as were the Turrican games. Actually, the SNES hardware could keep up with the Genesis with the right programming. R2 Rendering Ranger proves that. Too bad it was never given a wider release. I'll agree with you that the Genesis had more good shooters but I think the SNES' best is better than the Genesis'. Space Megaforce was another good one from Compile on the SNES. Super EDF and UN Squadron were underrated shooters IMO. I actually prefer the Turbografx/PC Engine over the Genesis or SNES when it comes to shooters. Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, Sapphire, Salamander, Forgotten Worlds,etc. I guess it comes down to personal preference. I prefer Castlevania IV over Bloodlines, Contra III over Hard Corps, Super Mario World over Sonic, Final Fantasy over Phantasy Star, etc. I do like Ghouls N Ghosts over Super Ghouls N Ghosts though, and Strider was great too. Lots of great games on both consoles.
The thing that wrecks Contra III for me are those top down levels. They just break into the action too much and they look so dated today. Rendering Ranger is great game but doesn't come close to the onscreen speed and action of Gunstar Heroes.
Ryu, I think you're the first person I've conversed with who gives the nod to the SNES with regards to shoot em' ups when compared to the Genesis. Which is cool. We all like what we like. I'll agree with you though that the PC Engine has both beat.
Check it out if you haven't. You could emulate, but I filled my SNES PowerPak and Sega Everdrive flash cart with all the shmups and tried em' out on original hardware. In comparing the two the lag and slow down on more than half of the SNES shmups is laughable. That just sucks all the fun out of those games for me.
I've been to shmups.com many times over the years. Great site, too bad it hasn't been updated in ages. I'll grant you that the Genesis is the better console if you're a big shooter fan because of how many shooters it has overall. However, graphically and aurally I don't think the Genesis has anything that can compete with the SNES' best. I think Thunderforce IV and Biohazard Battle are great games that shows off what the Genesis can do, but there are so many games like Steel Empire that are just plain ugly IMO. The Genesis' color palette and sound chip are why I never cared much for it. Call me a graphics whore if you want.
I enjoyed the overhead levels on Contra III EXCEPT for the boss on the desert stage that has you spinning around all over the place. The rest of the game is just amazing to me. The graphics and sound are amazing, the bosses are super intense, and there were so many cool ideas like hanging from the missles, speeder bikes, etc. Contra Hard Corps was awesome too, and much more difficult, but I'll take Contra III.
Have you played through all of Steel Empire? It gets better as you go on. Especially the underground levels were you loop back at double speed. I'll give you it's not a pretty game or even a top tier shoot em up on the Genesis but it's way more fun than something like UN Squadron which is just more of the same thing over and over and just plagued with slowdown. I think where you are a graphics whore I'm a speed whore.
The sound argument is interesting and probably comes down to personal opinions. The SNES sounds like early 90s synth crap too me with over uses of the orchestral hit. There is some awesome sounding music on the Genesis. The entire soundtrack to Midnight Resistance for example and not one orchestral hit!
Have you played through all of Steel Empire? It gets better as you go on. Especially the underground levels were you loop back at double speed. I'll give you it's not a pretty game or even a top tier shoot em up on the Genesis but it's way more fun than something like UN Squadron which is just more of the same thing over and over and just plagued with slowdown. I think where you are a graphics whore I'm a speed whore.
The sound argument is interesting and probably comes down to personal opinions. The SNES sounds like early 90s synth crap too me with over uses of the orchestral hit. There is some awesome sounding music on the Genesis. The entire soundtrack to Midnight Resistance for example and not one orchestral hit!
I've never played all the way through Steel Empire. I gave it a try a long time ago and it just didn't hold my interest. I played UN Squadron early on in the SNES' life and loved it. It's not the most intense shooter but I love the graphics and music. I also enjoyed being able to get different aircraft with different capabilities which was unique and not in the arcade game. I remember reading about Gaiares in EGM and expecting it to be amazing but being underwhelmed. Gley Lancer was cool because it had some great music and good gameplay but there were so many run of the mill shooters without anything unique to them. I guess I didn't mind the slowdown that much and it wasn't in all the games. Been a while since I've played them but I don't recall any slowdown in Axelay, Contra III, Cybernator, or Space Megaforce. It was quite bad in Super R-Type and Gradius III but I still love them.
I'll admit that there was a lot of crappy sounding synth stuff on the SNES but in the right hands it was amazing. Yuzo Koshiro was good in Streets of Rage but amazing in Super Adventure Island and Actraiser. Castlevania IV, Axelay, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy II & III, Space Megaforce, Star Fox, etc. There is some good Genesis stuff, like Midnight Resistance, the first level of Gley Lancer is amazing, and some other stuff. Like you said, a lot of it is personal preference. A few of my favorites:
Have you played through all of Steel Empire? It gets better as you go on. Especially the underground levels were you loop back at double speed. I'll give you it's not a pretty game or even a top tier shoot em up on the Genesis but it's way more fun than something like UN Squadron which is just more of the same thing over and over and just plagued with slowdown. I think where you are a graphics whore I'm a speed whore.
The sound argument is interesting and probably comes down to personal opinions. The SNES sounds like early 90s synth crap too me with over uses of the orchestral hit. There is some awesome sounding music on the Genesis. The entire soundtrack to Midnight Resistance for example and not one orchestral hit!
I've never played all the way through Steel Empire. I gave it a try a long time ago and it just didn't hold my interest. I played UN Squadron early on in the SNES' life and loved it. It's not the most intense shooter but I love the graphics and music. I also enjoyed being able to get different aircraft with different capabilities which was unique and not in the arcade game. I remember reading about Gaiares in EGM and expecting it to be amazing but being underwhelmed. Gley Lancer was cool because it had some great music and good gameplay but there were so many run of the mill shooters without anything unique to them. I guess I didn't mind the slowdown that much and it wasn't in all the games. Been a while since I've played them but I don't recall any slowdown in Axelay, Contra III, Cybernator, or Space Megaforce. It was quite bad in Super R-Type and Gradius III but I still love them.
I'll admit that there was a lot of crappy sounding synth stuff on the SNES but in the right hands it was amazing. Yuzo Koshiro was good in Streets of Rage but amazing in Super Adventure Island and Actraiser. Castlevania IV, Axelay, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy II & III, Space Megaforce, Star Fox, etc. There is some good Genesis stuff, like Midnight Resistance, the first level of Gley Lancer is amazing, and some other stuff. Like you said, a lot of it is personal preference. A few of my favorites:
You're talking about being underwhelmed by Gaiaries on the Genesis right? That was one I never owned back in the day but loaded up on my Everdrive a few weeks ago and was just expecting it to be killer but I had the same reaction. Genesis had some crappy shoot em ups too. But there were like twice as many on the Genesis compared to the SNES so I guess that's expected. But the good ones on the Genesis... damn. There's a reason they fetch high prices on ebay.
Contra III has the slow down. It's certainly not as bad as Super R Type. But it's there. It's more noticable if you go Contra Hard Corp to Contra III.
Hmmm. I think our tastes in "good" video game music are just different. I don't like the whistle sounds in Super Adventure Island. The SNES excelled at the more fun cutesy music. M.u.s.h.a, Midnight Resistance, and some of Streets Of Rage 2 could be played by a metal band today and still sound right.
Yeah, I guess it comes down to taste. SNES games seemed to feature more orchestral music than the Genesis but there were some good SNES rock tunes, namely Final Fantasy Mysic Quest. I bought the OST from Game Cave years ago and still have it. Here are a few choice tracks:
There are actually some good rock covers of these on Youtube.
4(5?) day old bump, but the SNES is brutally murdered by it's own hilariously slow CPU, especially since I'm a shmup guy. If I didn't have an affinity for shooting things, then the SNES would fare better IMO, but the crippling speed limitation becomes far too apparent on some multiplatform titles.
It's a shame, too, since NES equivalents of some SNES games can run much smoother than the SNES games. I dare say that the pirated SF2 games run much better than the SNES ones, despite how poorly programmed they are. Like I said before, the only game on the SNES that seems to ignore the slow CPU is Contra III.
4(5?) day old bump, but the SNES is brutally murdered by it's own hilariously slow CPU, especially since I'm a shmup guy. If I didn't have an affinity for shooting things, then the SNES would fare better IMO, but the crippling speed limitation becomes far too apparent on some multiplatform titles.
It's a shame, too, since NES equivalents of some SNES games can run much smoother than the SNES games. I dare say that the pirated SF2 games run much better than the SNES ones, despite how poorly programmed they are. Like I said before, the only game on the SNES that seems to ignore the slow CPU is Contra III.
Hmm, if memory serves me right Axelay, Macross, and Space Megaforce were free of slowdown. Not sure about Cybernator, been a long time since I played it. I'll take the graphic prowess of the SNES with a little slowdown in the early games over what the Genesis had to offer anyday. Don't get me wrong, Genesis had some good games, but I'll take the SNES and PC Engine over it.
Too bad that idea is total crap because of the SuperFX chip that made the Gennys 68K look like a bad joke if they needed it. And a 7 point somethingMhz 68K is only up to par with a 65816 at 3.58Mhz in very, very complex equations, which would only be the case in very rare situations. In fact, doing such serious calculations for enemies in my opinion would be TERRIBLE programming. So really, the CPU wasn't even a huge factor. The honest huge factor is one that more arcade shmup programmers already were very, VERY familiar with the 68K when the SNES and Genny were released, so companies like Capcom and others that made fighters and Shmups already had experience with similar hardware, same processor, and the result was more games in that genre, leading to overall better selection. But it's not anything to do with hardware being crap, it's with hardware experience within the companies.
Comments
I couldn't get into the SNES back in the day. The Genesis was king of my two favorite genres of games. Run & Gunners and Shmups. Most games from those two genres were plagued with slow down on the SNES. For example, any Thunderforce game on the Genesis vs. Thunder Spirits on the SNES. I loved Super Mario Bros, Gradius, Contra, Metroid, Zelda, etc on the the NES but just couldn't get into their 16-bit counterparts.
I still can't get into the SNES today. I realize it excels at RPGs but I never liked those and I don't have the time to devote to getting into any of those games for an extended period of time. Too much text reading and grinding.
Originally posted by: RyuHayabusa
I'll take Axelay and Contra III over anything on the Genesis. Genesis had a lot of good shooters and run and gun games but I still prefer the SNES, especially if you factor in import titles like Parodius and Macross. I do love Gley Lancer though.
Interesting. Contra III is a good one, but so is Contra Hard Corp. I'd have trouble picking one over the other acutally and I'd probably pick the orignal Contra on the NES as my favorite Contra title. But for run and gunners the SNES can't even keep up. Try Doom Troopers on the Genesis then play it on the SNES. Can you say, "S-L-O-W-D-O-W-N"
I have to give the Genesis the edge as far as run and gunners go. Mercs, Midnight Resistance, and the grand daddy of em all...Gunstar Heroes. There's nothing even like that on the SNES.
Axelay is fun but I'd pick Thunder Force 2, 3, or 4 on the Genesis over Axelay, and as great as the Thunder Force 2, 3,4, are or Bio Hazard Battle, or Steel Empire(I could go on and on with good shoot em ups on the Genesis) the Genesis has an ace up it's sleeve in this genre too... M.U.S.H.A.
Ryu, I think you're the first person I've conversed with who gives the nod to the SNES with regards to shoot em' ups when compared to the Genesis. Which is cool. We all like what we like. I'll agree with you though that the PC Engine has both beat.
There's a site that covers a majority of the shoot em ups for each console. http://www.shmups.com/xenocidefiles.html
Check it out if you haven't. You could emulate, but I filled my SNES PowerPak and Sega Everdrive flash cart with all the shmups and tried em' out on original hardware. In comparing the two the lag and slow down on more than half of the SNES shmups is laughable. That just sucks all the fun out of those games for me.
I enjoyed the overhead levels on Contra III EXCEPT for the boss on the desert stage that has you spinning around all over the place. The rest of the game is just amazing to me. The graphics and sound are amazing, the bosses are super intense, and there were so many cool ideas like hanging from the missles, speeder bikes, etc. Contra Hard Corps was awesome too, and much more difficult, but I'll take Contra III.
The sound argument is interesting and probably comes down to personal opinions. The SNES sounds like early 90s synth crap too me with over uses of the orchestral hit. There is some awesome sounding music on the Genesis. The entire soundtrack to Midnight Resistance for example and not one orchestral hit!
Originally posted by: stillplayingnes
Have you played through all of Steel Empire? It gets better as you go on. Especially the underground levels were you loop back at double speed. I'll give you it's not a pretty game or even a top tier shoot em up on the Genesis but it's way more fun than something like UN Squadron which is just more of the same thing over and over and just plagued with slowdown. I think where you are a graphics whore I'm a speed whore.
The sound argument is interesting and probably comes down to personal opinions. The SNES sounds like early 90s synth crap too me with over uses of the orchestral hit. There is some awesome sounding music on the Genesis. The entire soundtrack to Midnight Resistance for example and not one orchestral hit!
I've never played all the way through Steel Empire. I gave it a try a long time ago and it just didn't hold my interest. I played UN Squadron early on in the SNES' life and loved it. It's not the most intense shooter but I love the graphics and music. I also enjoyed being able to get different aircraft with different capabilities which was unique and not in the arcade game. I remember reading about Gaiares in EGM and expecting it to be amazing but being underwhelmed. Gley Lancer was cool because it had some great music and good gameplay but there were so many run of the mill shooters without anything unique to them. I guess I didn't mind the slowdown that much and it wasn't in all the games. Been a while since I've played them but I don't recall any slowdown in Axelay, Contra III, Cybernator, or Space Megaforce. It was quite bad in Super R-Type and Gradius III but I still love them.
I'll admit that there was a lot of crappy sounding synth stuff on the SNES but in the right hands it was amazing. Yuzo Koshiro was good in Streets of Rage but amazing in Super Adventure Island and Actraiser. Castlevania IV, Axelay, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy II & III, Space Megaforce, Star Fox, etc. There is some good Genesis stuff, like Midnight Resistance, the first level of Gley Lancer is amazing, and some other stuff. Like you said, a lot of it is personal preference. A few of my favorites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_750uRrLVuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsfPv9VZZQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftIM9UkxyPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WPs91E9qu8
Originally posted by: RyuHayabusa
Originally posted by: stillplayingnes
Have you played through all of Steel Empire? It gets better as you go on. Especially the underground levels were you loop back at double speed. I'll give you it's not a pretty game or even a top tier shoot em up on the Genesis but it's way more fun than something like UN Squadron which is just more of the same thing over and over and just plagued with slowdown. I think where you are a graphics whore I'm a speed whore.
The sound argument is interesting and probably comes down to personal opinions. The SNES sounds like early 90s synth crap too me with over uses of the orchestral hit. There is some awesome sounding music on the Genesis. The entire soundtrack to Midnight Resistance for example and not one orchestral hit!
I've never played all the way through Steel Empire. I gave it a try a long time ago and it just didn't hold my interest. I played UN Squadron early on in the SNES' life and loved it. It's not the most intense shooter but I love the graphics and music. I also enjoyed being able to get different aircraft with different capabilities which was unique and not in the arcade game. I remember reading about Gaiares in EGM and expecting it to be amazing but being underwhelmed. Gley Lancer was cool because it had some great music and good gameplay but there were so many run of the mill shooters without anything unique to them. I guess I didn't mind the slowdown that much and it wasn't in all the games. Been a while since I've played them but I don't recall any slowdown in Axelay, Contra III, Cybernator, or Space Megaforce. It was quite bad in Super R-Type and Gradius III but I still love them.
I'll admit that there was a lot of crappy sounding synth stuff on the SNES but in the right hands it was amazing. Yuzo Koshiro was good in Streets of Rage but amazing in Super Adventure Island and Actraiser. Castlevania IV, Axelay, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy II & III, Space Megaforce, Star Fox, etc. There is some good Genesis stuff, like Midnight Resistance, the first level of Gley Lancer is amazing, and some other stuff. Like you said, a lot of it is personal preference. A few of my favorites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_750uRrLVuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsfPv9VZZQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftIM9UkxyPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WPs91E9qu8
You're talking about being underwhelmed by Gaiaries on the Genesis right? That was one I never owned back in the day but loaded up on my Everdrive a few weeks ago and was just expecting it to be killer but I had the same reaction. Genesis had some crappy shoot em ups too. But there were like twice as many on the Genesis compared to the SNES so I guess that's expected. But the good ones on the Genesis... damn. There's a reason they fetch high prices on ebay.
Contra III has the slow down. It's certainly not as bad as Super R Type. But it's there. It's more noticable if you go Contra Hard Corp to Contra III.
Hmmm. I think our tastes in "good" video game music are just different. I don't like the whistle sounds in Super Adventure Island. The SNES excelled at the more fun cutesy music. M.u.s.h.a, Midnight Resistance, and some of Streets Of Rage 2 could be played by a metal band today and still sound right.
There are actually some good rock covers of these on Youtube.
It's a shame, too, since NES equivalents of some SNES games can run much smoother than the SNES games. I dare say that the pirated SF2 games run much better than the SNES ones, despite how poorly programmed they are. Like I said before, the only game on the SNES that seems to ignore the slow CPU is Contra III.
Originally posted by: Luigi_Master
4(5?) day old bump, but the SNES is brutally murdered by it's own hilariously slow CPU, especially since I'm a shmup guy. If I didn't have an affinity for shooting things, then the SNES would fare better IMO, but the crippling speed limitation becomes far too apparent on some multiplatform titles.
It's a shame, too, since NES equivalents of some SNES games can run much smoother than the SNES games. I dare say that the pirated SF2 games run much better than the SNES ones, despite how poorly programmed they are. Like I said before, the only game on the SNES that seems to ignore the slow CPU is Contra III.
Hmm, if memory serves me right Axelay, Macross, and Space Megaforce were free of slowdown. Not sure about Cybernator, been a long time since I played it. I'll take the graphic prowess of the SNES with a little slowdown in the early games over what the Genesis had to offer anyday. Don't get me wrong, Genesis had some good games, but I'll take the SNES and PC Engine over it.