I see tutorials telling me how to run wires from the eproms to the pcb due to the different pinout of the maskroms, but how do I find this out for myself?
There are many alt. versions of PCB'sm such as SLxx TLXX TSXX and so on, so there's multiple types. Also, Famicom has NUMEROUS PCB's that the states never got it. But the one's on those pages are about 99% accurate and will work for anything you do except maybe 32pin unrom games, except you'll find the pinouts around here.
Cool! That image there, it confuses me. What type of EPROM is that? It does not look rewritable, why is it hanging off the edge of the board there?
Also, if I wanted to make a cart of a rom hack, would I just find the game that it is a rom hack of, and then find suitable donors for that game?
For example. I have a spare Megaman 4 cartridge with a busted label, if I wanted to turn it into a Rockman: Minus Infinity cart, would I merely have to get eproms big enough and then put them on the mm4 cart and then find the pinout to rewire it?
Also, is there anything that could be in a romhack that would make it unable to put onto a cart?
Yes I have alot of questions, I am very new to this yet very interested. Thank you Gorillazero and 3Gen for all of the help so far! Very helpful guys
That's not an "eprom" in the reflashable sense, that's a one time use chip. That's just to show you that UNROM's are different then what is listed on Nintendo Dev's page.
For your third sentence: Yes that's correct.
For your fourth sentence: If the romhack increases the rom size, or makes sense of a mapper/SRAM that isn't on the original cart.
If you use the search function you'll find out a lot about what you're asking. 3Gen is far more technical than me.
Rockman 4 minus infinity is a special case-it requires a mmc5 cart with chr ram installed. That's unusual though, most hacks can go on the original game's board.
Unrom and mmc2 games are limited to 1mb data. Nintendo a 28 pin package for that chip but eproms that size are 32 pin so they hang off the board when installed.
I see, sorry I wanted to respond to this earlier but i've been busy.
So lincoln, why is it okay for the pcb to not read all 32 pins?
Also, when you say with CHR ram installed, do you mean that it needs to be a certain type of pcb that has a CHR chip installed already? Or would you need to install one yourself?
So, when creating a game you would want to add a CHR RAM chip, you can use bootgod to find information. A lot of CHR RAM chips look the same, but are made by different companies. This can matter sometimes, so it's best to use one's that have already been verified by others to work on a repro or when fixing a broken NES cart.
Please see the eprom pinout for a 27C1001 for example to see pins 1-2, and pins 30-32. You usually bridge these, you can see from that picture I posted above.
I see, sorry I wanted to respond to this earlier but i've been busy.
So lincoln, why is it okay for the pcb to not read all 32 pins?
Also, when you say with CHR ram installed, do you mean that it needs to be a certain type of pcb that has a CHR chip installed already? Or would you need to install one yourself?
some of the pins are used and you have to jump them to another hole. usually,
pin 1 unconnected
pin 2 -> hole 22 (under eprom pin 24)
pin 24 -> GND
pin 30 -> can be left down in hole 28
pin 31 -> unconnected, or on some chips may need to be 5V
pin 32 -> hole 28 (under eprom 30) for 5V
concerning chr-ram, boards usually come with either ROM or RAM for the CHR slot (a few have both, but aren't relevant here). for CHR RAM games, usually you will find the right donor the RAM already installed. There are a few cases where your only option for other requirements leaves you wiht a CHR ROM donor, where you then have to remove the rom chip and install a RAM chip. The only ones I know of off-hand are Final Fantasy III, Rockman 4 Minus Infinity and the fds Doki Doki Panic mapper hack. Those are all more advanced repros, so you shouldn't need to worry about them too much while you're learning the basics.
My extent of electronics knowledge is replacing batteries in carts
Well I started off with the two tutorials on Callan Brown's website, the Moai Kun cart was easy with just popping the burned EPROMs into place of the mask roms, and I did the Banana Prince one last night (very cool game btw!) which was more difficult but I really loved putting it together and my finished product worked perfectly on the first test so I was very proud.
But now I'm not sure what to work on next, I really want to start getting into this perhaps full time but whenever I try to learn something new that isn't laid out and explained in layman terms I get frustrated.
The NESdev site with the pinout conversion charts for the different boards, looks quite confusing, now, Lincoln what you did there that explains what is connected to where is more my speed, haha.
Any tips or suggestions on what my next step towards this hobby should be?
Just read what it says and you should know what they mean. There's tons of different boards, some with different layouts, which you can ignore if it's not what you're working with. Try an SNROM game and use that site.
Hey there back with another question! So I made another TLROM repro, this time I used a Bases Loaded 3 to make a Contra Force.
I followed the same isntructions as before and wired it correctly, however, when I put the cart in and turn it out, I get Contra Force, but garbled graphics
I think i MIGHT have cut a trace with my dremel tool, but it looked like it barely scratched the surface and there was just copper showing, im positive it didnt go all the way through.
I had been struggling with the cart all night because im a noob, but what could it possibly be thats causing it not to work right? What could i have done wrong? I may try to redo it tomorrow but i am tooooo tired at the moment
Hey there back with another question! So I made another TLROM repro, this time I used a Bases Loaded 3 to make a Contra Force.
I followed the same isntructions as before and wired it correctly, however, when I put the cart in and turn it out, I get Contra Force, but garbled graphics
I think i MIGHT have cut a trace with my dremel tool, but it looked like it barely scratched the surface and there was just copper showing, im positive it didnt go all the way through.
I had been struggling with the cart all night because im a noob, but what could it possibly be thats causing it not to work right? What could i have done wrong? I may try to redo it tomorrow but i am tooooo tired at the moment
looks like it's wired correctly. first thought is that the pins or connector are dirty. second thought is the board is positioned incorrectly inside the cart due to running the wires over the eprom. there isn't much space to spare between the shell and eprom.
I think that the board may be positioned incorrectly, it does kind of push itself the the right, but only by about a millimeter.
What is an easier way to wire it so that it can fit inside the shell?
When you say dirty pins, are you referring to the part that connects into the NES? Or do you mean the eprom pins? Because they were a little tight in there, and when I was soldering I think I might have melted the plastic insulation of the wires onto a pin or two, does that matter?
After being dissapointed and leaving the project for about a day, I had anxiety about desoldering the eproms because I thought I would end up destroying them and having to end up cutting them off (my desoldering skills are a little rough still) but I decided to try it anyways.
Last night I pulled the chips off with minimal damage to the board, I did pop the pads off of CHR 3 and CHR 17 though but I scratched away some of the coating to reveal more of the trace and I will just add a little more solder, is this the correct way to fix this?:
Then upon further inspection of my board, I located the area that I bumped with my dremel tool to see if I had cut the track or not:
I had not, it ran down between the chips and was a trace for the MMC3 chip and still had continuity so I was good there, However, over here I had missed a little nick:
I did not see this before, these were connected to pins CHR 12 and CHR 13 and were sliced right through and they also just so happen to be A0 and D0 on my chips, so thefox was correct to suggest that those may not have continuity! I will simply try to rewire them to a clear spot on the trace.
I am going to salvage this and then reply with results! Thank you for everyones help!
Okay two things, buy a multimeter and buy a desoldering tool. No dremeltool lol. You can just as easily cut the pins with wire cutters too from Sears or Hoke Depot.
I promise you you'll have less issues.
Also Contar Force is NOT a repro lol, it's a legit cart.
So since I cut the traces and blocked off D0 and A0, I bent the pins back and ran wires from them towards the cart contacts.
Bent over pins:
then I scratched off the top layer of the traces closer to the contacts and soldered them directly on top of them this is not very durable now though, haha, these sit close to the inside lip of the cartridge:
So instead of throwing this board away out of frustration, what happened:
So, even though I could have started over with a new TLROM cart, im glad that I decided to take this one apart and do it properly
I was able to find the problem, work around it and experiment a little, plus using a multimeter to check connections is awesome. I dunno, I find this stuff very enjoyable and it's a great feeling when you actually bring it all together and make it work!
Gorilla, I do have a desoldering tool, but last board I was having soldering iron issues and ended up ruining it when I tried popping the eproms off. I like the idea of cutting off the chips and then just sucking out the legs, I just need to be more careful.
Comments
http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Mask_ROM_pinout
Also, is this the complete list? I notice there are a ton of different PCB types on NesCartdb.
Also, if I wanted to make a cart of a rom hack, would I just find the game that it is a rom hack of, and then find suitable donors for that game?
For example. I have a spare Megaman 4 cartridge with a busted label, if I wanted to turn it into a Rockman: Minus Infinity cart, would I merely have to get eproms big enough and then put them on the mm4 cart and then find the pinout to rewire it?
Also, is there anything that could be in a romhack that would make it unable to put onto a cart?
Yes I have alot of questions, I am very new to this yet very interested. Thank you Gorillazero and 3Gen for all of the help so far! Very helpful guys
For your third sentence: Yes that's correct.
For your fourth sentence: If the romhack increases the rom size, or makes sense of a mapper/SRAM that isn't on the original cart.
If you use the search function you'll find out a lot about what you're asking. 3Gen is far more technical than me.
Unrom and mmc2 games are limited to 1mb data. Nintendo a 28 pin package for that chip but eproms that size are 32 pin so they hang off the board when installed.
So lincoln, why is it okay for the pcb to not read all 32 pins?
Also, when you say with CHR ram installed, do you mean that it needs to be a certain type of pcb that has a CHR chip installed already? Or would you need to install one yourself?
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/pcb.php?PcbID=309
So, when creating a game you would want to add a CHR RAM chip, you can use bootgod to find information. A lot of CHR RAM chips look the same, but are made by different companies. This can matter sometimes, so it's best to use one's that have already been verified by others to work on a repro or when fixing a broken NES cart.
Please see the eprom pinout for a 27C1001 for example to see pins 1-2, and pins 30-32. You usually bridge these, you can see from that picture I posted above.
Originally posted by: ThrashOmen
I see, sorry I wanted to respond to this earlier but i've been busy.
So lincoln, why is it okay for the pcb to not read all 32 pins?
Also, when you say with CHR ram installed, do you mean that it needs to be a certain type of pcb that has a CHR chip installed already? Or would you need to install one yourself?
some of the pins are used and you have to jump them to another hole. usually,
pin 1 unconnected
pin 2 -> hole 22 (under eprom pin 24)
pin 24 -> GND
pin 30 -> can be left down in hole 28
pin 31 -> unconnected, or on some chips may need to be 5V
pin 32 -> hole 28 (under eprom 30) for 5V
concerning chr-ram, boards usually come with either ROM or RAM for the CHR slot (a few have both, but aren't relevant here). for CHR RAM games, usually you will find the right donor the RAM already installed. There are a few cases where your only option for other requirements leaves you wiht a CHR ROM donor, where you then have to remove the rom chip and install a RAM chip. The only ones I know of off-hand are Final Fantasy III, Rockman 4 Minus Infinity and the fds Doki Doki Panic mapper hack. Those are all more advanced repros, so you shouldn't need to worry about them too much while you're learning the basics.
My extent of electronics knowledge is replacing batteries in carts
Well I started off with the two tutorials on Callan Brown's website, the Moai Kun cart was easy with just popping the burned EPROMs into place of the mask roms, and I did the Banana Prince one last night (very cool game btw!) which was more difficult but I really loved putting it together and my finished product worked perfectly on the first test so I was very proud.
But now I'm not sure what to work on next, I really want to start getting into this perhaps full time but whenever I try to learn something new that isn't laid out and explained in layman terms I get frustrated.
The NESdev site with the pinout conversion charts for the different boards, looks quite confusing, now, Lincoln what you did there that explains what is connected to where is more my speed, haha.
Any tips or suggestions on what my next step towards this hobby should be?
You need to read honestly, it will help you out. We all start off at some point.
I followed the same isntructions as before and wired it correctly, however, when I put the cart in and turn it out, I get Contra Force, but garbled graphics
I think i MIGHT have cut a trace with my dremel tool, but it looked like it barely scratched the surface and there was just copper showing, im positive it didnt go all the way through.
I had been struggling with the cart all night because im a noob, but what could it possibly be thats causing it not to work right? What could i have done wrong? I may try to redo it tomorrow but i am tooooo tired at the moment
Originally posted by: ThrashOmen
Hey there back with another question! So I made another TLROM repro, this time I used a Bases Loaded 3 to make a Contra Force.
I followed the same isntructions as before and wired it correctly, however, when I put the cart in and turn it out, I get Contra Force, but garbled graphics
I think i MIGHT have cut a trace with my dremel tool, but it looked like it barely scratched the surface and there was just copper showing, im positive it didnt go all the way through.
I had been struggling with the cart all night because im a noob, but what could it possibly be thats causing it not to work right? What could i have done wrong? I may try to redo it tomorrow but i am tooooo tired at the moment
post pics of board and graphics.
The last image cut off in the upload... but you get the idea! Thanks for any responses, i will reply tomorrow!
What is an easier way to wire it so that it can fit inside the shell?
When you say dirty pins, are you referring to the part that connects into the NES? Or do you mean the eprom pins? Because they were a little tight in there, and when I was soldering I think I might have melted the plastic insulation of the wires onto a pin or two, does that matter?
After being dissapointed and leaving the project for about a day, I had anxiety about desoldering the eproms because I thought I would end up destroying them and having to end up cutting them off (my desoldering skills are a little rough still) but I decided to try it anyways.
Last night I pulled the chips off with minimal damage to the board, I did pop the pads off of CHR 3 and CHR 17 though but I scratched away some of the coating to reveal more of the trace and I will just add a little more solder, is this the correct way to fix this?:
Then upon further inspection of my board, I located the area that I bumped with my dremel tool to see if I had cut the track or not:
I had not, it ran down between the chips and was a trace for the MMC3 chip and still had continuity so I was good there, However, over here I had missed a little nick:
I did not see this before, these were connected to pins CHR 12 and CHR 13 and were sliced right through and they also just so happen to be A0 and D0 on my chips, so thefox was correct to suggest that those may not have continuity! I will simply try to rewire them to a clear spot on the trace.
I am going to salvage this and then reply with results! Thank you for everyones help!
I promise you you'll have less issues.
Also Contar Force is NOT a repro lol, it's a legit cart.
:-)
So since I cut the traces and blocked off D0 and A0, I bent the pins back and ran wires from them towards the cart contacts.
Bent over pins:
then I scratched off the top layer of the traces closer to the contacts and soldered them directly on top of them this is not very durable now though, haha, these sit close to the inside lip of the cartridge:
So instead of throwing this board away out of frustration, what happened:
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyay
So, even though I could have started over with a new TLROM cart, im glad that I decided to take this one apart and do it properly
I was able to find the problem, work around it and experiment a little, plus using a multimeter to check connections is awesome. I dunno, I find this stuff very enjoyable and it's a great feeling when you actually bring it all together and make it work!
Thanks for everyones help again!
Nice work