2. Do not watch Raw or Smackdown live. Seriously, after non-commercial PPVs and very VERY short commercial breaks on NXT/Network, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw with 3-minute commercial breaks. It's amazing how much flow is killed.
2b. Catch Raw and SD highlights on WWE Youtube. They show 2-3 minutes of each match. You skip out on the entrances, rest holds AND commercials (if it's a 2-segment match). You get the results and you feel like you know what's going on after 15 minutes (as opposed to 3 hours)
3. Watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. Seriously, great value and no commercial breaks. Wrestlers wrestle longer matches usually, and for the most part, the PPVs have all been decent to solid. I cannot remember a particularly horrendous PPV since the Network launched outside of maybe 1 or 2 shows I'm blocking out.
4. October is Brock Lesnar month. Saturday 10/3 Live Special from MSG. Dudleyz vs. New Day, Brock vs. Big Show. Love these network specials! October 19 Brock podcast with Austin! And then Taker vs. Brock in Hell in a Cell. Even if it's toned down PG BS, it's still Brock versus Taker in a Hell in a Cell... and it's being billed as their final match. I expect a clear finish where Brock goes over. However it shakes out, it should be a compelling match and a good PPV.
Overall, I'm enjoying the product right now. Not everything is perfect or great of course, but I don't have time to hate on it. Enjoy it for the good parts (see my list above) and leave out the junk. What do you do when the product is oversaturated? You only watch the few great things they do and everything else is highlights only. It keeps you fresh and hungry for the product especially when they put on above average or better commercial-free shows.
2. Do not watch Raw or Smackdown live. Seriously, after non-commercial PPVs and very VERY short commercial breaks on NXT/Network, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw with 3-minute commercial breaks. It's amazing how much flow is killed.
2b. Catch Raw and SD highlights on WWE Youtube. They show 2-3 minutes of each match. You skip out on the entrances, rest holds AND commercials (if it's a 2-segment match). You get the results and you feel like you know what's going on after 15 minutes (as opposed to 3 hours)
3. Watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. Seriously, great value and no commercial breaks. Wrestlers wrestle longer matches usually, and for the most part, the PPVs have all been decent to solid. I cannot remember a particularly horrendous PPV since the Network launched outside of maybe 1 or 2 shows I'm blocking out.
4. October is Brock Lesnar month. Saturday 10/3 Live Special from MSG. Dudleyz vs. New Day, Brock vs. Big Show. Love these network specials! October 19 Brock podcast with Austin! And then Taker vs. Brock in Hell in a Cell. Even if it's toned down PG BS, it's still Brock versus Taker in a Hell in a Cell... and it's being billed as their final match. I expect a clear finish where Brock goes over. However it shakes out, it should be a compelling match and a good PPV.
Overall, I'm enjoying the product right now. Not everything is perfect or great of course, but I don't have time to hate on it. Enjoy it for the good parts (see my list above) and leave out the junk. What do you do when the product is oversaturated? You only watch the few great things they do and everything else is highlights only. It keeps you fresh and hungry for the product especially when they put on above average or better commercial-free shows.
I do all of the above, sir. I don't even watch RAW or SD anymore for the reasons you've mentioned. I'm not always home to catch NXT on Wed nights, and I only watch the PPVs on the Network. I'm very interested in Brock vs Taker, only because I hope taker sits the fuck down and retires. He's already ruined himself (WWE Creative has ruined him, actually) coming back as he has to take on Brock.
Apparently taker is gonna be on some Mexico tour later this year, I'm gonna guess that it'll be in the network.
Nxt rules, it was kinda stale for like a couple months but it has picked right back up.
There's a video game convention here on oct 3, I was bummed that I can't go to that msg, but when I found out it was brock vs big show I was happy I couldn't go lol I'll still watch it though
I got home early from work and wanted to just sit on the couch so I watched raw, biggest waste of time. That was an absolute shit episode, the best thing was Rollins saying he had an audience with the pope and the he told him he was goin to heaven lol
I got home early from work and wanted to just sit on the couch so I watched raw, biggest waste of time. That was an absolute shit episode, the best thing was Rollins saying he had an audience with the pope and the he told him he was goin to heaven lol
I'm telling you man. Youtube WWE highlights are the way to go.
Also, be sure to check out the NXT all star panel on the network. Watching through it now and it's awesome.
2. Do not watch Raw or Smackdown live. Seriously, after non-commercial PPVs and very VERY short commercial breaks on NXT/Network, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw with 3-minute commercial breaks. It's amazing how much flow is killed.
2b. Catch Raw and SD highlights on WWE Youtube. They show 2-3 minutes of each match. You skip out on the entrances, rest holds AND commercials (if it's a 2-segment match). You get the results and you feel like you know what's going on after 15 minutes (as opposed to 3 hours)
3. Watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. Seriously, great value and no commercial breaks. Wrestlers wrestle longer matches usually, and for the most part, the PPVs have all been decent to solid. I cannot remember a particularly horrendous PPV since the Network launched outside of maybe 1 or 2 shows I'm blocking out.
4. October is Brock Lesnar month. Saturday 10/3 Live Special from MSG. Dudleyz vs. New Day, Brock vs. Big Show. Love these network specials! October 19 Brock podcast with Austin! And then Taker vs. Brock in Hell in a Cell. Even if it's toned down PG BS, it's still Brock versus Taker in a Hell in a Cell... and it's being billed as their final match. I expect a clear finish where Brock goes over. However it shakes out, it should be a compelling match and a good PPV.
Overall, I'm enjoying the product right now. Not everything is perfect or great of course, but I don't have time to hate on it. Enjoy it for the good parts (see my list above) and leave out the junk. What do you do when the product is oversaturated? You only watch the few great things they do and everything else is highlights only. It keeps you fresh and hungry for the product especially when they put on above average or better commercial-free shows.
Solid plan, man. I'm strongly getting the feeling that my wife and oldest kid are kind of bored with watching Raw anymore. They were watching some kids movie last night that ran past 8pm a few minutes(I was playing my DS so it didn't matter to me), and my wife made the comment after the movie was over that "Okay, it's dad's turn with the TV." Really felt like we were only watchign Raw because I wanted to.
We love watching the Network specials and the PPV's, but Raw just drags so slow, with all the commerical breaks and recaps. I swear, out of a 3-hour show, I bet we actually see less than an hour of actual new footage. Having Cole recap every single thing that happened 3x over just makes watching the show unbearable.
Went on the site. Soon as I saw cena I went back. Not feeling Kane as champ.
I'm more concerned that the WWE is recycling the Abyss/Joseph Park multiple personality angle with Kane. The WWE writers must really be struggling for ideas when they're ripping off TNA.
Went on the site. Soon as I saw cena I went back. Not feeling Kane as champ.
I'm more concerned that the WWE is recycling the Abyss/Joseph Park multiple personality angle with Kane. The WWE writers must really be struggling for ideas when they're ripping off TNA.
They tend to rip off big tna angles a lot it's hilarious. I think the whole Kane with double personalities is done though
Who's the worst no selling tag team ever, the nasty boys, the Steiners, road warriors, or public enemy lol
I think Rick Steiner is one of the worst wrestlers in general, not just from a safety standpoint, but from pretty much every other criteria lmao.
At least The Road Warriors had amazing power moves to make up for no-selling. The Nasty's are like the most average team ever. Public Enemy just sucks, and would probably be #1 if not for Scott Steiner lol.
I don't think the Road Warriors should ever be considered a "worst tag team" anything, even no-selling. They were booked to squash, and they entertained the hell out of audiences. I'd say they were pretty damned good at doing their jobs. They went out there and did exactly what they were paid to do, and got over big with the crowd. You can't tell a story to the audience and be a believable monster/badass/etc if you sell everything like normal. Then you're just a guy in tights and kiddy face paint. No-selling and looking invincible is part of the story-telling, and that makes whoever eventually does defeat them look just that much more amazing.
Man, I've gotta say it - even as someone who was lucky enough to grow up right on through the peak of WWF and the Attitude era - it's fucking remarkable how much better the overall promotion was as a package from 1998 through 2000.
Dare I say the WWF (fuck the E in the A, lol) peaked in 1999, starting with the very first episode of RAW for that year.
The lady and I were watching on The Network, and I decided to start with 1999 just to get nostalgic for a bit. My goal has been to simply watch that year's RAW episodes, and PPVs accordingly, in order.
All I can say is the first episode of RAW from 1999 is light years better than any single PPV I've seen in the last several from WWE. You get a hardcore championship match between Road Dogg and Al Snow that goes all over the arena (including outside in the snow, where Dogg piledrives Snow through a stack of palletes for the last spot), killer promo spots, non-stop action, and to top it all off - a No DQ championship match between Mankind and The Rock, where Austin comes in and delivers justice to the Rock, getting Mankind the win, and it goes over without people fucking it all up and overbooking it.
The pop for Austin was fucking insane. This is what happens when you actually GIVE THE FUCKING AUDIENCE WHAT THEY WANT.
It's like they are purposely ruining wrestling now because they feel like they can't top that shit or something. It's fucking mind-boggling how much better the booking and writing was, even despite the fact that they were (and had to) compete with WCW at the time. It literally is just Triple H jerking himself and his ideas off and making billions.
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
Everyone praises the 98-00, but I really love 94-97. It's cheesy but great stuff that I grew up on,. I feel like the attitude era stuff is just so played out at this point, how many times can I see Austin spray Vince wth beer or dx saying suck it so everyone. Dx really is the reason I can't watch that era anymore, it's so immature and stupid to me for some reason now.
The road warriors were great to watch but their in ring product was pretty bad, all those tag teams I listed were pretty bad wrestlers. The Steiners were probably the best out of all of them. The nasty boys were absolute trash in and out of the ring, I have no idea why they were ever held at such high standards by wcw and wwe. Public enemy was basically the nasty boys who do flips through tables. I just think it's funny how any of those guys on said teams could get like spike piledrived, and then get right up and rake the eye of the guy who did it and do a move on them lol
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
I understand what you're saying but you gotta understand it's a different time, as you said it WAS more intense. The Rock could have killed Mick Foley that that I quit match. It was crazy back then. With everything that they've learned about chair shots and concussions and bumps, they can't wrestle in the same way anymore. No pile drivers.
Wrestling is extremely dangerous in itself. Never mind when you add chairs and the crazy moves that are humaly possible. WWE can't have people doing super crazy stuff because of the inherant danger. Whether it's a head shot, pile driver, or insane top rope moves they can't have someone land on their head in every segment.
If WWE let Neville do 1/2 the stuff he's capable of off the top rope some people would shit their pants. But it would also increase the overall danger for Neville, and safety risk, for everyone... because then Neville, and everyone else, would have raised the bar for themselves and have to keep going. Personally, I believe Neville will bring out some spectacular stuff when neccessary, but they have to be careful about how they introduce it.
WWE is getting back to giving the talent a bit of space with their promos it seems like.
Originally posted by: NostalgicMachine
Originally posted by: Jandrem
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
I understand what you're saying. Without getting too deep into it, although I think some of the best matches/match ups/feuds in history were played out through the late 90's in WWE I don't think that means it's any "better" than now, or should be compared so harshly. There was a lot of crappy stuff in there too.
Some things from the 70's 80's were amazing, too.
I think it's just DIFFERENT. It's hard to compare them for me because it was a totally different time in the WWE. The safety was handled differently so something like that "I Quit" match with The Rock and Mick Foley could NEVER happen now. I mean, I totally agree, that shit is INSANE.
Also because of the fact that WWE is now a "family" and publicly traded company. It changes everything. It changes the announcing, it changes the promos (less "live" mics and unscripted promos). That's just the way it is.
Comparing it today makes it unfair for the talent. You have to keep it all in perspective.
If you left it 100% to the talent of what to do in the ring things would be much different, but there's many reasons they (WWE) have to control it. Storyline, safety, etc.
I love certain wrestlers and matches from every era, but it's tough to compare them because of the different circumstances in each.
My whole thing is I wish they would just go back to the wrestling aspect of things. Nxt has is down and we have seen some great matches. Neville for example showed some amazing mat wrestling moves in matches with Sami zayn and he hasn't done any of that in wwe. All his matches so far have been pretty much the same formula and that gets stale. I don't really want him to be doing crazy flips the whole time, I just want to see more wrestling
Just watched Summerslam 2002. Now there's a f*ckin' awesome wrestling show. Every match was solid and there were some gems like HBK vs. HHH with HBK returning after 4 years off. "Crispin Wah" vs. RVD for the IC strap was also damn good. Edge-Eddie... Rey-Angle... damn. Brock vs. Rock was a nice main event as well.
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
I understand what you're saying but you gotta understand it's a different time, as you said it WAS more intense. The Rock could have killed Mick Foley that that I quit match. It was crazy back then. With everything that they've learned about chair shots and concussions and bumps, they can't wrestle in the same way anymore. No pile drivers.
Wrestling is extremely dangerous in itself. Never mind when you add chairs and the crazy moves that are humaly possible. WWE can't have people doing super crazy stuff because of the inherant danger. Whether it's a head shot, pile driver, or insane top rope moves they can't have someone land on their head in every segment.
If WWE let Neville do 1/2 the stuff he's capable of off the top rope some people would shit their pants. But it would also increase the overall danger for Neville, and safety risk, for everyone... because then Neville, and everyone else, would have raised the bar for themselves and have to keep going. Personally, I believe Neville will bring out some spectacular stuff when neccessary, but they have to be careful about how they introduce it.
WWE is getting back to giving the talent a bit of space with their promos it seems like.
Originally posted by: NostalgicMachine
Originally posted by: Jandrem
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
I understand what you're saying. Without getting too deep into it, although I think some of the best matches/match ups/feuds in history were played out through the late 90's in WWE I don't think that means it's any "better" than now, or should be compared so harshly. There was a lot of crappy stuff in there too.
Some things from the 70's 80's were amazing, too.
I think it's just DIFFERENT. It's hard to compare them for me because it was a totally different time in the WWE. The safety was handled differently so something like that "I Quit" match with The Rock and Mick Foley could NEVER happen now. I mean, I totally agree, that shit is INSANE.
Also because of the fact that WWE is now a "family" and publicly traded company. It changes everything. It changes the announcing, it changes the promos (less "live" mics and unscripted promos). That's just the way it is.
Comparing it today makes it unfair for the talent. You have to keep it all in perspective.
If you left it 100% to the talent of what to do in the ring things would be much different, but there's many reasons they (WWE) have to control it. Storyline, safety, etc.
I love certain wrestlers and matches from every era, but it's tough to compare them because of the different circumstances in each.
I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing my point. I'm not asking the talent to be less safe or more dangerous, I'm asking them to act like they give a crap about what they're doing. The match I mentioned, D-Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, wasn't a spectacularly dangerous match. But, they wrestled like their livelihood depended on it. Here were two mid-carders, one of whom had a disasterously cheesy gimmick, and they gave you every ounce of energy they had. Toward the end, they botched a few moves, just because they were that exhausted from going full-throttle for so long. And this was just the show opener. I gave no craps about D-Lo or Val, but they made me a fan after that match.
I turned the PPV on from a completely neutral viewpoint; I had no idea what matches were featured, what feuds were active at the time, I just wanted to grab something from that era and watch it cold to see the differences from then to now.
I've been watching since around '83, so I know all about things in different eras just being "different." That's not the case today. WWE have truly lost their way. It's like watching a band who was amazing 2 decades ago but are just burnt out and lost their passion. Worst part is, there is plenty of passion in the WWE, but the talent is so overhandled and overscripted they can't show it or perform with it.
I think one of the worst parts is that the wrestlers don't even write their own promos. Sure, this has always been a thing here and there, but now it's everywhere. Even guys like Dean Ambrose, who could be an absolute nutcase on the mic, gets bogged down with trying to remember distertation-length, overworded promos. Only one or two talents are allowed to write their own promos, one of which is Bray Wyatt, and you can see the difference right away. I think it goes without saying that Roman Reigns doesn't write his own promos(thufferin' thuccotash!) and it makes him look like a complete knob. Dude has talent, but they're killing him with the lame promos.
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
I understand what you're saying but you gotta understand it's a different time, as you said it WAS more intense. The Rock could have killed Mick Foley that that I quit match. It was crazy back then. With everything that they've learned about chair shots and concussions and bumps, they can't wrestle in the same way anymore. No pile drivers.
Wrestling is extremely dangerous in itself. Never mind when you add chairs and the crazy moves that are humaly possible. WWE can't have people doing super crazy stuff because of the inherant danger. Whether it's a head shot, pile driver, or insane top rope moves they can't have someone land on their head in every segment.
If WWE let Neville do 1/2 the stuff he's capable of off the top rope some people would shit their pants. But it would also increase the overall danger for Neville, and safety risk, for everyone... because then Neville, and everyone else, would have raised the bar for themselves and have to keep going. Personally, I believe Neville will bring out some spectacular stuff when neccessary, but they have to be careful about how they introduce it.
WWE is getting back to giving the talent a bit of space with their promos it seems like.
Originally posted by: NostalgicMachine
Originally posted by: Jandrem
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
I understand what you're saying. Without getting too deep into it, although I think some of the best matches/match ups/feuds in history were played out through the late 90's in WWE I don't think that means it's any "better" than now, or should be compared so harshly. There was a lot of crappy stuff in there too.
Some things from the 70's 80's were amazing, too.
I think it's just DIFFERENT. It's hard to compare them for me because it was a totally different time in the WWE. The safety was handled differently so something like that "I Quit" match with The Rock and Mick Foley could NEVER happen now. I mean, I totally agree, that shit is INSANE.
Also because of the fact that WWE is now a "family" and publicly traded company. It changes everything. It changes the announcing, it changes the promos (less "live" mics and unscripted promos). That's just the way it is.
Comparing it today makes it unfair for the talent. You have to keep it all in perspective.
If you left it 100% to the talent of what to do in the ring things would be much different, but there's many reasons they (WWE) have to control it. Storyline, safety, etc.
I love certain wrestlers and matches from every era, but it's tough to compare them because of the different circumstances in each.
I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing my point. I'm not asking the talent to be less safe or more dangerous, I'm asking them to act like they give a crap about what they're doing. The match I mentioned, D-Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, wasn't a spectacularly dangerous match. But, they wrestled like their livelihood depended on it. Here were two mid-carders, one of whom had a disasterously cheesy gimmick, and they gave you every ounce of energy they had. Toward the end, they botched a few moves, just because they were that exhausted from going full-throttle for so long. And this was just the show opener. I gave no craps about D-Lo or Val, but they made me a fan after that match.
I turned the PPV on from a completely neutral viewpoint; I had no idea what matches were featured, what feuds were active at the time, I just wanted to grab something from that era and watch it cold to see the differences from then to now.
I've been watching since around '83, so I know all about things in different eras just being "different." That's not the case today. WWE have truly lost their way. It's like watching a band who was amazing 2 decades ago but are just burnt out and lost their passion. Worst part is, their is plenty of passion in the WWE, but the talent is so overhandled and overscripted they can't show it or perform with it.
I think one of the worst parts is that the wrestlers don't even write their own promos. Sure, this has always been a thing here and there, but now it's everywhere. Even guys like Dean Ambrose, who could be an absolute nutcase on the mic, gets bogged down with trying to remember distertation-length, overworded promos. Only one or two talents are allowed to write their own promos, one of which is Bray Wyatt, and you can see the difference right away. I think it goes without saying that Roman Reigns doesn't write his own promos(thufferin' thuccotash!) and it makes him look like a complete knob. Dude has talent, but they're killing him with the lame promos.
Thank you, Jandrem, for saying what I was eventually going to say. Your description of what's wrong with modern WWE is spot on.
It has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with the wrestling itself.
I was actually talking with a buddy just the other day about how Val Venis was a solid mid-carder; gimmick or no gimmick, that guy was always in fantastic shape and could wrestle. I know exactly what you're saying about opening matches being killer more often than not BITD. It was like seeing a good rock band; that opening song has to get the crowd pumped for the rest of the show! That's how all the good old-school booking was done. I've been watching since about 1990, BTW.
Comments
WWE is boring the shit out of me, lol.
In other news...
WWE is boring the shit out of me, lol.
I'm just waiting for lucha underground season 2 since it was announced
Originally posted by: NostalgicMachine
In other news...
WWE is boring the shit out of me, lol.
If you're not already, do what I do:
1. Watch NXT
2. Do not watch Raw or Smackdown live. Seriously, after non-commercial PPVs and very VERY short commercial breaks on NXT/Network, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw with 3-minute commercial breaks. It's amazing how much flow is killed.
2b. Catch Raw and SD highlights on WWE Youtube. They show 2-3 minutes of each match. You skip out on the entrances, rest holds AND commercials (if it's a 2-segment match). You get the results and you feel like you know what's going on after 15 minutes (as opposed to 3 hours)
3. Watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. Seriously, great value and no commercial breaks. Wrestlers wrestle longer matches usually, and for the most part, the PPVs have all been decent to solid. I cannot remember a particularly horrendous PPV since the Network launched outside of maybe 1 or 2 shows I'm blocking out.
4. October is Brock Lesnar month. Saturday 10/3 Live Special from MSG. Dudleyz vs. New Day, Brock vs. Big Show. Love these network specials! October 19 Brock podcast with Austin! And then Taker vs. Brock in Hell in a Cell. Even if it's toned down PG BS, it's still Brock versus Taker in a Hell in a Cell... and it's being billed as their final match. I expect a clear finish where Brock goes over. However it shakes out, it should be a compelling match and a good PPV.
Overall, I'm enjoying the product right now. Not everything is perfect or great of course, but I don't have time to hate on it. Enjoy it for the good parts (see my list above) and leave out the junk. What do you do when the product is oversaturated? You only watch the few great things they do and everything else is highlights only. It keeps you fresh and hungry for the product especially when they put on above average or better commercial-free shows.
In other news...
WWE is boring the shit out of me, lol.
If you're not already, do what I do:
1. Watch NXT
2. Do not watch Raw or Smackdown live. Seriously, after non-commercial PPVs and very VERY short commercial breaks on NXT/Network, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw with 3-minute commercial breaks. It's amazing how much flow is killed.
2b. Catch Raw and SD highlights on WWE Youtube. They show 2-3 minutes of each match. You skip out on the entrances, rest holds AND commercials (if it's a 2-segment match). You get the results and you feel like you know what's going on after 15 minutes (as opposed to 3 hours)
3. Watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. Seriously, great value and no commercial breaks. Wrestlers wrestle longer matches usually, and for the most part, the PPVs have all been decent to solid. I cannot remember a particularly horrendous PPV since the Network launched outside of maybe 1 or 2 shows I'm blocking out.
4. October is Brock Lesnar month. Saturday 10/3 Live Special from MSG. Dudleyz vs. New Day, Brock vs. Big Show. Love these network specials! October 19 Brock podcast with Austin! And then Taker vs. Brock in Hell in a Cell. Even if it's toned down PG BS, it's still Brock versus Taker in a Hell in a Cell... and it's being billed as their final match. I expect a clear finish where Brock goes over. However it shakes out, it should be a compelling match and a good PPV.
Overall, I'm enjoying the product right now. Not everything is perfect or great of course, but I don't have time to hate on it. Enjoy it for the good parts (see my list above) and leave out the junk. What do you do when the product is oversaturated? You only watch the few great things they do and everything else is highlights only. It keeps you fresh and hungry for the product especially when they put on above average or better commercial-free shows.
I do all of the above, sir. I don't even watch RAW or SD anymore for the reasons you've mentioned. I'm not always home to catch NXT on Wed nights, and I only watch the PPVs on the Network. I'm very interested in Brock vs Taker, only because I hope taker sits the fuck down and retires. He's already ruined himself (WWE Creative has ruined him, actually) coming back as he has to take on Brock.
Nxt rules, it was kinda stale for like a couple months but it has picked right back up.
There's a video game convention here on oct 3, I was bummed that I can't go to that msg, but when I found out it was brock vs big show I was happy I couldn't go lol I'll still watch it though
Originally posted by: wesofthedead
I got home early from work and wanted to just sit on the couch so I watched raw, biggest waste of time. That was an absolute shit episode, the best thing was Rollins saying he had an audience with the pope and the he told him he was goin to heaven lol
I'm telling you man. Youtube WWE highlights are the way to go.
Also, be sure to check out the NXT all star panel on the network. Watching through it now and it's awesome.
In other news...
WWE is boring the shit out of me, lol.
If you're not already, do what I do:
1. Watch NXT
2. Do not watch Raw or Smackdown live. Seriously, after non-commercial PPVs and very VERY short commercial breaks on NXT/Network, I cannot sit through a 3 hour Raw with 3-minute commercial breaks. It's amazing how much flow is killed.
2b. Catch Raw and SD highlights on WWE Youtube. They show 2-3 minutes of each match. You skip out on the entrances, rest holds AND commercials (if it's a 2-segment match). You get the results and you feel like you know what's going on after 15 minutes (as opposed to 3 hours)
3. Watch the WWE PPVs on the Network. Seriously, great value and no commercial breaks. Wrestlers wrestle longer matches usually, and for the most part, the PPVs have all been decent to solid. I cannot remember a particularly horrendous PPV since the Network launched outside of maybe 1 or 2 shows I'm blocking out.
4. October is Brock Lesnar month. Saturday 10/3 Live Special from MSG. Dudleyz vs. New Day, Brock vs. Big Show. Love these network specials! October 19 Brock podcast with Austin! And then Taker vs. Brock in Hell in a Cell. Even if it's toned down PG BS, it's still Brock versus Taker in a Hell in a Cell... and it's being billed as their final match. I expect a clear finish where Brock goes over. However it shakes out, it should be a compelling match and a good PPV.
Overall, I'm enjoying the product right now. Not everything is perfect or great of course, but I don't have time to hate on it. Enjoy it for the good parts (see my list above) and leave out the junk. What do you do when the product is oversaturated? You only watch the few great things they do and everything else is highlights only. It keeps you fresh and hungry for the product especially when they put on above average or better commercial-free shows.
Solid plan, man. I'm strongly getting the feeling that my wife and oldest kid are kind of bored with watching Raw anymore. They were watching some kids movie last night that ran past 8pm a few minutes(I was playing my DS so it didn't matter to me), and my wife made the comment after the movie was over that "Okay, it's dad's turn with the TV." Really felt like we were only watchign Raw because I wanted to.
We love watching the Network specials and the PPV's, but Raw just drags so slow, with all the commerical breaks and recaps. I swear, out of a 3-hour show, I bet we actually see less than an hour of actual new footage. Having Cole recap every single thing that happened 3x over just makes watching the show unbearable.
Went on the site. Soon as I saw cena I went back. Not feeling Kane as champ.
If Kane becomes champ, this company has officially lost thier damn minds
Went on the site. Soon as I saw cena I went back. Not feeling Kane as champ.
I'm more concerned that the WWE is recycling the Abyss/Joseph Park multiple personality angle with Kane. The WWE writers must really be struggling for ideas when they're ripping off TNA.
Went on the site. Soon as I saw cena I went back. Not feeling Kane as champ.
I'm more concerned that the WWE is recycling the Abyss/Joseph Park multiple personality angle with Kane. The WWE writers must really be struggling for ideas when they're ripping off TNA.
They tend to rip off big tna angles a lot it's hilarious. I think the whole Kane with double personalities is done though
Who's the worst no selling tag team ever, the nasty boys, the Steiners, road warriors, or public enemy lol
I think Rick Steiner is one of the worst wrestlers in general, not just from a safety standpoint, but from pretty much every other criteria lmao.
At least The Road Warriors had amazing power moves to make up for no-selling. The Nasty's are like the most average team ever. Public Enemy just sucks, and would probably be #1 if not for Scott Steiner lol.
Dare I say the WWF (fuck the E in the A, lol) peaked in 1999, starting with the very first episode of RAW for that year.
The lady and I were watching on The Network, and I decided to start with 1999 just to get nostalgic for a bit. My goal has been to simply watch that year's RAW episodes, and PPVs accordingly, in order.
All I can say is the first episode of RAW from 1999 is light years better than any single PPV I've seen in the last several from WWE. You get a hardcore championship match between Road Dogg and Al Snow that goes all over the arena (including outside in the snow, where Dogg piledrives Snow through a stack of palletes for the last spot), killer promo spots, non-stop action, and to top it all off - a No DQ championship match between Mankind and The Rock, where Austin comes in and delivers justice to the Rock, getting Mankind the win, and it goes over without people fucking it all up and overbooking it.
The pop for Austin was fucking insane. This is what happens when you actually GIVE THE FUCKING AUDIENCE WHAT THEY WANT.
It's like they are purposely ruining wrestling now because they feel like they can't top that shit or something. It's fucking mind-boggling how much better the booking and writing was, even despite the fact that they were (and had to) compete with WCW at the time. It literally is just Triple H jerking himself and his ideas off and making billions.
Title. Change. On. RAW. Clean. Ending.
I can't repeat this the fuck enough, lmao.
/rant.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
The road warriors were great to watch but their in ring product was pretty bad, all those tag teams I listed were pretty bad wrestlers. The Steiners were probably the best out of all of them. The nasty boys were absolute trash in and out of the ring, I have no idea why they were ever held at such high standards by wcw and wwe. Public enemy was basically the nasty boys who do flips through tables. I just think it's funny how any of those guys on said teams could get like spike piledrived, and then get right up and rake the eye of the guy who did it and do a move on them lol
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
I understand what you're saying but you gotta understand it's a different time, as you said it WAS more intense. The Rock could have killed Mick Foley that that I quit match. It was crazy back then. With everything that they've learned about chair shots and concussions and bumps, they can't wrestle in the same way anymore. No pile drivers.
Wrestling is extremely dangerous in itself. Never mind when you add chairs and the crazy moves that are humaly possible. WWE can't have people doing super crazy stuff because of the inherant danger. Whether it's a head shot, pile driver, or insane top rope moves they can't have someone land on their head in every segment.
If WWE let Neville do 1/2 the stuff he's capable of off the top rope some people would shit their pants. But it would also increase the overall danger for Neville, and safety risk, for everyone... because then Neville, and everyone else, would have raised the bar for themselves and have to keep going. Personally, I believe Neville will bring out some spectacular stuff when neccessary, but they have to be careful about how they introduce it.
WWE is getting back to giving the talent a bit of space with their promos it seems like.
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
I understand what you're saying. Without getting too deep into it, although I think some of the best matches/match ups/feuds in history were played out through the late 90's in WWE I don't think that means it's any "better" than now, or should be compared so harshly. There was a lot of crappy stuff in there too.
Some things from the 70's 80's were amazing, too.
I think it's just DIFFERENT. It's hard to compare them for me because it was a totally different time in the WWE. The safety was handled differently so something like that "I Quit" match with The Rock and Mick Foley could NEVER happen now. I mean, I totally agree, that shit is INSANE.
Also because of the fact that WWE is now a "family" and publicly traded company. It changes everything. It changes the announcing, it changes the promos (less "live" mics and unscripted promos). That's just the way it is.
Comparing it today makes it unfair for the talent. You have to keep it all in perspective.
If you left it 100% to the talent of what to do in the ring things would be much different, but there's many reasons they (WWE) have to control it. Storyline, safety, etc.
I love certain wrestlers and matches from every era, but it's tough to compare them because of the different circumstances in each.
It's sad that I care more about the tag division than anything else.
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
I understand what you're saying but you gotta understand it's a different time, as you said it WAS more intense. The Rock could have killed Mick Foley that that I quit match. It was crazy back then. With everything that they've learned about chair shots and concussions and bumps, they can't wrestle in the same way anymore. No pile drivers.
Wrestling is extremely dangerous in itself. Never mind when you add chairs and the crazy moves that are humaly possible. WWE can't have people doing super crazy stuff because of the inherant danger. Whether it's a head shot, pile driver, or insane top rope moves they can't have someone land on their head in every segment.
If WWE let Neville do 1/2 the stuff he's capable of off the top rope some people would shit their pants. But it would also increase the overall danger for Neville, and safety risk, for everyone... because then Neville, and everyone else, would have raised the bar for themselves and have to keep going. Personally, I believe Neville will bring out some spectacular stuff when neccessary, but they have to be careful about how they introduce it.
WWE is getting back to giving the talent a bit of space with their promos it seems like.
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
I understand what you're saying. Without getting too deep into it, although I think some of the best matches/match ups/feuds in history were played out through the late 90's in WWE I don't think that means it's any "better" than now, or should be compared so harshly. There was a lot of crappy stuff in there too.
Some things from the 70's 80's were amazing, too.
I think it's just DIFFERENT. It's hard to compare them for me because it was a totally different time in the WWE. The safety was handled differently so something like that "I Quit" match with The Rock and Mick Foley could NEVER happen now. I mean, I totally agree, that shit is INSANE.
Also because of the fact that WWE is now a "family" and publicly traded company. It changes everything. It changes the announcing, it changes the promos (less "live" mics and unscripted promos). That's just the way it is.
Comparing it today makes it unfair for the talent. You have to keep it all in perspective.
If you left it 100% to the talent of what to do in the ring things would be much different, but there's many reasons they (WWE) have to control it. Storyline, safety, etc.
I love certain wrestlers and matches from every era, but it's tough to compare them because of the different circumstances in each.
I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing my point. I'm not asking the talent to be less safe or more dangerous, I'm asking them to act like they give a crap about what they're doing. The match I mentioned, D-Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, wasn't a spectacularly dangerous match. But, they wrestled like their livelihood depended on it. Here were two mid-carders, one of whom had a disasterously cheesy gimmick, and they gave you every ounce of energy they had. Toward the end, they botched a few moves, just because they were that exhausted from going full-throttle for so long. And this was just the show opener. I gave no craps about D-Lo or Val, but they made me a fan after that match.
I turned the PPV on from a completely neutral viewpoint; I had no idea what matches were featured, what feuds were active at the time, I just wanted to grab something from that era and watch it cold to see the differences from then to now.
I've been watching since around '83, so I know all about things in different eras just being "different." That's not the case today. WWE have truly lost their way. It's like watching a band who was amazing 2 decades ago but are just burnt out and lost their passion. Worst part is, there is plenty of passion in the WWE, but the talent is so overhandled and overscripted they can't show it or perform with it.
I think one of the worst parts is that the wrestlers don't even write their own promos. Sure, this has always been a thing here and there, but now it's everywhere. Even guys like Dean Ambrose, who could be an absolute nutcase on the mic, gets bogged down with trying to remember distertation-length, overworded promos. Only one or two talents are allowed to write their own promos, one of which is Bray Wyatt, and you can see the difference right away. I think it goes without saying that Roman Reigns doesn't write his own promos(thufferin' thuccotash!) and it makes him look like a complete knob. Dude has talent, but they're killing him with the lame promos.
Everything was just so much more intense back then. Even the announcers(good ol' JR) were into it, you could really feel their intensity and excitement. Nowadays it's all way overscripted and sterile. Way too tidy and corporate. Everyone's promos feel like they're reading cue cards. Match intensity is scaled back for safety, and to not give the kids at home any ideas or anything...
I understand what you're saying but you gotta understand it's a different time, as you said it WAS more intense. The Rock could have killed Mick Foley that that I quit match. It was crazy back then. With everything that they've learned about chair shots and concussions and bumps, they can't wrestle in the same way anymore. No pile drivers.
Wrestling is extremely dangerous in itself. Never mind when you add chairs and the crazy moves that are humaly possible. WWE can't have people doing super crazy stuff because of the inherant danger. Whether it's a head shot, pile driver, or insane top rope moves they can't have someone land on their head in every segment.
If WWE let Neville do 1/2 the stuff he's capable of off the top rope some people would shit their pants. But it would also increase the overall danger for Neville, and safety risk, for everyone... because then Neville, and everyone else, would have raised the bar for themselves and have to keep going. Personally, I believe Neville will bring out some spectacular stuff when neccessary, but they have to be careful about how they introduce it.
WWE is getting back to giving the talent a bit of space with their promos it seems like.
Everything you said Nos, +1000. I almost can't bring myself to watch older Raw's and PPV's, because they're so damn good compared to now. It's not nostalgia goggles, or rose tinted glasses, the old stuff is just that damn good.
I watched Summer Slam from '98, and even the opening match for the European title between Val Venis and D-Lo Brown went over 30 minutes, and the guys gave it their absolute all. Mid-carders, in a show-opener for the lowest rung belt, delivering a match leagues better than PPV main events now. Sheesh.
You said it, brother. I know I made a thread about nostalgia bias a few days ago (I'm the king of nostalgia bias), this stuff is most certainly NOT just nostalgia. It's objectively superb in comparison to what we get now. It's undeniable.
Along with everything you mentioned already, I love how they just threw no DQ matches, or any stipulation you don't see anymore, into the mix. The "I Quit" match at Royal Rumble '99 w Rock and Foley was ultra brutal; foley took like 15 chair shots to the head.
Shit is insane, lol.
I understand what you're saying. Without getting too deep into it, although I think some of the best matches/match ups/feuds in history were played out through the late 90's in WWE I don't think that means it's any "better" than now, or should be compared so harshly. There was a lot of crappy stuff in there too.
Some things from the 70's 80's were amazing, too.
I think it's just DIFFERENT. It's hard to compare them for me because it was a totally different time in the WWE. The safety was handled differently so something like that "I Quit" match with The Rock and Mick Foley could NEVER happen now. I mean, I totally agree, that shit is INSANE.
Also because of the fact that WWE is now a "family" and publicly traded company. It changes everything. It changes the announcing, it changes the promos (less "live" mics and unscripted promos). That's just the way it is.
Comparing it today makes it unfair for the talent. You have to keep it all in perspective.
If you left it 100% to the talent of what to do in the ring things would be much different, but there's many reasons they (WWE) have to control it. Storyline, safety, etc.
I love certain wrestlers and matches from every era, but it's tough to compare them because of the different circumstances in each.
I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing my point. I'm not asking the talent to be less safe or more dangerous, I'm asking them to act like they give a crap about what they're doing. The match I mentioned, D-Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, wasn't a spectacularly dangerous match. But, they wrestled like their livelihood depended on it. Here were two mid-carders, one of whom had a disasterously cheesy gimmick, and they gave you every ounce of energy they had. Toward the end, they botched a few moves, just because they were that exhausted from going full-throttle for so long. And this was just the show opener. I gave no craps about D-Lo or Val, but they made me a fan after that match.
I turned the PPV on from a completely neutral viewpoint; I had no idea what matches were featured, what feuds were active at the time, I just wanted to grab something from that era and watch it cold to see the differences from then to now.
I've been watching since around '83, so I know all about things in different eras just being "different." That's not the case today. WWE have truly lost their way. It's like watching a band who was amazing 2 decades ago but are just burnt out and lost their passion. Worst part is, their is plenty of passion in the WWE, but the talent is so overhandled and overscripted they can't show it or perform with it.
I think one of the worst parts is that the wrestlers don't even write their own promos. Sure, this has always been a thing here and there, but now it's everywhere. Even guys like Dean Ambrose, who could be an absolute nutcase on the mic, gets bogged down with trying to remember distertation-length, overworded promos. Only one or two talents are allowed to write their own promos, one of which is Bray Wyatt, and you can see the difference right away. I think it goes without saying that Roman Reigns doesn't write his own promos(thufferin' thuccotash!) and it makes him look like a complete knob. Dude has talent, but they're killing him with the lame promos.
Thank you, Jandrem, for saying what I was eventually going to say. Your description of what's wrong with modern WWE is spot on.
It has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with the wrestling itself.
I was actually talking with a buddy just the other day about how Val Venis was a solid mid-carder; gimmick or no gimmick, that guy was always in fantastic shape and could wrestle. I know exactly what you're saying about opening matches being killer more often than not BITD. It was like seeing a good rock band; that opening song has to get the crowd pumped for the rest of the show! That's how all the good old-school booking was done. I've been watching since about 1990, BTW.
Great post, sir.