some dude from system of a down, or whatever that band is called, just bought some comic for like 300k recently, but he stated that he was just the middle man... he got it for someone else
Edit*this was to be posted after Dream's post before Bronty's
of course there are comic books worth over $100 000 for instance superman first edition in mint condition. hockey cards can also have an insanly high price to them like the first cards that were made back in the early 1900's if you had one in mint condition you would be paying a pretty penny to own it. one of a kind peices of artwork worth in the millions. you wouldn't see the museum that owns the Mona Lisa try and sell it for like 10k because it is worth exponentially more.
heck even the most obsurd items can be worth alot for instance a glass insulator (the kind you find/found on hydro poles can be worth in the thousands insane yes but people are willing to pay the price for items they collect. If you want to own something that is for right now one of a kind it only stands to reason that the price will be high.
Your use of fair just isn't accurate. If he had a deal with you where you bought a box of protos together and you two split them but after they arrive he changed the agreed upon rules of the split to get the ones he wanted , That is not fair. When the rules are stated up front and the rules are followed then you can't say something isn't fair. You can say the price is high or more than the game is worth. You don't even have to like it. but to say unfair imples something I haven't seen here.
If he takes the 5k and pulls a Hounder THAT would not be fair. If he pulls a bait an switch and dumpes another game instead THAT would not be fair. If he gets to 5k and then says 8k and doesn't give back the first 5k THAT would not be fair. If he asks for a TON of money and people pay it then sorry buddy but that is fair. Changing the rules along the way is not fair. It is his game and he gets to set the rules so play or don't play.
Ok.. you obviously knew what I ment when I said fair.. as people very commonly use it the way I did.. but for the sake of if, just change all my "fair"s to "unreasonable"s.. as your grasping at straws, and trying anything to water down a legitimate arguement with out offering any real return.
Thank you Arch, for giving me a better word.
I don't think unreasonable is the best word here either. Or perhaps it is I dunno.
I'd sell anything in my collection for the right price. You might not like the price but I'd sell it.
That is what we have here. His price is 5k. Less than that and he will keep it. People asked him his price was and he thought about it and came up with a price.
Q Hey how much for this?
A I dunno. I don't want to sell it but I would for 5k.
dragonlunch: You just completely overlooked that those numbers are not what I value the cart at. If you want to know what I actually would sell War on Wheels for, it's closer to $10,000, and not $5000, so the "actual" value of what I would sell the cart for and have it be on display and not in my hands anymore is significantly higher, similar to a CGE Expo running museum thing. I'm trying to offer these cheaper than what it would take for me to actually sell the things, but I keep getting people upset that "you just want to keep a cart" and not even taking into consideration time/effort it went through to get contacts and find these things. I still have people I have been talking to for YEARS to get items that I still do not have, so this is not some once and done process with games...
Again, this is more of a morality issue that people seem to have a problem with. It boils down to whether or not people want to see new releases whether it be from old games or not. If you don't like my terms which I don't think are unfair at all, the games stay with me, but this thread isn't created to "help" anything, all it is going to do is irritate and make it that much easier for people new to the scene to NOT want anything to do with releasing more games in the future; it's another one of those not seeing the whole picture issues. I know a lot of people are in agreement with me, and others are basically upset that they can not dictate where something should go that is not in their possession, but that's ridiculous.
I mean, if everyone wants my stuff, someone can go and get me a couple of NWCs (gold and gray) back for some of these games that I had to get, but no one lines up to do that, LOL
Yes I think your getting the idea.. People are a little upset, that you want to do one of two things. Have the community pay the value of the cart, and not get the cart, basically meaning, the community is paying for and building your collection, or.. you want to sell the cart to make a massive profit. Unless of course your telling me you paid 10,000 dollars for a War on Wheels proto, or you invested $10,000 worth of labor hunting it down.. I doubt either of those is true. I could say I want a million dollars for my tow nail clippings, and I have every right to put them on sale.. no one is gonna pay for them though, so it doesnt matter what I value them at.
I know you put time and effort in attaining these, and im not saying that it is easy work.. but honestly how much do you think your time and effort is worth? a 40 hour a week minimum wage worker makes about 10-12k a year. You have tons and tons of protos. Are you saying you put 6 months of 40 hour works weeks into attaining War on Wheels?
Originally posted by: maximus_clean
If members do not want to be a part of something or contribute to what Dream is offering, why can't you let those who wish to contribute do it in peace? It seems that those willing to pay for these dumps do not care, so why should you if it isn't your money?
I think its obvious, that we are letting things go on in peace, which is why Roth made this post. So we can peacefully discuss our feelings amongst ourselves without causing trouble. If we didnt want peace, we would be going onto Dreams threads, and dropping turds.
People comming here telling us we dont have a right to discuss community events. Or name calling (haters for example), and attacking a thread, is quite the extreme opposite of peacefull.
Originally posted by: DreamTR
FallenAngel, it's not crossing a border. Collecting ANYTHING can get this high or even more. You just aren't educated in the items. What you CHOOSE to collect and how much you want to spend is not a valid argument in the thread. You think some comic books are worth $100,000? ANY collecting circle has stuff that is high end that people "will not pay for" because of the usual "use the money for something else" speech. Heck, you could say that about anything. Going out to drink, smoking, everything is a waste of money and we are just renting our life on this earth anyway!
Yeah dude, but you gotta think, delibertly and single handidly trying to drive up the market price of your possesions for your personal profit is not going to be looked upon with all smiles. People just arent going to be happy, when you pay the value of a one of a kind item, and then say.. HA now no one can see this item, unless you pay me more then I already payed for it, and even then you only get to look at it, I still get to own it. Not saying you dont have the right to do this. There are some things in my life I would not want to share with the world, but probly would for the right price. Its your shit..DO as you like.. just saying, people might wanna talk about it, which is also understadable, and they have the right to do.
dragonlunch: You just completely overlooked that those numbers are not what I value the cart at. If you want to know what I actually would sell War on Wheels for, it's closer to $10,000, and not $5000, so the "actual" value of what I would sell the cart for and have it be on display and not in my hands anymore is significantly higher, similar to a CGE Expo running museum thing. I'm trying to offer these cheaper than what it would take for me to actually sell the things, but I keep getting people upset that "you just want to keep a cart" and not even taking into consideration time/effort it went through to get contacts and find these things. I still have people I have been talking to for YEARS to get items that I still do not have, so this is not some once and done process with games...
Again, this is more of a morality issue that people seem to have a problem with. It boils down to whether or not people want to see new releases whether it be from old games or not. If you don't like my terms which I don't think are unfair at all, the games stay with me, but this thread isn't created to "help" anything, all it is going to do is irritate and make it that much easier for people new to the scene to NOT want anything to do with releasing more games in the future; it's another one of those not seeing the whole picture issues. I know a lot of people are in agreement with me, and others are basically upset that they can not dictate where something should go that is not in their possession, but that's ridiculous.
I mean, if everyone wants my stuff, someone can go and get me a couple of NWCs (gold and gray) back for some of these games that I had to get, but no one lines up to do that, LOL
Yes I think your getting the idea.. People are a little upset, that you want to do one of two things. Have the community pay the value of the cart, and not get the cart, basically meaning, the community is paying for and building your collection, or.. you want to sell the cart to make a massive profit. Unless of course your telling me you paid 10,000 dollars for a War on Wheels proto, or you invested $10,000 worth of labor hunting it down.. I doubt either of those is true. I could say I want a million dollars for my tow nail clippings, and I have every right to put them on sale.. no one is gonna pay for them though, so it doesnt matter what I value them at.
I know you put time and effort in attaining these, and im not saying that it is easy work.. but honestly how much do you think your time and effort is worth? a 40 hour a week minimum wage worker makes about 10-12k a year. You have tons and tons of protos. Are you saying you put 6 months of 40 hour works weeks into attaining War on Wheels?
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
LOL! Thanks for this smooth comment Zach. It made me laugh, and then I felt relaxed.
dragonlunch: I traded an NWC for it. If I want to make something off it, that's MY business. That's why I'm not OUTRIGHT selling it for $10,000, but that's my price if anyone wants it. Hence the only $5000 price for the dump.
And honestly, when did we start getting into how much something costs and whether or not I can profit from it? You really think people are going to sell things for EXACTLY what they paid for them knowing that it is worth more money?
You are trying to use my time and effort as a "wage" basis. You have to be kidding me. If I find $10,000 on the floor it's still MY $10,000. Just because I did not "pay" as much for my video game collection because I bought/sold to acquire the profit to get the games, that does not mean I should not get profit from it all. Now you're just being crazy with this post.
Again, I'm not trying to sell it, but it's one of a kind, and $5000 is what it would take to dump it. I traded an NWC to get it. It does not matter if I paid thousands for the NWC or found it on the floor. YOu think people are just going to sell something for what they paid? I'm doing a dump only, but you are acting like "profit" from anything is a bad thing or taboo. You realize what forum you are on? LOL
Also, I'm not singlehandedly trying to drive up my possessions. You're way out of line on that one. If I was doing so, I would have SOLD all my freaking protos instead of keeping/buying them. Dragonlunch, I'm not sure what your deal is here, but it's not your cart and it's not even a question anymore. I took it off the market. That's my price and believe me, I have bent over backwards getting a lot of my protos out there and selling a lot of my doubles at super cheap prices to help people out, but you're beating a dead horse with this one. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Simple as that.
You can't make everyone happy, and there will always be naysayers. The same naysayers probably steal music and burn CDs or download movies and it's ok to them. Have me sell ONE thing at a higher price because it's one of a kind and I am the evil hording proto lord. OH BUTTER!
Anybody complaining about profit from anything need never to buy/sell on this forum because I'm as far from doing that as anyone. I sell stuff on eBay here and there, and that's about it. If money is an issue, go to pcenginefx.com and see how "nice' people treat you there if you try and sell anything remotely CLOSE to eBay prices.
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
Dont forget these are community projects. Its not like some dude on ebay selling something for an outrageous price.. Which I do see alot of you complaigning about all the time, even those backing dream with the "its his stuff he can do what he wants and you dont have the right to complaign" comments. We can feel upset that we as a community are getting charged alot, for something we may feel is worth less. Thats why we are a community, we communicate, we dont act like this is Ebay. Im not saying someone should be walking away form the computer emotionally, im just saying "upset" as in we are not quite in agreement with something.
"that's my price if anyone wants it."
No problem or dissagreement there.
"And honestly, when did we start getting into how much something costs and whether or not I can profit from it? You really think people are going to sell things for EXACTLY what they paid for them knowing that it is worth more money?"
No I dont think that at all, but you have been acting like your only doing this for the community and not for profit at all, your acting like your the one loosing out here. Now your saying the opposite, that you want to make a profit.. which is it?
"Just because I did not "pay" as much for my video game collection because I bought/sold to acquire the profit to get the games, that does not mean I should not get profit from it all. Now you're just being crazy with this post."
I agree totally agree with you.. Just next time dont try to play it off like your loosing out. I know you may not want to let some of the rareness of your game go, but still you should not act like your loosing profit, and then turn around and act like your getting a profit.
"Now you're just being crazy with this post. "
Now im being crazy.. but you keep changing your story.. your saying two diffrent things at once.. how can I keep my sanity.
"I'm doing a dump only, but you are acting like "profit" from anything is a bad thing or taboo. You realize what forum you are on? LOL"
Dont get so worked up. I never acted like profit was bad in any of my posts.. I just wanted you to admit your making a profit, and not just doing this to aid the community. I have bought stuff to resell a few times.. But I never brought the Item into the community and resold it to them, acting like I was loosing out, and I was only doing it to help them.
Now I know these are two totally diffrent ducks, but imagine this. I walk three miles to a thrift shop, and buy a Zelda gold for $1.. Then I come home and log onto NA. I make a sale thread. FS Zelda Gold cart $45. Selling this Cart as is, I dont have time to tell you anyhting about it, what conidtion its in, or anyhting.. But im asking $45, because I had to walk in the hot sun to get this badboy. This cart may or may not interest you.. but im not taking any offers.. this is $45 firm. I dont really want to let this go, as I am a huge Zelda fan, but im giving you NA members a shot at it, because im just that nice.
Now people are just gonna think im lame and move on.. alot of people will probly stop by my thread and call me stupid, or an asshole. The only diffrence is.. anyone can get a Zelda Gold, so if im an being a unreasonable with my sale, no one really cares.
"Also, I'm not singlehandedly trying to drive up my possessions."
Then what does it mean when someone buys a one of a kind item at around the same price everyone else in the market was willing to pay for it, then that person takes it off the market, and says this item is only for sale at my new price, and if you dont like it, O well dont buy it.. this is the new price of said item.? I guess im way out of line, even though im describing what you yourself are doing and saying in this very thread.
"Have me sell ONE thing at a higher price because it's one of a kind and I am the evil hording proto lord. OH BUTTER! "
Well, I cant speak for anyone else, but I dont belive that, and I think your collection is pretty awesome, even though im not into protos. I still belive you are right, and you have the right to do as you please. Dont get me wrong Dream.. you are in the right here, and its your possesion I cant and dont want to tell you what to do with them.. Im just expressing my feelings and opinions.
Community project as "interest check". We tried that with War on Wheels. Not happening anymore. No need to bring it up. The only project up and running right now is Exerion II.
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
Dont forget these are community projects. Its not like some dude on ebay selling something for an outrageous price.. Which I do see alot of you complaigning about all the time, even those backing dream with the "its his stuff he can do what he wants and you dont have the right to complaign" comments. We can feel upset that we as a community are getting charged alot, for something we may feel is worth less. Thats why we are a community, we communicate, we dont act like this is Ebay. Im not saying someone should be walking away form the computer emotionally, im just saying "upset" as in we are not quite in agreement with something.
I really dont see the validity of that argument. If i think something is to high then I dont buy it. if I go to the Grocery Store and Steak is Priced to High I can A. not buy it B. Get it Somewhere else C. Run to the manager that the Price is to much
It seems like a lot of people here would choose choice C
I think the problem is that because you can't get that "steak" anywhere else, so people feel a need to complain if the only person able to get the steak is making money off of it. Some people just can't accept that, but if this steak comes out once every couple of years, questioning the price, you have every right, but once you heard why the steak was priced the way it was and realized it was FAIR, then it's hard to justify trying to get it cheaper.
Exactly.. its like a gas shortage, and the gas stations start charging $50 a gallon. People are gonna get angry. This isnt a situation where people have the option to go to another grocery store. Dream is in sole control.. but hey its his gas. Its his right to sell his gas for whatever he wants. Just saying I dont think his gas is a friendly price.. but hey.. i need to get to work, so Dream fill er up! thats exactly how I feel. I am still willing to pay your prices to fill my need dream.. im just not happy with it.
Dragonlunch: All I know is I traded a gold NWC for Squashed, a Gray NWC for Taro's Quest, and a gray Nwc for War on WHeels. I'm thinking what I am asking is not so much as my sacrifice to GET those games. So my "gas" still cost me quite a bit.
I was bored, so I made this.. I hope this lightens the mood in here. I enjoy you all, and though I dont agree with everyone 100% of the time, I still think everyone in this community is great.. So taking a break from arguing I shall post this!
But, it's basically selling some people's programs, and if they're abandonware or not, I really don't know. This is what kinda irks me, I think. Someone mentioned a few things like NWC and what-not earlier. I don't purchase those for the same reason; it irks me.
Now, it's kind of different here, because DreamTR puts effort into getting contacts, from what I understand. So that adds something to it.
So there is no effort added into fabricating the NWC cart? Guess we will see a flood of other people making them now because it is so easy The price doesn't pay for the NWC ROM, it is for parts, labor, and the result of years of skilled education. With DreamTR you are paying for decades of industry contacts and large sums paid to get the carts on the incredibly rare occasions they are available. If more people had those there might be more than one big proto source, but its likely few others even know the guys these protos are originally coming from. It is likely few others are even trying to get those contacts.
Originally posted by: nesguy
What if we took whatever price the proto owner has requested for his ROM dump, and just auto-tacked $1500 (or whatever getting carts and labels made costs) onto it to make it a cart release, then just stopped this whole ROM issue? Then everyone who donates gets something physical to hold on to, and after the initial release no more carts are made. The ROM is made available at a later date (6 months or something) and so everyone gets it, but the cart owners got something special by donating and getting to play the game earlier.
Once you send the carts out the ROM will be available. There is no way to hold back people from dumping their cart and distributing it or making reproductions. By linking the ROM and the cart together you are also rejecting any money from smaller donors. Only those willing to put up $75-100+ will get something, and finding 100 of those people will be much harder. It also addresses none of the complaints about profits, other people's work, value of the proto, etc.
Originally posted by: dragonlunch
Have the community pay the value of the cart, and not get the cart, basically meaning, the community is paying for and building your collection, or.. you want to sell the cart to make a massive profit.
This isn't the value of the cart, its the value lost which has been historically shown for years from many protos across many systems. Everyone far beyond this community gets the ROM which is the only part of the total cart value that is being paid for, and the single most valuable part of an undumped/unreleased game. The value for the ROM is certainly opinion but the proto itself dropping in value is fact.
Originally posted by: dragonlunch
I know you put time and effort in attaining these, and im not saying that it is easy work.. but honestly how much do you think your time and effort is worth? a 40 hour a week minimum wage worker makes about 10-12k a year. You have tons and tons of protos. Are you saying you put 6 months of 40 hour works weeks into attaining War on Wheels?
There are many people here that easily make 10K in a month, and a few that make 10K in 2 weeks. Should they be allowed more profit without complaint because the time they invest is worth more? If Erik (sorry Mr Moneybags) was selling this would the money problem be bigger or smaller? All my rare carts are worth around double what I paid for them, just because I bought them a few years ago. Absolutely zero time and effort since then, but many thousands of dollars in profit if sold.
Originally posted by: dragonlunch
We can feel upset that we as a community are getting charged alot, for something we may feel is worth less.
But nobody is being charged, it is all completely voluntary. If you think is is worth less, don't contribute. Those that do think it is worth more will and you still get all the benefits. If you think it is worth $0, and you put in $0, you still get the ROM for $0. People say don't thread crap because then nobody gets the benefits. Starting a new thread is a good idea but won't help when nobody even suggests what "worth less" is.
Would you be similarly upset if he didnt trade away the gray NWC but instead successfully sold it today for $6K? Similar profit off of someone else's work, tons of people would say its not worth that much, community gets nothing, but who would be angry? Certainly not the person who actually put up the money and did think it was worth that much.
-------
Roth had some great topics for discussion, and price wasn't even one of them. Why is it the dominant force in the thread? Are the actual complaints only about the profit, and everything else is just an excuse?
This thread is 10 years old. The have nots will not be silenced !
and it becomes laughable every single time, lol. Everyone always talks a good game about stuff but when push comes to shove and it is their money it is a different tune. Take old Dutch for instance, he was ALL about releasing ROMs if he got any....well he has some now and I haven't played them yet for his new proto.....talk is cheap and everyone can do it. ~~NGD
of course not Phil. Your beard alone is 200% cooler than Dutch right off the bat I was just giving an example that everyone would agree on, hehe. I phil, his skullet and his beard!!!! ~~NGD
Legit questions that haven't been covered, and I need to know this information before having a relevant opinion here...
1. Is "War on Wheels" the holy grail of prototypes? Or is it just another unreleased prototype?
2. Any estimate on the number of unreleased, undumped NES protos still in existance? If we can't get an accurate guess, then how many are confirmed in collector's hands?
I'm wondering why this game is any different from any other unreleased undumped proto...
It's different in the sense that is unreleased in all formats:
1. Hoppin' Mad: Released on a few comp systems, most notably the C64
2. Ditka: Released as Quarterback Scamble in Japan
3. Free Fall: ROM has been available for years
4. Airball: Various ROMs had been available to the public
5. Hit the Ice: Famicom port
etc., etc...
WoW is one of the few remaining COMPLETE, undumped, unreleased games on ANY format, so it makes it a bigger deal than a lot of the other possible candidates. A lot of the other games that fall into this category (American Crisis, Arcadia VI, etc.) are very much incomplete, so their desirability is substantially lower.
Well hope no one here thinks im a douche. Just wanted to throw out my two coins. Like I said from the begining though, Its Dreams stuff, he can do as he likes. Ill be happy for him if he makes some cash. As of right now there are no protos on the table I am interested in anyway, but if something ever does come up that I want, im sure ill front what ever cash is demanded for a rom release.
It is also a game from a licensed company with many quality projects. This doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is good, but at least not immediately expected to be bad given their history.
Well hope no one here thinks im a douche. Just wanted to throw out my two coins. Like I said from the begining though, Its Dreams stuff, he can do as he likes. Ill be happy for him if he makes some cash. As of right now there are no protos on the table I am interested in anyway, but if something ever does come up that I want, im sure ill front what ever cash is demanded for a rom release.
Are there any unreleased RPGs?
I thought Dream had a AD&D game that wasn't released? Am I wrong on that??
Comments
Edit*this was to be posted after Dream's post before Bronty's
of course there are comic books worth over $100 000 for instance superman first edition in mint condition.
hockey cards can also have an insanly high price to them like the first cards that were made back in the early 1900's if you had one in mint condition you would be paying a pretty penny to own it. one of a kind peices of artwork worth in the millions. you wouldn't see the museum that owns the Mona Lisa try and sell it for like 10k because it is worth exponentially more.
heck even the most obsurd items can be worth alot for instance a glass insulator (the kind you find/found on hydro poles can be worth in the thousands insane yes but people are willing to pay the price for items they collect. If you want to own something that is for right now one of a kind it only stands to reason that the price will be high.
He has the only one.
Your use of fair just isn't accurate. If he had a deal with you where you bought a box of protos together and you two split them but after they arrive he changed the agreed upon rules of the split to get the ones he wanted , That is not fair. When the rules are stated up front and the rules are followed then you can't say something isn't fair. You can say the price is high or more than the game is worth. You don't even have to like it. but to say unfair imples something I haven't seen here.
If he takes the 5k and pulls a Hounder THAT would not be fair. If he pulls a bait an switch and dumpes another game instead THAT would not be fair. If he gets to 5k and then says 8k and doesn't give back the first 5k THAT would not be fair. If he asks for a TON of money and people pay it then sorry buddy but that is fair. Changing the rules along the way is not fair. It is his game and he gets to set the rules so play or don't play.
Ok.. you obviously knew what I ment when I said fair.. as people very commonly use it the way I did.. but for the sake of if, just change all my "fair"s to "unreasonable"s.. as your grasping at straws, and trying anything to water down a legitimate arguement with out offering any real return.
Thank you Arch, for giving me a better word.
I don't think unreasonable is the best word here either. Or perhaps it is I dunno.
I'd sell anything in my collection for the right price. You might not like the price but I'd sell it.
That is what we have here. His price is 5k. Less than that and he will keep it. People asked him his price was and he thought about it and came up with a price.
Q Hey how much for this?
A I dunno. I don't want to sell it but I would for 5k.
Q You are being unreasonable.
A ..........ok I'll keep it.
dragonlunch: You just completely overlooked that those numbers are not what I value the cart at. If you want to know what I actually would sell War on Wheels for, it's closer to $10,000, and not $5000, so the "actual" value of what I would sell the cart for and have it be on display and not in my hands anymore is significantly higher, similar to a CGE Expo running museum thing. I'm trying to offer these cheaper than what it would take for me to actually sell the things, but I keep getting people upset that "you just want to keep a cart" and not even taking into consideration time/effort it went through to get contacts and find these things. I still have people I have been talking to for YEARS to get items that I still do not have, so this is not some once and done process with games...
Again, this is more of a morality issue that people seem to have a problem with. It boils down to whether or not people want to see new releases whether it be from old games or not. If you don't like my terms which I don't think are unfair at all, the games stay with me, but this thread isn't created to "help" anything, all it is going to do is irritate and make it that much easier for people new to the scene to NOT want anything to do with releasing more games in the future; it's another one of those not seeing the whole picture issues. I know a lot of people are in agreement with me, and others are basically upset that they can not dictate where something should go that is not in their possession, but that's ridiculous.
I mean, if everyone wants my stuff, someone can go and get me a couple of NWCs (gold and gray) back for some of these games that I had to get, but no one lines up to do that, LOL
Yes I think your getting the idea.. People are a little upset, that you want to do one of two things. Have the community pay the value of the cart, and not get the cart, basically meaning, the community is paying for and building your collection, or.. you want to sell the cart to make a massive profit. Unless of course your telling me you paid 10,000 dollars for a War on Wheels proto, or you invested $10,000 worth of labor hunting it down.. I doubt either of those is true. I could say I want a million dollars for my tow nail clippings, and I have every right to put them on sale.. no one is gonna pay for them though, so it doesnt matter what I value them at.
I know you put time and effort in attaining these, and im not saying that it is easy work.. but honestly how much do you think your time and effort is worth? a 40 hour a week minimum wage worker makes about 10-12k a year. You have tons and tons of protos. Are you saying you put 6 months of 40 hour works weeks into attaining War on Wheels?
If members
do not want to be a part of something or contribute to what Dream is
offering, why can't you let those who wish to contribute do it in
peace? It seems that those willing to pay for these dumps do not care,
so why should you if it isn't your money?
I think its obvious, that we are letting things go on in peace, which is why Roth made this post. So we can peacefully discuss our feelings amongst ourselves without causing trouble. If we didnt want peace, we would be going onto Dreams threads, and dropping turds.
People comming here telling us we dont have a right to discuss community events. Or name calling (haters for example), and attacking a thread, is quite the extreme opposite of peacefull.
FallenAngel,
it's not crossing a border. Collecting ANYTHING can get this high or
even more. You just aren't educated in the items. What you CHOOSE to
collect and how much you want to spend is not a valid argument in the
thread. You think some comic books are worth $100,000? ANY collecting
circle has stuff that is high end that people "will not pay for"
because of the usual "use the money for something else" speech. Heck,
you could say that about anything. Going out to drink, smoking,
everything is a waste of money and we are just renting our life on this
earth anyway!
Yeah dude, but you gotta think, delibertly and single handidly trying to drive up the market price of your possesions for your personal profit is not going to be looked upon with all smiles. People just arent going to be happy, when you pay the value of a one of a kind item, and then say.. HA now no one can see this item, unless you pay me more then I already payed for it, and even then you only get to look at it, I still get to own it. Not saying you dont have the right to do this. There are some things in my life I would not want to share with the world, but probly would for the right price. Its your shit..DO as you like.. just saying, people might wanna talk about it, which is also understadable, and they have the right to do.
dragonlunch: You just completely overlooked that those numbers are not what I value the cart at. If you want to know what I actually would sell War on Wheels for, it's closer to $10,000, and not $5000, so the "actual" value of what I would sell the cart for and have it be on display and not in my hands anymore is significantly higher, similar to a CGE Expo running museum thing. I'm trying to offer these cheaper than what it would take for me to actually sell the things, but I keep getting people upset that "you just want to keep a cart" and not even taking into consideration time/effort it went through to get contacts and find these things. I still have people I have been talking to for YEARS to get items that I still do not have, so this is not some once and done process with games...
Again, this is more of a morality issue that people seem to have a problem with. It boils down to whether or not people want to see new releases whether it be from old games or not. If you don't like my terms which I don't think are unfair at all, the games stay with me, but this thread isn't created to "help" anything, all it is going to do is irritate and make it that much easier for people new to the scene to NOT want anything to do with releasing more games in the future; it's another one of those not seeing the whole picture issues. I know a lot of people are in agreement with me, and others are basically upset that they can not dictate where something should go that is not in their possession, but that's ridiculous.
I mean, if everyone wants my stuff, someone can go and get me a couple of NWCs (gold and gray) back for some of these games that I had to get, but no one lines up to do that, LOL
Yes I think your getting the idea.. People are a little upset, that you want to do one of two things. Have the community pay the value of the cart, and not get the cart, basically meaning, the community is paying for and building your collection, or.. you want to sell the cart to make a massive profit. Unless of course your telling me you paid 10,000 dollars for a War on Wheels proto, or you invested $10,000 worth of labor hunting it down.. I doubt either of those is true. I could say I want a million dollars for my tow nail clippings, and I have every right to put them on sale.. no one is gonna pay for them though, so it doesnt matter what I value them at.
I know you put time and effort in attaining these, and im not saying that it is easy work.. but honestly how much do you think your time and effort is worth? a 40 hour a week minimum wage worker makes about 10-12k a year. You have tons and tons of protos. Are you saying you put 6 months of 40 hour works weeks into attaining War on Wheels?
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them
If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them
If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
LOL!
Thanks for this smooth comment Zach.
It made me laugh, and then I felt relaxed
dragonlunch: I traded an NWC for it. If I want to make something off it, that's MY business. That's why I'm not OUTRIGHT selling it for $10,000, but that's my price if anyone wants it. Hence the only $5000 price for the dump.
And honestly, when did we start getting into how much something costs and whether or not I can profit from it? You really think people are going to sell things for EXACTLY what they paid for them knowing that it is worth more money?
You are trying to use my time and effort as a "wage" basis. You have to be kidding me. If I find $10,000 on the floor it's still MY $10,000. Just because I did not "pay" as much for my video game collection because I bought/sold to acquire the profit to get the games, that does not mean I should not get profit from it all. Now you're just being crazy with this post.
Again, I'm not trying to sell it, but it's one of a kind, and $5000 is what it would take to dump it. I traded an NWC to get it. It does not matter if I paid thousands for the NWC or found it on the floor. YOu think people are just going to sell something for what they paid? I'm doing a dump only, but you are acting like "profit" from anything is a bad thing or taboo. You realize what forum you are on? LOL
Also, I'm not singlehandedly trying to drive up my possessions. You're way out of line on that one. If I was doing so, I would have SOLD all my freaking protos instead of keeping/buying them. Dragonlunch, I'm not sure what your deal is here, but it's not your cart and it's not even a question anymore. I took it off the market. That's my price and believe me, I have bent over backwards getting a lot of my protos out there and selling a lot of my doubles at super cheap prices to help people out, but you're beating a dead horse with this one. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. Simple as that.
You can't make everyone happy, and there will always be naysayers. The same naysayers probably steal music and burn CDs or download movies and it's ok to them. Have me sell ONE thing at a higher price because it's one of a kind and I am the evil hording proto lord. OH BUTTER!
Anybody complaining about profit from anything need never to buy/sell on this forum because I'm as far from doing that as anyone. I sell stuff on eBay here and there, and that's about it. If money is an issue, go to pcenginefx.com and see how "nice' people treat you there if you try and sell anything remotely CLOSE to eBay prices.
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them
If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
Dont forget these are community projects. Its not like some dude on ebay selling something for an outrageous price.. Which I do see alot of you complaigning about all the time, even those backing dream with the "its his stuff he can do what he wants and you dont have the right to complaign" comments. We can feel upset that we as a community are getting charged alot, for something we may feel is worth less. Thats why we are a community, we communicate, we dont act like this is Ebay. Im not saying someone should be walking away form the computer emotionally, im just saying "upset" as in we are not quite in agreement with something.
"that's my price if anyone wants it."
No problem or dissagreement there.
"And honestly, when did we start getting into how much something costs
and whether or not I can profit from it? You really think people are
going to sell things for EXACTLY what they paid for them knowing that
it is worth more money?"
No I dont think that at all, but you have been acting like your only doing this for the community and not for profit at all, your acting like your the one loosing out here. Now your saying the opposite, that you want to make a profit.. which is it?
"Just because I did not "pay" as much for my video game collection
because I bought/sold to acquire the profit to get the games, that does
not mean I should not get profit from it all. Now you're just being
crazy with this post."
I agree totally agree with you.. Just next time dont try to play it off like your loosing out. I know you may not want to let some of the rareness of your game go, but still you should not act like your loosing profit, and then turn around and act like your getting a profit.
"Now you're just being crazy with this post. "
Now im being crazy.. but you keep changing your story.. your saying two diffrent things at once.. how can I keep my sanity.
"I'm doing a dump only, but you are acting like "profit" from anything
is a bad thing or taboo. You realize what forum you are on? LOL"
Dont get so worked up. I never acted like profit was bad in any of my posts.. I just wanted you to admit your making a profit, and not just doing this to aid the community. I have bought stuff to resell a few times.. But I never brought the Item into the community and resold it to them, acting like I was loosing out, and I was only doing it to help them.
Now I know these are two totally diffrent ducks, but imagine this. I walk three miles to a thrift shop, and buy a Zelda gold for $1.. Then I come home and log onto NA. I make a sale thread. FS Zelda Gold cart $45. Selling this Cart as is, I dont have time to tell you anyhting about it, what conidtion its in, or anyhting.. But im asking $45, because I had to walk in the hot sun to get this badboy. This cart may or may not interest you.. but im not taking any offers.. this is $45 firm. I dont really want to let this go, as I am a huge Zelda fan, but im giving you NA members a shot at it, because im just that nice.
Now people are just gonna think im lame and move on.. alot of people will probly stop by my thread and call me stupid, or an asshole. The only diffrence is.. anyone can get a Zelda Gold, so if im an being a unreasonable with my sale, no one really cares.
"Also, I'm not singlehandedly trying to drive up my possessions."
Then what does it mean when someone buys a one of a kind item at around the same price everyone else in the market was willing to pay for it, then that person takes it off the market, and says this item is only for sale at my new price, and if you dont like it, O well dont buy it.. this is the new price of said item.? I guess im way out of line, even though im describing what you yourself are doing and saying in this very thread.
"Have me sell ONE thing at a higher price because it's one of a kind and I am the evil hording proto lord. OH BUTTER! "
Well, I cant speak for anyone else, but I dont belive that, and I think your collection is pretty awesome, even though im not into protos. I still belive you are right, and you have the right to do as you please. Dont get me wrong Dream.. you are in the right here, and its your possesion I cant and dont want to tell you what to do with them.. Im just expressing my feelings and opinions.
People should not be upset about it. If they dont want to donate no one is making them
If people are actually getting upset because someone is trying to sell something then they have issues and need to take a deep breath and relax
Dont forget these are community projects. Its not like some dude on ebay selling something for an outrageous price.. Which I do see alot of you complaigning about all the time, even those backing dream with the "its his stuff he can do what he wants and you dont have the right to complaign" comments. We can feel upset that we as a community are getting charged alot, for something we may feel is worth less. Thats why we are a community, we communicate, we dont act like this is Ebay. Im not saying someone should be walking away form the computer emotionally, im just saying "upset" as in we are not quite in agreement with something.
I really dont see the validity of that argument. If i think something is to high then I dont buy it.
if I go to the Grocery Store and Steak is Priced to High I can
A. not buy it
B. Get it Somewhere else
C. Run to the manager that the Price is to much
It seems like a lot of people here would choose choice C
Now this is making me hungry!
Its doesn't mater what the price of gas is we still buy it don't we.
I think we already discussed that, but thanx for reiterating.
But, it's basically selling some people's programs, and if they're abandonware or not, I really don't know. This is what kinda irks me, I think. Someone mentioned a few things like NWC and what-not earlier. I don't purchase those for the same reason; it irks me.
Now, it's kind of different here, because DreamTR puts effort into getting contacts, from what I understand. So that adds something to it.
What if we took whatever price the proto owner has requested for his ROM dump, and just auto-tacked $1500 (or whatever getting carts and labels made costs) onto it to make it a cart release, then just stopped this whole ROM issue? Then everyone who donates gets something physical to hold on to, and after the initial release no more carts are made. The ROM is made available at a later date (6 months or something) and so everyone gets it, but the cart owners got something special by donating and getting to play the game earlier.
Have the community pay the value of the cart, and not get the cart, basically meaning, the community is paying for and building your collection, or.. you want to sell the cart to make a massive profit.
This isn't the value of the cart, its the value lost which has been historically shown for years from many protos across many systems. Everyone far beyond this community gets the ROM which is the only part of the total cart value that is being paid for, and the single most valuable part of an undumped/unreleased game. The value for the ROM is certainly opinion but the proto itself dropping in value is fact.
I know you put time and effort in attaining these, and im not saying that it is easy work.. but honestly how much do you think your time and effort is worth? a 40 hour a week minimum wage worker makes about 10-12k a year. You have tons and tons of protos. Are you saying you put 6 months of 40 hour works weeks into attaining War on Wheels?
We can feel upset that we as a community are getting charged alot, for something we may feel is worth less.
god this thread needs to be put out of its misery
This thread is 10 years old. The have nots will not be silenced !
god this thread needs to be put out of its misery
This thread is 10 years old. The have nots will not be silenced !
and it becomes laughable every single time, lol. Everyone always talks a good game about stuff but when push comes to shove and it is their money it is a different tune. Take old Dutch for instance, he was ALL about releasing ROMs if he got any....well he has some now and I haven't played them yet for his new proto.....talk is cheap and everyone can do it.
~~NGD
of course not Phil. Your beard alone is 200% cooler than Dutch right off the bat
I was just giving an example that everyone would agree on, hehe. I 
phil, his skullet and his beard!!!!
~~NGD
1. Is "War on Wheels" the holy grail of prototypes? Or is it just another unreleased prototype?
2. Any estimate on the number of unreleased, undumped NES protos still in existance? If we can't get an accurate guess, then how many are confirmed in collector's hands?
I'm wondering why this game is any different from any other unreleased undumped proto...
1. Hoppin' Mad: Released on a few comp systems, most notably the C64
2. Ditka: Released as Quarterback Scamble in Japan
3. Free Fall: ROM has been available for years
4. Airball: Various ROMs had been available to the public
5. Hit the Ice: Famicom port
etc., etc...
WoW is one of the few remaining COMPLETE, undumped, unreleased games on ANY format, so it makes it a bigger deal than a lot of the other possible candidates. A lot of the other games that fall into this category (American Crisis, Arcadia VI, etc.) are very much incomplete, so their desirability is substantially lower.
Are there any unreleased RPGs?
Well hope no one here thinks im a douche. Just wanted to throw out my two coins. Like I said from the begining though, Its Dreams stuff, he can do as he likes. Ill be happy for him if he makes some cash. As of right now there are no protos on the table I am interested in anyway, but if something ever does come up that I want, im sure ill front what ever cash is demanded for a rom release.
Are there any unreleased RPGs?
I thought Dream had a AD&D game that wasn't released? Am I wrong on that??