People not leaving Feedback
So, i think im currently at about 10 people who need to leave feedback for completed trades. I have pm'd them- they got the item, or i received it more than a week ago. I have left positive feedback, in most cases i sent a friendly reminder pm, "hey if your happy with the item could you leave feedback." I usually keep track of trades via the transaction page- but its a pain when its spread across 3 pages. I didn't know if it was possible to have a pop up when logging in that notified people they have recieved feedback could they leave some.
Comments
E.g. for me the fact that I have several people commenting both that I pay instantly AND that I'm easy and trusthworthy to deal with even though I'm outside of the US is much much more valuable than if my feedback number were a bit higher or lower. I fear automated feedback ultimately leads to no-one bothering to leave any actual feedback at all, so I don't support this - I much rather keep reminding my sellers/buyers.
Nowhere have I seen where it is required to leave feedback after a NA transaction, sure it's encouraged and a good thing to do.
But leaving automatic feedback is 10000000% crap in my opinion.
Leaving feedback has always been voluntary and anything less than voluntary feedback makes the whole feedback system more suspect and trivial.
Having feedback forced would be total and complete bullshit and I personally would no longer accept any NA transactions if I was forced to agree to some BS automatic feedback bullshit.
Simple truth, leaving feedback is NOT required. It's a nice thing to do, but not required.
While Paul is obviously staunchly against people getting their deserved feedback in a "mandatory" manner, I like the idea of a 60-day rule or something like that.
I mean, seriously, if you take the time to complete a transaction immediately and go over the top to make sure all is right for the buyer, I believe you are entitled to some sort of feedback (ESPECIALLY as a new guy trying to gain a rep).
Think about it: If you mess up on a sale or outright screw someone over, they certainly take the time, without question, to bring the problem up to the mods, leave negative feedback, etc. And that's absolutely what should happen.
Likewise, if you do your best to complete a transaction in a very successful manner, I think you deserve the same kind of attention (of course, in a good way). This goes double for when you've taken the time out of your own day to go ahead and make sure the other person has gotten their deserved feedback.
It's just simple etiquette. That simple. I see so many forms of good etiquette being enforced on a daily basis here on NA, I wouldn't think it's completely off the grid to suggest that people reciprocate in a reasonable manner in the feedback arena.
It may seem over the top to say so, but not leaving a positive when it's due is 100% lazy and selfish.
I really don't see how auto feedback would make the system any less valid. If you have a problem with the transaction, you're going to report it, leave a neg, whatever. If the tranny went as planned your either going to leave good feedback or none at all.
If the auto feedback was something Generic and obvious to spot, I think it would be beneficial. Getting no sort of feedback for being a good seller/buyer kind of sucks.
I guess it doesn't really matter to the guys that have 100+ feedback. But for all the new guys trying to build rapport, they need that feedback.
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
We don't allow name-calling or the like here. Is that illegal? No, it's just not nice.
We yell at folks here for discussing a seller's prices within their sales thread. Why? Because, again, it's poor etiquette.
None of the above things are life-changing if they are done, yet we have rules for them to make this a nicer place to interact.
So why, all of the sudden, are we so against doing something nice? I don't get it. Why take such a stance against doing what is proper? Just to argue? To be hard-headed? I'm just not sure I've seen a good reason why you're so against mandatory feedback. Because it somehow hurts the feedback system? Gimme a break. So do illicit negatives, but we don't remove those. I mean, c'mon. Is it that hard to understand that we have feedback so buyers/sellers can gauge whether to do business with someone? If it's so meaningless, why have it all?
Nowhere does it state by accepting this transaction you are required to leave feedback.
It's proper etiquette to leave it hell it's even recommended in the NA FAQ to leave honest feedback once you receive an item/complete a transaction but it's not required.
I never said I was against doing something nice, but doing something nice would be leaving feedback without being forced to.
Originally posted by: Paul
Again, why should someone be forced to leave you feedback?
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
No because feedback matters. This site even has rules for trading with people that have less than 10 feedback. So it's part of the system. When people don't leave feedback it affects your status.
I don't think you're looking at this from a newbies perspective. It doesn't matter for us. We've been here, traded, and can do all the deals we want. I have no problem gifting or trading hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with other members with high feedback. Feedback to us is another meaningless number. So yeah it would be lame if I just wanted more feedback for the sake of increasing that number beside my name.
But these new guys need that. I remember selling with low feedback and it sucked. People were uneasy, wanted me to send traded items first, etc. Having a system in place that gives those guys some feedback for their transactions might be a good thing.
Just my two cents.
Originally posted by: Mog
I've had the idea of feedback not being added to your account until both parties have left feedback. This will encourage people to leave feedback (since they wont have any if they dont leave any) and will also eliminate retaliatory feedback since you won't be able to see your feedback until both are final.
I like this idea.
Originally posted by: RetroSauce
Originally posted by: Paul
Again, why should someone be forced to leave you feedback?
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
No because feedback matters. This site even has rules for trading with people that have less than 10 feedback. So it's part of the system. When people don't leave feedback it affects your status.
I don't think you're looking at this from a newbies perspective. It doesn't matter for us. We've been here, traded, and can do all the deals we want. I have no problem gifting or trading hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with other members with high feedback. Feedback to us is another meaningless number. So yeah it would be lame if I just wanted more feedback for the sake of increasing that number beside my name.
But these new guys need that. I remember selling with low feedback and it sucked. People were uneasy, wanted me to send traded items first, etc. Having a system in place that gives those guys some feedback for their transactions might be a good thing.
Just my two cents.
Past the first transaction with a person, feedback is pointless. Past that, who cares? Half of the transaction I do here don't have an actual NA transaction. Why? Because it doesn't add up after you've done a deal with someone. Just like ebay - feedback is nice, but isn't required.
Originally posted by: RetroSauce
Originally posted by: Paul
Again, why should someone be forced to leave you feedback?
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
No because feedback matters. This site even has rules for trading with people that have less than 10 feedback. So it's part of the system. When people don't leave feedback it affects your status.
I don't think you're looking at this from a newbies perspective. It doesn't matter for us. We've been here, traded, and can do all the deals we want. I have no problem gifting or trading hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with other members with high feedback. Feedback to us is another meaningless number. So yeah it would be lame if I just wanted more feedback for the sake of increasing that number beside my name.
But these new guys need that. I remember selling with low feedback and it sucked. People were uneasy, wanted me to send traded items first, etc. Having a system in place that gives those guys some feedback for their transactions might be a good thing.
Just my two cents.
This.
Also, I like Mog's idea of mutual feedback.
However, it would be nice if there was a reminder somewhere that's more "in your face". I sometimes forget for awhile because the reminder is hidden in that "my home" link. It should light up red like when you have a new message and stay there until you "clear your queue" of feedback to be left.
dra600n also makes a great point. A bunch of my transactions are with the same members--they don't really mean anything. However, I do them sometimes just as a way to boost my coins since some punkass left me low, retaliatory feedback one time, and that still bugs me, haha.
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: RetroSauce
Originally posted by: Paul
Again, why should someone be forced to leave you feedback?
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
No because feedback matters. This site even has rules for trading with people that have less than 10 feedback. So it's part of the system. When people don't leave feedback it affects your status.
I don't think you're looking at this from a newbies perspective. It doesn't matter for us. We've been here, traded, and can do all the deals we want. I have no problem gifting or trading hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with other members with high feedback. Feedback to us is another meaningless number. So yeah it would be lame if I just wanted more feedback for the sake of increasing that number beside my name.
But these new guys need that. I remember selling with low feedback and it sucked. People were uneasy, wanted me to send traded items first, etc. Having a system in place that gives those guys some feedback for their transactions might be a good thing.
Just my two cents.
Past the first transaction with a person, feedback is pointless. Past that, who cares? Half of the transaction I do here don't have an actual NA transaction. Why? Because it doesn't add up after you've done a deal with someone. Just like ebay - feedback is nice, but isn't required.
This coming from someone that has 162 feedback rating. It's real easy for you to be all "yeah whatever, nobody should care", but I bet you damn well did care during those first few transactions. Like Retrosauce said, having little or no feedback does have an effect on how the transaction system works on this site.
Originally posted by: Firebrandx
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: RetroSauce
Originally posted by: Paul
Again, why should someone be forced to leave you feedback?
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
No because feedback matters. This site even has rules for trading with people that have less than 10 feedback. So it's part of the system. When people don't leave feedback it affects your status.
I don't think you're looking at this from a newbies perspective. It doesn't matter for us. We've been here, traded, and can do all the deals we want. I have no problem gifting or trading hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with other members with high feedback. Feedback to us is another meaningless number. So yeah it would be lame if I just wanted more feedback for the sake of increasing that number beside my name.
But these new guys need that. I remember selling with low feedback and it sucked. People were uneasy, wanted me to send traded items first, etc. Having a system in place that gives those guys some feedback for their transactions might be a good thing.
Just my two cents.
Past the first transaction with a person, feedback is pointless. Past that, who cares? Half of the transaction I do here don't have an actual NA transaction. Why? Because it doesn't add up after you've done a deal with someone. Just like ebay - feedback is nice, but isn't required.
This coming from someone that has 162 feedback rating. It's real easy for you to be all "yeah whatever, nobody should care", but I bet you damn well did care during those first few transactions. Like Retrosauce said, having little or no feedback does have an effect on how the transaction system works on this site.
Even when I had 2 feedback, I still didn't care. If you feel that a magical number clearly defines a persons integrity, then you'll be sorely disappointed in the future. How does a low feedback score affect a persons transaction? If the person is shady and doesn't ship the item, the HoS is there for those reasons, plus PayPal will resolve these issues. The only time it *might* affect someone is with a trade scenario, but that's really up to both parties to agree on the terms. My 2nd transaction was a trade, and I had zero issues with 1 or 2 feedback and no feedback for reference on other sites. I fail to see your logic.
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Firebrandx
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: RetroSauce
Originally posted by: Paul
Again, why should someone be forced to leave you feedback?
The feedback system is not mandatory. So why should it be forced on people?
Because you guys want feedback? LAME
No because feedback matters. This site even has rules for trading with people that have less than 10 feedback. So it's part of the system. When people don't leave feedback it affects your status.
I don't think you're looking at this from a newbies perspective. It doesn't matter for us. We've been here, traded, and can do all the deals we want. I have no problem gifting or trading hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with other members with high feedback. Feedback to us is another meaningless number. So yeah it would be lame if I just wanted more feedback for the sake of increasing that number beside my name.
But these new guys need that. I remember selling with low feedback and it sucked. People were uneasy, wanted me to send traded items first, etc. Having a system in place that gives those guys some feedback for their transactions might be a good thing.
Just my two cents.
Past the first transaction with a person, feedback is pointless. Past that, who cares? Half of the transaction I do here don't have an actual NA transaction. Why? Because it doesn't add up after you've done a deal with someone. Just like ebay - feedback is nice, but isn't required.
This coming from someone that has 162 feedback rating. It's real easy for you to be all "yeah whatever, nobody should care", but I bet you damn well did care during those first few transactions. Like Retrosauce said, having little or no feedback does have an effect on how the transaction system works on this site.
Even when I had 2 feedback, I still didn't care. If you feel that a magical number clearly defines a persons integrity, then you'll be sorely disappointed in the future. How does a low feedback score affect a persons transaction? If the person is shady and doesn't ship the item, the HoS is there for those reasons, plus PayPal will resolve these issues. The only time it *might* affect someone is with a trade scenario, but that's really up to both parties to agree on the terms. My 2nd transaction was a trade, and I had zero issues with 1 or 2 feedback and no feedback for reference on other sites. I fail to see your logic.
I remember when I had under 10 feedback and I was trading with Kevinu. He asked me to ship first which I agreed to because it was in the rules and he had good feedback. It took him 2 months to ship my game. Because I was new and had low feedback, I didn't feel like I was in a position to complain or call him out.
You can say feedback is meaningless all you want, but we all know that isn't true. I'm not going to ship hundreds of dollars worth of stuff to a new guy from France with no feedback. I'm not going to trade 500+ worth of stuff with anyone under 50 feedback or unless I really know them and trust them. Feedback comes into play more often than you think. After all, that is why it is there.
Clearly you didn't read the whole section I wrote about feedback not mattering after a certain point. Again, for us it doesn't. For us it just a number that keeps getting bigger. While I'm not going to lie, I do enjoy seeing my feedback increase, I acknowledge that it's meaningless after 100 or so trannys. But when you have low feedback and only trade a couple times a month, it's crucial to get that sparse feedback when you can.
Anyways, I don't think this topic was meant to turn into a debate on wether feedback matters or not. I'm in favor of Mogs suggestion or giving generic positive feedback to give a little cred to those who have done a good transaction, but have nothing to show.
Originally posted by: RetroSauce
I remember when I had under 10 feedback and I was trading with Kevinu. He asked me to ship first which I agreed to because it was in the rules and he had good feedback. It took him 2 months to ship my game. Because I was new and had low feedback, I didn't feel like I was in a position to complain or call him out.
You can say feedback is meaningless all you want, but we all know that isn't true. I'm not going to ship hundreds of dollars worth of stuff to a new guy from France with no feedback. I'm not going to trade 500+ worth of stuff with anyone under 50 feedback or unless I really know them and trust them. Feedback comes into play more often than you think. After all, that is why it is there.
Clearly you didn't read the whole section I wrote about feedback not mattering after a certain point. Again, for us it doesn't. For us it just a number that keeps getting bigger. While I'm not going to lie, I do enjoy seeing my feedback increase, I acknowledge that it's meaningless after 100 or so trannys. But when you have low feedback and only trade a couple times a month, it's crucial to get that sparse feedback when you can.
Anyways, I don't think this topic was meant to turn into a debate on wether feedback matters or not. I'm in favor of Mogs suggestion or giving generic positive feedback to give a little cred to those who have done a good transaction, but have nothing to show.
Understandable. Like I mentioned, it only affects a potential trade. I think the whole shipping first thing is bogus to begin with and both parties should ship at the same time. There have been members with high feedback that had scammed people out of hundreds of dollars, so the amount of feedback is really just arbitrary. And like you, I enjoy seeing my feedback score going up, but at the same time, I'll send a nice quick message as a reminder, and if someone doesn't leave feedback, it doesn't bother me, much like most people.
When dealing with hundreds of dollars worth of items for trade, you should be careful when dealing with someone, regardless of feedback rating. I wouldn't send any signficant value of items for a trade without some sort of absolute protection - be it the cash value through paypal until the the transaction is 100% complete, or driving a few hours to do the deal in person.
Originally posted by: Paul
Why do you guys think leaving feedback is required?
Nowhere have I seen where it is required to leave feedback after a NA transaction, sure it's encouraged and a good thing to do.
But leaving automatic feedback is 10000000% crap in my opinion.
Leaving feedback has always been voluntary and anything less than voluntary feedback makes the whole feedback system more suspect and trivial.
Having feedback forced would be total and complete bullshit and I personally would no longer accept any NA transactions if I was forced to agree to some BS automatic feedback bullshit.
Simple truth, leaving feedback is NOT required. It's a nice thing to do, but not required.
I agree with Paul.
Although leaving feedback helps keep the community informed and safe, it is 100% up to the buyer/seller to leave it or not.
The best that you can do is request for feedback to be given and state that you will leave feedback in return.
One thing about this I've thought of doing is a one-time nudge to consider leaving feedback, in the form of a PM/email (depending on the settings they have enabled).
I think that is a good idea- but I generally pm people if time has gone by and I know they have received it.
What about if they don't leave feedback, it doesn't count as unique transaction for them? That way if they want to leave feedback it is of benefit to them, however the coins still count.