Maybe this thread has been discussed but, here goes....
No one wants to see their passion fall by the wayside or their prized collection plummet in value. However, history has shown many of the collecting "fads" that were mainstream seem to dwindle down to just a few. With it many of the saught after items seemed to fall in value. Just look at baseball cards, toys, comics. Not to mention a few others in the recent past like POGS, Pokeymon cards, and Beanie Babies.
I remember not too long ago when the comic rage hit. The market was flooded with collectors editions and new spin offs to make as many first editions as possible. Now today we see the value of said comics are less than half of their cover price. Don't get me wrong I'm not putting Superman vol.1 in the same class by no means. But, I'm sure even the value of that single issue has fallen some. If only for the sheer drop in numbers of people looking for it.
It makes me wonder if once the fad wears off if our passion might suffer the same fate. And, yes I am a new comer to retro games but the more I'm around it the more I love it!!
Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I'm not sure you can compare the retro gaming market with the fall of comic books. A lot of what plagued the comic book market was trade paperbacks. For those who don't know these are collections of several old, and new, comics in a series that are reproduced by the comic book company as a single volume (or sometimes many volumes). This new product deflated the value of the originals because people could now get there hands on highly sought after comics that were included in the trade paperback.
The only thing I've seen so far that could even possibly be compared to this would be Retrozone's PowerPak, but I think it's not a proper comparison because the brief time I have spent in the market shows that retro game collectors are true collectors meaning they want the tangible cart. I may be wrong, but it would seem this market is stronger because as it's been stated no officially licensed material is being produced to artificially deflate values. Just my opinion though which combined with about $5 will get you a cup of coffee
"fall" of comic books? Just so you know the vintage comic market has never been stronger. The 90s crap has fallen, sure, but it never should have been that high to start with. It was the equivalent of random PSP games selling for $500 each
Maybe this thread has been discussed but, here goes....
No one wants to see their passion fall by the wayside or their prized collection plummet in value. However, history has shown many of the collecting "fads" that were mainstream seem to dwindle down to just a few. With it many of the saught after items seemed to fall in value. Just look at baseball cards, toys, comics. Not to mention a few others in the recent past like POGS, Pokeymon cards, and Beanie Babies.
I remember not too long ago when the comic rage hit. The market was flooded with collectors editions and new spin offs to make as many first editions as possible. Now today we see the value of said comics are less than half of their cover price. Don't get me wrong I'm not putting Superman vol.1 in the same class by no means. But, I'm sure even the value of that single issue has fallen some. If only for the sheer drop in numbers of people looking for it.
It makes me wonder if once the fad wears off if our passion might suffer the same fate. And, yes I am a new comer to retro games but the more I'm around it the more I love it!!
Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I'm not sure you can compare the retro gaming market with the fall of comic books. A lot of what plagued the comic book market was trade paperbacks. For those who don't know these are collections of several old, and new, comics in a series that are reproduced by the comic book company as a single volume (or sometimes many volumes). This new product deflated the value of the originals because people could now get there hands on highly sought after comics that were included in the trade paperback.
The only thing I've seen so far that could even possibly be compared to this would be Retrozone's PowerPak, but I think it's not a proper comparison because the brief time I have spent in the market shows that retro game collectors are true collectors meaning they want the tangible cart. I may be wrong, but it would seem this market is stronger because as it's been stated no officially licensed material is being produced to artificially deflate values. Just my opinion though which combined with about $5 will get you a cup of coffee
"fall" of comic books? Just so you know the vintage comic market has never been stronger. The 90s crap has fallen, sure, but it never should have been that high to start with. It was the equivalent of random PSP games selling for $500 each
Worse. It was like people paying $10 for Sega games !
While we're discussing hypotheticals, I'd like to throw another one out: What if a console company goes out of business? In an economy like this with such big corporations tanking, I don't think it is such a far-fetched idea. Still, I'd say it's highly unlikely that would ever happen to Nintendo, but at at age 10 (in the prime of Genesis) I would have never believed Sega would stop making consoles either.
I think more companies may try to get in the console game due to all of the huge demand already discussed. You might see an "iConsole" or maybe something from Google to compete with Microsoft, who even knows?
While we're discussing hypotheticals, I'd like to throw another one out: What if a console company goes out of business? In an economy like this with such big corporations tanking, I don't think it is such a far-fetched idea. Still, I'd say it's highly unlikely that would ever happen to Nintendo, but at at age 10 (in the prime of Genesis) I would have never believed Sega would stop making consoles either.
I think more companies may try to get in the console game due to all of the huge demand already discussed. You might see an "iConsole" or maybe something from Google to compete with Microsoft, who even knows?
Just food for thought.
Even if Nintendo died the characters would be around. Mario is not going anywhere.
As a long time comic collector I can say that the comic market and values have only risen significantly in the past two decades. I think a distinction has to be made between the newer stuff and low and mid grade stuff you find in a comic shop and the rare investment grade items. Any high grade Superman comic from the 40's and 50's has only risen in value. The value of Action Comics #1 which I believe sold for about $90,000 in 1990 today in NM condition would sell for millions. I think it's just a matter of what you collect and what is available to the average collector has seen little increase because it is usually common or not an investment grade item. Take a look at some of the sales at comiclink.com for an example and you will get a better idea of where the high end comic market is right now.
I dont think anyone is addressing the fact that no new people will be entering our market. Or at least very few people.
The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, even Atari had higher production I would think. (This is assuming you incorporate longevity of both products.) The other more important reason is that its really easy to get into hockey cards and comic books very cheaply. Usually your Dad/Uncle/Brother will give you like 5 to start off with and off you go. To enter the Video game market today you generally need to wait for a birthday or X-mas as a child as your shelling out at least $350 right off the bat. The thing is people being born will have no reason to buy retro games until they play their own first. Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games. If you are serious about collecting comics or hockey cards and you want to get the first ones you actually have to get them. Now the same could be argued about video games, however there is ALWAYS, always an out for a video game collector which is download a ROM it may not be the same nostalgic feeling but for the majority of gamers (I would guess in the %80+ range) its enough to tide them over. That being said new gamers in the market hold no nostalgic ties to any game. However this is only comparing video games to comic books and sports cards let move on to my main point.
Unfortunately retro gaming moves more and more away from the current gaming market. Games are getting much more complex, much more graphic intensive and are almost always online because of this older games do not appeal to the masses. The majority of gamers today like either easy games where everything is just handed to them like a (sandbox type game) or are so caught up in competition that they insist of screaming like Yahoo's into their mic's. Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition. Our video games are hard with no competition. It takes a very special person to find them interesting. Usually someone would have to see one of your collections to even consider playing old Video Games/Downloading ROMS let alone buying them? Am I right? How often to people rummage through your room and say "Oh I have this game!" not had but "have". Further more have you ever brought in a child who has never played a NES/Snes and have them say I prefer these games to my Wii/Xbox/PS3? Chances are you have answered No to all of these questions.
I do not think that the video game market will die. Ever. However I do not see retro video games being worth hundreds of thousands anytime soon and when they finally do it wont be the stadium events that will be worth anything. It will be the Mario's and Zelda's the games that started it all and they will be antiques. Maybe in another 100 years if something happens to destroy 3/4 of the current Nes games and population increases another 1.5 billion people you can see that happening. For now though I think it is highly unlikely that any licensed NES game will push past 50K.
I dont think anyone is addressing the fact that no new people will be entering our market. Or at least very few people.
The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, even Atari had higher production I would think. (This is assuming you incorporate longevity of both products.) The other more important reason is that its really easy to get into hockey cards and comic books very cheaply. Usually your Dad/Uncle/Brother will give you like 5 to start off with and off you go. To enter the Video game market today you generally need to wait for a birthday or X-mas as a child as your shelling out at least $350 right off the bat. The thing is people being born will have no reason to buy retro games until they play their own first. Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games. If you are serious about collecting comics or hockey cards and you want to get the first ones you actually have to get them. Now the same could be argued about video games, however there is ALWAYS, always an out for a video game collector which is download a ROM it may not be the same nostalgic feeling but for the majority of gamers (I would guess in the %80+ range) its enough to tide them over. That being said new gamers in the market hold no nostalgic ties to any game. However this is only comparing video games to comic books and sports cards let move on to my main point.
Unfortunately retro gaming moves more and more away from the current gaming market. Games are getting much more complex, much more graphic intensive and are almost always online because of this older games do not appeal to the masses. The majority of gamers today like either easy games where everything is just handed to them like a (sandbox type game) or are so caught up in competition that they insist of screaming like Yahoo's into their mic's. Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition. Our video games are hard with no competition. It takes a very special person to find them interesting. Usually someone would have to see one of your collections to even consider playing old Video Games/Downloading ROMS let alone buying them? Am I right? How often to people rummage through your room and say "Oh I have this game!" not had but "have". Further more have you ever brought in a child who has never played a NES/Snes and have them say I prefer these games to my Wii/Xbox/PS3? Chances are you have answered No to all of these questions.
I do not think that the video game market will die. Ever. However I do not see retro video games being worth hundreds of thousands anytime soon and when they finally do it wont be the stadium events that will be worth anything. It will be the Mario's and Zelda's the games that started it all and they will be antiques. Maybe in another 100 years if something happens to destroy 3/4 of the current Nes games and population increases another 1.5 billion people you can see that happening. For now though I think it is highly unlikely that any licensed NES game will push past 50K.
Just my $.02
If you paid 2c for that post you got ripped off
Briefly:
"The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, "
--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible.
"Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games".
--Sigh. Counterfeits and more importantly REPRINTS of cards and comics are all over the place. If all you want to do is enjoy reading Superman 1 I can get you a readable copy for $5. But if you want the genuine article... $10,000 to start, for a beat up piece of crap copy.
"Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition"
--It doesn't matter what hardcore gamers like. It matters whether people who are hardcore COLLECTORS are drawn to this stuff.
--------
This is the way I look at it. There is NO money in the collector pool right now. I'm halfway considered a big wheel and I'm just a dude paying down my mortgage, making a pretty decent living but far from rich. In comics (which I've had an interest in for over 20 years) I am an absolute peon, a nobody. People have single comics better than my entire collection. Frankly, any hobby where I'm considered to have a lot of money, and where braveheart = moneybags is a joke financially. (All due respect to erik, just sayin'). Our hobby is dirt poor right now. So.... you ever get a few people with ACTUAL money collecting this stuff then prices for the best stuff will be NUTS compared to what you are used to. That's it, plain and simple. Now you can debate whether or not those big money guys will ever come into the hobby but five guys like that would turn this hobby upside down.
The fact is the collector pool is a buncha fucking broke teenagers and the odd 30 year old guy with a half decent salary (the "money"). That is nickels and dimes and peanuts.
I dont think anyone is addressing the fact that no new people will be entering our market. Or at least very few people.
The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, even Atari had higher production I would think. (This is assuming you incorporate longevity of both products.) The other more important reason is that its really easy to get into hockey cards and comic books very cheaply. Usually your Dad/Uncle/Brother will give you like 5 to start off with and off you go. To enter the Video game market today you generally need to wait for a birthday or X-mas as a child as your shelling out at least $350 right off the bat. The thing is people being born will have no reason to buy retro games until they play their own first. Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games. If you are serious about collecting comics or hockey cards and you want to get the first ones you actually have to get them. Now the same could be argued about video games, however there is ALWAYS, always an out for a video game collector which is download a ROM it may not be the same nostalgic feeling but for the majority of gamers (I would guess in the %80+ range) its enough to tide them over. That being said new gamers in the market hold no nostalgic ties to any game. However this is only comparing video games to comic books and sports cards let move on to my main point.
Unfortunately retro gaming moves more and more away from the current gaming market. Games are getting much more complex, much more graphic intensive and are almost always online because of this older games do not appeal to the masses. The majority of gamers today like either easy games where everything is just handed to them like a (sandbox type game) or are so caught up in competition that they insist of screaming like Yahoo's into their mic's. Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition. Our video games are hard with no competition. It takes a very special person to find them interesting. Usually someone would have to see one of your collections to even consider playing old Video Games/Downloading ROMS let alone buying them? Am I right? How often to people rummage through your room and say "Oh I have this game!" not had but "have". Further more have you ever brought in a child who has never played a NES/Snes and have them say I prefer these games to my Wii/Xbox/PS3? Chances are you have answered No to all of these questions.
I do not think that the video game market will die. Ever. However I do not see retro video games being worth hundreds of thousands anytime soon and when they finally do it wont be the stadium events that will be worth anything. It will be the Mario's and Zelda's the games that started it all and they will be antiques. Maybe in another 100 years if something happens to destroy 3/4 of the current Nes games and population increases another 1.5 billion people you can see that happening. For now though I think it is highly unlikely that any licensed NES game will push past 50K.
Just my $.02
If you paid 2c for that post you got ripped off
Briefly:
"The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, "
--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible.
"Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games".
--Sigh. Counterfeits and more importantly REPRINTS of cards and comics are all over the place. If all you want to do is enjoy reading Superman 1 I can get you a readable copy for $5. But if you want the genuine article... $10,000 to start, for a beat up piece of crap copy.
"Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition"
--It doesn't matter what hardcore gamers like. It matters whether people who are hardcore COLLECTORS are drawn to this stuff.
--------
This is the way I look at it. There is NO money in the collector pool right now. I'm halfway considered a big wheel and I'm just a dude paying down my mortgage, making a pretty decent living but far from rich. In comics (which I've had an interest in for over 20 years) I am an absolute peon, a nobody. People have single comics better than my entire collection. Frankly, any hobby where I'm considered to have a lot of money, and where braveheart = moneybags is a joke financially. (All due respect to erik, just sayin'). Our hobby is dirt poor right now. So.... you ever get a few people with ACTUAL money collecting this stuff then prices for the best stuff will be NUTS compared to what you are used to. That's it, plain and simple. Now you can debate whether or not those big money guys will ever come into the hobby but five guys like that would turn this hobby upside down.
The fact is the collector pool is a buncha fucking broke teenagers and the odd 30 year old guy with a half decent salary (the "money"). That is nickels and dimes and peanuts.
"--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible."
The point I was attempting to make was that sports cards are much more destructible. They last no where near as long as even the most early video games will.
"--Sigh. Counterfeits and more importantly REPRINTS of cards and comics are all over the place. If all you want to do is enjoy reading Superman 1 I can get you a readable copy for $5. But if you want the genuine article... $10,000 to start, for a beat up piece of crap copy."
This I can accept fair enough.
"--It doesn't matter what hardcore gamers like. It matters whether people who are hardcore COLLECTORS are drawn to this stuff."
You misunderstand the problem is not the hard core gamer. Its the run of the mill gamer who owns a wii and only a wii who just plays rockband, guitar hero, wii music ect ect. The point I was trying to make is that you cant have hard core collectors with out hardcore gamers who also like to look to the past at where things started. Yes there are hard core collectors now...but for how long? 10 more years? 50? 100? It doesnt matter because eventually the number of people who care about classics will dwindle and the ones that do care will be able to download them for a few bucks on what ever console they own.
You will always have people who collect. Thats simple. However the number of people who do will slowly slip away as time passes. How many people do you know who collect Radio's? Radio's were just as big if not bigger then Video game's and yet there are only a handful of people who collect them now. I can understand the stance you take as you probobly have more sealed games then anyone on the website however dont feel threatened by what I say. Im not saying they are worthless or are even going to become worthless anytime soon. All I am saying is that they will not appreciate forever.
I can understand the stance you take as you probobly have more sealed games then anyone on the website however dont feel threatened by what I say. Im not saying they are worthless or are even going to become worthless anytime soon. All I am saying is that they will not appreciate forever.
I'm not being defensive I am just stating my opinion. YES I do like the "chances" of them continuing to appreciate but I fully understand that they may not, and I don't care. I haven't sold them while they've appreciated, won't sell if they appreciate more, and won't sell if they depreciate either. I have them because I like them.
You will always have people who collect. Thats simple. However the number of people who do will slowly slip away as time passes. How many people do you know who collect Radio's? Radio's were just as big if not bigger then Video game's and yet there are only a handful of people who collect them now.
This argument I can understand and while I don't agree with it I definitely agree that its one possible outcome; yes you may proven to be right. But nobody really knows for sure. I would honestly have thought comics collecting would have been dead by now; the "big books" are 70 years old now. Seventy! Nobody who was around then collects them now. But, because they kept putting out new batmans, interest has always stayed there on the #1 and the other vintage books.
Really its that simple with nintendo. If they are still putting out new marios and zeldas and whatever else, the interest will always be there. If the company goes under, collecting old nintendo games as a hobby goes under.
^You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Although Nintendo"could" go under and it would still be a hobby if another company picked up the license for Mario, Link ect. But yea this hobby is highly dependent on the company just like DC,Marvel,Topps,Disney ect. In today's world I dont think Nintendo will falter. It is the biggest contender in the oligopoly. However just like Radio's conventional video games may become obsolete. We may start to see more "virtual reality" games we are starting to see this in games such as guitar hero. When this happens I think it would be fair to say the hobby will dissipate.
I don't know about this whole Nintendo "going under" thing. Atari, if I remember correctly, DID go under and someone bought the name. I'm pretty sure they went under, too, and someone ELSE bought the name. Atari doesn't exist, really, as much more then a brand now. And there are still adamant Atari 2600 collectors out there. If the same thing befell Nintendo, the brand would still be there, and people would remember the NES.
I wouldnt say the Radio argument holds up too well.
The reason the Radio was so popular was due to what was being broadcast on it, it was something so new and great having a stranger talk in your room miles away. The only reason to collect Radios now is purely cosmetical as you can never hear those shows again.
Video games however, you have a cosmetic factor alongside an interactive audio/visual experience everytime!
I don't know about this whole Nintendo "going under" thing. Atari, if I remember correctly, DID go under and someone bought the name. I'm pretty sure they went under, too, and someone ELSE bought the name. Atari doesn't exist, really, as much more then a brand now. And there are still adamant Atari 2600 collectors out there. If the same thing befell Nintendo, the brand would still be there, and people would remember the NES.
Atari's basically been dead for 20 years... and the prices have fallen not increased in the last five years. So... its as good an example as we can get IMO
I think the Nostalgia point is quite the accurate one as it is obviously the driving force behind this hobby. Everyone is drawn to the hobby by remembering their childhood games, and then some people take the extra step and go for them all, or expand to other systems they missed.
Look at braveheart, he collects NES and Game Gear... game gear appeals to him because he grew up on it. Look at SuperNESMan, he's only 14 but he beat Super Mario Bros. when he was 3. He grew up on NES thanks to his dad even if he wasn't around for it's beginning.
Now look at today's kids who grow up on Wii and play NES games through the virtual console. Will they be collectors of the future? Sure there could be exceptions to the rule, but nostalgia will not be a factor here. They might want to grab a hard copy of Mario or Zelda just to get the original (as with the comic book example), but do you think they'll want a Stadium Events right off the bat?
Quote = Bronty:
"--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible."
Following this logic, a dead Mint Super Mario Bros. would be the analogy here. This is like saying "Everyone had Mario, everyone remembers it, condition is a big factor and MINT ones will reach absurd levels". That comic book analogy says nothing to the rares of the hobby.
I think all of the classics will steadily appreciate in value as long as Nintendo keeps making sequels down the road to appeal to the next generation of gamers.
I think the Nostalgia point is quite the accurate one as it is obviously the driving force behind this hobby. Everyone is drawn to the hobby by remembering their childhood games, and then some people take the extra step and go for them all, or expand to other systems they missed.
Look at braveheart, he collects NES and Game Gear... game gear appeals to him because he grew up on it. Look at SuperNESMan, he's only 14 but he beat Super Mario Bros. when he was 3. He grew up on NES thanks to his dad even if he wasn't around for it's beginning.
Now look at today's kids who grow up on Wii and play NES games through the virtual console. Will they be collectors of the future? Sure there could be exceptions to the rule, but nostalgia will not be a factor here. They might want to grab a hard copy of Mario or Zelda just to get the original (as with the comic book example), but do you think they'll want a Stadium Events right off the bat?
Quote = Bronty: "--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible."
Following this logic, a dead Mint Super Mario Bros. would be the analogy here. This is like saying "Everyone had Mario, everyone remembers it, condition is a big factor and MINT ones will reach absurd levels". That comic book analogy says nothing to the rares of the hobby.
I think all of the classics will steadily appreciate in value as long as Nintendo keeps making sequels down the road to appeal to the next generation of gamers.
Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
I don't know about this whole Nintendo "going under" thing. Atari, if I remember correctly, DID go under and someone bought the name. I'm pretty sure they went under, too, and someone ELSE bought the name. Atari doesn't exist, really, as much more then a brand now. And there are still adamant Atari 2600 collectors out there. If the same thing befell Nintendo, the brand would still be there, and people would remember the NES.
Atari's basically been dead for 20 years... and the prices have fallen not increased in the last five years. So... its as good an example as we can get IMO
Yes and no.
What you have to understand about Atari collecting is that in the early early years it really didn't have an internet backing. Sure some guys traded on the google forums but you didn;t have ebay and when eBay did pop up you didn't have the volume you do now. So the volume to go around was small and prices reflected this. Games thought to be R9s and even R10s are really only R7s and those people looking to grab them did. Some new guys came in but just about as many old collectors dropped out.
There are other differences NO ONE has a complete NTSC 2600 collection and don't even think about Atari 2600 PAL set. No one even has a complete NTSC cart only collection. The number of games rarer than Stadium Events that Atari 2600 has might boggle your mind. Another difference is while Atari was a powerhouse in its day it didn't have any 1st party characters that people really care about in the 3d world of todays gaming. The graphics were blockish and the characters weren't those you would identify with well so they often pushed the idea or theme of the game not the character. ALL of the rare games are titles no one outside of hardcore gaming will know. So instead of a bunch of Action Comics #1 with the first appearance of Superman you have a bunch of games like Gasoline Alley #3.
Still while many prices dropped but some did not. There is much to learn from watching the other hobbies as paterns do repeat.
Originally posted by: buyatari2 Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Originally posted by: buyatari2 Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Ehh I disagree (says the guy with the SE avatar ). Lots of people have completionist tendencies... ie want one of each released. In comics and similar hobbies that's truly impossible, far too many have been made. But with NES its a small set (less than 800), very attainable. Makes it much more attractive to try and put together a set.
If I compare the market now from the market seven years ago when I started, the stuff that's gone up the most are the popular titles and the stuff that's truly scarce even as CIBs let alone as sealed. The stuff that is neither hasn't moved much. I look for that to continue.
Originally posted by: buyatari2 Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2,
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Ehh I disagree (says the guy with the SE avatar ). Lots of people have completionist tendencies... ie want one of each released. In comics and similar hobbies that's truly impossible, far too many have been made. But with NES its a small set (less than 800), very attainable. Makes it much more attractive to try and put together a set.
If I compare the market now from the market seven years ago when I started, the stuff that's gone up the most are the popular titles and the stuff that's truly scarce even as CIBs let alone as sealed. The stuff that is neither hasn't moved much. I look for that to continue.
Well let's be realistic here, "lots of people" is quite a relative statement. Sure there's 2000-3000 people on this site, but thats a mere fraction of a percentage of the milllions upon millions who played the NES. Of these thousands of collectors, an even smaller percentage are "completionist". Of these "completionist", theres also quite a few who have accepted the fact that Myriad and SE will not be part of their set. So your "lots of people" statement isn't exactly accurate.
But believe me I hear your side of the argument loud and clear. It would only take maybe 3-5 more completionist mentalities to drive up the prices on the ultra rares like SE. However, I think you are falsely assuming that NES collecting is a lifelong journey. For me it has been a passing fad that I've already grown bored of, and many people can echo this statement. There's a LOT of turnover in this hobby, look at Castlevania4Ever's sell-off, JaredK is now leaving, Mario's Left Nut was replaced by Mario's Right Nut, and not to mention all of the people who came and went before me.
While we are always 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices of rares shoot up, we are also 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices fall. There's a second SE cart on eBay right now in the past 2 weeks. We all know that if 3 to 5 more showed up in the next month or two, the price of an SE cart would go down short-term.
Either way I think the ride will be very interesting and entertaining, but please remember there's two sides to every coin...
It's hard to say for sure what the future holds for retro game collecting, but as long as people want to recreate a part of their childhood or hold a tangible piece of history retro collecting will be popular in one way or another.
I think we can all agree that this is a hobby and like all hobbies it is meant for fun. None of you can seriously tell me you never started collecting something as a kid not knowing they would be worthless next summer. I.e Pog's, yugioh cards, crazy bones ect ect. These are 3 examples from my childhood not to sure about fads before me.
my whole take on the subject is.The number of diehard collectors is very small. Im not knocking anyone so dont take it that way. since NA ive seen plenty of members once joining buying up stuff at very hefty prices, then turning around a few years later selling everything to a new on fire collector for even more money. My guess would be several of these people spent way to much money sat back and looked at the games on the shelf and thought what the hell was i thinking. then say im burnout and sell off everything. then the next on fire guy steps in. well one day there isnt going to be the next on fire guy willing to pay thousands of dollars for a game. since NA started there is only a handful of people that still have there collections and will probally hold on to them.I think there will always be a few people that will want to collect video games but i belive within 5 years the majority of people in or getting into the hobby will shrink drastically. Its been said by quite a few people prior to letting everything go. well ill never be able to afford this cart so im just going to sell my whole collection because i cant have that one cart. one day it will come to just about all new people being completly turned off to collecting due to the insane prices people are paying. its pretty rosie now but it isnt going to last forever
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Ehh I disagree (says the guy with the SE avatar ). Lots of people have completionist tendencies... ie want one of each released. In comics and similar hobbies that's truly impossible, far too many have been made. But with NES its a small set (less than 800), very attainable. Makes it much more attractive to try and put together a set.
If I compare the market now from the market seven years ago when I started, the stuff that's gone up the most are the popular titles and the stuff that's truly scarce even as CIBs let alone as sealed. The stuff that is neither hasn't moved much. I look for that to continue.
Well let's be realistic here, "lots of people" is quite a relative statement. Sure there's 2000-3000 people on this site, but thats a mere fraction of a percentage of the milllions upon millions who played the NES. Of these thousands of collectors, an even smaller percentage are "completionist". Of these "completionist", theres also quite a few who have accepted the fact that Myriad and SE will not be part of their set. So your "lots of people" statement isn't exactly accurate.
But believe me I hear your side of the argument loud and clear. It would only take maybe 3-5 more completionist mentalities to drive up the prices on the ultra rares like SE. However, I think you are falsely assuming that NES collecting is a lifelong journey. For me it has been a passing fad that I've already grown bored of, and many people can echo this statement. There's a LOT of turnover in this hobby, look at Castlevania4Ever's sell-off, JaredK is now leaving, Mario's Left Nut was replaced by Mario's Right Nut, and not to mention all of the people who came and went before me.
While we are always 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices of rares shoot up, we are also 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices fall. There's a second SE cart on eBay right now in the past 2 weeks. We all know that if 3 to 5 more showed up in the next month or two, the price of an SE cart would go down short-term.
Either way I think the ride will be very interesting and entertaining, but please remember there's two sides to every coin...
I think we can all agree that this is a hobby and like all hobbies it is meant for fun. None of you can seriously tell me you never started collecting something as a kid not knowing they would be worthless next summer. I.e Pog's, yugioh cards, crazy bones ect ect. These are 3 examples from my childhood not to sure about fads before me.
is that a hungarian last name I see? If I ever sell my SE I might have to give you first dibs. I'm half hungarian and the previous owner was too.
Except the previous owner sold it to go chase a girl halfway across the world. I don't think my wife would like it if I followed suit
I completely agree with Jonas' sentiment that given the relatively small number of truly hardcore NES collectors, we are just as likely to see prices go through the floor as we are to see them go through the roof.
Some of you guys need to grasp the stock market truth that past performance does not guarantee (or in any way predict) future performance.
Comments
you read my mind
that is the sexiest worst sealed copy ive ever seen!
LOL, well put
Maybe this thread has been discussed but, here goes....
No one wants to see their passion fall by the wayside or their prized collection plummet in value. However, history has shown many of the collecting "fads" that were mainstream seem to dwindle down to just a few. With it many of the saught after items seemed to fall in value. Just look at baseball cards, toys, comics. Not to mention a few others in the recent past like POGS, Pokeymon cards, and Beanie Babies.
I remember not too long ago when the comic rage hit. The market was flooded with collectors editions and new spin offs to make as many first editions as possible. Now today we see the value of said comics are less than half of their cover price. Don't get me wrong I'm not putting Superman vol.1 in the same class by no means. But, I'm sure even the value of that single issue has fallen some. If only for the sheer drop in numbers of people looking for it.
It makes me wonder if once the fad wears off if our passion might suffer the same fate. And, yes I am a new comer to retro games but the more I'm around it the more I love it!!
Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I'm not sure you can compare the retro gaming market with the fall of comic books. A lot of what plagued the comic book market was trade paperbacks. For those who don't know these are collections of several old, and new, comics in a series that are reproduced by the comic book company as a single volume (or sometimes many volumes). This new product deflated the value of the originals because people could now get there hands on highly sought after comics that were included in the trade paperback.
Maybe this thread has been discussed but, here goes....
No one wants to see their passion fall by the wayside or their prized collection plummet in value. However, history has shown many of the collecting "fads" that were mainstream seem to dwindle down to just a few. With it many of the saught after items seemed to fall in value. Just look at baseball cards, toys, comics. Not to mention a few others in the recent past like POGS, Pokeymon cards, and Beanie Babies.
I remember not too long ago when the comic rage hit. The market was flooded with collectors editions and new spin offs to make as many first editions as possible. Now today we see the value of said comics are less than half of their cover price. Don't get me wrong I'm not putting Superman vol.1 in the same class by no means. But, I'm sure even the value of that single issue has fallen some. If only for the sheer drop in numbers of people looking for it.
It makes me wonder if once the fad wears off if our passion might suffer the same fate. And, yes I am a new comer to retro games but the more I'm around it the more I love it!!
Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I'm not sure you can compare the retro gaming market with the fall of comic books. A lot of what plagued the comic book market was trade paperbacks. For those who don't know these are collections of several old, and new, comics in a series that are reproduced by the comic book company as a single volume (or sometimes many volumes). This new product deflated the value of the originals because people could now get there hands on highly sought after comics that were included in the trade paperback.
Worse. It was like people paying $10 for Sega games !
I think more companies may try to get in the console game due to all of the huge demand already discussed. You might see an "iConsole" or maybe something from Google to compete with Microsoft, who even knows?
Just food for thought.
While we're discussing hypotheticals, I'd like to throw another one out: What if a console company goes out of business? In an economy like this with such big corporations tanking, I don't think it is such a far-fetched idea. Still, I'd say it's highly unlikely that would ever happen to Nintendo, but at at age 10 (in the prime of Genesis) I would have never believed Sega would stop making consoles either.
I think more companies may try to get in the console game due to all of the huge demand already discussed. You might see an "iConsole" or maybe something from Google to compete with Microsoft, who even knows?
Just food for thought.
Even if Nintendo died the characters would be around. Mario is not going anywhere.
The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, even Atari had higher production I would think. (This is assuming you incorporate longevity of both products.) The other more important reason is that its really easy to get into hockey cards and comic books very cheaply. Usually your Dad/Uncle/Brother will give you like 5 to start off with and off you go. To enter the Video game market today you generally need to wait for a birthday or X-mas as a child as your shelling out at least $350 right off the bat. The thing is people being born will have no reason to buy retro games until they play their own first. Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games. If you are serious about collecting comics or hockey cards and you want to get the first ones you actually have to get them. Now the same could be argued about video games, however there is ALWAYS, always an out for a video game collector which is download a ROM it may not be the same nostalgic feeling but for the majority of gamers (I would guess in the %80+ range) its enough to tide them over. That being said new gamers in the market hold no nostalgic ties to any game. However this is only comparing video games to comic books and sports cards let move on to my main point.
Unfortunately retro gaming moves more and more away from the current gaming market. Games are getting much more complex, much more graphic intensive and are almost always online because of this older games do not appeal to the masses. The majority of gamers today like either easy games where everything is just handed to them like a (sandbox type game) or are so caught up in competition that they insist of screaming like Yahoo's into their mic's. Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition. Our video games are hard with no competition. It takes a very special person to find them interesting. Usually someone would have to see one of your collections to even consider playing old Video Games/Downloading ROMS let alone buying them? Am I right? How often to people rummage through your room and say "Oh I have this game!" not had but "have". Further more have you ever brought in a child who has never played a NES/Snes and have them say I prefer these games to my Wii/Xbox/PS3? Chances are you have answered No to all of these questions.
I do not think that the video game market will die. Ever. However I do not see retro video games being worth hundreds of thousands anytime soon and when they finally do it wont be the stadium events that will be worth anything. It will be the Mario's and Zelda's the games that started it all and they will be antiques. Maybe in another 100 years if something happens to destroy 3/4 of the current Nes games and population increases another 1.5 billion people you can see that happening. For now though I think it is highly unlikely that any licensed NES game will push past 50K.
Just my $.02
I dont think anyone is addressing the fact that no new people will be entering our market. Or at least very few people.
The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, even Atari had higher production I would think. (This is assuming you incorporate longevity of both products.) The other more important reason is that its really easy to get into hockey cards and comic books very cheaply. Usually your Dad/Uncle/Brother will give you like 5 to start off with and off you go. To enter the Video game market today you generally need to wait for a birthday or X-mas as a child as your shelling out at least $350 right off the bat. The thing is people being born will have no reason to buy retro games until they play their own first. Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games. If you are serious about collecting comics or hockey cards and you want to get the first ones you actually have to get them. Now the same could be argued about video games, however there is ALWAYS, always an out for a video game collector which is download a ROM it may not be the same nostalgic feeling but for the majority of gamers (I would guess in the %80+ range) its enough to tide them over. That being said new gamers in the market hold no nostalgic ties to any game. However this is only comparing video games to comic books and sports cards let move on to my main point.
Unfortunately retro gaming moves more and more away from the current gaming market. Games are getting much more complex, much more graphic intensive and are almost always online because of this older games do not appeal to the masses. The majority of gamers today like either easy games where everything is just handed to them like a (sandbox type game) or are so caught up in competition that they insist of screaming like Yahoo's into their mic's. Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition. Our video games are hard with no competition. It takes a very special person to find them interesting. Usually someone would have to see one of your collections to even consider playing old Video Games/Downloading ROMS let alone buying them? Am I right? How often to people rummage through your room and say "Oh I have this game!" not had but "have". Further more have you ever brought in a child who has never played a NES/Snes and have them say I prefer these games to my Wii/Xbox/PS3? Chances are you have answered No to all of these questions.
I do not think that the video game market will die. Ever. However I do not see retro video games being worth hundreds of thousands anytime soon and when they finally do it wont be the stadium events that will be worth anything. It will be the Mario's and Zelda's the games that started it all and they will be antiques. Maybe in another 100 years if something happens to destroy 3/4 of the current Nes games and population increases another 1.5 billion people you can see that happening. For now though I think it is highly unlikely that any licensed NES game will push past 50K.
Just my $.02
If you paid 2c for that post you got ripped off
Briefly:
"The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, "
--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible.
"Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games".
--Sigh. Counterfeits and more importantly REPRINTS of cards and comics are all over the place. If all you want to do is enjoy reading Superman 1 I can get you a readable copy for $5. But if you want the genuine article... $10,000 to start, for a beat up piece of crap copy.
"Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition"
--It doesn't matter what hardcore gamers like. It matters whether people who are hardcore COLLECTORS are drawn to this stuff.
--------
This is the way I look at it. There is NO money in the collector pool right now. I'm halfway considered a big wheel and I'm just a dude paying down my mortgage, making a pretty decent living but far from rich. In comics (which I've had an interest in for over 20 years) I am an absolute peon, a nobody. People have single comics better than my entire collection. Frankly, any hobby where I'm considered to have a lot of money, and where braveheart = moneybags is a joke financially. (All due respect to erik, just sayin'). Our hobby is dirt poor right now. So.... you ever get a few people with ACTUAL money collecting this stuff then prices for the best stuff will be NUTS compared to what you are used to. That's it, plain and simple. Now you can debate whether or not those big money guys will ever come into the hobby but five guys like that would turn this hobby upside down.
The fact is the collector pool is a buncha fucking broke teenagers and the odd 30 year old guy with a half decent salary (the "money"). That is nickels and dimes and peanuts.
I dont think anyone is addressing the fact that no new people will be entering our market. Or at least very few people.
The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, even Atari had higher production I would think. (This is assuming you incorporate longevity of both products.) The other more important reason is that its really easy to get into hockey cards and comic books very cheaply. Usually your Dad/Uncle/Brother will give you like 5 to start off with and off you go. To enter the Video game market today you generally need to wait for a birthday or X-mas as a child as your shelling out at least $350 right off the bat. The thing is people being born will have no reason to buy retro games until they play their own first. Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games. If you are serious about collecting comics or hockey cards and you want to get the first ones you actually have to get them. Now the same could be argued about video games, however there is ALWAYS, always an out for a video game collector which is download a ROM it may not be the same nostalgic feeling but for the majority of gamers (I would guess in the %80+ range) its enough to tide them over. That being said new gamers in the market hold no nostalgic ties to any game. However this is only comparing video games to comic books and sports cards let move on to my main point.
Unfortunately retro gaming moves more and more away from the current gaming market. Games are getting much more complex, much more graphic intensive and are almost always online because of this older games do not appeal to the masses. The majority of gamers today like either easy games where everything is just handed to them like a (sandbox type game) or are so caught up in competition that they insist of screaming like Yahoo's into their mic's. Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition. Our video games are hard with no competition. It takes a very special person to find them interesting. Usually someone would have to see one of your collections to even consider playing old Video Games/Downloading ROMS let alone buying them? Am I right? How often to people rummage through your room and say "Oh I have this game!" not had but "have". Further more have you ever brought in a child who has never played a NES/Snes and have them say I prefer these games to my Wii/Xbox/PS3? Chances are you have answered No to all of these questions.
I do not think that the video game market will die. Ever. However I do not see retro video games being worth hundreds of thousands anytime soon and when they finally do it wont be the stadium events that will be worth anything. It will be the Mario's and Zelda's the games that started it all and they will be antiques. Maybe in another 100 years if something happens to destroy 3/4 of the current Nes games and population increases another 1.5 billion people you can see that happening. For now though I think it is highly unlikely that any licensed NES game will push past 50K.
Just my $.02
If you paid 2c for that post you got ripped off
Briefly:
"The reasons comic books and hockey cards are so popular and the old ones are worth more are really for 2 reasons. One because at first they were not produced nearly on the same level as video games, "
--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible.
"Another difference is you can not obtain a "fake" card or a "copied" comic. Where as you can get ROM's for video games".
--Sigh. Counterfeits and more importantly REPRINTS of cards and comics are all over the place. If all you want to do is enjoy reading Superman 1 I can get you a readable copy for $5. But if you want the genuine article... $10,000 to start, for a beat up piece of crap copy.
"Basically gamers today either want games very easy or hard but with competition"
--It doesn't matter what hardcore gamers like. It matters whether people who are hardcore COLLECTORS are drawn to this stuff.
--------
This is the way I look at it. There is NO money in the collector pool right now. I'm halfway considered a big wheel and I'm just a dude paying down my mortgage, making a pretty decent living but far from rich. In comics (which I've had an interest in for over 20 years) I am an absolute peon, a nobody. People have single comics better than my entire collection. Frankly, any hobby where I'm considered to have a lot of money, and where braveheart = moneybags is a joke financially. (All due respect to erik, just sayin'). Our hobby is dirt poor right now. So.... you ever get a few people with ACTUAL money collecting this stuff then prices for the best stuff will be NUTS compared to what you are used to. That's it, plain and simple. Now you can debate whether or not those big money guys will ever come into the hobby but five guys like that would turn this hobby upside down.
The fact is the collector pool is a buncha fucking broke teenagers and the odd 30 year old guy with a half decent salary (the "money"). That is nickels and dimes and peanuts.
"--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge
#1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population
was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100
but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000.
Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the
country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You
can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with
money will want the best copy possible."
The point I was attempting to make was that sports cards are much more destructible. They last no where near as long as even the most early video games will.
"--Sigh. Counterfeits and more importantly REPRINTS of cards and comics
are all over the place. If all you want to do is enjoy reading
Superman 1 I can get you a readable copy for $5. But if you want the
genuine article... $10,000 to start, for a beat up piece of crap copy."
This I can accept fair enough.
"--It doesn't matter what hardcore gamers like. It matters whether people who are hardcore COLLECTORS are drawn to this stuff."
You misunderstand the problem is not the hard core gamer. Its the run of the mill gamer who owns a wii and only a wii who just plays rockband, guitar hero, wii music ect ect. The point I was trying to make is that you cant have hard core collectors with out hardcore gamers who also like to look to the past at where things started. Yes there are hard core collectors now...but for how long? 10 more years? 50? 100? It doesnt matter because eventually the number of people who care about classics will dwindle and the ones that do care will be able to download them for a few bucks on what ever console they own.
You will always have people who collect. Thats simple. However the number of people who do will slowly slip away as time passes. How many people do you know who collect Radio's? Radio's were just as big if not bigger then Video game's and yet there are only a handful of people who collect them now. I can understand the stance you take as you probobly have more sealed games then anyone on the website however dont feel threatened by what I say. Im not saying they are worthless or are even going to become worthless anytime soon. All I am saying is that they will not appreciate forever.
I can understand the stance you take as you probobly have more sealed games then anyone on the website however dont feel threatened by what I say. Im not saying they are worthless or are even going to become worthless anytime soon. All I am saying is that they will not appreciate forever.
I'm not being defensive I am just stating my opinion. YES I do like the "chances" of them continuing to appreciate but I fully understand that they may not, and I don't care. I haven't sold them while they've appreciated, won't sell if they appreciate more, and won't sell if they depreciate either. I have them because I like them.
You will always have people who collect. Thats simple. However the number of people who do will slowly slip away as time passes. How many people do you know who collect Radio's? Radio's were just as big if not bigger then Video game's and yet there are only a handful of people who collect them now.
This argument I can understand and while I don't agree with it I definitely agree that its one possible outcome; yes you may proven to be right. But nobody really knows for sure. I would honestly have thought comics collecting would have been dead by now; the "big books" are 70 years old now. Seventy! Nobody who was around then collects them now. But, because they kept putting out new batmans, interest has always stayed there on the #1 and the other vintage books.
Really its that simple with nintendo. If they are still putting out new marios and zeldas and whatever else, the interest will always be there. If the company goes under, collecting old nintendo games as a hobby goes under.
The reason the Radio was so popular was due to what was being broadcast on it, it was something so new and great having a stranger talk in your room miles away. The only reason to collect Radios now is purely cosmetical as you can never hear those shows again.
Video games however, you have a cosmetic factor alongside an interactive audio/visual experience everytime!
I don't know about this whole Nintendo "going under" thing. Atari, if I remember correctly, DID go under and someone bought the name. I'm pretty sure they went under, too, and someone ELSE bought the name. Atari doesn't exist, really, as much more then a brand now. And there are still adamant Atari 2600 collectors out there. If the same thing befell Nintendo, the brand would still be there, and people would remember the NES.
Atari's basically been dead for 20 years... and the prices have fallen not increased in the last five years. So... its as good an example as we can get IMO
Look at braveheart, he collects NES and Game Gear... game gear appeals to him because he grew up on it. Look at SuperNESMan, he's only 14 but he beat Super Mario Bros. when he was 3. He grew up on NES thanks to his dad even if he wasn't around for it's beginning.
Now look at today's kids who grow up on Wii and play NES games through the virtual console. Will they be collectors of the future? Sure there could be exceptions to the rule, but nostalgia will not be a factor here. They might want to grab a hard copy of Mario or Zelda just to get the original (as with the comic book example), but do you think they'll want a Stadium Events right off the bat?
Quote = Bronty:
"--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible."
Following this logic, a dead Mint Super Mario Bros. would be the analogy here. This is like saying "Everyone had Mario, everyone remembers it, condition is a big factor and MINT ones will reach absurd levels". That comic book analogy says nothing to the rares of the hobby.
I think all of the classics will steadily appreciate in value as long as Nintendo keeps making sequels down the road to appeal to the next generation of gamers.
I think the Nostalgia point is quite the accurate one as it is obviously the driving force behind this hobby. Everyone is drawn to the hobby by remembering their childhood games, and then some people take the extra step and go for them all, or expand to other systems they missed.
Look at braveheart, he collects NES and Game Gear... game gear appeals to him because he grew up on it. Look at SuperNESMan, he's only 14 but he beat Super Mario Bros. when he was 3. He grew up on NES thanks to his dad even if he wasn't around for it's beginning.
Now look at today's kids who grow up on Wii and play NES games through the virtual console. Will they be collectors of the future? Sure there could be exceptions to the rule, but nostalgia will not be a factor here. They might want to grab a hard copy of Mario or Zelda just to get the original (as with the comic book example), but do you think they'll want a Stadium Events right off the bat?
Quote = Bronty:
"--that's not it at all. They were produced in huge #s. Uncle Scrooge #1 sold 2 or 3 million copies. In freaking 1950 when the population was half what it is now. Today you can buy a decent used one for $100 but you can't find a mint one and when you do, they are $25,000. Twenty five thousand. For something practically every kid in the country had a copy of. You don't need it to actually BE rare. You can have it be artificially rare through condition because people with money will want the best copy possible."
Following this logic, a dead Mint Super Mario Bros. would be the analogy here. This is like saying "Everyone had Mario, everyone remembers it, condition is a big factor and MINT ones will reach absurd levels". That comic book analogy says nothing to the rares of the hobby.
I think all of the classics will steadily appreciate in value as long as Nintendo keeps making sequels down the road to appeal to the next generation of gamers.
Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
I don't know about this whole Nintendo "going under" thing. Atari, if I remember correctly, DID go under and someone bought the name. I'm pretty sure they went under, too, and someone ELSE bought the name. Atari doesn't exist, really, as much more then a brand now. And there are still adamant Atari 2600 collectors out there. If the same thing befell Nintendo, the brand would still be there, and people would remember the NES.
Atari's basically been dead for 20 years... and the prices have fallen not increased in the last five years. So... its as good an example as we can get IMO
Yes and no.
What you have to understand about Atari collecting is that in the early early years it really didn't have an internet backing. Sure some guys traded on the google forums but you didn;t have ebay and when eBay did pop up you didn't have the volume you do now. So the volume to go around was small and prices reflected this. Games thought to be R9s and even R10s are really only R7s and those people looking to grab them did. Some new guys came in but just about as many old collectors dropped out.
There are other differences NO ONE has a complete NTSC 2600 collection and don't even think about Atari 2600 PAL set. No one even has a complete NTSC cart only collection. The number of games rarer than Stadium Events that Atari 2600 has might boggle your mind. Another difference is while Atari was a powerhouse in its day it didn't have any 1st party characters that people really care about in the 3d world of todays gaming. The graphics were blockish and the characters weren't those you would identify with well so they often pushed the idea or theme of the game not the character. ALL of the rare games are titles no one outside of hardcore gaming will know. So instead of a bunch of Action Comics #1 with the first appearance of Superman you have a bunch of games like Gasoline Alley #3.
Still while many prices dropped but some did not. There is much to learn from watching the other hobbies as paterns do repeat.
Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Ehh I disagree (says the guy with the SE avatar
If I compare the market now from the market seven years ago when I started, the stuff that's gone up the most are the popular titles and the stuff that's truly scarce even as CIBs let alone as sealed. The stuff that is neither hasn't moved much. I look for that to continue.
Sure kids growing up today might want the 1st Mario games IF they become collectors.
Kids growing up in the 60's grew up with Micky Mantle. They later collected all his cards and when they were done found some Babe Ruth ones as well.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic about Bronty's post but yes that is exactly what will happen. Mint Super Mario Bros will be worth more than most other NES games.
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2,
Have you ever played f2? Its a damn fun game!
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Ehh I disagree (says the guy with the SE avatar
). Lots of people have completionist tendencies... ie want one of each released. In comics and similar hobbies that's truly impossible, far too many have been made. But with NES its a small set (less than 800), very attainable. Makes it much more attractive to try and put together a set.
If I compare the market now from the market seven years ago when I started, the stuff that's gone up the most are the popular titles and the stuff that's truly scarce even as CIBs let alone as sealed. The stuff that is neither hasn't moved much. I look for that to continue.
Well let's be realistic here, "lots of people" is quite a relative statement. Sure there's 2000-3000 people on this site, but thats a mere fraction of a percentage of the milllions upon millions who played the NES. Of these thousands of collectors, an even smaller percentage are "completionist". Of these "completionist", theres also quite a few who have accepted the fact that Myriad and SE will not be part of their set. So your "lots of people" statement isn't exactly accurate.
But believe me I hear your side of the argument loud and clear. It would only take maybe 3-5 more completionist mentalities to drive up the prices on the ultra rares like SE. However, I think you are falsely assuming that NES collecting is a lifelong journey. For me it has been a passing fad that I've already grown bored of, and many people can echo this statement. There's a LOT of turnover in this hobby, look at Castlevania4Ever's sell-off, JaredK is now leaving, Mario's Left Nut was replaced by Mario's Right Nut, and not to mention all of the people who came and went before me.
While we are always 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices of rares shoot up, we are also 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices fall. There's a second SE cart on eBay right now in the past 2 weeks. We all know that if 3 to 5 more showed up in the next month or two, the price of an SE cart would go down short-term.
Either way I think the ride will be very interesting and entertaining, but please remember there's two sides to every coin...
No, I was being dead serious. This simply solidifies my point... while the MINT Super Mario Bros. games might increase through the roof eventually (*Gasp* sealed even bigger), this says nothing about Stadium Events. Even while SE and NWC are of comparable rarities, NWC has lots of upward potential while SE is nothing more than a glorified variant. I see plenty of demand for the classics, or even pieces of Nintendo history like a NWC cart, but games who's price is reflected by their rarity alone and not tied to their fun factor (SE, F2, etc.) are very prone to loosing value on the long run.
Once again all speculation, but you will never see me possessing a SE cart. No one knows what will happen, but there's enough doubt in my mind to deter me from ever owning one.
Ehh I disagree (says the guy with the SE avatar
). Lots of people have completionist tendencies... ie want one of each released. In comics and similar hobbies that's truly impossible, far too many have been made. But with NES its a small set (less than 800), very attainable. Makes it much more attractive to try and put together a set.
If I compare the market now from the market seven years ago when I started, the stuff that's gone up the most are the popular titles and the stuff that's truly scarce even as CIBs let alone as sealed. The stuff that is neither hasn't moved much. I look for that to continue.
Well let's be realistic here, "lots of people" is quite a relative statement. Sure there's 2000-3000 people on this site, but thats a mere fraction of a percentage of the milllions upon millions who played the NES. Of these thousands of collectors, an even smaller percentage are "completionist". Of these "completionist", theres also quite a few who have accepted the fact that Myriad and SE will not be part of their set. So your "lots of people" statement isn't exactly accurate.
But believe me I hear your side of the argument loud and clear. It would only take maybe 3-5 more completionist mentalities to drive up the prices on the ultra rares like SE. However, I think you are falsely assuming that NES collecting is a lifelong journey. For me it has been a passing fad that I've already grown bored of, and many people can echo this statement. There's a LOT of turnover in this hobby, look at Castlevania4Ever's sell-off, JaredK is now leaving, Mario's Left Nut was replaced by Mario's Right Nut, and not to mention all of the people who came and went before me.
While we are always 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices of rares shoot up, we are also 3-5 guys away from seeing the prices fall. There's a second SE cart on eBay right now in the past 2 weeks. We all know that if 3 to 5 more showed up in the next month or two, the price of an SE cart would go down short-term.
Either way I think the ride will be very interesting and entertaining, but please remember there's two sides to every coin...
jone that was beautiful, very well written.
I think we can all agree that this is a hobby and like all hobbies it is meant for fun. None of you can seriously tell me you never started collecting something as a kid not knowing they would be worthless next summer. I.e Pog's, yugioh cards, crazy bones ect ect. These are 3 examples from my childhood not to sure about fads before me.
is that a hungarian last name I see? If I ever sell my SE I might have to give you first dibs. I'm half hungarian and the previous owner was too.
Except the previous owner sold it to go chase a girl halfway across the world. I don't think my wife would like it if I followed suit
Some of you guys need to grasp the stock market truth that past performance does not guarantee (or in any way predict) future performance.