Someone has sent Dream a standing offer to purchase his cart for $5k, this is 100% fact. There could be other factors that have a bearing on the $5k number, but I can tell you that the game undumped is currently "worth" at least $5k to one potential buyer. With that, he has at least that amount to "lose" after it has been dumped, so it seems more than reasonable that he has set that as his asking price for the dump.
I'm sure there are other reasons too, but I'm sure that was a factor in determining the price for this dump. Sorry if I worded anything oddly in my last post.
Anyway, hope more people are interested as I'd love to see this one out there!
This is awesome news for Kevin and his Frogger project. Why bother with a CIB release, just ask for $1,500 in donations from the community and give it away, let them bother with the CIB trials and tribulations. If that's the value of this kind of data, so be it.
Hear that Kevin, you might be closer to a release than you thought, and for way more profit!
Im willing to donate towards this release as well, the amount will be based on when I get my eproms and how many MTIPP carts I sell. I am willing to sell MTIPP carts for $20 US plus shipping all proceeds from that plus some of my own cash will go towards this release. Basically if I sell 10 MTIPP repros there a min of $200 coming from me. I don't think this is too hard to do.
This is awesome news for Kevin and his Frogger project. Why bother with a CIB release, just ask for $1,500 in donations from the community and give it away, let them bother with the CIB trials and tribulations. If that's the value of this kind of data, so be it.
Hear that Kevin, you might be closer to a release than you thought, and for way more profit!
hope your not doing it with donor carts because the re wiring on them is alot of work. and would be pretty costly in time low turn around kind of deal.
I'll clarify a few things. I traded a gray NWC cart for this straight up years ago. The cart is worth about what, $5000 now? That is my investment in this. I also have a standing offer for $5000 for the cart undumped.
I prefer people stay on topic about this and not derail the thread.
I've also said I would rather see this CIB, but that just depends on who all gets the money together for this, but that's what I have vested in this.
Dream has a standing offer to purchase the cart in it's current undumped state for $5,000. If it gets dumped, so does that offer. ------- With that, he has at least that amount to "lose" after it has been dumped, so it seems more than reasonable that he has set that as his asking price for the dump.
When the game is dumped, does it lose 100% of its value, then. I know that protos of dumped games are relatively inexpensive compared to, say, rare releases, even when there's only a few known copies, but does this 5000$ proto suddenly become a 0$ proto now that it's dumped.
Just a thought, it's a lot of money to ask for so one will have to have to deal with dickheads like me bitching about it, unfortunately. I understand that the company's history is for sale, rather than the game itself. And once it's given out, it isn't really worth what it once was anymore because it's out there. Curiosity quelled. Maybe buy a repro but that's not official so it's not really in high demand right now either.
But if it remains unsold, will its demand go up in a few years, or down? If it sells, is the object itself still worth anything? If you knew that a gray NWC would be floating around 5000$ now would you have even traded one away? If you ask three questions at once it's way more effective than having a point.
Originally posted by: DreamTR
I prefer people stay on topic about this and not derail the thread.
Oops. Even so, good luck with the project. It's a tall order to cover the price, but I suspect if you sold it to someone willing to pay 5000$ it would probably remain undumped. That's not really a private sale I'd expect to end up with sharing happening at the end.
Dream has a standing offer to purchase the cart in it's current undumped state for $5,000. If it gets dumped, so does that offer. ------- With that, he has at least that amount to "lose" after it has been dumped, so it seems more than reasonable that he has set that as his asking price for the dump.
When the game is dumped, does it lose 100% of its value, then. I know that protos of dumped games are relatively inexpensive compared to, say, rare releases, even when there's only a few known copies, but does this 5000$ proto suddenly become a 0$ proto now that it's dumped.
no, but by the same token its pretty easy to infer that its not for outright sale for 5k. Yes dumping it for 5k is a different animal and a better offer, but then that's no doubt why its acceptable where selling outright is not. OSG - I know what you mean, its way more than dough for that game than most anyone would find reasonable, but conversely if you had something that was one of a kind and fit in nicely with your collection, would you sell it cheap? I sure as hell wouldn't it would either get my price or just sit in my collection. Its a different mindframe than collecting regular / mass produced items which you can replace at any time. With one of a kinds if you let it go you're not getting it back again.. so if its something you like you just have to ask a whole pile of money for it or you're being foolish, plain and simple, and will regret the decsion. So I understand him playing it that way completely - its the only thing to do in that situation.
if you had something that was one of a kind and fit in nicely with your collection, would you sell it cheap?
No.
Originally posted by: Bronty
Yes dumping it for 5k is a different animal and a better offer [for DreamTR], but then that's no doubt why its acceptable where selling outright is not.
Originally posted by: Bronty
With one of a kinds if you let it go you're not getting it back again.. so if its something you like you just have to ask a whole pile of money for it or you're being foolish, plain and simple, and will regret the decsion.
Point.
Don't get me wrong with my earlier comments; I'm not trying to say that this offer is wrong or bad. It's sort of a weird kind of sale that can really be public. And if the public is willing to go for it, then so be it. But at the same time the public should be made aware of what and why that price exists. So I'm helping! Seriously!
At this kinda price though, it sounds like it may take multiple payments from people over a period of months. Get a pool of money built up, where people put in what they can when they can.
I love how this thread is half price arguing and half donations...
Anyways, I'm not volunteering any money right now but I would buy a CIB if it becomes available. I guess I can say the same as MRN, "$50 if that guarantees me a CIB".
If this is going to be done it will likely take alot more than mere donations to reach the goal. I think we'd have a beter shot if we organized a few community events with parts of the procedes benifitting the project in adition to donations. I have a feeling that this one will take awhile...
i would also be down for $50 if it guarantees a CIB, or $25 if its cart only..
two questions, if the $5k is collected what happens to the proto itself? and is it wortless?
Nothing happens to the proto, it still will have some value as it is an original prototype. The value will go down, yes, but it will still be worth a pretty penny. With 5K tho, it doesnt matter much if the value goes down because it pretty much covers it, plus he will still have the proto as an added bonus. So in essence by dumping it it is pretty much a win win situation besides the obvious of no longer owning a one of a kind game.
Just a quick FYI...unreleased undumped games ALWAYS have more demand. You have more groups of people willing to pay thousands for one, whereas DUMPED games fetch a few hundred at best if they are true protos.
Now granted, I will still want those games for my museum/library thingie, but Bronty is 100% correct on it being one-of-a-kind and a name your price or it stays sort of thing...this is the only way I can conceivably do this.
Also, in regards to the NWC trade...if there are 90-100 or so gray NWCs, and 1 War on Wheels undumped, wouldn't by definition the game being rarer be worth more? Not necessarily. It's always about demand, but when you have an opportunity like that, you either take it or leave it, so that's why the price is what it is.
So again, let's keep this on topic =P
I would even say if we can get 2 people to split the costs and split the funds on the thing, it makes it easier to deal with and the game gets released, everyone is happy and gets to play the game and has a new CIB release of an official licensed product, but I know this is not something that will be expedited.
I agree with Jason, you just have to own stuff like this to totally understand what he's saying. If you want it then you have to paticipate, just like he searched for it and found it. Good luck in any way to anyone.
Yes, I am only asking for $5000, not for anything after that. Whoever does the CIB is the one involved with making their own pricing, etc.
Ok, so the $5,000 is just for the ROM dump. I just wanted to be very clear on that because a lot of people on the first page are assuming that if they donate it is going to come back to them in some sort of cart/CIB format.
It sounds like what you're saying is that if we as a community donate $5k, you will allow the cart to be dumped, and then the individual who donates the most $$$ gets the ROM image and can then turn it into a cart/CIB release. This will cost that individual more $$$, and they will have to turn around and sell their carts/CIB's to recoup the costs; members who donated for the ROM project will have to pay again to get themselves a cart/CIB.
Now if this is what the community decides to do, I am more than happy to pony up again. HOWEVER, what I am slightly concerned with is that it sounds like we're turning the dump over to one individual, and not doing a free release of the ROM. I don't like the idea of donating to a project that will not benefit everyone. Above that even, while I understand from the many times NGD has lamented at the cost and effort to produce a CIB, I'm also not interested in donating to a project that potentially profits someone exclusively without any kickback to those that donated, most likely redistributed on a percentage basis. Now I understand this is exactly what the repro makers do, but the difference here is that they aren't doing it in the name of the community. I'm not against the idea of someone being paid for their efforts to put a cart/CIB project together, but such compensation should also be agreed upon by a majority prior to that phase moving forward. Anything made above and beyond should either be returned back to those that helped out as I mentioned, or could even get pooled back to NA for future projects.
Personally, if such things are adequately discussed and agree on, I am more than happy to donate $100 to see this thing move forward. But I won't do that without solid promises from DreamTR that if this thing goes south in any way he will allow the cart to be redumped (i.e. whoever ends up with the ROM decides to charge $150 a cart or something stupid like that). It would also be an added comfort to know who is going to head the cart/CIB release before sending cash to the general fund.
Yes, I am only asking for $5000, not for anything after that. Whoever does the CIB is the one involved with making their own pricing, etc.
HOWEVER, what I am slightly concerned with is that it sounds like we're turning the dump over to one individual, and not doing a free release of the ROM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it will be a public release of the Rom, no?
BeaglePuss> Would you be interested in sharing a CIB?
I would consider it, but I think it would be a SERIOUS production. Let me finish putting out my release, and see how smoothly that goes first.
Also, reading NESguy's post makes me wonder if people would be down for someone doing a CIB release in this fashion (and I completely agree with him). I could see people being put off by the idea of dropping $100 to get the rom dumped, only to have to drop another $65 for a CIB copy that may take a month or two to get in their hands. I know I wouldn't want to do that.
I think this project is a little too big for me at the moment. With that being said, I would still donate to this cause as this is the be-all-end-all prototype to me.
Please don't mistake me, I am not attempting any kind of derailment here. I have ZERO qualms with his asking price, and I have NO problem paying additionally for a preferable CIB release.
I'm just hesitant because as of yet there isn't a respected member of the community heading this project. NGD successfully funded two major CIB releases, so when he started threads saying he wanted to get certain ROMs dumped, I had no doubts that it would be finished. Similarly if bunnyboy, coinheaven, or one of the other repro makers said they'd be willing to jump on board for a cart release, no issues here about it being done. But therein lies my hangup right now, that no one has stepped forward. Personally I don't mind double paying; I just look at it as having a $7500 pricetag with $5000 of that going to DreamTR; lol, I even get to pay it in two interest-free installments, one for the ROM and one for the CIB!
Comments
Someone has sent Dream a standing offer to purchase his cart for $5k, this is 100% fact. There could be other factors that have a bearing on the $5k number, but I can tell you that the game undumped is currently "worth" at least $5k to one potential buyer. With that, he has at least that amount to "lose" after it has been dumped, so it seems more than reasonable that he has set that as his asking price for the dump.
I'm sure there are other reasons too, but I'm sure that was a factor in determining the price for this dump. Sorry if I worded anything oddly in my last post.
Anyway, hope more people are interested as I'd love to see this one out there!
Hear that Kevin, you might be closer to a release than you thought, and for way more profit!
This is awesome news for Kevin and his Frogger project. Why bother with a CIB release, just ask for $1,500 in donations from the community and give it away, let them bother with the CIB trials and tribulations. If that's the value of this kind of data, so be it.
Hear that Kevin, you might be closer to a release than you thought, and for way more profit!
I need to learn how to create games.
I'll clarify a few things. I traded a gray NWC cart for this straight up years ago. The cart is worth about what, $5000 now? That is my investment in this. I also have a standing offer for $5000 for the cart undumped.
I prefer people stay on topic about this and not derail the thread.
I've also said I would rather see this CIB, but that just depends on who all gets the money together for this, but that's what I have vested in this.
Dream has a standing offer to purchase the cart in it's current
undumped state for $5,000. If it gets dumped, so does that offer.
-------
With that, he has at least that amount to "lose" after it has been dumped, so it seems more than reasonable that he has set that as his asking price for the dump.
When the game is dumped, does it lose 100% of its value, then. I know that protos of dumped games are relatively inexpensive compared to, say, rare releases, even when there's only a few known copies, but does this 5000$ proto suddenly become a 0$ proto now that it's dumped.
Just a thought, it's a lot of money to ask for so one will have to have to deal with dickheads like me bitching about it, unfortunately. I understand that the company's history is for sale, rather than the game itself. And once it's given out, it isn't really worth what it once was anymore because it's out there. Curiosity quelled. Maybe buy a repro but that's not official so it's not really in high demand right now either.
But if it remains unsold, will its demand go up in a few years, or down? If it sells, is the object itself still worth anything? If you knew that a gray NWC would be floating around 5000$ now would you have even traded one away? If you ask three questions at once it's way more effective than having a point.
I prefer people stay on topic about this and not derail the thread.
Oops. Even so, good luck with the project. It's a tall order to cover the price, but I suspect if you sold it to someone willing to pay 5000$ it would probably remain undumped. That's not really a private sale I'd expect to end up with sharing happening at the end.
Dream has a standing offer to purchase the cart in it's current undumped state for $5,000. If it gets dumped, so does that offer.
-------
With that, he has at least that amount to "lose" after it has been dumped, so it seems more than reasonable that he has set that as his asking price for the dump.
When the game is dumped, does it lose 100% of its value, then. I know that protos of dumped games are relatively inexpensive compared to, say, rare releases, even when there's only a few known copies, but does this 5000$ proto suddenly become a 0$ proto now that it's dumped.
no, but by the same token its pretty easy to infer that its not for outright sale for 5k. Yes dumping it for 5k is a different animal and a better offer, but then that's no doubt why its acceptable where selling outright is not. OSG - I know what you mean, its way more than dough for that game than most anyone would find reasonable, but conversely if you had something that was one of a kind and fit in nicely with your collection, would you sell it cheap? I sure as hell wouldn't it would either get my price or just sit in my collection. Its a different mindframe than collecting regular / mass produced items which you can replace at any time. With one of a kinds if you let it go you're not getting it back again.. so if its something you like you just have to ask a whole pile of money for it or you're being foolish, plain and simple, and will regret the decsion. So I understand him playing it that way completely - its the only thing to do in that situation.
if you had something that was one of a kind and fit in nicely with your collection, would you sell it cheap?
No.
Yes dumping it for 5k is a different animal and a better offer [for DreamTR], but
then that's no doubt why its acceptable where selling outright is not.
With one of a kinds if you let it go you're not getting it back again.. so if its something you like you just have to ask a whole pile of money for it or you're being foolish, plain and simple, and will regret the decsion.
Point.
Don't get me wrong with my earlier comments; I'm not trying to say that this offer is wrong or bad. It's sort of a weird kind of sale that can really be public. And if the public is willing to go for it, then so be it. But at the same time the public should be made aware of what and why that price exists. So I'm helping! Seriously!
Honest!
At this kinda price though, it sounds like it may take multiple payments from people over a period of months. Get a pool of money built up, where people put in what they can when they can.
Anyways, I'm not volunteering any money right now but I would buy a CIB if it becomes available. I guess I can say the same as MRN, "$50 if that guarantees me a CIB".
If this is going to be done it will likely take alot more than mere donations to reach the goal. I think we'd have a beter shot if we organized a few community events with parts of the procedes benifitting the project in adition to donations. I have a feeling that this one will take awhile...
two questions, if the $5k is collected what happens to the proto itself? and is it wortless?
i would also be down for $50 if it guarantees a CIB, or $25 if its cart only..
two questions, if the $5k is collected what happens to the proto itself? and is it wortless?
Nothing happens to the proto, it still will have some value as it is an original prototype. The value will go down, yes, but it will still be worth a pretty penny. With 5K tho, it doesnt matter much if the value goes down because it pretty much covers it, plus he will still have the proto as an added bonus. So in essence by dumping it it is pretty much a win win situation besides the obvious of no longer owning a one of a kind game.
Now granted, I will still want those games for my museum/library thingie, but Bronty is 100% correct on it being one-of-a-kind and a name your price or it stays sort of thing...this is the only way I can conceivably do this.
Also, in regards to the NWC trade...if there are 90-100 or so gray NWCs, and 1 War on Wheels undumped, wouldn't by definition the game being rarer be worth more? Not necessarily. It's always about demand, but when you have an opportunity like that, you either take it or leave it, so that's why the price is what it is.
So again, let's keep this on topic =P
I would even say if we can get 2 people to split the costs and split the funds on the thing, it makes it easier to deal with and the game gets released, everyone is happy and gets to play the game and has a new CIB release of an official licensed product, but I know this is not something that will be expedited.
It seems to be unclear so far, but are you asking $5000 for the ROM dump AND to fund a CIB release, or are you asking $5k for just the dump?
That's just for the dump. CIB would be left up to the person that donates the most (if they chose to do so).
If you want it then you have to paticipate, just like he searched for it and found it. Good luck in any way to anyone.
Yes, I am only asking for $5000, not for anything after that. Whoever does the CIB is the one involved with making their own pricing, etc.
Ok, so the $5,000 is just for the ROM dump. I just wanted to be very clear on that because a lot of people on the first page are assuming that if they donate it is going to come back to them in some sort of cart/CIB format.
It sounds like what you're saying is that if we as a community donate $5k, you will allow the cart to be dumped, and then the individual who donates the most $$$ gets the ROM image and can then turn it into a cart/CIB release. This will cost that individual more $$$, and they will have to turn around and sell their carts/CIB's to recoup the costs; members who donated for the ROM project will have to pay again to get themselves a cart/CIB.
Now if this is what the community decides to do, I am more than happy to pony up again. HOWEVER, what I am slightly concerned with is that it sounds like we're turning the dump over to one individual, and not doing a free release of the ROM. I don't like the idea of donating to a project that will not benefit everyone. Above that even, while I understand from the many times NGD has lamented at the cost and effort to produce a CIB, I'm also not interested in donating to a project that potentially profits someone exclusively without any kickback to those that donated, most likely redistributed on a percentage basis. Now I understand this is exactly what the repro makers do, but the difference here is that they aren't doing it in the name of the community. I'm not against the idea of someone being paid for their efforts to put a cart/CIB project together, but such compensation should also be agreed upon by a majority prior to that phase moving forward. Anything made above and beyond should either be returned back to those that helped out as I mentioned, or could even get pooled back to NA for future projects.
Personally, if such things are adequately discussed and agree on, I am more than happy to donate $100 to see this thing move forward. But I won't do that without solid promises from DreamTR that if this thing goes south in any way he will allow the cart to be redumped (i.e. whoever ends up with the ROM decides to charge $150 a cart or something stupid like that). It would also be an added comfort to know who is going to head the cart/CIB release before sending cash to the general fund.
I'm also interested in doing a CIB with someone to split the production cost.
But it depends on if there's donor carts involved, with donors it can be very expencive.
BeaglePuss> Would you be interested in sharing a CIB?
Yes, I am only asking for $5000, not for anything after that. Whoever does the CIB is the one involved with making their own pricing, etc.
HOWEVER, what I am slightly concerned with is that it sounds like we're turning the dump over to one individual, and not doing a free release of the ROM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it will be a public release of the Rom, no?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it will be a public release of the Rom, no?
That was what I thought too....
BeaglePuss> Would you be interested in sharing a CIB?
I would consider it, but I think it would be a SERIOUS production. Let me finish putting out my release, and see how smoothly that goes first.
Also, reading NESguy's post makes me wonder if people would be down for someone doing a CIB release in this fashion (and I completely agree with him). I could see people being put off by the idea of dropping $100 to get the rom dumped, only to have to drop another $65 for a CIB copy that may take a month or two to get in their hands. I know I wouldn't want to do that.
I think this project is a little too big for me at the moment. With that being said, I would still donate to this cause as this is the be-all-end-all prototype to me.
I'm just hesitant because as of yet there isn't a respected member of the community heading this project. NGD successfully funded two major CIB releases, so when he started threads saying he wanted to get certain ROMs dumped, I had no doubts that it would be finished. Similarly if bunnyboy, coinheaven, or one of the other repro makers said they'd be willing to jump on board for a cart release, no issues here about it being done. But therein lies my hangup right now, that no one has stepped forward. Personally I don't mind double paying; I just look at it as having a $7500 pricetag with $5000 of that going to DreamTR; lol, I even get to pay it in two interest-free installments, one for the ROM and one for the CIB!