Sorry its not a pie graph, but the relative luminosity decay is a log function with the rate of piss per hour over time. Increasing your piss temperature would help speed the degradation. Maybe you should get the cart graded before and after piss.
If I put the poop INSIDE the cartridge and lit it up with a blue and red LED to make it look like bloody hemroid poop you think I could get a profit on the bay? Anyway, my problem is what someone stated earlier. Yeah, I know you expect to get a little more out of it, but as someone stated, this is a dead system. If you're in it as a collector, enthusiast, amateur programmer, whatever, great, but don't cash in on lame morons who you know are going to bid a lot, that's just unethical. Heck, I'd pay 60 bucks for one of the LED carts if you made them, and I probably will buy them in the future. I think stuff like this is awesome, but I don't think it's cool to do this stuff and then jet profit from it. Expect a reasonable amount of money from it, and that's fine, but this is clear workage of the market, nothing more. Why not sell each of them to private collectors on here for the 60 bucks you said you'd have to sell them for? Simple, because you want MORE money than that, that's it. I was very happy with my Airball cart and the quality of it, so don't get me wrong, I love this stuff, I just think things should be for collecting purposes, and not business, that makes it really, really lame. If I had the time to put my own game together I honestly wouldn't expect to make much from it, because the revenue for me would be the experience and the result I'd be giving to the community, I don't think I should make money off of that. Self-sacrifice is kind of what this sort of thing is supposed to be about.
well, how would he sell them fairly to collectors? He's not gonna make 200 LE when the whole run may sell 250. He wanted to make something special for the collectors(10 carts). With only 5 available, how would you fairly make them available? I think ebay was a good choice. Yes, they'll go for what the market commands, but I'd rather that, then not have a chance at one because someone can sit on the internet all day and click refresh to gobble them up. At least this way, everyone has a fair chance at them. Those without a lot of cash, still get a chance by posting in this thread, and can buy it for the price of the normal edition. The LE is for collectors, the general edition is for whoever just wants the game.
Another point to make...RetroZone IS his business. That is his only job and he focusing entirely on it to provide income for himself. He has several projects FS to so he can do projects like this. He is doing this for the collecting part and as a business, no way he can make everyone happy. I think he done the fair thing and let the market set the price. I don't care if they sold for 10 bucks or 2k, I still wouldn't sell mine. Business is business, and he has to provide for his family over making cynical collectors happy. Keep doing what you are doing Brain, most of the community is behind you.
Anyways he wanted to do something swanky since people faulted him on just applying a coat of paint for his last super-variant. I think he's legitimately added value; more than just that of variant scarcity. Like you said, it's really cool. And it deserves the chance to have the market set a price. It's not up to you, or me, or him, and putting them up for auction was the right thing to do. And if it benefits ANYONE, it should be him.
If the variant was lame, or the game undesirable, or any of a number of things, then it simply wouldn't be worth a high bid on eBay and we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I think you'll see, not all the bidders are lame morons. Remember who won the gold Airball.
I think what we're witnessing is a clash of schools of thought regarding where the NES scene was, and where it is now. I can certainly understand Stan's POV, but I don't agree with it. I often don't agree with Stan's points, but I respect that he's willing to argue them. It is, after all, a free country.
It's simply not realistic to expect someone to build something from the ground up and take a huge loss on it, just for "the community." By doing it *at all*, he's giving back to the community. Brian is a very smart guy, and he could easily move on to other projects, systems, etc, but he's taken a lot of time, money, and brain power creating something for all of us to enjoy, for the NES.
If demand commands a high price for his LED Gliders, so be it -- I'm thrilled to see him make money off his hard work, and not someone else. Isn't that the real point? Instead of someone else buying his stuff, lying about what it is, and ripping off the ignorant? To imply that NES collectors that are willing to pay high prices for something you feel should receive little profit for is, simply put, ignorant.
When Brian reads threads like this, I can imagine it's pretty damaging to his "morale" to keep making games. I know the feeling to an extent. If anyone has taken a hit, it's been me, but I do it because I love it. I won't kid you, I hope to make money at some point with this site, in a way that benefits everyone. Why? Because I spend a lot of time doing it. Does that make me greedy? Hardly. There's a reason you don't see many sites with every manual scanned, every cart, box, etc... it takes a lot of server resources and a lot of time. Brian used the analogy of hours worked on the game equaling $6-15K in development time. I think the number of hours I've put into this site would equal enough to buy a very nice house. My point to all of this is, there's nothing wrong with making money at something you enjoy, whether it be NES or some other hobby.
I, for one, sincerely appreciate what Brian does and really hope he continues to do it.
Nothing personal man, I didn't know you well at the time. I've known Stan for years, and he's a friend of mine, even if I don't agree with him at times (like this one).
1. Is this SERIOUSLY and honestly all he does for his life in terms of work? If so, then it makes more sense to me, I didn't know that bit.
2. Out of curiosity, I really don't know the legality, is it even legal to make games for it since Nintendo still owns all the property? Just curious, because thinking back to when I was working on THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!11 I had to write to them for permission to get it published, otherwise no agent would touch it. In spite of the fact that it's a 'dead system', they pretty much said in nice business-ese that if I tried they'd pull my head off, piss in it, shit in it and then put an LED light in each eye socket.
Yup, Nintendo used to claim that it was illegal, back in the 80's...but as far as I know they only ever successfully sued Tengen and that was for reverse engineering their lockout chip. Strictly speaking the CiClone is a little bit different and may not violate Nintendo's patent. But since they haven't sued him yet they'll eventually lose their right to do so, since a patent is only valid if you defend it adequately.
I think Tengen was liable because they had signed agreements with Nintendo back when they were making licensed games, about not reverse-engineering and competing. They had NES dev kits and access to special information. This shot them in the foot when they tried to make their own.
Other companies like CD had no agreements with Nintendo, but NOA used different tactics to blackball them. They refused to sell licensed Nintendo games to any stores carrying the other unlicensed games within their stock, and threatened to send agents out to see and report back. Considering this was what kids wanted, this would literally break stores. Yes this was a monopolistic practice, but who's gonna spend the money to bring the juggernaut to court.
Of course the quality of the games these late-entry competitors brought to the table was sorely lacking, and even their lower price points (since they didn't have to pay for the Nintendo production process and licensing) couldn't combat budget-bin titles and legit hot-property licenses like the Disney and Mario games.
The Tengen case was a Patent violation regarding the lockout chip, I'm almost certain.
As far as the other unlicensed games, you're right Nintendo was the one breaking the law.
That's why Sega didn't have any good 3rd party games back then, because Capcom, Konami, Enix, and Square were all forced into exclusive business with Nintendo.
Comments
Bunnyboy, they look nice, looks like you did a nice job.
will still work afterwards. If it does, I will piss on it
again.
Does that take like 700,000 years of the light or what?
Lets see some pie graphs please.
I don't think i have enough friends/family to piss 50 liters an hour.
If Juice prices continue to rise, there's no way.
And besides piss, there really is nothing you can do to break anything nowadays.
oh what a world.
Special "brown" Edition of Glider...
~~NGD
If numerous post and ranting count, I need to catch up to Stan lol
Anyways he wanted to do something swanky since people faulted him on just applying a coat of paint for his last super-variant. I think he's legitimately added value; more than just that of variant scarcity. Like you said, it's really cool. And it deserves the chance to have the market set a price. It's not up to you, or me, or him, and putting them up for auction was the right thing to do. And if it benefits ANYONE, it should be him.
If the variant was lame, or the game undesirable, or any of a number of things, then it simply wouldn't be worth a high bid on eBay and we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I think you'll see, not all the bidders are lame morons. Remember who won the gold Airball.
It's simply not realistic to expect someone to build something from the ground up and take a huge loss on it, just for "the community." By doing it *at all*, he's giving back to the community. Brian is a very smart guy, and he could easily move on to other projects, systems, etc, but he's taken a lot of time, money, and brain power creating something for all of us to enjoy, for the NES.
If demand commands a high price for his LED Gliders, so be it -- I'm thrilled to see him make money off his hard work, and not someone else. Isn't that the real point? Instead of someone else buying his stuff, lying about what it is, and ripping off the ignorant? To imply that NES collectors that are willing to pay high prices for something you feel should receive little profit for is, simply put, ignorant.
When Brian reads threads like this, I can imagine it's pretty damaging to his "morale" to keep making games. I know the feeling to an extent. If anyone has taken a hit, it's been me, but I do it because I love it. I won't kid you, I hope to make money at some point with this site, in a way that benefits everyone. Why? Because I spend a lot of time doing it. Does that make me greedy? Hardly. There's a reason you don't see many sites with every manual scanned, every cart, box, etc... it takes a lot of server resources and a lot of time. Brian used the analogy of hours worked on the game equaling $6-15K in development time. I think the number of hours I've put into this site would equal enough to buy a very nice house. My point to all of this is, there's nothing wrong with making money at something you enjoy, whether it be NES or some other hobby.
I, for one, sincerely appreciate what Brian does and really hope he continues to do it.
If you make a NEW game, and people will PAY for it...you are entitled to whatever profit comes from your hard work.
If that involves having a limited release with obvious novelty associated with it...people who want that are obviously
willing to pay more for it.
Bunnyboy obviously understands how to market his product very effectively and should be justly rewarded by the free market.
Suggesting anything less...and it's pretty clear you're either jealous or a socialist.
Bunnyboy deserves all he gets for these things.
Especailly, if the money he makes futher promotes new game development.
Sorry for crapping on your thread Brian!
1. Is this SERIOUSLY and honestly all he does for his life in terms of work? If so, then it makes more sense to me, I didn't know that bit.
2. Out of curiosity, I really don't know the legality, is it even legal to make games for it since Nintendo still owns all the property? Just curious, because thinking back to when I was working on THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!11 I had to write to them for permission to get it published, otherwise no agent would touch it. In spite of the fact that it's a 'dead system', they pretty much said in nice business-ese that if I tried they'd pull my head off, piss in it, shit in it and then put an LED light in each eye socket.
Good luck trying to get people to use it, much less pay for it, but it's perfectly legal.
Other companies like CD had no agreements with Nintendo, but NOA used different tactics to blackball them. They refused to sell licensed Nintendo games to any stores carrying the other unlicensed games within their stock, and threatened to send agents out to see and report back. Considering this was what kids wanted, this would literally break stores. Yes this was a monopolistic practice, but who's gonna spend the money to bring the juggernaut to court.
Of course the quality of the games these late-entry competitors brought to the table was sorely lacking, and even their lower price points (since they didn't have to pay for the Nintendo production process and licensing) couldn't combat budget-bin titles and legit hot-property licenses like the Disney and Mario games.
It wasn't illegal, just unlikely.
As far as the other unlicensed games, you're right Nintendo was the one breaking the law.
That's why Sega didn't have any good 3rd party games back then, because Capcom, Konami, Enix, and Square were all forced into exclusive business with Nintendo.
Pretty crazy!
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