If you just have an idea and want a programmer you will need to offer a bounty to get interest.
Programmers' time has value.
Also, if you want to be taken at all seriously, you will probably need prototype artwork, maps, battle system and storyline, at a minimum.
If you really want to be taken seriously, at the very least mock up something in GameMaker so that the programmer is reimplementing an existing concept that is already play-tested.
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
If it is a random generated dungeon crawler it could be simpler than an rpg. If it is an RPG, be ready to have a very difficult experience.
Heck a difficult experience even with a simple platformer for a commercial game.
My best advice is you start working on a design document.
My two cents player advice: unless you are the next Tolkien, avoid an over dramatic plot, try to be simple, a bit ironic (but not plain idiotic), be original, and keep it relaxed, a RPG is going to take time to finish.
Also, make sure it works: better a simple "ugly" game that works, than a complex wanna be esthetically awesome one all buggy, and also finish up something sooner helps keep up your morale about the project, and if people like it, you have plenty of time for a better 2.0 release later.
My two cents player advice: unless you are the next Tolkien, avoid an over dramatic plot, try to be simple, a bit ironic (but not plain idiotic), be original, and keep it relaxed, a RPG is going to take time to finish.
Also, make sure it works: better a simple "ugly" game that works, than a complex wanna be esthetically awesome one all buggy, and also finish up something sooner helps keep up your morale about the project, and if people like it, you have plenty of time for a better 2.0 release later.
Just my opinions.
Cheers!
Edit: typo, and added a note
I guess my opinion, as it relates to RPGs specifically, would be that if there are no new gameplay hooks (i.e. basic battle system, equipment system, etc) a unique story is the only thing the game has going for it, since it's all been done before.
He needs to write his big story first, all the way through to its conclusion.
Then if it needs revision to fit within the limitations of the game the whole thing is already there and it's not a case of "oh shit, ran out of space, guess this i the end".
You're right that doing an RPG is a huge time commitment, but that is why he needs the story to know whether it is even worth doing in the first place, and then to give him benchmarks in terms of game implementation.
But if he was seriously saying "I don't have a story yet, I was hoping the programmer was going to do that part"... well then he doesn't even have a game idea. Just a case of "hey, can somebody make a new RPG for me".
I guess my opinion, as it relates to RPGs specifically, would be that if there are no new gameplay hooks (i.e. basic battle system, equipment system, etc) a unique story is the only thing the game has going for it, since it's all been done before.
He needs to write his big story first, all the way through to its conclusion.
(cut....)
But if he was seriously saying "I don't have a story yet, I was hoping the programmer was going to do that part"... well then he doesn't even have a game idea. Just a case of "hey, can somebody make a new RPG for me".
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Ok, probably I misunderstood this. I thought he changed his mind about wanting a programmer to do the whole job, and he hoped to produce the game mostly himself, so I was giving the advice (and I can be wrong, maybe it was a bad advice) to start from something simpler, more similar to a Rogue like or a Gauntlet, rather than aim for a Final Fantasy kind of epic game and story as the first attempt to make a Rpg, just to don't get frustrated half way (we seem to agree on the fact that that kind of game takes forever to be finished up). But maybe "I want to make" doesn't mean what I understood, then yes, you are 100% correct: without a really good story to gamble on it, it won't be easy to convince someone to invest its free time.
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Ok, probably I misunderstood this. I thought he changed his mind about wanting a programmer to do the whole job, and he hoped to produce the game mostly himself, so I was giving the advice (and I can be wrong, maybe it was a bad advice) to start from something simpler, more similar to a Rogue like or a Gauntlet, rather than aim for a Final Fantasy kind of epic game and story as the first attempt to make a Rpg, just to don't get frustrated half way (we seem to agree on the fact that that kind of game takes forever to be finished up). But maybe "I want to make" doesn't mean what I understood, then yes, you are 100% correct: without a really good story to gamble on it, it won't be easy to convince someone to invest its free time.
- user
edit: grammar corrections, added a quote
The bulk of my comment was based on the rest of his quote.
"simple leveling up"
"simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item"
"battles will be random and no level cap"
"I DON'T REALLY HAVE A STORY"
The top 3 quotes make the game sound like about 1,000 other games that have already been made, and adds nothing new or interesting to the genre.
The last one seals the deal, IMO, since if it is otherwise a super-vanilla JRPG, story is all you have to make it something other than an also-ran.
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Ok, probably I misunderstood this. I thought he changed his mind about wanting a programmer to do the whole job, and he hoped to produce the game mostly himself, so I was giving the advice (and I can be wrong, maybe it was a bad advice) to start from something simpler, more similar to a Rogue like or a Gauntlet, rather than aim for a Final Fantasy kind of epic game and story as the first attempt to make a Rpg, just to don't get frustrated half way (we seem to agree on the fact that that kind of game takes forever to be finished up). But maybe "I want to make" doesn't mean what I understood, then yes, you are 100% correct: without a really good story to gamble on it, it won't be easy to convince someone to invest its free time.
- user
edit: grammar corrections, added a quote
The bulk of my comment was based on the rest of his quote.
"simple leveling up"
"simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item"
"battles will be random and no level cap"
"I DON'T REALLY HAVE A STORY"
The top 3 quotes make the game sound like about 1,000 other games that have already been made, and adds nothing new or interesting to the genre.
The last one seals the deal, IMO, since if it is otherwise a super-vanilla JRPG, story is all you have to make it something other than an also-ran.
I see your point, and you are of course correct.
OT
I take advantage from this to ask you a favor: do you have any good link to resources on how to achieve this on a Nes? Routines for a dialog box, battle system, items inventory, and such rpg elements?
NesDev is so documented, but so vast I hardly find what's really important to know about a subject on the first attempt.
In case, thanks in advance.
Edit:
I don't mean to steal anybody else work, of course.
Also generic conceptual information on the matter would be great.
I'd like to know more about how the dialog box is done: the characters (I mean "letters") I guess cannot be sprites, so are they lined up in background tiles? Is there a routine putting those words together? Any example or tutorial about creating something similar? When it runs, in the nmi? In the forever loop? Such things would be interesting to know.
Ok everybody what I was trying to get at is I wanted to create a old fashion turn based rpg we havnt seen one of tjose come out in a long time and I for the story I wanted to collab with 2 developers and together we create a great story, becouse having 3 people working on a story is much better then One guy coming up with the whole thing by himself
Ok everybody what I was trying to get at is I wanted to create a old fashion turn based rpg we havnt seen one of tjose come out in a long time and I for the story I wanted to collab with 2 developers and together we create a great story, becouse having 3 people working on a story is much better then One guy coming up with the whole thing by himself
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Creativity by committee is a losing proposition in my opinion.
At a deep level, though, you need to ask yourself WHY you want to do this project.
If you just want to make an old-school JRPG, buy GameMaker or RPGMaker, and shake-and-bake.
Those are good prototyping platforms for this type of game, that will just let you do your graphics design, map design, and story implementation without needing to worry about the game engine.
If it turns out to be a really good game, then you might be able to convince a more experienced programmer to rewrite the game for a console like the Genesis. OR, you might be sufficiently motivated at that point to learn to do it yourself.
Arch has provided good tips. Although you wanted to collab...you're going about it in a very 'Merchant' way. You expect someone to do the programming and assit with the story. What two things will you bring to the table.
You need to have more direction, off the tiolet ideas never really florish
I will work on the story handle the orders and marketing of the game and making baxes and manuals, but also if you made a game on rpg maker is there a way to transfer it into a nes cart?
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
I will work on the story handle the orders and marketing of the game and making baxes and manuals, but also if you made a game on rpg maker is there a way to transfer it into a nes cart?
Compared ot actually programming the game and doing the game design, the orders, marketing, boxes and manuals are probably only 5%-10% of the actual work. That doesn't sound like a very good value proposition to a prospective programmer, unless you are going to pay them cash to do the job.
No you can't transfer an RPG maker game to a cartridge.
That wasn't my point.
My point about a tool like that was that it would allow a rank-amateur to prototype a playable game to provide as part of a design document for writing the actual final program.
It would let you prototype all of your graphics and gameplay, as well as work out the kinks in the story.
Using this approach you will get nothing beyond a title screen - all projects like this start that way for some reason
Like the guys said, if you're serious, at least scribble some designs/story/background down. You don't need to be an artist or a poet, but you do need a vision and a clear idea of where it's all going. Don't try to make it up as you go along, it'll end up nonsensical and crap.
Do what arch_8ngel suggests, "prototype" it using something like RPG Maker. If the idea is there, and the game is good, you might get some interest from programmers to get it on other platforms.
To go along with what Arch, Chowder and others have said, also pick up a good design book, learn how to storyboard effectively, write a VERY simplified version of your story out and then "test the market" with the basics. After you've done that, learned how to design a game, how to storyboard it, and then figured out if your story is worthwhile or not, then find an artist (if you aren't capable of basic sketchups yourself) and have the main characters and some basic design parameters drawn out for you (EG, Buildings, furniture, weapons, etc.). This way your programmer and graphics artists will be able to know and understand what you want the game to look and play like. Then learn some programming art yourself and help where you can, or expect to put out some serious cash and found a studio where you can just hire programmers and artists to work for you, because an open world RPG, or any game for that matter, is going to take a TON of time to make, and that time is coming at others expense, and as Arch said, the people who can do this can/will find somebody who can pay or compensate them for this sort of thing. That is unless they are VERY passionate about seeing your idea to completion. And even then, passion's fade, so be prepared to have team members leave for other projects or endeavors, regardless of whether they're being paid or not. That's just how the business (or hobby for that matter) works.
First off though I'd get some heavy details down and find a good system to help you get over the hurdles of story building and storyboarding. Personally I'd recommend Doug TenNapel's (Earthworm Jim creator). Write one sentence on each that describes the beginning, middle, end on three 3x5 cards. One sentence only! Then break each of those three categories further into three more cards, and so on and so forth until you have the entire story laid out. He wrote an essay about this in his last book and it's been very helpful to me as I lay out the story and idea of a game I've been working on for the past while. In fact I've pretty much scrapped where I was going and started over, it's been that helpful to see how unbalanced and confusing my idea was. If you're doing an RPG, I imagine this would be even more important and if you have branching storylines, be prepared to do this for every possible storyline and ending (which would be a huge nightmare, honestly).
Anyway, like has already been expressed, try your hand at RPG Maker or something similar at first, fine tune it there, and if you find somebody who shares your passion and vision, then go from there, and make a great game, just be warned and prepared this is not easy, and it will not be fast. I'd say 1.5-2 years of work at the very least. More like 3-4, and possibly even more. SO patience and fortitude is going to be a very critical trait on your part, unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around that is.
I feel compelled to throw in my two cents. We're talking about NES homebrew, right? This is a hobbyist endeavor. While creating a game design document, laying everything out, being all professional yada yada yada is certainly admirable and I'm sure many people do it, I am not sure how close to reality this really is for actual hobbyists. Slamming each aspiring homebrewer with injunctions about how you "must" or "should" or "ought" to do anything will be nothing but discouraging.
One of the nice things about NES homebrew is that, while many polished games appeared on the system, many cruder games are also beloved. Heck even some downright bad games are beloved. If you create an NES homebrew game that is a bit crude, it'll still be better than hundreds of crap games that were released for the system. So I mean, if you're a hobbyist you can let your hair down a bit. There's nothing wrong with improvising a game from start to finish with no plan, ending with something somewhat crude. People will appreciate your game anyway.
My recommendation is to jump straight into building games, perhaps small ones, in an environment suitable for beginners such as Python. Try and fail, try and fail. Then keep trying some more. Give yourself time. But stick to it. Eventually, you will make the game of your dreams.
I just get the feeling on so many forums that purport to give advice to newbies, that the experienced folks always make it seem like it would be some horrible tragedy to create something bad or crude as a first effort, and that one must plan and think and design and huff and puff and hyperventilate before even considering starting on anything. Well I say ptooey to that. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
I feel compelled to throw in my two cents. We're talking about NES homebrew, right? This is a hobbyist endeavor. While creating a game design document, laying everything out, being all professional yada yada yada is certainly admirable and I'm sure many people do it, I am not sure how close to reality this really is for actual hobbyists. Slamming each aspiring homebrewer with injunctions about how you "must" or "should" or "ought" to do anything will be nothing but discouraging.
One of the nice things about NES homebrew is that, while many polished games appeared on the system, many cruder games are also beloved. Heck even some downright bad games are beloved. If you create an NES homebrew game that is a bit crude, it'll still be better than hundreds of crap games that were released for the system. So I mean, if you're a hobbyist you can let your hair down a bit. There's nothing wrong with improvising a game from start to finish with no plan, ending with something somewhat crude. People will appreciate your game anyway.
My recommendation is to jump straight into building games, perhaps small ones, in an environment suitable for beginners such as Python. Try and fail, try and fail. Then keep trying some more. Give yourself time. But stick to it. Eventually, you will make the game of your dreams.
I just get the feeling on so many forums that purport to give advice to newbies, that the experienced folks always make it seem like it would be some horrible tragedy to create something bad or crude as a first effort, and that one must plan and think and design and huff and puff and hyperventilate before even considering starting on anything. Well I say ptooey to that. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
The reason they approached it this way is because the guy wants to write a story '5 times more epic' than Pier Solar, but he doesn't even have a story. The suggestion about writing the beginning, middle, and end in one sentence each is a very sound one.
Believe it or not, you just told him how to go about this, too. You told him to lower his aim and create a simple game first, and I also strongly agree with this advice.
I feel compelled to throw in my two cents. We're talking about NES homebrew, right? This is a hobbyist endeavor. While creating a game design document, laying everything out, being all professional yada yada yada is certainly admirable and I'm sure many people do it, I am not sure how close to reality this really is for actual hobbyists. Slamming each aspiring homebrewer with injunctions about how you "must" or "should" or "ought" to do anything will be nothing but discouraging.
...
I just get the feeling on so many forums that purport to give advice to newbies, that the experienced folks always make it seem like it would be some horrible tragedy to create something bad or crude as a first effort, and that one must plan and think and design and huff and puff and hyperventilate before even considering starting on anything. Well I say ptooey to that. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
It sounds like he's actually asking about Genesis, which I gather is slightly easier to get started on than NES.
(and makes some of the strict scope-limitations of something like an RPG substantially less strict -- so with a modern prototyping tool he is less likely to wildly exceed the limits of what is actually possible)
But that aside:
We ARE NOT discouraging him from working on his own project.
In fact, we are encouraging him to solve most of the issues specific to making a good RPG (story, maps, enemies, stat-system, etc) using inexpensive tools that are fairly accessible for non-programmers.
We ARE discouraging him from asking for a programmer to basically do all the work for him on a project that has no substantive outline of any sort.
Sorry if I seemed a tad judgemental. Wasn't my intention. Just speaking for myself, planning hasn't yet played a role in creating any game, even a large RPG style game. As I gain experience, "planning" starts to enter the picture. That's really my only point.
As a programmer, if I didn't have a ton of my own game ideas, I'd still want to work with somebody, even if they didn't have a well fleshed out plan.
So my two cents really are: Not all programmers are the same. Some are willing to create without any prior plan. However, finding one that is not already hard at work on his own projects is probably impossible. Which is why I recommend learning to code, yourself. This is probably the only way hobbyist games can come to fruition.
A few friends and I have been working on a SNES RPG since 2008 and I would guess we are not even half done. We even started with the entire story written. We now have stacks of storyboards, art mocks, pages and pages of battle system designs, etc. We each prolly spend 5-10 hours a week on it each.
Take this for whatever it's worth, or discard it entirely, but I felt compelled to share that if you want to make an RPG grander than Piers Solar and have absolutely no starting point to even draw from, you may need to re-evaluate your ambition.
There are plenty of DIY game-making tools or languages with built-in image loaders. Maybe you could try making a mock-up to get an idea of what you're looking for, and test out stuff like your combat system. Heck, you could even do THAT with polyhedral dice. ^^
A few friends and I have been working on a SNES RPG since 2008 and I would guess we are not even half done. We even started with the entire story written. We now have stacks of storyboards, art mocks, pages and pages of battle system designs, etc. We each prolly spend 5-10 hours a week on it each.
Take this for whatever it's worth, or discard it entirely, but I felt compelled to share that if you want to make an RPG grander than Piers Solar and have absolutely no starting point to even draw from, you may need to re-evaluate your ambition.
Yeah, far too many people pick RPGs as a first project, and 99.999% of them fail. I understand the appeal, but the amount of work involved is absolutely insane, as your experience demonstrates.
Comments
Programmers' time has value.
Also, if you want to be taken at all seriously, you will probably need prototype artwork, maps, battle system and storyline, at a minimum.
If you really want to be taken seriously, at the very least mock up something in GameMaker so that the programmer is reimplementing an existing concept that is already play-tested.
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
If it is a random generated dungeon crawler it could be simpler than an rpg. If it is an RPG, be ready to have a very difficult experience.
Heck a difficult experience even with a simple platformer for a commercial game.
My best advice is you start working on a design document.
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you are doing just a basic turn based battle system, the story IS the game.
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
So im pretty much on my own with this then
My two cents player advice: unless you are the next Tolkien, avoid an over dramatic plot, try to be simple, a bit ironic (but not plain idiotic), be original, and keep it relaxed, a RPG is going to take time to finish.
Also, make sure it works: better a simple "ugly" game that works, than a complex wanna be esthetically awesome one all buggy, and also finish up something sooner helps keep up your morale about the project, and if people like it, you have plenty of time for a better 2.0 release later.
Just my opinions.
Cheers!
Edit: typo, and added a note
Originally posted by: user
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
So im pretty much on my own with this then
My two cents player advice: unless you are the next Tolkien, avoid an over dramatic plot, try to be simple, a bit ironic (but not plain idiotic), be original, and keep it relaxed, a RPG is going to take time to finish.
Also, make sure it works: better a simple "ugly" game that works, than a complex wanna be esthetically awesome one all buggy, and also finish up something sooner helps keep up your morale about the project, and if people like it, you have plenty of time for a better 2.0 release later.
Just my opinions.
Cheers!
Edit: typo, and added a note
I guess my opinion, as it relates to RPGs specifically, would be that if there are no new gameplay hooks (i.e. basic battle system, equipment system, etc) a unique story is the only thing the game has going for it, since it's all been done before.
He needs to write his big story first, all the way through to its conclusion.
Then if it needs revision to fit within the limitations of the game the whole thing is already there and it's not a case of "oh shit, ran out of space, guess this i the end".
You're right that doing an RPG is a huge time commitment, but that is why he needs the story to know whether it is even worth doing in the first place, and then to give him benchmarks in terms of game implementation.
But if he was seriously saying "I don't have a story yet, I was hoping the programmer was going to do that part"... well then he doesn't even have a game idea. Just a case of "hey, can somebody make a new RPG for me".
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
I guess my opinion, as it relates to RPGs specifically, would be that if there are no new gameplay hooks (i.e. basic battle system, equipment system, etc) a unique story is the only thing the game has going for it, since it's all been done before.
He needs to write his big story first, all the way through to its conclusion.
(cut....)
But if he was seriously saying "I don't have a story yet, I was hoping the programmer was going to do that part"... well then he doesn't even have a game idea. Just a case of "hey, can somebody make a new RPG for me".
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Ok, probably I misunderstood this. I thought he changed his mind about wanting a programmer to do the whole job, and he hoped to produce the game mostly himself, so I was giving the advice (and I can be wrong, maybe it was a bad advice) to start from something simpler, more similar to a Rogue like or a Gauntlet, rather than aim for a Final Fantasy kind of epic game and story as the first attempt to make a Rpg, just to don't get frustrated half way (we seem to agree on the fact that that kind of game takes forever to be finished up). But maybe "I want to make" doesn't mean what I understood, then yes, you are 100% correct: without a really good story to gamble on it, it won't be easy to convince someone to invest its free time.
- user
edit: grammar corrections, added a quote
Originally posted by: user
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Ok, probably I misunderstood this. I thought he changed his mind about wanting a programmer to do the whole job, and he hoped to produce the game mostly himself, so I was giving the advice (and I can be wrong, maybe it was a bad advice) to start from something simpler, more similar to a Rogue like or a Gauntlet, rather than aim for a Final Fantasy kind of epic game and story as the first attempt to make a Rpg, just to don't get frustrated half way (we seem to agree on the fact that that kind of game takes forever to be finished up). But maybe "I want to make" doesn't mean what I understood, then yes, you are 100% correct: without a really good story to gamble on it, it won't be easy to convince someone to invest its free time.
- user
edit: grammar corrections, added a quote
The bulk of my comment was based on the rest of his quote.
"simple leveling up"
"simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item"
"battles will be random and no level cap"
"I DON'T REALLY HAVE A STORY"
The top 3 quotes make the game sound like about 1,000 other games that have already been made, and adds nothing new or interesting to the genre.
The last one seals the deal, IMO, since if it is otherwise a super-vanilla JRPG, story is all you have to make it something other than an also-ran.
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: user
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Ok, probably I misunderstood this. I thought he changed his mind about wanting a programmer to do the whole job, and he hoped to produce the game mostly himself, so I was giving the advice (and I can be wrong, maybe it was a bad advice) to start from something simpler, more similar to a Rogue like or a Gauntlet, rather than aim for a Final Fantasy kind of epic game and story as the first attempt to make a Rpg, just to don't get frustrated half way (we seem to agree on the fact that that kind of game takes forever to be finished up). But maybe "I want to make" doesn't mean what I understood, then yes, you are 100% correct: without a really good story to gamble on it, it won't be easy to convince someone to invest its free time.
- user
edit: grammar corrections, added a quote
The bulk of my comment was based on the rest of his quote.
"simple leveling up"
"simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item"
"battles will be random and no level cap"
"I DON'T REALLY HAVE A STORY"
The top 3 quotes make the game sound like about 1,000 other games that have already been made, and adds nothing new or interesting to the genre.
The last one seals the deal, IMO, since if it is otherwise a super-vanilla JRPG, story is all you have to make it something other than an also-ran.
I see your point, and you are of course correct.
OT
I take advantage from this to ask you a favor: do you have any good link to resources on how to achieve this on a Nes? Routines for a dialog box, battle system, items inventory, and such rpg elements?
NesDev is so documented, but so vast I hardly find what's really important to know about a subject on the first attempt.
In case, thanks in advance.
Edit:
I don't mean to steal anybody else work, of course.
Also generic conceptual information on the matter would be great.
Like this, fi: http://www.khangames.com/lord.html
I'd like to know more about how the dialog box is done: the characters (I mean "letters") I guess cannot be sprites, so are they lined up in background tiles? Is there a routine putting those words together? Any example or tutorial about creating something similar? When it runs, in the nmi? In the forever loop? Such things would be interesting to know.
/OT
- user
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
Ok everybody what I was trying to get at is I wanted to create a old fashion turn based rpg we havnt seen one of tjose come out in a long time and I for the story I wanted to collab with 2 developers and together we create a great story, becouse having 3 people working on a story is much better then One guy coming up with the whole thing by himself
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Creativity by committee is a losing proposition in my opinion.
At a deep level, though, you need to ask yourself WHY you want to do this project.
If you just want to make an old-school JRPG, buy GameMaker or RPGMaker, and shake-and-bake.
Those are good prototyping platforms for this type of game, that will just let you do your graphics design, map design, and story implementation without needing to worry about the game engine.
If it turns out to be a really good game, then you might be able to convince a more experienced programmer to rewrite the game for a console like the Genesis. OR, you might be sufficiently motivated at that point to learn to do it yourself.
You need to have more direction, off the tiolet ideas never really florish
But i want to make a turn based rpg with simple leveling up, and a simple shield and weapon equipping and only one extra item and it will be a huge open worl also the battles will be random and no level cap I dont really have a story I was thinking the programmer that works with me on it we could work together and build a story line for it
Sounds epic dude.
Originally posted by: elitescorpio
I will work on the story handle the orders and marketing of the game and making baxes and manuals, but also if you made a game on rpg maker is there a way to transfer it into a nes cart?
Compared ot actually programming the game and doing the game design, the orders, marketing, boxes and manuals are probably only 5%-10% of the actual work. That doesn't sound like a very good value proposition to a prospective programmer, unless you are going to pay them cash to do the job.
No you can't transfer an RPG maker game to a cartridge.
That wasn't my point.
My point about a tool like that was that it would allow a rank-amateur to prototype a playable game to provide as part of a design document for writing the actual final program.
It would let you prototype all of your graphics and gameplay, as well as work out the kinks in the story.
Like the guys said, if you're serious, at least scribble some designs/story/background down. You don't need to be an artist or a poet, but you do need a vision and a clear idea of where it's all going. Don't try to make it up as you go along, it'll end up nonsensical and crap.
Do what arch_8ngel suggests, "prototype" it using something like RPG Maker. If the idea is there, and the game is good, you might get some interest from programmers to get it on other platforms.
First off though I'd get some heavy details down and find a good system to help you get over the hurdles of story building and storyboarding. Personally I'd recommend Doug TenNapel's (Earthworm Jim creator). Write one sentence on each that describes the beginning, middle, end on three 3x5 cards. One sentence only! Then break each of those three categories further into three more cards, and so on and so forth until you have the entire story laid out. He wrote an essay about this in his last book and it's been very helpful to me as I lay out the story and idea of a game I've been working on for the past while. In fact I've pretty much scrapped where I was going and started over, it's been that helpful to see how unbalanced and confusing my idea was. If you're doing an RPG, I imagine this would be even more important and if you have branching storylines, be prepared to do this for every possible storyline and ending (which would be a huge nightmare, honestly).
Anyway, like has already been expressed, try your hand at RPG Maker or something similar at first, fine tune it there, and if you find somebody who shares your passion and vision, then go from there, and make a great game, just be warned and prepared this is not easy, and it will not be fast. I'd say 1.5-2 years of work at the very least. More like 3-4, and possibly even more. SO patience and fortitude is going to be a very critical trait on your part, unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around that is.
One of the nice things about NES homebrew is that, while many polished games appeared on the system, many cruder games are also beloved. Heck even some downright bad games are beloved. If you create an NES homebrew game that is a bit crude, it'll still be better than hundreds of crap games that were released for the system. So I mean, if you're a hobbyist you can let your hair down a bit. There's nothing wrong with improvising a game from start to finish with no plan, ending with something somewhat crude. People will appreciate your game anyway.
My recommendation is to jump straight into building games, perhaps small ones, in an environment suitable for beginners such as Python. Try and fail, try and fail. Then keep trying some more. Give yourself time. But stick to it. Eventually, you will make the game of your dreams.
I just get the feeling on so many forums that purport to give advice to newbies, that the experienced folks always make it seem like it would be some horrible tragedy to create something bad or crude as a first effort, and that one must plan and think and design and huff and puff and hyperventilate before even considering starting on anything. Well I say ptooey to that. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
Originally posted by: GradualGames
I feel compelled to throw in my two cents. We're talking about NES homebrew, right? This is a hobbyist endeavor. While creating a game design document, laying everything out, being all professional yada yada yada is certainly admirable and I'm sure many people do it, I am not sure how close to reality this really is for actual hobbyists. Slamming each aspiring homebrewer with injunctions about how you "must" or "should" or "ought" to do anything will be nothing but discouraging.
One of the nice things about NES homebrew is that, while many polished games appeared on the system, many cruder games are also beloved. Heck even some downright bad games are beloved. If you create an NES homebrew game that is a bit crude, it'll still be better than hundreds of crap games that were released for the system. So I mean, if you're a hobbyist you can let your hair down a bit. There's nothing wrong with improvising a game from start to finish with no plan, ending with something somewhat crude. People will appreciate your game anyway.
My recommendation is to jump straight into building games, perhaps small ones, in an environment suitable for beginners such as Python. Try and fail, try and fail. Then keep trying some more. Give yourself time. But stick to it. Eventually, you will make the game of your dreams.
I just get the feeling on so many forums that purport to give advice to newbies, that the experienced folks always make it seem like it would be some horrible tragedy to create something bad or crude as a first effort, and that one must plan and think and design and huff and puff and hyperventilate before even considering starting on anything. Well I say ptooey to that. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
The reason they approached it this way is because the guy wants to write a story '5 times more epic' than Pier Solar, but he doesn't even have a story. The suggestion about writing the beginning, middle, and end in one sentence each is a very sound one.
Believe it or not, you just told him how to go about this, too. You told him to lower his aim and create a simple game first, and I also strongly agree with this advice.
Originally posted by: GradualGames
I feel compelled to throw in my two cents. We're talking about NES homebrew, right? This is a hobbyist endeavor. While creating a game design document, laying everything out, being all professional yada yada yada is certainly admirable and I'm sure many people do it, I am not sure how close to reality this really is for actual hobbyists. Slamming each aspiring homebrewer with injunctions about how you "must" or "should" or "ought" to do anything will be nothing but discouraging.
...
I just get the feeling on so many forums that purport to give advice to newbies, that the experienced folks always make it seem like it would be some horrible tragedy to create something bad or crude as a first effort, and that one must plan and think and design and huff and puff and hyperventilate before even considering starting on anything. Well I say ptooey to that. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
It sounds like he's actually asking about Genesis, which I gather is slightly easier to get started on than NES.
(and makes some of the strict scope-limitations of something like an RPG substantially less strict -- so with a modern prototyping tool he is less likely to wildly exceed the limits of what is actually possible)
But that aside:
We ARE NOT discouraging him from working on his own project.
In fact, we are encouraging him to solve most of the issues specific to making a good RPG (story, maps, enemies, stat-system, etc) using inexpensive tools that are fairly accessible for non-programmers.
We ARE discouraging him from asking for a programmer to basically do all the work for him on a project that has no substantive outline of any sort.
As a programmer, if I didn't have a ton of my own game ideas, I'd still want to work with somebody, even if they didn't have a well fleshed out plan.
So my two cents really are: Not all programmers are the same. Some are willing to create without any prior plan. However, finding one that is not already hard at work on his own projects is probably impossible. Which is why I recommend learning to code, yourself. This is probably the only way hobbyist games can come to fruition.
Originally posted by: GradualGames
As a programmer, if I didn't have a ton of my own game ideas, I'd still want to work with somebody, even if they didn't have a well fleshed out plan.
He essentially doesn't have ANY plan, let alone a well-fleshed-out plan.
I doubt any programmer anywhere would collaborate with somebody who is bringing nothing to the table.
We are essentially recommending two parallel possibilities for the OP:
(1) put together the meat of your RPG so that you ARE bringing something to the table in order to effectively collaborate
OR
(2) start learning to program and work up to your eventual idea
Either one is fine.
Take this for whatever it's worth, or discard it entirely, but I felt compelled to share that if you want to make an RPG grander than Piers Solar and have absolutely no starting point to even draw from, you may need to re-evaluate your ambition.
Originally posted by: LukeAF24
A few friends and I have been working on a SNES RPG since 2008 and I would guess we are not even half done. We even started with the entire story written. We now have stacks of storyboards, art mocks, pages and pages of battle system designs, etc. We each prolly spend 5-10 hours a week on it each.
Take this for whatever it's worth, or discard it entirely, but I felt compelled to share that if you want to make an RPG grander than Piers Solar and have absolutely no starting point to even draw from, you may need to re-evaluate your ambition.
Yeah, far too many people pick RPGs as a first project, and 99.999% of them fail. I understand the appeal, but the amount of work involved is absolutely insane, as your experience demonstrates.