I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
If there was only a "Shut up and give me money" meme
Lots of mang love here mang, keep spreading it on thick. I want to take a 3rd shower after your next post
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
If there was only a "Shut up and give me money" meme
Lots of mang love here mang, keep spreading it on thick. I want to take a 3rd shower after your next post
Mang, its mangii like us mang that make all the manging around totally mang, mang. You mang?
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
If there was only a "Shut up and give me money" meme
Lots of mang love here mang, keep spreading it on thick. I want to take a 3rd shower after your next post
Mang, its mangii like us mang that make all the manging around totally mang, mang. You mang?
I also checked a few random NES games and the scans were very obviously from NA with zero attribution. Why shouldn't I just give NA the money so they can improve their database that you are ripping off?
All I can say is take our proof-of-concept website with a grain of salt. It hardly reflects the restricions and credits systems we'll have in place for 2.0. There is content on our beta that could of either been uploaded as a test or by a user. Please understand that our 1.0 database doesn't reflect out 2.0 database very well at all.
Which doesn't answer the question. If your content comes from somewhere else (stolen, fake "fair use", tests, whatever), why shouldn't I pay the original site instead? DP/NA/AA/GiantBomb/GameFAQs/etc could improve their existing content instead of just being an aggregator, and they are already established and stable.
If 2.0 is so much better, why not show that as well? If there is nothing to show, why ask for donations?
First of all I find it hard to believe anyone would rather support 6+ separate databases to begin with when they can support 1
Then you haven't been paying attention to the gaming community, as that's exactly what we've been doing for 15+ years, happily I might add.
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation. Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference. We are different because our object is to to build a community around the main focus of building a database and cataloging information and the money donated to Archive is going to be used to build our database.
I also checked a few random NES games and the scans were very obviously from NA with zero attribution. Why shouldn't I just give NA the money so they can improve their database that you are ripping off?
All I can say is take our proof-of-concept website with a grain of salt. It hardly reflects the restricions and credits systems we'll have in place for 2.0. There is content on our beta that could of either been uploaded as a test or by a user. Please understand that our 1.0 database doesn't reflect out 2.0 database very well at all.
Which doesn't answer the question. If your content comes from somewhere else (stolen, fake "fair use", tests, whatever), why shouldn't I pay the original site instead? DP/NA/AA/GiantBomb/GameFAQs/etc could improve their existing content instead of just being an aggregator, and they are already established and stable.
If 2.0 is so much better, why not show that as well? If there is nothing to show, why ask for donations?
First of all I find it hard to believe anyone would rather support 6+ separate databases to begin with when they can support 1
Then you haven't been paying attention to the gaming community, as that's exactly what we've been doing for 15+ years, happily I might add.
And for the last 15 years it's been the communitys only option as well. We're proving a new option to combine and unite all that information so users can now happily stop going to 6 different websites to find information about one game. Not only this, but you simply are nitpicking the things I say now and not focusing on the message. We're trying to help these communities and build a new one at the same time.
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation. Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference. We are different because our object is to to build a community around the main focus of building a database and cataloging information and the money donated to Archive is going to be used to build our database.
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation.
Looking at your indiegogo, $0 is allocated towards data validation. Lots to programmers, equipment, advertising, and rewards. Your content section talks about what the games will have, which sets the existing content is ripped from, but not who is getting paid to do new content. None of the 7 people is listed as the guy who will be the typing slave.
If its "the community" doing the data entry, how do you pay them?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference.
Does that show the community who wants the database is too small, or just doesn't care enough?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways?
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation.
Looking at your indiegogo, $0 is allocated towards data validation. Lots to programmers, equipment, advertising, and rewards. Your content section talks about what the games will have, which sets the existing content is ripped from, but not who is getting paid to do new content. None of the 7 people is listed as the guy who will be the typing slave.
If its "the community" doing the data entry, how do you pay them?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference.
Does that show the community who wants the database is too small, or just doesn't care enough?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways?
It's simple. All it means is that there isn't a website that's focused on creating a complete database. We're the website that's trying to build a community thats main focus is on building a complete database.
So the community pays for the website, then the community builds the database for free or steals from other sites, and that database creates the community. See how this just goes in circles? I guess the number of donations will show if that community exists or not!
So the community pays for the website, then the community builds the database for free or steals from other sites, and that database creates the community. See how this just goes in circles? I guess the number of donations will show if that community exists or not!
I think it's rather telling that the only substantial "donation" they've recieved so far is from one of the guys on the dev team.
Also, if the community is building the database, how are you guys planning to keep all of the information factual? Are you planning on doing some sort of an approval process before the info goes up? Seems very Wiki-ish to me.
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
3) I can say with certainty Archive 2.0 is being developed regardless of the success of the Indiegogo project. We have been working on 2.0 for a while now, and we have no plans of stopping. The campaign has a great purpose though. We are at a point where want to speed things up, and get some outside options as well. It could lead to fresh ideas and other undiscovered avenues for the website. The campaign will also help us build our community and bring concerns to light that we may have otherwise overlooked.
I got a good laugh at this one. "If you give us money, we'll work faster on something that's going to be happening either way" to me is kind of a silly rationale to be using when asking for crowdfunding donations. I also get the vibe that you're suggesting funds = outside opinions, which doesn't make a lick of sense to me. That being said, if you're paying money for opinions, I have lots of them... drop me a PM!
And for the last 15 years it's been the communitys only option as well. We're proving a new option to combine and unite all that information so users can now happily stop going to 6 different websites to find information about one game. Not only this, but you simply are nitpicking the things I say now and not focusing on the message. We're trying to help these communities and build a new one at the same time.
Not really seeing why we need a new or better way, is the point plenty of people have beent trying to make. Past examples of this have failed, partly due to the lack of ability to compete with already established site, partly due to too much trying to force the project down everyones throat. This isn't an episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, where you're trying to teach that mean old internet that a group of guys that are new in town can do the job just as well as the boys who have been doing it for years and then, suddenly, everyone sees your worth and accepts you as a vital part of the community. That's not what's happening here.
It's not just that other things already exist and they are theoretically better than this archive you're building, it's a matter of funding nothing for the possibility of something. If you had an already established database on par with MobyGames, let's say, that would be one thing. This crowed funding would be for expanding an already built and established database, would probably fair much better as well. The way it is, it's "give us money for this thing that's hardly 1/4 of the way to finished so we can hurry up!" That...doesn't jive with me and it eveidentally doesn't jive with others.
And you're damn right I'm nitpicking, there are a lot of things off with this entire idea that are either being handwaved away or we are otherwise being encouraged to ignore because mossy 11 is creating the worlds best puff piece, so pay up!
And for the last 15 years it's been the communitys only option as well. We're proving a new option to combine and unite all that information so users can now happily stop going to 6 different websites to find information about one game. Not only this, but you simply are nitpicking the things I say now and not focusing on the message. We're trying to help these communities and build a new one at the same time.
Not really seeing why we need a new or better way, is the point plenty of people have beent trying to make. Past examples of this have failed, partly due to the lack of ability to compete with already established site, partly due to too much trying to force the project down everyones throat. This isn't an episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, where you're trying to teach that mean old internet that a group of guys that are new in town can do the job just as well as the boys who have been doing it for years and then, suddenly, everyone sees your worth and accepts you as a vital part of the community. That's not what's happening here.
It's not just that other things already exist and they are theoretically better than this archive you're building, it's a matter of funding nothing for the possibility of something. If you had an already established database on par with MobyGames, let's say, that would be one thing. This crowed funding would be for expanding an already built and established database, would probably fair much better as well. The way it is, it's "give us money for this thing that's hardly 1/4 of the way to finished so we can hurry up!" That...doesn't jive with me and it eveidentally doesn't jive with others.
And you're damn right I'm nitpicking, there are a lot of things off with this entire idea that are either being handwaved away or we are otherwise being encouraged to ignore because mossy 11 is creating the worlds best puff piece, so pay up!
I can say that we understand a lot of the concerns everyone is having. A lot of aspects of the campaign could definitely be explained better and our roadmap and direction isn't easy to follow from the outside since we're trying to do so much. We have all been working this week to give everyone a better idea of where Archive is now, some of the first steps well be taking after launch and where we plan to go as well as make it very clear for everyone the benefit of the website, and how other communities will benefit from us as well. All I can say is hang tight, we really do appreciate what everyone has been saying, negative and positive, because in the end it will make our project better for everyone.
Since we seem to be having a more rousing discussion over on Digital Press, I'ma suggest anyone interested in this click the link I provided a few posts back for further issues and discussion points bring brought up.
Agreed. Check the DP thread as they bring a lot of questions to the table that aren't mentioned here.
I personally am not sure why these guys need funding from the people, so to speak, and also just have serious doubts about where these guys will be getting their information from. Maybe I am being a bit critical, but here is my point:
Currently, I am writing a book about games and gaming. Where am I getting my information? Old magazine adverts, interviews, game screenshots (which I verified myself phsyically), personal recollections, resumes, etc. When working on a project like this, it is not "good enough" to just steal the generic (common) information from other websites and call it a day. Something more needs to be done.
To put it in another way: I remember back when the internet was just starting to become popular, and I had been running a popular NES fansite. Now I was young and did some really stupid things, but so did many people at that time. Something that stuck with me though was that back then, basically every NES website had a section containing text instruction manuals for games. And the two largest sources for these manuals were from tsr's NES archives and NES World. So basically everyone afterwards just stole those manuals, added a few more of their own contributions, and voila! A new section for the website. Looking back on it, not really a cool thing to do, but everyone was doing this then...
And that is what this project sounds somewhat like to me. Sure, it would be nice to have everything in one location, but just swiping others' hard work and what not, I'm just not diggin it, even if it is just "generic" information that doesn't have to be referenced in the credits.
As for the watermarks and what not, scam away my friends!
edit: Speaking of which, I've been meaning to talk with Dain one of these days about maybe another "Age" site.
Comments
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
If there was only a "Shut up and give me money" meme
Lots of mang love here mang, keep spreading it on thick. I want to take a 3rd shower after your next post
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
If there was only a "Shut up and give me money" meme
Lots of mang love here mang, keep spreading it on thick. I want to take a 3rd shower after your next post
Mang, its mangii like us mang that make all the manging around totally mang, mang. You mang?
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: Dain
Originally posted by: dra600n
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Because NintendoAge doesn't have a kickstarter or indiegogo!
Yeah, buts we gots a mang, mang.
Nah, I just want you to make more games.
If there was only a "Shut up and give me money" meme
Lots of mang love here mang, keep spreading it on thick. I want to take a 3rd shower after your next post
Mang, its mangii like us mang that make all the manging around totally mang, mang. You mang?
*wipes a tear* that was so beautiful
Originally posted by: dra600n
*wipes a tear* that was so beautiful
Now go play Contra.
OP: Sorry for thread-crapping!
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I also checked a few random NES games and the scans were very obviously from NA with zero attribution. Why shouldn't I just give NA the money so they can improve their database that you are ripping off?
All I can say is take our proof-of-concept website with a grain of salt. It hardly reflects the restricions and credits systems we'll have in place for 2.0. There is content on our beta that could of either been uploaded as a test or by a user. Please understand that our 1.0 database doesn't reflect out 2.0 database very well at all.
Which doesn't answer the question. If your content comes from somewhere else (stolen, fake "fair use", tests, whatever), why shouldn't I pay the original site instead? DP/NA/AA/GiantBomb/GameFAQs/etc could improve their existing content instead of just being an aggregator, and they are already established and stable.
If 2.0 is so much better, why not show that as well? If there is nothing to show, why ask for donations?
First of all I find it hard to believe anyone would rather support 6+ separate databases to begin with when they can support 1
Then you haven't been paying attention to the gaming community, as that's exactly what we've been doing for 15+ years, happily I might add.
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation. Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference. We are different because our object is to to build a community around the main focus of building a database and cataloging information and the money donated to Archive is going to be used to build our database.
Originally posted by: JSoup
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I also checked a few random NES games and the scans were very obviously from NA with zero attribution. Why shouldn't I just give NA the money so they can improve their database that you are ripping off?
All I can say is take our proof-of-concept website with a grain of salt. It hardly reflects the restricions and credits systems we'll have in place for 2.0. There is content on our beta that could of either been uploaded as a test or by a user. Please understand that our 1.0 database doesn't reflect out 2.0 database very well at all.
Which doesn't answer the question. If your content comes from somewhere else (stolen, fake "fair use", tests, whatever), why shouldn't I pay the original site instead? DP/NA/AA/GiantBomb/GameFAQs/etc could improve their existing content instead of just being an aggregator, and they are already established and stable.
If 2.0 is so much better, why not show that as well? If there is nothing to show, why ask for donations?
First of all I find it hard to believe anyone would rather support 6+ separate databases to begin with when they can support 1
Then you haven't been paying attention to the gaming community, as that's exactly what we've been doing for 15+ years, happily I might add.
And for the last 15 years it's been the communitys only option as well. We're proving a new option to combine and unite all that information so users can now happily stop going to 6 different websites to find information about one game. Not only this, but you simply are nitpicking the things I say now and not focusing on the message. We're trying to help these communities and build a new one at the same time.
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
I agree existing databases could and should be better, including NA. But that again doesn't answer the question. If I am giving someone money, why wouldn't I give it to the original source?
And since you picked on Zelda here, I updated the listing so there is no unclassified/unknown
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation. Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference. We are different because our object is to to build a community around the main focus of building a database and cataloging information and the money donated to Archive is going to be used to build our database.
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation.
Looking at your indiegogo, $0 is allocated towards data validation. Lots to programmers, equipment, advertising, and rewards. Your content section talks about what the games will have, which sets the existing content is ripped from, but not who is getting paid to do new content. None of the 7 people is listed as the guy who will be the typing slave.
If its "the community" doing the data entry, how do you pay them?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference.
Does that show the community who wants the database is too small, or just doesn't care enough?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways?
Let's test that! http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=8&threadid=107185
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Giving the original source money doesn't change the situation at all. If you donte money to Giantbomb, do you think their perfect dark information will become correct? If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways? Same with Digitpress and other websites. The database most likely won’t change at all, since it is not the focus of most websites anymore. And please do not misinterpret this. I am not criticizing what other websites do with their money, but it is clear that if you want to see a database grow giving existing sources the money won’t change the situation.
Looking at your indiegogo, $0 is allocated towards data validation. Lots to programmers, equipment, advertising, and rewards. Your content section talks about what the games will have, which sets the existing content is ripped from, but not who is getting paid to do new content. None of the 7 people is listed as the guy who will be the typing slave.
If its "the community" doing the data entry, how do you pay them?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
Money will have a small effect or no effect on current databases because it is driven by the community, and since the community focus isn't on completing this information and funds are not allocated to this purpose it will make no difference.
Does that show the community who wants the database is too small, or just doesn't care enough?
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
If money was donated to NA would it go to the database or would to be used to develop the website in other ways?
Let's test that! http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=...
It's simple. All it means is that there isn't a website that's focused on creating a complete database. We're the website that's trying to build a community thats main focus is on building a complete database.
Originally posted by: bunnyboy
So the community pays for the website, then the community builds the database for free or steals from other sites, and that database creates the community. See how this just goes in circles? I guess the number of donations will show if that community exists or not!
I think it's rather telling that the only substantial "donation" they've recieved so far is from one of the guys on the dev team.
Also, if the community is building the database, how are you guys planning to keep all of the information factual? Are you planning on doing some sort of an approval process before the info goes up? Seems very Wiki-ish to me.
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
3) I can say with certainty Archive 2.0 is being developed regardless of the success of the Indiegogo project. We have been working on 2.0 for a while now, and we have no plans of stopping. The campaign has a great purpose though. We are at a point where want to speed things up, and get some outside options as well. It could lead to fresh ideas and other undiscovered avenues for the website. The campaign will also help us build our community and bring concerns to light that we may have otherwise overlooked.
I got a good laugh at this one. "If you give us money, we'll work faster on something that's going to be happening either way" to me is kind of a silly rationale to be using when asking for crowdfunding donations. I also get the vibe that you're suggesting funds = outside opinions, which doesn't make a lick of sense to me. That being said, if you're paying money for opinions, I have lots of them... drop me a PM!
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
And for the last 15 years it's been the communitys only option as well. We're proving a new option to combine and unite all that information so users can now happily stop going to 6 different websites to find information about one game. Not only this, but you simply are nitpicking the things I say now and not focusing on the message. We're trying to help these communities and build a new one at the same time.
Not really seeing why we need a new or better way, is the point plenty of people have beent trying to make. Past examples of this have failed, partly due to the lack of ability to compete with already established site, partly due to too much trying to force the project down everyones throat. This isn't an episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, where you're trying to teach that mean old internet that a group of guys that are new in town can do the job just as well as the boys who have been doing it for years and then, suddenly, everyone sees your worth and accepts you as a vital part of the community. That's not what's happening here.
It's not just that other things already exist and they are theoretically better than this archive you're building, it's a matter of funding nothing for the possibility of something. If you had an already established database on par with MobyGames, let's say, that would be one thing. This crowed funding would be for expanding an already built and established database, would probably fair much better as well. The way it is, it's "give us money for this thing that's hardly 1/4 of the way to finished so we can hurry up!" That...doesn't jive with me and it eveidentally doesn't jive with others.
And you're damn right I'm nitpicking, there are a lot of things off with this entire idea that are either being handwaved away or we are otherwise being encouraged to ignore because mossy 11 is creating the worlds best puff piece, so pay up!
Originally posted by: JSoup
Originally posted by: HappehLemons
And for the last 15 years it's been the communitys only option as well. We're proving a new option to combine and unite all that information so users can now happily stop going to 6 different websites to find information about one game. Not only this, but you simply are nitpicking the things I say now and not focusing on the message. We're trying to help these communities and build a new one at the same time.
Not really seeing why we need a new or better way, is the point plenty of people have beent trying to make. Past examples of this have failed, partly due to the lack of ability to compete with already established site, partly due to too much trying to force the project down everyones throat. This isn't an episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, where you're trying to teach that mean old internet that a group of guys that are new in town can do the job just as well as the boys who have been doing it for years and then, suddenly, everyone sees your worth and accepts you as a vital part of the community. That's not what's happening here.
It's not just that other things already exist and they are theoretically better than this archive you're building, it's a matter of funding nothing for the possibility of something. If you had an already established database on par with MobyGames, let's say, that would be one thing. This crowed funding would be for expanding an already built and established database, would probably fair much better as well. The way it is, it's "give us money for this thing that's hardly 1/4 of the way to finished so we can hurry up!" That...doesn't jive with me and it eveidentally doesn't jive with others.
And you're damn right I'm nitpicking, there are a lot of things off with this entire idea that are either being handwaved away or we are otherwise being encouraged to ignore because mossy 11 is creating the worlds best puff piece, so pay up!
I can say that we understand a lot of the concerns everyone is having. A lot of aspects of the campaign could definitely be explained better and our roadmap and direction isn't easy to follow from the outside since we're trying to do so much. We have all been working this week to give everyone a better idea of where Archive is now, some of the first steps well be taking after launch and where we plan to go as well as make it very clear for everyone the benefit of the website, and how other communities will benefit from us as well. All I can say is hang tight, we really do appreciate what everyone has been saying, negative and positive, because in the end it will make our project better for everyone.
Originally posted by: JSoup
Since we seem to be having a more rousing discussion over on Digital Press, I'ma suggest anyone interested in this click the link I provided a few posts back for further issues and discussion points bring brought up.
Agreed. Check the DP thread as they bring a lot of questions to the table that aren't mentioned here.
I personally am not sure why these guys need funding from the people, so to speak, and also just have serious doubts about where these guys will be getting their information from. Maybe I am being a bit critical, but here is my point:
Currently, I am writing a book about games and gaming. Where am I getting my information? Old magazine adverts, interviews, game screenshots (which I verified myself phsyically), personal recollections, resumes, etc. When working on a project like this, it is not "good enough" to just steal the generic (common) information from other websites and call it a day. Something more needs to be done.
To put it in another way: I remember back when the internet was just starting to become popular, and I had been running a popular NES fansite. Now I was young and did some really stupid things, but so did many people at that time. Something that stuck with me though was that back then, basically every NES website had a section containing text instruction manuals for games. And the two largest sources for these manuals were from tsr's NES archives and NES World. So basically everyone afterwards just stole those manuals, added a few more of their own contributions, and voila! A new section for the website. Looking back on it, not really a cool thing to do, but everyone was doing this then...
And that is what this project sounds somewhat like to me. Sure, it would be nice to have everything in one location, but just swiping others' hard work and what not, I'm just not diggin it, even if it is just "generic" information that doesn't have to be referenced in the credits.
As for the watermarks and what not, scam away my friends!
edit: Speaking of which, I've been meaning to talk with Dain one of these days about maybe another "Age" site.
Just remembered this site and went to it. Seems not much progress has been made in 2.5 years. Anybody know what happened?
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Lack of contributors and users, it felt apart under it's own weight.