Complete Genesis Collection Poll
As I get closer to the holy grail of a complete US Genesis collection, I've been looking at what I have and trimming out a few odds and ends that are cool but I'm not sure I need, like a CIB Japanese Sonic 2, Canadian releases of sports games, and the blank spine MH variant of Taz Escape from Mars. I've been eyeing a few others too, and wanted to start a discussion about what really constitutes a complete Genesis collection. I did some searches in the forums and read different takes on this - of course, a complete collection is in the eye of the beholder. But as Sega Age is the best group of Sega collectors the internet has to offer, I think we can come to some agreements on a few key topics. So I present the following six items for discussion.
1) Sega Classics and Mega Hits
These to me seem like they should be part of the collection wherever possible, but some are much easier to come by than others. Johnny posted what I think is the definitive list here, and it includes 13 Classics (+1 if you count the cardboard variant of Columns) and 10 Mega Hits (3 of which are variants with the Sega Seal). Not all of these are in the collection tool; should they all be?
2) Ballistic Video Game Classics
What about these hardtop box variants? The two that I have are Mike Ditka Power Football and Test Drive II and I am sure there are others. I've considered them simply another type of Sega Classic, but they aren't in the list above. Should they be?
3) Large Box Games / Accessories
This one is probably going to be in the eye of the collector, but what about the huge boxes (Outback Joey and Miracle Piano), large boxes (Lethal Enforcers, X-Band Modem), and oversize boxes (Carmen Sandiegos, Mario Lemieux with puck)? I'm sure there are others I'm missing as well. Personally, I think they should be included, but I'm also not wild about Outback Joey as I really only collect what I will probably play some day.
4) Cardboard Variants
One topic I'm conflicted on is what do to with cardboard variants. I've managed to collect a handful of games in both clamshell and cardboard but do we really need to keep both to be considered complete? I'd be interested to hear which people would keep if they had a choice.
5) Publisher Variants
This is another area where I am unsure. The collection tool lists two copies of Lost Vikings, one Interplay and one Ballistic, but I know there are plenty of others that are not listed. It seems inconsistent to require that one, but not the others. I've never really been a variant collector, so I'm inclined to let these slide, but am curious about what others think.
6) Not For Resale Variants
The only two CIB NFRs that I know of are Sonic 1 and 2, but I am sure there may be others. And there are plenty of NFR carts. So are they all needed?
Edit: I added some polls to the thread to see how the votes go, but it's a bit of a mess. Sorry about that. Also, if you have more to add, please discuss. Finally, I apologize for the US-centric nature of this post and the polls, but that's what I know. Hopefully this discussion will help for the other regions too.
1) Sega Classics and Mega Hits
These to me seem like they should be part of the collection wherever possible, but some are much easier to come by than others. Johnny posted what I think is the definitive list here, and it includes 13 Classics (+1 if you count the cardboard variant of Columns) and 10 Mega Hits (3 of which are variants with the Sega Seal). Not all of these are in the collection tool; should they all be?
2) Ballistic Video Game Classics
What about these hardtop box variants? The two that I have are Mike Ditka Power Football and Test Drive II and I am sure there are others. I've considered them simply another type of Sega Classic, but they aren't in the list above. Should they be?
3) Large Box Games / Accessories
This one is probably going to be in the eye of the collector, but what about the huge boxes (Outback Joey and Miracle Piano), large boxes (Lethal Enforcers, X-Band Modem), and oversize boxes (Carmen Sandiegos, Mario Lemieux with puck)? I'm sure there are others I'm missing as well. Personally, I think they should be included, but I'm also not wild about Outback Joey as I really only collect what I will probably play some day.
4) Cardboard Variants
One topic I'm conflicted on is what do to with cardboard variants. I've managed to collect a handful of games in both clamshell and cardboard but do we really need to keep both to be considered complete? I'd be interested to hear which people would keep if they had a choice.
5) Publisher Variants
This is another area where I am unsure. The collection tool lists two copies of Lost Vikings, one Interplay and one Ballistic, but I know there are plenty of others that are not listed. It seems inconsistent to require that one, but not the others. I've never really been a variant collector, so I'm inclined to let these slide, but am curious about what others think.
6) Not For Resale Variants
The only two CIB NFRs that I know of are Sonic 1 and 2, but I am sure there may be others. And there are plenty of NFR carts. So are they all needed?
Edit: I added some polls to the thread to see how the votes go, but it's a bit of a mess. Sorry about that. Also, if you have more to add, please discuss. Finally, I apologize for the US-centric nature of this post and the polls, but that's what I know. Hopefully this discussion will help for the other regions too.
Comments
Regarding the polls, I don't think I can change the results and it doesn't look like you can change your vote. Wonder if that's something that can be updated.
Originally posted by: SpaceFlea
None of those variants count. Nor do Outback Joey or The Miracle because they aren't games.
I agree on the first part butwe are entitled to our own opinions on the second. I see anything legally produced for use on the genesis part of the collection. I only add the illegal ballistic titles because they were sold here at retail stores. It's really down to your call in the end though.
To me, one of each game constitutes a complete collection. I have started to accumulate cardboard variants over the past few months as I see them, but I don't actively seek them out. I would like to luck into a ton of other cardboard games in one lot to just put a wrap on it, though :-)
I don't count variations like # of screws, label, box, classics, player's choice, NFR or any other BS as part of that. If I own any copy of Sonic 2, then it gets crossed off the list.
A.) Thoroughly reviewed every title for the system via some means of interwebs or emulation preview-play.
B.) Declared some manner of games suitable, other unsuitable to personal tastes.
C.) Arranged an "acceptable" CIB of the whole lot of personal importance. Can be of random parts if that does not bug the person. My "Columns CIB" is the cart, manaual tucked in the insert ploybag under console, and Box of the Columns-bundled-system.
D.) Is satisfied.
I am limited in space, so I tailor my "complete collection" goal only to serve my gaming and art style tastes. I care not one flying shitcake for sports outside of Mutant League, Beastball, Pigskin for example.
My collection of CIBs is "almost complete," but only includes about 277-280 titles.
They are in superior condition (the uncommon / rares at least) and I am proud of them and how they play all sweet-like and with my krazy kontrollerz.
The point I can "stop" is very close and I will not be not bored, but set free at the day.
I only collect as a means to a personal end, and I am very close to be able to utterly and carelessly dance on pads at a myriad of game like "I GOT ALL MY SHIZZ, YO!" and not give half a dook about eBay or BST.
So, a truly complete collection in my mind includes all "Obvious variants" like cardboard, non-cardboard, NFR, nonNFR, classics and original release, etc.
Seriously screw that. Who ever said you are a list? Complete collection is your mind at peace and happy with what you have, be it five games or seven hundred.
I would say no to all them too and like some here have already said, one copy of each game should be enough. The game is the same game and that's all really what matters. Collecting variants is perhaps that extra step that a collector would take in bettering their collection, but it doesn't mean that variants should constitute a COMPLETE set.
This issue always confused me and I have opinions for and against, but honestly it just makes sense that one copy per game is enough, regardless of variant, and then be checked off the list.
But other than that, it's always up to the individual if they want to include variants in their collection in order to consider it complete.
Definitely one copy of the game make is a check off the ol list.
I would *not* include Outback Joey or Piano, just because that sort of turns what is doable into a near-impossible feat like Nintendo's dumb "grails" that are actually shit games. Those two games were instituted into existence by satan just to b'feckle with poor Sega collector's minds.
I anticipate that my feelings on this matter will evolve as I play through the games and find out which ones I really enjoy and which ones I can live without. I'll probably follow in the footsteps of those who have divested themselves of all but 200 or 300 choice titles (to be defined by myself, of course). Eventually. But for now, I just want to see all of them in one place at the same time, and this thread is helpful in defining what "all" really means.
Originally posted by: maelwys
I'm not 100% sure about the Ballistic hard top box games. Looking at the two I have, the original release is the Ballistic release. The "Video Game Classics" release is an Accolade release. I didn't notice this before I started looking hard at them.
This is true for the others as well. However, it appears that the change is only made to the box art. The manual and cart still say Ballistic even though the cart label has changed. Makes perfect sense right? The remaining Ballistic games with Classics boxes are Double Dragon, Hardball, Super Off Road, and Winter Challenge.
source: http://cardboard.segaage.com/
My first collecting goal was Obtain All Original Releases to try and keep them as much the same as possible. I took all my playstation greatest hits stuff I had bought brand new 10 years ago and bought black label games so that those would be uniform. Sega I wanted clamshells instead of cardboard. So true was this that I actually passed on a CV Bloodlines that I found locally for like $10 or so because it was cardboard (I still do not own this game). Then I hung around here and you variant jerks (you know who you are) poisoned my mind and I thought 'hey now that would be fun!' so it became BUY ALL THE THINGS which I did for a while.
Last year I made the decision to completely uproot my life and quit my job, move to another state, and go back to school which left me with something on the order of 0 dollars of disposable income (rather my net worth took a $30,000 plunge. thanks student loans!). Now I'm pretty much following The Linty Plan and really analyzing which games I purchase (if any). Good thing I bought powerpaks and everdrives when I could, plus I still have all the shit I bought so I'm not running out of games to play anytime soon which is nice.
Sega Classics, Mega Hits, Video Game Classics, Publisher, and/or CB Variants: Count as much as an original release and I don't expect people to have all of them. I definitely don't expect people to have the variations of variants that it seems Sega loved so much.
NFRs; same games different labels. sometimes even same games, same labels, plus a sticker. nfr carts thrown into non-nfr boxes makes me sad
Oversize Box games ala Carmen Sandiego/Maximum Carnage: As far as I'm aware these are all just regular clamshell games stuffed inside a larger cardboard box with an accesory that doesn't specifically affect gameplay. aka you don't need that exact item to play it. If you were a cart only collector you couldn't tell them apart.
Lethal Enforcers: as far as I can tell, was only released in that big ass box with the Justifier so yeah that one counts
XBAND Modem: is an interface to play other games online in the mid 90's and I'm pretty sure is completely useless in 2013. Collectible Accessory. Not a game.
Miracle Joey Plays Piano in the Outback: Here's where things get fun. Up until now it's been one version of every unique game == full set for the console which is a pretty fair tradeoff compared to own every variant ever because all subsets should be treated equally. There's nothing wrong with only having "all the games I want" but I wouldn't consider it a full set of genesis games. I don't think anybody would go around saying I have all the sega games!!! at that point either because that would be false and they are quite aware of that.
I guess the real question here is should these be counted as games? If your definition of game is 'any software that will run on the console' these are games. You'd also need a shit ton of pirates, prototypes, BB Comp cart, New Leaf/Game Factory carts, and other stuff so you narrow this down to 'any piece of software that was commercially released during the consoles lifespan (in this case 1989-1998). That takes care of pirates, prototypes, comp carts, etc but these would still be games.
You could argue that they can't be used without having the accessories they came pacakged with. [I'm not sure, but aren't the only differences between the NES and SEGA pianos the lack of the Nintendo seal of quality and a different cable to plug it into the console?] Then again, most light gun games won't function without a lightgun and they still count.
They're not games because the gameplay is terrible. Why you hatin on these two? There's plenty of games with terrible gameplay. Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia is about as much of a game as it sounds, but nobody has ever said it shouldn't count. At this point, you should be a member of the 'I'm only going to buy games that I personally feel are worth owning' club. It's still a pretty cool club if you ask me. I even heard they were changing to a Klub soon because everyone is an MK fan.
Real reason people discredit them: They're hard to find and/or fuckin expensive and they don't want to spend the time, energy, and money to obtain them. There is nothing wrong with this. It's an emotional reason not to include the games, but I don't know why people have such a hard time saying that instead of coming up with a BS reason why games shouldn't count and I can't think of a logical reason not to lol. Does Stadium Events count for NES? is the same question and it's asked to death on NA with more people making up dumb shit why it shouldn't count every time. Do I personally feel that these games are worth owning? Not a chance. However, if I wanted to truly get "everything" I'd probably be on the lookout for them.
Collecting is a very personal journey and it's up to the individual to decide what to collect. Impressing other people might be a side effect of it, but just as likely there's going to be people who think what you're collecting, or how you're doing it, is the dumbest shit in the world. Haters gonna hate. You can try to objectively rank collections based on what's in them
5 of a Kind
Royal Flush plus a mummified Segata Sanshiro
~
The Royal Flush
literally everything. All unique games including known variants, Outback Joey, Miracle piano, whatever else you want
~
The Straight Flush
One of every unique game, OJ, and Miracle
~
4 of a Kind
One of every unique game
~
Full house
Only the games you deem worthy because you literally have a full house and no space for 300 sports titles you're never going to play anyway and as Maelwys said they might as well be sealed
Just like in poker, the higher ranks SHOULD be more impressive. They contain more stuff! Does everybody actually care about that though? Of course not. I'd rather see a well set up display of the highest quality games the system has to offer than piles of boxes that correspond to every game made for it even if I'd rather own it all given infinite time and money. I can't even begin to comment on or judge other people's collections because, as it stands, I'm prety much sitting here with a pair of 5s trying to play with some of the big boys.
This was a really long post and I'm not sure why I typed all of it.
Originally posted by: dballin
This was a really long post and I'm not sure why I typed all of it.
Correction: This was a fucking awesome post and I'm glad I typed all of it.
Seriously.
all of those are genesis games. if you are going for a complete genesis collection, why wouldn't those count?
Originally posted by: final fight cd
all of those are genesis games. if you are going for a complete genesis collection, why wouldn't those count?
It would just be up to the individual if they wanted to get variants but because it would mean you would be getting the same game multiple times a lot of people would not go for it. I would call a complete set having each game once in it's original standard release.
Originally posted by: flatuswalrus
Originally posted by: final fight cd
all of those are genesis games. if you are going for a complete genesis collection, why wouldn't those count?
It would just be up to the individual if they wanted to get variants but because it would mean you would be getting the same game multiple times a lot of people would not go for it. I would call a complete set having each game once in it's original standard release.
i agree to an extent. but...
1) those could be classified as major variants. those aren't variants because of some minor, miniscule difference that requires an OCD to take notice of. the programming of the game is probably identical, but everything is far from identical.
2) another rhetorical question: how could anybody care enough to go for a CIB genesis set, but not care about these major variants?
Originally posted by: final fight cd
2) another rhetorical question: how could anybody care enough to go for a CIB genesis set, but not care about these major variants?
I could understand people going for anything or whatever they want even if I thought it was odd or no the norm because everyone is different. I was getting variants when I collected but I wasn't really going for a full set of any region in particular, I was just gettin' them because I thought they were interesting.
Originally posted by: final fight cd
1) those could be classified as major variants. those aren't variants because of some minor, miniscule difference that requires an OCD to take notice of. the programming of the game is probably identical, but everything is far from identical.
2) another rhetorical question: how could anybody care enough to go for a CIB genesis set, but not care about these major variants?
To me # 2 is a pretty valid question and not really as rhetorical as it seems. It is slightly answered between the lines in what you say in the first point.
The best way I can answer is to first present you with this optical illusion, as it is related to what I will say after the picture. Notice how you can observe the two different sets of stairs present and flop them back and forth by wrinkling and unwrinkling something deep inside your brain, just a simple shift in perspective changes what is observed radically.
In light of what I have observed in this thread I think I have pinned down two rather distinct methods of "perceiving" a genesis CIB collection.
EARTH
This one is "materia" focused, the obvious variants and difference in visual and structural forms notable and weigh heavy on the mind of the collector. Leaving anything that is glaringly obvious in difference out of the collection makes it seem incomplete, because how could it possibly be? "Something is missing" to this mindset even if the game is present and playable in a different form since attention is focused on the physical apparati themselves as much as their playability. When viewed in this light, it is completely understandable how everything else would not hit an "official" benchmark of completeness since, INDEED it could not be denied that things are missing.
This type would find comfort and not discomfort at owning and managing the space and object mass taken up by a "software and gameplay redundance" of the following games.
Sonic Classics CIB / Sonic 1 CIB / NFR Sonic 1 CIB / Sonic 2 CIB / NFR Sonic 2 CIB
6-pak CIB / Golden Axe CIB / Sega Classics Golden Axe CIB
The Revenge of Shinobi CIB (possibly each distinct software revision) / The Revenge of Shinobi Classics CIB
Streets of Rage CIB, Streets of Rage Classics CIB
That makes a massive stack of 13 CIB games, and not counting the extra unmentioned games on the 6-pak, that only makes 5 distinct games. That's around 38% "play to space" effeciency.
These collections are often highly prized and lauded as this take tremendous amounts of self-sustained effort to achieve and maintain such thorough completeness of such a wild and difficult to capture array of items.
WIND
This one is "function" focused, the obvious variants and difference in visual and structural forms irrelevant to this tendency of archetype. Leaving anything that is glaringly obvious in difference out of the collection makes it seem more efficient and less wasteful, since "what good is having three copies of Sonic 1 when I only need one to play and I like the second one better?" In this mindset, even if the game is floating around and playable in a different form of hard matter- attention is focused instead on playability and "can it be done? Y/N.. If Y than proceed" When viewed in this light, it is completely understandable how even glaringly obvious and even painful-to-ignore variations can be left at the wayside and still find the collector sitting on his own throne of completeness, even if that throne is made of old soup tins. It could not be denied that things are indeed missing, but this collector will use his own iron curtain of ideals to duck and weave like a boxer around criticisms of incompleteness since he can indeed play every game that the materia focused collector has, but with a lot less stuff lying around.
This type would find discomfort at owning and managing the space and object mass taken up by a "software and gameplay redundance" and would likely sell or trade "extras" at a moment's notice and without hesitation..
Sonic 1 CIB
Sonic 2 CIB
Golden Axe CIB
The Revenge of Shinobi CIB
Streets of Rage CIB
That makes 5 CIB games at 100% "play to space" efficiency. Might be able to fit them all into a shoebox and toss into the passenger seat at a moment's notice. They may even look like complete shit, since that is not always important to the functionalist.
These collections often respected by fellow collectors as admirable in adherence to an ideal and in a kind of awe of the marked Spartan-ish utilitarianism. Rarely will they make small fortunes on YouTube for panoramic centerfolds of what to them could be seen as the "pursuit of a pointless endeavor above and beyond what is necessary."
NATURALLY... these are the extreme ends of the spectrum and most people fall somewhere in the middle.
Hope that made sense.
*shrug*
Originally posted by: SpaceFlea
None of those variants count. Nor do Outback Joey or The Miracle because they aren't games.
Outback Joey is a game....Miracle Piano is a teaching system, they still both count. For me a US Retail Licensed set consists of 1 of each licensed game and its original packaging. Streets of rage NRF doesnt count NFRs are a subset, Your Classic Golden Axe also doesnt count as it is in it's own subset. I do think the MegaHit and Classics should be owned for the US Retail set. The unlicensed games are a a subset.
For me if you want to say you have a complete genesis set, you need to have the megahit, classics, and unlicensed games (unlicensed that came out during the systems life sorry Pier Solar). Cardboard variants not required, Some came with both, one of either will suffice. As far as Big Box like Carmen SanDiego- it's just a variant. Full sets with variants are another story
ps: got a 100 on my logic gate and Boolean algebra test so maybe a giant post on SA is just what I needed to give the brain time to recharge.
Originally posted by: dballin
I don't place as much importance on the classics/mh games and i'm curious why those are more important variants than others. Originals still preferred, but I wouldn't say someone was wrong otherwise.
They are more important because they are variants Sega made on purpose, they are the games that sold the Genesis to an extent. This isn't a sticker or a fuzz writing or discoloration because it came from Mexico rather than Japan, these Sega games were hand selected and retemplated by Sega. Thats my reasoning and part of the reason why I wanted to know what all the Cardboard games were. NFR's have a place but in my mind they are always their own sub set. Mostly because they don't have boxes