Yo! Noid was programmed by "Now Productions", who also programmed "Adventure Island 2" and "Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu". They also developed "Splatterhouse", too, so they were a fairly competent developer.
I just listed the one I really like. I guess I could have added (among others) or something. But since that was just an example and not really the main point I didn't give that train of thought any more coal than I figured was necessary.
Yo! Noid is definitely not Shovelware. Waldo and Color a Dinosaur, definitely.
Yo Noid is a strange bird. It basically just a reskin of Ninja Hanamaru meant to sell pizzas. While not a bad game it definitely has a minimal effort vibe and cash-in mentality, just not in the tradition of shovelware.
According to UD, Shovelware is "Software that is hastily made, without proper testing, and 'shoveled' down consumers throats in order to make some quick cash". Most NES games that I recall aren't hastily made, but one developer, Micronics, was known for being paid bottom dollar to port popular arcade games, and usually done so quickly. They also weren't properly tested, as they feature some bugs that would make anyone scratch their head as to how they did it.
Looking at Micronics' lineup, yeah I can see what you mean, it's pretty heavy on the shoddy ports. Some of them sold really well, so I guess they were successful shovelers. But, a couple are held in pretty high esteem. Even though they're clunky versions, they're clunky versions of great games. Like, you might catch some flack for suggesting Ghosts'n Goblins or 1942 are shovelware.
Ironic, since even though 1942 is regarded as a bad NES title, I think it's their least glitchy port, as nothing unusual pops up for no real reason.
It's such a crying shame, too, since GnG had the most potential of being reworked into being a great port. However, their programming is arguably the most confusing there is, as it consists almost entirely of subroutine jumps, making disassembly of their games anything short of impossible. In Layman's terms, their code forgot to take their ADHD medicine.
There's also TOSE, though their quality varies from game (MUSCLE) to game (Toxic Crusaders), they fall under shovelware. They're nowhere near as crummy as Micronics when it comes to coding, though.
lol, if Ghosts and Goblins is shovelware then the term loses all meaning
Normally when I think shovelware for modern systems, I think a company is shovelware, and they don't mix, make a couple shovelware titles here, a couple classics there. (In that case I would consider the shovelware titles "misses") but maybe thats just me
Shovelware may have been around, but it was nowhere near as bad as it is today.
If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo limited the number of games a publisher could release in a year.
Think of the Wii. The library for it is about double the library for the NES and it's still going.
Shovelware usually refers to stuff like the compilations where they cram as many games on a CD as possible, or like on the DS where there are a ton of those "Imagine" and "Petz" games.
Could I take a peak at your source for GnG? I'd love to see this. Most games have a ton of code that's the main engine and is just a few checks, a JSR, a few checks, JSR, etc. I know Battle Kids (Not the best example of good programming, but it works) demo which I was looking into some had a ton in a row at one point, my programs do have a few JSR's in a row a LOT of the time, and any reasonably good programers will have those. You probably shouldn't talk about games programming before you have a decent disassembly, you release anything and get some experience creating programs first, and finally; understand the concept behind it. Just thought I'd say this little piece of advice. Subroutined code/functions is more than likely good programming, not bad.
3Gen: I remember trying to hack GNG to run much better (to be fair, you can achieve that with a GG code), but everything was out of sync badly, or things moved too fast. Some guys by the names of Dr. Floppy and Bioship both mentioned incessant sub jumps, and how making a dissassembly of just that game would be tedious.
Luigi, that's not coding deficiency. I can tell just by screwing with the GG codes it's a value in the ROM used to speed up/slow down gameplay to get the difficult within a reasonable realm. Whoever told you whatever they did tell you, I wouldn't listen to anything they say.
Action 52 would probably qualify- those games are all pretty terrible aren't they? Likewise for Caltron 6-in-1. Cheetahmen II would also be a candidate even though the release fell through. You can't actually beat that game due to programming issues.
The Color Dreams games don't really fit the shovelware theme from what I've seen. While they vary in quality, they do seem like someone was making a legitimate attempt at a decent product. They were even working on the souped up Hellraiser game, which is about the exact opposite of shovelware.
And just as a note, shovelware does not exclude popular licenses. Look at Pac-Man for the 2600- development cycle of like 6 weeks to make the holiday sales season, and a terrible product to show for it.
The only thing that I would think would take Action 52 out of the category is price. It was $200. With inflation that's like a gazillion dollars!
I don't know the original price of pirate games, but there are a ton of pirate multi-carts. Although I don't know if I would count them, since they are actually just other games stolen.
Crade: GNG, surprisingly, doesn't have any true slow down! What the game does have is very jerky scrolling, which would give anyone a headache.
3Gen: That's true, but what I wanted to do was "speed up" the game, but somethings were thrown off. When you beat the boss, the victory music doesn't play. Some enemies travel too fast to properly react to them, and some more. What I wanted to do was change some values around so that the game moves faster without screwing everything else up. Turns out, especially with this game, it's not as easy as you'd think. You are more than free to prove me and anyone else wrong by studying the game annd hacking it.
I'd define shovelware as a game that's absolute garbage. So bad that it's absolutely no fun to play; boring, broken controls, just all around TERRIBLE, with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And, under that definition, the "game" that comes to mind for me is...wait for it...
That game is great. I don't think it's glitchy at all, someone got a video of the glitches?
Too be sure, I wouldn't call it "Shovelware", and it's still a decent and fun game to play, but this was an early game, maybe even the first vertical scrolling shooter for the NES? But the crudeness shows for sure, definitely not "Great" IMO
And also, I'm not sure if you are joking or confusing it with 1943, during the NA 1942 contest, I discussed quite a few of the glitches. Being a big fan of 1943, which IS a Great game, this one pales in comparison.
Here is a quick list of what I can remember.
The big ones:
1. Bullets randomly fire, no rhyme or reason to when you are pushing the fire button. Although it won't fire if you are not pressing for sure. Button mashing, does not give you as many shots as you'd hope. And sometimes you press fire, hoping to kill a plane inches right in front of you, but nothing happens, and you die. All the same, the best strategy is to press the fire button as much as you can and hope for the best.
2. Enemy Planes sometimes disappear, or sometimes fly completely invisibly accross their entire path
no exageration, I would say 4 out of 10 of my deaths were by invisible planes during the NA contest. I recorded all my attempts, and taped reviewed the deaths. Most of the time this ruined a LONG run, so ya, not cool.
3. On most levels, even if you shoot down every single plane, due to a glitch in the calculations, you will not get the 100% bonus. The only way to get it on a few levels is to kill yourself on purpose, to replay a portion of the level and gather more kills. I asked Tom Votava the TG record holder, after constantly getting 96, even if I shot down every friggen plane, and he told me the secret. Too bad, that wouldn't help me, since it was a "1 life" contest, LOL.
4. When you get the wingmen upgrade, sometimes they die before they even get to you.
5. Your plane is "jerky" and not totally responsive, especially doing the loop de loop.
6. Sometimes the bonus planes ( the ones that fly quickly on the edge of the screen) come when you are fighting the boss planes, so you can't even get them, although it doesn't happen that often, and isn't a big deal.
,
7. Not really a "glitch" but the annoying "beep" "beep" Morris code-like soundtrack.
From my experience having owned 1942 since it came out I can clearly remember all but the last two of those on the list. It's why I tend to play 1942 less than 1943. Well that, and I like how it mixes things up a bit too.
lol, if Ghosts and Goblins is shovelware then the term loses all meaning
For real. I love that game. Definitely not Shovelware.
Another game that comes to mind: Taboo. It's not even a game. But it is made of good quality. So technically not Shovelware, but still. Pretty pointless. The main selling point? Curiosity.
I always thought of shovelware as basically beign intentionally crappy... Software with tiny budget that is just flooding the market in the hopes that someone will buy it, and was never intended to good at all. I don't think the NES really had that, they might have had bad games, but I think they were failed attempts to make something good, not intentional crap.
Yeah I don't see most if any of these games listed for the NES so far as shovelware. The games I thought were shovelware were those massive amounts of $10 Wii games that are the same game over and over again Like Fun Party Game 7, Crazy Fitness 2, Carnival Game Collection, Egyptian Puzzle Quest, Cooking Crazy tour of France Edition. Basically the most generic games in the world with many sequels or fake sequels to a good game, or games riding off the success of the fitness craze, ETC.
I don't really consider a movie license, a real world brand board game or game show adaptation, or unlicensed games as being shovelware.
I thought shovelware meant a whole bunch of cheap games being shoveled down your throat.
What about Tengen? not only were they unlicensed versions early on but most of the games were really bad [excluding gauntlet!]
And yes Taboo is pointless....its a tarot game with absolutely no plot....just random cards!! had that game years ago when you could buy it from a bargain bin at k-mart.
Shovelware can also mean poorly done ports and/or repackaging the same product in a different format in the hopes of generating sales.
Here's a good one: The Last Starfighter. Its a crappy port of a completely unrelated C64 game with a movie license slapped on, so it manages to touch all the bases.
Tengen games? Other than Skull & Crossbones I can't think of much they really screwed up so bad as to come anything near being shovelware. They had some really nice Atari(them), Sega, and Namco titles they shoved out.
I second the Last Starfighter, ugh. I didn't have the C64 version of it, but the PC one and it was called Uridium. Back on those older systems it was a fun game, but in porting and hacking the name into it and a sprite change on the ship they broke the flow of the gameplay so bad it's nearly impossible to play. Stuff comes in so fast on the ground and above and the ship moves faster too so it's luck if you get anywhere in it.
Comments
Originally posted by: HoldinJohnson
Originally posted by: SamSpade
I think of shit like color a dinosaur, Waldo, Cool Spot, hell, even Yo Noid.
Color a Dinosaur. Best. Game. Ever.
Yo! Noid is definitely not Shovelware. Waldo and Color a Dinosaur, definitely.
Originally posted by: Luigi_Master
OSG: Actually, Westone developed the first Wonderboy game, and every subsequent one. Sega just owns the WB license.
Y--
Yes. Yes, I know.
Maybe I'm not being clear enough or something.
Originally posted by: Nightowljrm
Yo! Noid is definitely not Shovelware. Waldo and Color a Dinosaur, definitely.
Yo Noid is a strange bird. It basically just a reskin of Ninja Hanamaru meant to sell pizzas. While not a bad game it definitely has a minimal effort vibe and cash-in mentality, just not in the tradition of shovelware.
(not from me)
It's such a crying shame, too, since GnG had the most potential of being reworked into being a great port. However, their programming is arguably the most confusing there is, as it consists almost entirely of subroutine jumps, making disassembly of their games anything short of impossible. In Layman's terms, their code forgot to take their ADHD medicine.
There's also TOSE, though their quality varies from game (MUSCLE) to game (Toxic Crusaders), they fall under shovelware. They're nowhere near as crummy as Micronics when it comes to coding, though.
Normally when I think shovelware for modern systems, I think a company is shovelware, and they don't mix, make a couple shovelware titles here, a couple classics there. (In that case I would consider the shovelware titles "misses") but maybe thats just me
That game is great. I don't think it's glitchy at all, someone got a video of the glitches?
If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo limited the number of games a publisher could release in a year.
Think of the Wii. The library for it is about double the library for the NES and it's still going.
Shovelware usually refers to stuff like the compilations where they cram as many games on a CD as possible, or like on the DS where there are a ton of those "Imagine" and "Petz" games.
(while the system they are on is still current gen)
Imagine: Animal Doctor
Imagine: Artist
Imagine: Babies
Imagine: Baby Club
Imagine: Babysitters
Imagine: Ballet Star
Imagine: Boutique Owner
Imagine: Champion Rider
Imagine: Cheerleader
Imagine: Detective
Imagine: Family Doctor
Imagine: Fashion Designer
Imagine: Fashion Designer New York
Imagine: Fashion Designer World Tour
Imagine: Fashion Model
Imagine: Figure Skater
Imagine: Gymnast
Imagine: Ice Champions
Imagine: Interior Designer
Imagine: Makeup Artist
Imagine: Master Chef
Imagine: Modern Dancer
Imagine: Movie Star
Imagine: Music Fest
Imagine: Rock Star
Imagine: Salon Stylist
Imagine: Soccer Captain
Imagine: Teacher
Imagine: Teacher Class Trip
Imagine: Wedding Designer
The Color Dreams games don't really fit the shovelware theme from what I've seen. While they vary in quality, they do seem like someone was making a legitimate attempt at a decent product. They were even working on the souped up Hellraiser game, which is about the exact opposite of shovelware.
And just as a note, shovelware does not exclude popular licenses. Look at Pac-Man for the 2600- development cycle of like 6 weeks to make the holiday sales season, and a terrible product to show for it.
I don't know the original price of pirate games, but there are a ton of pirate multi-carts. Although I don't know if I would count them, since they are actually just other games stolen.
3Gen: That's true, but what I wanted to do was "speed up" the game, but somethings were thrown off. When you beat the boss, the victory music doesn't play. Some enemies travel too fast to properly react to them, and some more. What I wanted to do was change some values around so that the game moves faster without screwing everything else up. Turns out, especially with this game, it's not as easy as you'd think. You are more than free to prove me and anyone else wrong by studying the game annd hacking it.
XENOMORPH
Absolutely rock-bottom.
Originally posted by: Paul
1942 glitchy? I disagree.
That game is great. I don't think it's glitchy at all, someone got a video of the glitches?
Too be sure, I wouldn't call it "Shovelware", and it's still a decent and fun game to play, but this was an early game, maybe even the first vertical scrolling shooter for the NES? But the crudeness shows for sure, definitely not "Great" IMO
And also, I'm not sure if you are joking or confusing it with 1943, during the NA 1942 contest, I discussed quite a few of the glitches. Being a big fan of 1943, which IS a Great game, this one pales in comparison.
Here is a quick list of what I can remember.
The big ones:
1. Bullets randomly fire, no rhyme or reason to when you are pushing the fire button. Although it won't fire if you are not pressing for sure. Button mashing, does not give you as many shots as you'd hope. And sometimes you press fire, hoping to kill a plane inches right in front of you, but nothing happens, and you die. All the same, the best strategy is to press the fire button as much as you can and hope for the best.
2. Enemy Planes sometimes disappear, or sometimes fly completely invisibly accross their entire path
no exageration, I would say 4 out of 10 of my deaths were by invisible planes during the NA contest. I recorded all my attempts, and taped reviewed the deaths. Most of the time this ruined a LONG run, so ya, not cool.
3. On most levels, even if you shoot down every single plane, due to a glitch in the calculations, you will not get the 100% bonus. The only way to get it on a few levels is to kill yourself on purpose, to replay a portion of the level and gather more kills. I asked Tom Votava the TG record holder, after constantly getting 96, even if I shot down every friggen plane, and he told me the secret. Too bad, that wouldn't help me, since it was a "1 life" contest, LOL.
4. When you get the wingmen upgrade, sometimes they die before they even get to you.
5. Your plane is "jerky" and not totally responsive, especially doing the loop de loop.
6. Sometimes the bonus planes ( the ones that fly quickly on the edge of the screen) come when you are fighting the boss planes, so you can't even get them, although it doesn't happen that often, and isn't a big deal.
,
7. Not really a "glitch" but the annoying "beep" "beep" Morris code-like soundtrack.
Originally posted by: cradelit
lol, if Ghosts and Goblins is shovelware then the term loses all meaning
For real. I love that game. Definitely not Shovelware.
Another game that comes to mind: Taboo. It's not even a game. But it is made of good quality. So technically not Shovelware, but still. Pretty pointless. The main selling point? Curiosity.
Originally posted by: cradelit
I always thought of shovelware as basically beign intentionally crappy... Software with tiny budget that is just flooding the market in the hopes that someone will buy it, and was never intended to good at all. I don't think the NES really had that, they might have had bad games, but I think they were failed attempts to make something good, not intentional crap.
Yeah I don't see most if any of these games listed for the NES so far as shovelware. The games I thought were shovelware were those massive amounts of $10 Wii games that are the same game over and over again Like Fun Party Game 7, Crazy Fitness 2, Carnival Game Collection, Egyptian Puzzle Quest, Cooking Crazy tour of France Edition. Basically the most generic games in the world with many sequels or fake sequels to a good game, or games riding off the success of the fitness craze, ETC.
I don't really consider a movie license, a real world brand board game or game show adaptation, or unlicensed games as being shovelware.
I thought shovelware meant a whole bunch of cheap games being shoveled down your throat.
And yes Taboo is pointless....its a tarot game with absolutely no plot....just random cards!! had that game years ago when you could buy it from a bargain bin at k-mart.
Here's a good one: The Last Starfighter. Its a crappy port of a completely unrelated C64 game with a movie license slapped on, so it manages to touch all the bases.
I second the Last Starfighter, ugh. I didn't have the C64 version of it, but the PC one and it was called Uridium. Back on those older systems it was a fun game, but in porting and hacking the name into it and a sprite change on the ship they broke the flow of the gameplay so bad it's nearly impossible to play. Stuff comes in so fast on the ground and above and the ship moves faster too so it's luck if you get anywhere in it.