Ghosts and Goblins unexplainable oddity?

Armageddon PotatoArmageddon Potato
in Everything Else

I figured this would be the best place to ask such a question...

I've been playing GnG forever, and as far as I know on level 6 you have to unbug the final ladder with red devils to even climb up it. (To unbug it you simply have to climb down one level, and back up. Failing to do so causes the ladder to "scroll-bug-hurt-you" and causes an invisible red devil to attack you instantly, pretty much guarantees death.)
What's been wracking my brain is I watched the speed demos archive movie speedrun, (Found here: http://speeddemosarchive.com/GhostsnGoblins.html ) and in it this bug NEVER occurs. As far as I know it's impossible for it not to happen. I've tried endlessly on several emulators, and in real life on my USA NTSC cart. The bug is always present. Even the NESvideos time attack has this bug occur, and they can manipulate the game to do anything they want! How is this possible that the world record video run of this game does the impossible? Here's what I've discovered from many sources so far:

From bruplex
(He wrote the only GameFAQ on GnG found here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/file/587303/6430 )

---start of email response---





Greetings:





 





I've seen that video too and I honestly think it's a fake. There's been some heated debate amongst GNG folks, bascially about the ladder--some claim there are different US versions, others say the ROM was hacked, still others say it's Japanese version.





 





I don't think it's the Famicom version however, as there are some language differences. I've also noticed in that video level 2 is very fishy--it's hard to tell with that stuff. I forget the site, but there IS a website where you submit your time runs on VHS or digital camera with your NES in view to prove the record is done without emulation. If the video is there, it's passed the test!





 





Nonetheless, congrats on beatings GNG! It's a lot of memorization but once you get it, it's pretty fun to try a no death/no continue run! I'm working on a very difficult FAQ for Einhander on the PSX these days (unlocking the toughest secret ship) so it makes GNG seem like a cakewalk! :)





 





Cheers and good job on your vigiliance!





 





James

---end of email response---

When I asked Daniel how he overcame that bug that no one else has been able to he said...

---start of youtube message---

Response from Daniel 'Kareshi' Brown via youtube("kareshi" on youtube):

I've read that FAQ, but I honestly don't know what he's talking about. I have the USA cart of Ghosts N Goblins, playing on a standard unmodified first-party NTSC NES console, and I don't know about that glitch. My guess is that that glitch will get triggered if you play the level up to that point differently than I do, as in, if you kill more Red Devils along to way, or something like that. The only "ghost damage" part I know of is at the end of the blue cave level, when approaching the snake dragon boss. At that point it's possible to lose your armor for no apparent reason.
I've got detailed commentary on my run at
http://speeddemosarchive.com/GhostsnGoblins.html
Thanks for watching!

-Daniel

---end of youtube response---

How is this possible? I wanna know! =)

Here's the link to his referee verified accomplishment at twin galaxies:
http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&pi=23&gi=3413&vi=9717

Can anyone tell me why his game does not have this problem?

Comments

  • DainDain
    Interesting, I'm going to have to watch that video to see what you're talking about. In other words, I've never experienced the bug you mentioned and I've beat the game several times.
  • Armageddon PotatoArmageddon Potato

    Really? Ok at least I've found someone else who has a cart that doesn't seem to have that aforementioned bug. Read the GameFAQ on level 6. CTRL F "poison ladder" to find the glitch part of the faq faster.

    If you've never had it happen, then there must be different versions of the game. GnG was one of the early capcom games and didn't get good quality testing. Maybe they realized the first sets of GnG had a bug that caused the game to be nearly impossible, and released a fixed version later on. I'd really like to know!

    (Also note the bug DOES NOT happen in the video posted)

  • Dr. MorbisDr. Morbis
    I know the bug you're talking about, but it's only a 50/50 for me. Sometimes the invisible red devil appears, sometimes he doesn't, and that's without ever dropping back down to make him disappear as I didn't even know you could do that. (D'Oh!) I really don't know what you do to trigger whether or not it happens, but I'm 100% certain that I've gotten through that point in the video the same way myself.
  • brideckbrideck
    I just beat G 'n G twice through on the 4th for the good ending (lots of continues) and never ran into the glitched ladder either. When I played through it on an emulator a few years back, I think I remember hitting it though.



    It'd be interesting to have someone who knows the game's code analyze a trace of the glitch occurring vs. not occurring to see what's going on there. Bootgod's database doesn't list any hardware revisions on this one, so unless he's mistaken there's some intermittent bug going on here.



    -Brian
  • NationalGameDepotNationalGameDepot
    or maybe it is supposed to be there. Kinda like the continues by accomplishment on Bionic Commando. You prob have to do a certain thing for the Red Devils not to be there. If you don't do that certain thing then you get attacked. Sounds just like part of the puzzle to me. I have never gotten into this game much though, just to damn hard.

    ~~NGD
  • brideckbrideck
    Right, that's the other possibility. Maybe you need to have the right weapon, climb it in the right time window, or have jumped in the right place somewhere else in the level.



    Goodness knows the other secrets in this game are random enough.



    -Brian
  • Armageddon PotatoArmageddon Potato
    This seems like something only capcom would know...  I've actually heard a lot of these ideas, but it doesn't seem likely that it involves using continues, as I've beaten the game 2 times in a row without dying, and it always occurs. I'm not really sure how to NOT get it to occur on my copy of the cart. What's more interesting is that it occurs on the time attack version of NESvideos, but isn't explained or even mentioned in the breakdown of the run. It just seems to always be there when they ran through it so it isn't a big deal. I'd like to get my hands on a cart that doesn't have this happen, unless anyone can discover why it happens beyond guessing? I'll have to do more research...
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