Just found out a couple of days ago we may be pregnant, so this would make for a great night light in the babies room. Ill have to keep my fingures crossed for both the test results and the game.
What kind of crystal are these LEDs functioning on? You know that it's probably likely they'll degrade in time and if anyone is stupid enough to pay $700 for one it was a total waste. Depends partially on the crystal, but if these things generate enough heat over an extended time forget that thing working after awhile. There's my post of hatred, if I win one I'll piss on it.
^^^ I agree. That's right in the neighborhood of 4x the price of the regular cart. Not unreasonable for something that only has a handful of copies available.
I think this whole thing is a really smart way for bunnyboy to defray the upfront costs associated with the CIB run of the main game, though.
What kind of crystal are these LEDs functioning on? You know that it's probably likely they'll degrade in time and if anyone is stupid enough to pay $700 for one it was a total waste. Depends partially on the crystal, but if these things generate enough heat over an extended time forget that thing working after awhile. There's my post of hatred, if I win one I'll piss on it.
Hmm, yeah something tells me you wont be winning...
What kind of crystal are these LEDs functioning on? You know that it's probably likely they'll degrade in time and if anyone is stupid enough to pay $700 for one it was a total waste. Depends partially on the crystal, but if these things generate enough heat over an extended time forget that thing working after awhile. There's my post of hatred, if I win one I'll piss on it.
Took long enough, but seriously the degradation of the LEDs is the best you can come up with?
These are Avago (spin off of Agilent, spin off of HP) mixed crystal AlInGaP (aluminum indium gallium phosphor) lattice LEDs grown on a conductive GaAs (gallium arsenide) substrate wafer. Resistive layers of AlInP help to restrict the light production to the p-n junction which boosts efficiency. Depositing an insulating layer of GaP with a viewing window cuts down on the off axis luminous intensity. 4 LEDs are used in the cart to account for the ~30 degree spread, each with around 2000mcd. By running the forward current at ~20mA they are easily within the extended lifetime and will generate no significant heat. If you are worried about heat you better undervolt your NES power supply because the spreader on the 7805 gets hot to the touch. As the p-n bandgap junction breaks down with use the LED will dim. For a typical AlInGaP LED that is in the range of 60-70% as bright after 100,000 hours of continuous use at the maximum rated peak current. The rated current of these is 50mA so by only using 20mA they should be around 80% total brightness after 100,000 hours of continuous use. So after 11 years of your system being turned on non stop, you may notice they are dimmer. Datasheets simply don't have specs beyond 100,000 hours, but following the log graph it would take about 10,000,000 hours (1,141 years) for the LEDs to be half as bright as they are now. By then you will likely have a few more problems like the total decomposition of the label. Contact me in 3149AD for a free replacement of the LEDs, but keep your receipt for proof of purchase
I can't believe you actually took the time to respond to that, obviously I was being a dick, I wouldn't expect you to put a shitty LED in something like this, and even shitty ones last a heck of a long time. But yes, everyone knows my opinion on this, I don't think it's right to do something like this. Why not just make them all light up and sell them for more than you would a typical release like you've been doing? Oh yeah, to make cash. It's just my opinion though, I simply find it unethical to take advantage of the market like that when the main idea should be for you to make your cost, a little more, and then provide a cool thing for the community. This eBay shit is retarded. And why's his post so FUNNY? Oh, I see, it's because you think he devastated me with knowledge I do not possess. No, in fact he wasted his time writing all of that because I could care less, I was being a dick, as usual, and I do know about electronics. So if you found it funny because you thought he 'kicked my mental ass' forget it and go back to being a poseur uber Eli73 fagg87. At least I have fodder for a future comic.
My snipe for a LE cart was at about $85 bucks and even that I thought was very high. Looks like I'll have to live with a regular release cart when it comes out.
Of course he wants to turn a profit on this project. I don't see anything at all wrong with letting market forces do their work for a limited quantity item with proven novelty. I think it's a very smart move since they were guaranteed to go for at least the price of a standard cart + cost of modification, and were almost certain to be more profitable than that, as has been shown.
I'm not sure why you disagree with the obvious business sense that this move makes for bunnyboy.
If LE carts (ex. all the numbered releases of the other homebrews) are proven to carry greater value than the general release, and people are lining up for them, why shouldn't the original author make that profit instead of some jackass who happened to be first in line for the product?
I think Stan's belief is that the old-crew collectors not only shared information freely, but supported each other in terms of their actual collections with little or no regard to profit. If you got a duplicate Caltron for $10 and your bud still needed one, you'd pay it forward.
It's a little different dynamic when there's a collector who now creates new merchandise, but I think he still asserts that even if it's new, and the person has built a business around it, that there should still be slim or no profit margins because, he asserts, that's how it "should be."
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just to clarify since I think I understand what he's trying to say.
Why not just make them all light up and sell them for more than you would a typical release like you've been doing? Oh yeah, to make cash. ... This eBay shit is retarded.
They all don't have lights because its an extra $10 of parts plus ~30 mins of work for each cart, and even fewer people would pay $60 for the package instead of $42. Many already complain about the extra price the box/manual/insert adds. If it really was about making cash, I wouldn't give 5 carts away (forgot to add UncleTusk to the free list) or offer one for the normal price. Best idea would be to not have a production run at all and just slowly auction ~50 carts. That would easily make more profit than selling them on the website. I would love to use NintendoAge auctions instead of eBay to keep them here, but Dain is the programming genius for that part.
Originally posted by: Stan Stepanic
It's just my opinion though, I simply find it unethical to take advantage of the market like that when the main idea should be for you to make your cost, a little more, and then provide a cool thing for the community.
What would you consider "a little more" then? Just the game was 100-200 hours of coding, at typical beginner programmer rates here thats $6000-15000. To make back the low end I would have to sell 400+ carts, which simply isn't going to happen. Even if my time is completely worthless, the special edition carts on eBay are just now covering the cost of the carts I am giving away and the 3 rounds of prototype pcbs. There's no magical big money in this, and insulting the people who actually do bring new stuff will only drive them away. Maybe if you could accept that people should get paid for hard work then there would be more new stuff around here.
Most of your other previous complaints about gold Airball don't apply here. It's a completely legal release, no copyright infringement. It's a brand new homebrew, not an illegal unreleased pirate. It actually is more special instead of just a gold cart or a number slapped on. It is being sold primarily to collectors, I recognize at least 3 of the 4 top bidder names directly from here. This time I made twice as many so there is more supply, and more carts are going free directly to collectors (who are free to sell whenever they want, I have no problems with it). Your complaints about the stupidity of people still applies tho
You should really be focusing on the repro makers if you believe someone is taking advantage of the community. Airball at gamereproductions uses a ~$3 donor cart, one $2 memory chip, and a $0.50 label. Add 15 mins of soldering and cleaning, then sell for $27.50. Thats $22 of profit without him doing any work for the community. Can't believe you missed complaining about the Stadium Events repros too!
To reiterate to Stan: He runs a business, NOT a charity!
We as gamers and collectors want to support his BUSINESS as customers, paying him a perfectly reasonable amount of money (and as already stated by Bunnyboy, only mildly profitable) for his hard work and ingenuity.
The only point I don't agree completely on, is about the repro makers. I think it's a travesty that gamereproductions screwed the pooch by "re-pirating" airball, and hence making it wholely unappealing for you to do similar CIB releases in the future. I know there are a lot of us here that would have been happy to see more of these types of things. But I have no issue with them charging what they do for other repros that are already on the market. They fill a niche, and that is the price the market will pay. Leon K originally charged in the neighborhood of $45 PLUS the donor, and it was a deal at the time because back then the hardware to do it (chip programmers) were more expensive to obtain and thus the bar to entry was higher. Now that those guys have their initial hardware investment paid off, making one-off carts for $25, or so, is not unreasonable to most customers(again except for the fact that the douche-bag at gamereproductions crossed the line with airball).
Then again, I don't think any of us have a guess at what kind of volume those guys do. I doubt they make very many of anything that they sell, so there's absolutely no way that this could be their primary source of revenue.
But any way you cut it Stan's complaints are BS. Brand New products are something we're buying to support people NOW, and are not some exotic and lucky find "in the wild" that we would feel obliged to pass on to a fellow collector. He just comes off as extremely rude and acidic.
Waaaaa I coded for 200 hours waaaaaaa, you're selling games for a 20 year old dead system. You're going to take it in the ass one way or another. It's a labor of love, not a business. You can either go all out or approach it as a business - either way you're going to be in the red permanently.
I mean, he could have designed and released Glider as a flash game, and it would be worthless; another free applet you'd click thru online for five minutes and forget about.
But by putting it in a NES-sized case he gets to sell some for good money.
I think your being ridiculous Stan. Bunmyboy is spending lots of time and $$$ to release new games for the NES. No one else has ever done that. For one the NES is very hard to code for, so most people don't have the skill set. Two, it is VERY expensive to release a game CIB like this, we are talking like 4-5k, not kidding at all. Yes as portnoyd said this is a labor of love for bunnyboy, but he has to make some money or he can't keep making them for us all to enjoy. I for one love the Retrozone releases and think it is a great service for the community. If you don't like them then just don't bid or buy from him, end of story. Crapping on his thread and stirring up drama just serves no real point! If you are willing to put up YOUR cash and YOUR time to do something like this for the community then you have room to bitch about prices. You can sell yours for cost and just break even for hours and hours of work. It goes for anyone, if you don't like the service don't use it....but try to find anther place to get unreleased games for the NES in this day and age. I a guess I will wait for StanZone to open up. Be greatful for the hardwork instead of criticizing it. (end rant)
What a great way to get more developers into the system, work hard so you can lose money! If its just love then the money for new projects disappears very fast, and if its just business then there will never be new ideas. Only by being both is it sustainable. Stan's argument is that little or no money should be made, mine is to show that huge money isn't being made but still should be profitable, portnoyds seems to be that losing money is a requirement. Being in the red shouldn't have to be a requirement, or you will just see all new products stop pretty quick. Why is the NES not deserving of professional quality products, while other systems and hobbies are?
The repro maker comments are just there for a reference of how others already have significantly higher profit margins which are accepted without question, not that I think they are insane prices. After Leon made his first great reproductions 10 years ago it has been pretty stagnant, even small things like including manuals still hasn't been done. The old guard was unwilling to make an investment in the community, other than buying and selling protos. Even now it's those old collectors that are holding onto the protos, not "sharing the information". Perfectly understandable because once they do they will lose value. Fortunately it just seems the new crew of collectors and gamers has no problem paying for the advancement of the community and supporting other people's work. And it is those new people buying limited edition and production things that helps fund whatever product comes next.
I think your being ridiculous Stan. Bunmyboy is spending lots of time and $$$ to release new games for the NES. No one else has ever done that. For one the NES is very hard to code for, so most people don't have the skill set. Two, it is VERY expensive to release a game CIB like this, we are talking like 4-5k, not kidding at all. Yes as portnoyd said this is a labor of love for bunnyboy, but he has to make some money or he can't keep making them for us all to enjoy. I for one love the Retrozone releases and think it is a great service for the community. If you don't like them then just don't bid or buy from him, end of story. Crapping on his thread and stirring up drama just serves no real point! If you are willing to put up YOUR cash and YOUR time to do something like this for the community then you have room to bitch about prices. You can sell yours for cost and just break even for hours and hours of work. It goes for anyone, if you don't like the service don't use it....but try to find anther place to get unreleased games for the NES in this day and age. I a guess I will wait for StanZone to open up. Be greatful for the hardwork instead of criticizing it. (end rant) ~~NGD
Comments
That light up feature...and outside exposure....the buzz here....bet $700 for the highest one and $525 for the lower of the four
Seriously I hope you are kidding?
I want one too. I'll have to watch ebay. Did the first run of regular carts already sell out?
No they havent been released yet. Im assuming he is waiting for the special edition carts to find a home before releasing the standard version.
I think this whole thing is a really smart way for bunnyboy to defray the upfront costs associated with the CIB run of the main game, though.
There's my post of hatred, if I win one I'll piss on it.
WOW.......Just WOW!!!
What kind of crystal are these LEDs functioning on? You know that it's probably likely they'll degrade in time and if anyone is stupid enough to pay $700 for one it was a total waste. Depends partially on the crystal, but if these things generate enough heat over an extended time forget that thing working after awhile. There's my post of hatred, if I win one I'll piss on it.
Hmm, yeah something tells me you wont be winning...
What kind of crystal are these LEDs functioning on? You know that it's probably likely they'll degrade in time and if anyone is stupid enough to pay $700 for one it was a total waste. Depends partially on the crystal, but if these things generate enough heat over an extended time forget that thing working after awhile. There's my post of hatred, if I win one I'll piss on it.
Took long enough, but seriously the degradation of the LEDs is the best you can come up with?
Of course he wants to turn a profit on this project. I don't see anything at all wrong with letting market forces do their work for a limited quantity item with proven novelty. I think it's a very smart move since they were guaranteed to go for at least the price of a standard cart + cost of modification, and were almost certain to be more profitable than that, as has been shown.
I'm not sure why you disagree with the obvious business sense that this move makes for bunnyboy.
If LE carts (ex. all the numbered releases of the other homebrews) are proven to carry greater value than the general release, and people are lining up for them, why shouldn't the original author make that profit instead of some jackass who happened to be first in line for the product?
It's a little different dynamic when there's a collector who now creates new merchandise, but I think he still asserts that even if it's new, and the person has built a business around it, that there should still be slim or no profit margins because, he asserts, that's how it "should be."
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just to clarify since I think I understand what he's trying to say.
How about picking 113? That's always a luck number.
Why not just make them all light up and sell them for more than you would a typical release like you've been doing? Oh yeah, to make cash. ... This eBay shit is retarded.
They all don't have lights because its an extra $10 of parts plus ~30 mins of work for each cart, and even fewer people would pay $60 for the package instead of $42. Many already complain about the extra price the box/manual/insert adds. If it really was about making cash, I wouldn't give 5 carts away (forgot to add UncleTusk to the free list) or offer one for the normal price. Best idea would be to not have a production run at all and just slowly auction ~50 carts. That would easily make more profit than selling them on the website. I would love to use NintendoAge auctions instead of eBay to keep them here, but Dain is the programming genius for that part.
It's just my opinion though, I simply find it unethical to take advantage of the market like that when the main idea should be for you to make your cost, a little more, and then provide a cool thing for the community.
To reiterate to Stan: He runs a business, NOT a charity!
We as gamers and collectors want to support his BUSINESS as customers, paying him a perfectly reasonable amount of money (and as already stated by Bunnyboy, only mildly profitable) for his hard work and ingenuity.
The only point I don't agree completely on, is about the repro makers. I think it's a travesty that gamereproductions screwed the pooch by "re-pirating" airball, and hence making it wholely unappealing for you to do similar CIB releases in the future. I know there are a lot of us here that would have been happy to see more of these types of things. But I have no issue with them charging what they do for other repros that are already on the market. They fill a niche, and that is the price the market will pay. Leon K originally charged in the neighborhood of $45 PLUS the donor, and it was a deal at the time because back then the hardware to do it (chip programmers) were more expensive to obtain and thus the bar to entry was higher. Now that those guys have their initial hardware investment paid off, making one-off carts for $25, or so, is not unreasonable to most customers(again except for the fact that the douche-bag at gamereproductions crossed the line with airball).
Then again, I don't think any of us have a guess at what kind of volume those guys do. I doubt they make very many of anything that they sell, so there's absolutely no way that this could be their primary source of revenue.
But any way you cut it Stan's complaints are BS. Brand New products are something we're buying to support people NOW, and are not some exotic and lucky find "in the wild" that we would feel obliged to pass on to a fellow collector. He just comes off as extremely rude and acidic.
I mean, he could have designed and released Glider as a flash game, and it would be worthless; another free applet you'd click thru online for five minutes and forget about.
But by putting it in a NES-sized case he gets to sell some for good money.
Alls I have to say is very nice job bunnyboy
~~NGD
The repro maker comments are just there for a reference of how others already have significantly higher profit margins which are accepted without question, not that I think they are insane prices. After Leon made his first great reproductions 10 years ago it has been pretty stagnant, even small things like including manuals still hasn't been done. The old guard was unwilling to make an investment in the community, other than buying and selling protos. Even now it's those old collectors that are holding onto the protos, not "sharing the information". Perfectly understandable because once they do they will lose value. Fortunately it just seems the new crew of collectors and gamers has no problem paying for the advancement of the community and supporting other people's work. And it is those new people buying limited edition and production things that helps fund whatever product comes next.
I think your being ridiculous Stan. Bunmyboy is spending lots of time and $$$ to release new games for the NES. No one else has ever done that. For one the NES is very hard to code for, so most people don't have the skill set. Two, it is VERY expensive to release a game CIB like this, we are talking like 4-5k, not kidding at all. Yes as portnoyd said this is a labor of love for bunnyboy, but he has to make some money or he can't keep making them for us all to enjoy. I for one love the Retrozone releases and think it is a great service for the community. If you don't like them then just don't bid or buy from him, end of story. Crapping on his thread and stirring up drama just serves no real point! If you are willing to put up YOUR cash and YOUR time to do something like this for the community then you have room to bitch about prices. You can sell yours for cost and just break even for hours and hours of work. It goes for anyone, if you don't like the service don't use it....but try to find anther place to get unreleased games for the NES in this day and age. I a guess I will wait for StanZone to open up. Be greatful for the hardwork instead of criticizing it. (end rant)
~~NGD
I'll drink to that... Water, of course