NES short cart mod "prototype" - WARNING AMATEUR
Heh, so as I warn in the title, this is just a silly chop job of a common NES cart, using tools I had available, (including some toe nail clippers).
Image file is attached to this post.
The basic idea:
_________
| | _________ _________
| | _ | | = | _ _ _ _ |
| | |_________| | |
| | '--------------'
'--------------'
Which I find more visually appealing than the large NES carts, something like a Famicom cart but which is functional on a US 101 top loader (not requiring the long length that the Toaster needs for you to reach the cartridge port).
This is purely a cosmetic mod and as such I would obviously figure out a better (seamless) method of making these, because this cut-up super glued version is not very impressive. This is just to give me an idea of how it looks and feels at this scale, (and also to give myself some immediate and concrete gratification with the object in hand).
This is not intended to be useful to anybody. I'd just like to have a collection of 10 or 12 of my favorite games, on my desk with the top loader, and having some exotic looking compact form to them.
...The simplest process I've imagined would be to make a silicone mold of the fully assembled short cart, (PCB and all) and then entirely encase the game PCB (except for the copper leads) in solid cast resin!!!!!
This would yeild a pretty heavy cart and it would look like a huge piece of hard candy, (Alumilite clear casting resin with color dye added, which I have used before), with the PCB visible inside. ... Casting solid would just make it a much easier job, avoiding the engineering problem of getting all the bevels and mounts to mate between the two halves.
Would it be safe to encase the PCB this way? ... I feel like I've seen something similar done with a homebrew Vectrex game, where they basically dipped the PCB in liquid rubber (except for the leads), and distributed it this way, instead of in a cart case. ... Obviously you would lose access to the battery in this situation, but most games don't have them.
Do game PCB's generate heat? How ridiculous would it be to encase in plastic?
Image file is attached to this post.
The basic idea:
_________
| | _________ _________
| | _ | | = | _ _ _ _ |
| | |_________| | |
| | '--------------'
'--------------'
Which I find more visually appealing than the large NES carts, something like a Famicom cart but which is functional on a US 101 top loader (not requiring the long length that the Toaster needs for you to reach the cartridge port).
This is purely a cosmetic mod and as such I would obviously figure out a better (seamless) method of making these, because this cut-up super glued version is not very impressive. This is just to give me an idea of how it looks and feels at this scale, (and also to give myself some immediate and concrete gratification with the object in hand).
This is not intended to be useful to anybody. I'd just like to have a collection of 10 or 12 of my favorite games, on my desk with the top loader, and having some exotic looking compact form to them.
...The simplest process I've imagined would be to make a silicone mold of the fully assembled short cart, (PCB and all) and then entirely encase the game PCB (except for the copper leads) in solid cast resin!!!!!
This would yeild a pretty heavy cart and it would look like a huge piece of hard candy, (Alumilite clear casting resin with color dye added, which I have used before), with the PCB visible inside. ... Casting solid would just make it a much easier job, avoiding the engineering problem of getting all the bevels and mounts to mate between the two halves.
Would it be safe to encase the PCB this way? ... I feel like I've seen something similar done with a homebrew Vectrex game, where they basically dipped the PCB in liquid rubber (except for the leads), and distributed it this way, instead of in a cart case. ... Obviously you would lose access to the battery in this situation, but most games don't have them.
Do game PCB's generate heat? How ridiculous would it be to encase in plastic?
Comments
Sawing the games in half seems like more work than it's worth, not to mention it's always sad to see original games destroyed.
Or you could buy some cheap Famicom cart lots and make those cases work for you,
but honestly NES chips are quite resilient. I used to take out the chips and wrap them in clear tape and play them for years
on my portable Game Axe system.
In order to make a clean and seamless mold of this chopped up "master", I would cover the whole cart (except for the lower portion that needs to fit in the console slot) with a thin sheet of plastic or even paper, to cover up the seam from the cut.
... I don't think Famicom carts are going to fit properly in a NES console, even if I somehow got a NES PCB mounted in it. ... But I suppose if I'm already talking about casting a hacked up shell, I could do the same thing with a Famicom case, retrofitted with the end of a NES case. ... Doesn't seem as clean and straightforward to me though.
Thanks for your feedback spoonman.
It's a cool idea for top loading systems, but these short carts would require an adapter or game genie to fit in a front loader (like what I have).
Originally posted by: thegnome
This seems like something that 3D printing would be more suitable for...
Yes of course but i do not have a 3D printer. The college campus near me has one but unfortunitely they do not give access to unenrolled pizza drivers from the neighborhood ... not even for a project as important as this one.
... Maybe one day everyone will do everything with a 3D printer.
Originally posted by: gliptitude
Originally posted by: thegnome
This seems like something that 3D printing would be more suitable for...
Yes of course but i do not have a 3D printer. The college campus near me has one but unfortunitely they do not give access to unenrolled pizza drivers from the neighborhood ... not even for a project as important as this one.
... Maybe one day everyone will do everything with a 3D printer.
There are services which let you 3D print on demand. You just need to draw up the object...
Originally posted by: gliptitude
Originally posted by: thegnome
This seems like something that 3D printing would be more suitable for...
Yes of course but i do not have a 3D printer. The college campus near me has one but unfortunitely they do not give access to unenrolled pizza drivers from the neighborhood ... not even for a project as important as this one.
... Maybe one day everyone will do everything with a 3D printer.
You don't need a 3-D printer, and I think you're on the right track. All you need to do is make cleaner cuts (take the carts apart, remove the boards, etc, and then put them back together, use a level and mark, then make the cuts straight and level with the top and bottom of the cart).
After you make the cuts, remove the unnecessary portion of the cart (the part you cut away), use a temporary fastener to keep the two parts of the "new" cart together, and then use a fiberglass patch kit, or even spackle to smooth out the cut line (try to make sure you cut in a spot where this will work...)
after that, paint the cart and make a new sticker for it...viola...sweet, new short cart (LOVE this idea...)
Originally posted by: MalcolmXY
You don't need a 3-D printer, and I think you're on the right track. All you need to do is make cleaner cuts (take the carts apart, remove the boards, etc, and then put them back together, use a level and mark, then make the cuts straight and level with the top and bottom of the cart).
After you make the cuts, remove the unnecessary portion of the cart (the part you cut away), use a temporary fastener to keep the two parts of the "new" cart together, and then use a fiberglass patch kit, or even spackle to smooth out the cut line (try to make sure you cut in a spot where this will work...)
after that, paint the cart and make a new sticker for it...viola...sweet, new short cart (LOVE this idea...)
Thanks for this advice. That does sound like a viable process. ... But I worked on the idea a bit more and did some drawings and am leaning a different direction for a couple reasons...
First of all I am very wary of painting and I very much prefer the prospect of casting, (in color). I can cast the part in resin with an evenly mixed (and engineered) dye, which yields an entire part that is that color throughout. So there is no surface to eventually fail and wear off. Also there is no research or experimentation with different paints in this method and I can be confident the finish is good forever. Also making a mould would only require me to make one or two (tediously) hacked up original carts. The rest would just be cast from the mould. (Not sure if you were suggesting a technique for making every cart or still one just for casting)
There are probably as many plastics and casting options as there are paint sytems, and I don't really have the time, motivation or facility to consider these either. My choice of Alumilite CLEAR is based on that material being easily attainable and well documented, something I have used before, and the clear is more reliable and predictable than the opaque Alumilite. ... In this application I don't need to acquire or devise a pressure casting set-up, because the Alumilite clear tends to fill the mold without any surface air bubbles, (probably because it takes much longer than the opaque to cure). It does yield tiny bubbles below the surface and throughout the part, which are visible since the part is clear. But it's an acceptable look in this application.
Casting a solid cart rather than casting the two seperate halves and the whole internal assembly is my idea for two different reasons. First, I'm not sure if the Alumilite that I'm poised to use would have sufficient properties for the two casted parts to mate and have proper strength and rigidity. Second, there is a lot of accuracy required between the two halves, which I think might even be different for different games (seating different size and shape PCB's), and also I really wouldn't have any room at all for error in my cuts between the two halves.
My cutting method definitely needs to be improved. I'm thinking something involving a saw that slides on a (level) track, on a level table, would be best. Also the cuts would be made while the cart was still assembled, so that it would match between the two halves. ... For my original prototype I actually made all my cuts with a drafting knife, (and toe nail clippers for the edges)!!! ... I could definitely use more advice in a cutting set-up.
... My revised casting plan involves making TWO different moulds using two different short carts, each of which have the cut (seam) in a different place. So I would make a partial casted part in one mould, and then remove it and put it in the other mould to finish the pour - seamless!
I'm a guy who has lots of projects going and most of them take me forever to finish, if they ever get finished at all. ... But this short cart mod is simple enough and fun enough that I think I will be able to do it fairly quickly. I've been looking for an excuse to do another casting project for a long time.
Originally posted by: gliptitude
... I could definitely use more advice in a cutting set-up.
First off, yeah. What you described would work out just fine. My idea was quicker and dirtier based on what you did with your prototype, but if you wanna machine casts (or have that part done for you) and cast your own custom carts, that would definitely work, and be a lot cleaner final product.
For saws, it sounds like you need a chop saw with a height adjustment. A table saw will be too shallow, and a circular saw won't offer you the stability and uniform cutting on every cart that a chop saw will.
Just make sure you make your cart cast the extra width of the saw blade you're using for whatever saw you get, because that's up to a 1/4" that's gonna go away when you cut, and that could mess up your final cart significantly if you don't account for it.
Good luck.
Originally posted by: MalcolmXY
Originally posted by: gliptitude
... I could definitely use more advice in a cutting set-up.
First off, yeah. What you described would work out just fine. My idea was quicker and dirtier based on what you did with your prototype, but if you wanna machine casts (or have that part done for you) and cast your own custom carts, that would definitely work, and be a lot cleaner final product.
For saws, it sounds like you need a chop saw with a height adjustment. A table saw will be too shallow, and a circular saw won't offer you the stability and uniform cutting on every cart that a chop saw will.
Just make sure you make your cart cast the extra width of the saw blade you're using for whatever saw you get, because that's up to a 1/4" that's gonna go away when you cut, and that could mess up your final cart significantly if you don't account for it.
Good luck.
Don't even think about cutting it with a chop saw or table saw the second the blade hits the plastic it starts melting binds then shatters. There is potential that it will pull your finger towards the blade as it does too. I have tons of experience with chop saws and table saws it's my job and I have tried cutting cart shells with many things.
Your best bet is to set up a little wooden jig on your bench to hold down your cart shell, screw down some sort of straight edge guide, metal ruler or similar and repeatedly score it with a utility knife till you can either snap it or cut all the way through. Take your time and you will get nice results, use a fine grit wet sand paper to finish the edges after.
Originally posted by: marvelus10
Don't even think about cutting it with a chop saw or table saw the second the blade hits the plastic it starts melting binds then shatters. There is potential that it will pull your finger towards the blade as it does too. I have tons of experience with chop saws and table saws it's my job and I have tried cutting cart shells with many things.
Your best bet is to set up a little wooden jig on your bench to hold down your cart shell, screw down some sort of straight edge guide, metal ruler or similar and repeatedly score it with a utility knife till you can either snap it or cut all the way through. Take your time and you will get nice results, use a fine grit wet sand paper to finish the edges after.
I was not sold on the chop saw, but was considering it. ... A few of your concerns would be accounted for with some precautions I would take, (at no point was I considering holding the NES cart under there with my hands).
... I had imagined that there was a special saw blade designed for cutting plastic?
Really I had imagined something like a MINIATURE version of the upright sliding track saws they use at Home Depot, except laying flat rather than upright, and having a much smaller sawing element.
... For my prototype I did use a large X-acto knife (and steel rule), which is not much different than a untility knife. It's not crazy to do this on the front and back of the cart, but it gets pretty hairy trying to cut the edges of the cart. Also I found it necessary to make cuts from the inside, which was impossible to do perfectly.
Don't you think there is a better tool for this?
Originally posted by: gliptitude
Originally posted by: marvelus10
Don't even think about cutting it with a chop saw or table saw the second the blade hits the plastic it starts melting binds then shatters. There is potential that it will pull your finger towards the blade as it does too. I have tons of experience with chop saws and table saws it's my job and I have tried cutting cart shells with many things.
Your best bet is to set up a little wooden jig on your bench to hold down your cart shell, screw down some sort of straight edge guide, metal ruler or similar and repeatedly score it with a utility knife till you can either snap it or cut all the way through. Take your time and you will get nice results, use a fine grit wet sand paper to finish the edges after.
I was not sold on the chop saw, but was considering it. ... A few of your concerns would be accounted for with some precautions I would take, (at no point was I considering holding the NES cart under there with my hands).
... I had imagined that there was a special saw blade designed for cutting plastic?
Really I had imagined something like a MINIATURE version of the upright sliding track saws they use at Home Depot, except laying flat rather than upright, and having a much smaller sawing element.
... For my prototype I did use a large X-acto knife (and steel rule), which is not much different than a untility knife. It's not crazy to do this on the front and back of the cart, but it gets pretty hairy trying to cut the edges of the cart. Also I found it necessary to make cuts from the inside, which was impossible to do perfectly.
Don't you think there is a better tool for this?
um...yeah. they have a clamp.
I mean, it's cooler when you hold it steady with your hand, making sure to place your thumb over the top of the cart, but only if you're Ronnie Lott.
As far as a blade melting the plastic, I'd listen to that dude before you listen to me. With the exception of thinking those using power tools are complete nincompoops, he sounds infinitely more knowledgeable than I am.
Again, good luck, and watch those appendages around the saws and stuff.
... Have a few ideas for making the CUT less important.
If I am moderately successful or better I will post pics. Maybe I will still post even if I fail.
Originally posted by: gliptitude
Heh, so as I warn in the title, this is just a silly chop job of a common NES cart, using tools I had available, (including some toe nail clippers).
Image file is attached to this post.
The basic idea:
_________
| | _________ _________
| | _ | | = | _ _ _ _ |
| | |_________| | |
| | '--------------'
'--------------'
Which I find more visually appealing than the large NES carts, something like a Famicom cart but which is functional on a US 101 top loader (not requiring the long length that the Toaster needs for you to reach the cartridge port).
This is purely a cosmetic mod and as such I would obviously figure out a better (seamless) method of making these, because this cut-up super glued version is not very impressive. This is just to give me an idea of how it looks and feels at this scale, (and also to give myself some immediate and concrete gratification with the object in hand).
This is not intended to be useful to anybody. I'd just like to have a collection of 10 or 12 of my favorite games, on my desk with the top loader, and having some exotic looking compact form to them.
...The simplest process I've imagined would be to make a silicone mold of the fully assembled short cart, (PCB and all) and then entirely encase the game PCB (except for the copper leads) in solid cast resin!!!!!
This would yeild a pretty heavy cart and it would look like a huge piece of hard candy, (Alumilite clear casting resin with color dye added, which I have used before), with the PCB visible inside. ... Casting solid would just make it a much easier job, avoiding the engineering problem of getting all the bevels and mounts to mate between the two halves.
Would it be safe to encase the PCB this way? ... I feel like I've seen something similar done with a homebrew Vectrex game, where they basically dipped the PCB in liquid rubber (except for the leads), and distributed it this way, instead of in a cart case. ... Obviously you would lose access to the battery in this situation, but most games don't have them.
Do game PCB's generate heat? How ridiculous would it be to encase in plastic?
Have you considered something like the EverDrive N8?
http://krikzz.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=59
If space is an issue or if you just prefer the smaller Famicom footprint, you could buy that and save yourself a lot of modding.
Just use with a Honeybee adapter + top loader.
I've seen some pretty nice label and cart designs for it as well.
Here are a couple that I like.
Just a thought.
Originally posted by: spoonman
Thats sure is a beautiful thing eh!
Originally posted by: spoonman
Have you considered something like the EverDrive N8?
http://krikzz.com/index.php?route=product/product&p...
If space is an issue or if you just prefer the smaller Famicom footprint, you could buy that and save yourself a lot of modding.
Just use with a Honeybee adapter + top loader.
I just want to make something, have fun doing it and hopefully come up with a cool result. I'm not trying to save space and there is no modding to "save myself" from because my goal is to mod something. ... Like I said in my last post I already bought the materials and I am committed to attempting this now.
The idea behind my design is that it will look cool and original and that it will display nicely. ... I'm not saying that it's the most original idea or that it's never been done, but it will be a custom result and unrecognizable to 98% of the people who played NES back in the day, including all of my friends. So it will be a neat thing for show, and I will enjoy playing it more because I made it look this way.
The photos I posted in the beginning do not reflect the quality of my intended process. If my end result looks no better than that, it will have been a failure.
Originally posted by: gliptitude
Originally posted by: spoonman
Have you considered something like the EverDrive N8?
http://krikzz.com/index.php?route=product/product&produc...
If space is an issue or if you just prefer the smaller Famicom footprint, you could buy that and save yourself a lot of modding.
Just use with a Honeybee adapter + top loader.
I just want to make something, have fun doing it and hopefully come up with a cool result. I'm not trying to save space and there is no modding to "save myself" from because my goal is to mod something. ... Like I said in my last post I already bought the materials and I am committed to attempting this now.
The idea behind my design is that it will look cool and original and that it will display nicely. ... I'm not saying that it's the most original idea or that it's never been done, but it will be a custom result and unrecognizable to 98% of the people who played NES back in the day, including all of my friends. So it will be a neat thing for show, and I will enjoy playing it more because I made it look this way.
The photos I posted in the beginning do not reflect the quality of my intended process. If my end result looks no better than that, it will have been a failure.
Totally understandable.
If you are having fun with it then by all means go for it.
Good luck and keep us posted with your results.
The good news is that I eventually encased a game pcb (Marble Madness) in clear resin, and eventually got that game to play properly in my NES 101.
The bad news is that the result is full of blemishes and that I basically had to destroy the mold to get the casted part out of it.
I will probably make a second attempt at this in the near future.
If anyone expresses interest I will explain the process and the complications.
The only drawback I see is none of the longer PCBs will fit. Boards that use MMC5 for instance.
Would it be easier to base your NES short cart around Famicom cart shells?
Originally posted by: Guntz
It's a decent idea, hopefully it eventually turns into new carts for sale.
The only drawback I see is none of the longer PCBs will fit. Boards that use MMC5 for instance.
Would it be easier to base your NES short cart around Famicom cart shells?
Aw well, my process is not commercially viable. It is pretty costly to do this and selling is not a reasonable goal.
I've never seen the longer PCB's to which you refer. Are there licensed games that use them?
I have learned that spoonman was not way off base with the 3D printing idea. A friend of a friend of a friend of mine recently purchased his own 3D printer for about $1200. So I imagine that I ought to be able to afford having one object 3D printed. Doubt though that it makes sense to 3D print every item. Also this process does not seem as fun to me as casting.
... Famicom cart shells might work better for the wide part of the cart, but there has to be the precise fitting at the end, to register with the USA cart slot. ... Part of the problem with my method is the textured surface of the US carts. The mold material picks up that surface detail and it doesn't translate well into my casted part. A smooth surface would be much better.
I could use a totally different object for the bulk of the case but my original idea was based on the old US NES carts because I thought it was recognizable and iconic.
Here are some US NES PCBs that are pretty long:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/image.php?ImageID=1673
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/image.php?ImageID=1582
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/image.php?ImageID=1370
What I meant by the Famicom cart is you could use them as a height reference.
My project is not easily repeatable, in it's detail, as it involves casting around a PCB and completely encasing it. But of course a more practical system would involve a modular case that fit together with screws, around the PCB.
I think I got what you were saying with the famicom carts, that I would make a partial cast basically. That's how it would work with my current process anyway.
... I couldn't get the pics you linked to load.
Originally posted by: gliptitude
Hmm. What is a metal casting and how do I go about getting one? What are the advantages of this?
My project is not easily repeatable, in it's detail, as it involves casting around a PCB and completely encasing it. But of course a more practical system would involve a modular case that fit together with screws, around the PCB.
I think I got what you were saying with the famicom carts, that I would make a partial cast basically. That's how it would work with my current process anyway.
... I couldn't get the pics you linked to load.
Someone already said what a metal casting case is. It's used for final production of plastic shells. You still have to use something to make a mold, to make the metal case out of.
The idea is you do the molding once and then turn to manufacturing to make perfect copies many times over. It's probably a silly suggestion to make, but it's worth mentioning.
Sorry about the pics. The board types I wanted to link to are ELROM, EKROM and ETROM. Here's some example carts they are found in:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1220
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=929
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1031
Originally posted by: WhatULive4
Check out this project. He has a bunch of videos describing the whole process. He made some really good cases from the originals for the sc3000 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJD4ZeVzn3s
My internet is too slow to really watch these videos (at home anyway), but I did peak at the beginning of the first one. ... That project is close in scale to what I'm trying to do, in terms of the process. He is using different (similar?) mold and cast materials than I am though, which I will look into because the stuff I'm using is pretty expensive.
That I am "encasing" the pcb in solid resin is a pretty crazy aspect of this though, and also an important and fun part of my idea. ... The mold strategy is difficult in this method, and so far my technique is not viable. I have several ideas to re-work it, but the silicone is expensive and ordered from Michigan, so I can't easily do a lot of experiments.
I basically learned early on that this was not going to work how I wanted, but I didn't have enough silicone to start over, so I finished this one with the hope of getting ONE encased pcb cast - so i could at least see if this idea even works, if the pcb works after being encased. ... Lots of little mundane variables in this project.
The biggest problem with what I'm trying to do is designing the mold in such a way that I can get the casted part out safely. My mold is two parts, and I think I can get better results with a THREE part mold.
Metal cast certainly is not in the budget for this little project.
... BTW that mold box you see in my pictures is over $50 in silicone. The single casted cart is about $7 worth of resin. So yeah, I do not plan on making and selling these for a profit.
Originally posted by: Guntz
Sorry about the pics. The board types I wanted to link to are ELROM, EKROM and ETROM. Here's some example carts they are found in:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1220
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=929
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=1031
Thanks, those loaded fine. Those are indeed some large pcb's. Are any of those games any good?
I already have a list of games I want in my short cart collection, and most of them are confirmed to have small enough PCB's.
Metroid
SMB2
Bionic Commando
Marble Madness
Burai Fighter
Contra
Kid Icarus
Clash at Demonhead
Goonies II
Also maybe Punch Out, Bio Force Ape, a Mega Man game and maybe a couple others. Definitely wanted Zelda, but was afraid to mess with any battery save games.