Religious indoctrination
At the risk of starting another 20 page religion debate, I'll post this topic here, seeing as how I've posted it practically everywhere else...
What are your thoughts on parents raising their children in their respective religion?
Some consider it child abuse, some consider it unforgivable, some don't see a problem with it, provided the children are given other religions to look at, as well as told that there are also the options of agnosticism, atheism, and deism. Even still, some consider it a form of brainwashing, and some people are just apathetic to it in general.
So, what are your thoughts on religious indoctrination?
Myself, I was raised in a strongly devout Christian family, so you could say that I was indoctrinated. I didn't question Christianity until around the age of 16, at which point I sort of became an agnostic Christian, followed by an atheist in August 2008.
But enough of that. After all, this topic isn't about why you left your childhood faith (assuming that you even did), but rather, it is about your opinion on religious indoctrination.
I see no problem with it myself, even if no other options are presented to the children in question. Eventually, they're going to think for themselves, independent of their parent's influence, and make the decision regarding religion for themselves.
Some consider it child abuse, some consider it unforgivable, some don't see a problem with it, provided the children are given other religions to look at, as well as told that there are also the options of agnosticism, atheism, and deism. Even still, some consider it a form of brainwashing, and some people are just apathetic to it in general.
So, what are your thoughts on religious indoctrination?
Myself, I was raised in a strongly devout Christian family, so you could say that I was indoctrinated. I didn't question Christianity until around the age of 16, at which point I sort of became an agnostic Christian, followed by an atheist in August 2008.
But enough of that. After all, this topic isn't about why you left your childhood faith (assuming that you even did), but rather, it is about your opinion on religious indoctrination.
I see no problem with it myself, even if no other options are presented to the children in question. Eventually, they're going to think for themselves, independent of their parent's influence, and make the decision regarding religion for themselves.
Comments
I was raised Mormon (or Latter-Day Saint if you will
So, when my parents forced me (mostly my dad only) to go to hebrew school, it was hell. It sucked, they didn't teach anything, and I did arts and crafts from grades 1-7. Now I adapted a belief that was brought to me by my mom, and it makes the most sense. I guess that's the best thing to do: present several ideas and beliefs and just let the kid choose whichever sounds best to him. Indoctrine is what's leading to the shit in the world right now. If some people just knew what the hell they were becoming radicals about, then maybe they'd have some justification to the things they did.
You parents do whatever you want, I really don't care, but make sure that your child has say in it when he is able to understand the concepts. I know this may not be until he's about 14, 15, 16, but still...they will just grow up to become another "christian" boy who celebrates christmas and easter only and gives presents to their kids, and when you ask them to name 5 apostles they say Jesus and Mary.
There is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. Everyone has to choose for themselves what they do or don't believe, no one has all the answers. "God" cannot, and should not be proven. It is all based on a faith that is inherently not seen, thus it is faith. I don't think religion is wrong, because the basic ideals are what humans should strive for anyways, ie dont steal, murder, etc, rather treat those like you want to be treated. The problem with religion, is the hypocrosy. People want to prove their worth by showing how great of a "christian" they are, yet they tend to be the ones who get caught up in the scandals with prostitution, stealing, etc. I grew up in church, but never felt a real connection with a higher power, or what I call "God" until I was 30. Spirituality is a very personal thing, many diferent religions go about teaching the differently, but in the end, come to most of the same conclusions. Don't screw other people over, Be a good person. I don't think that doing these things in a certain way are the only way, but in general they are the way to go. No one knows what comes after this life, and no one ever will until it is done, but we should all be good to our fellow man.
edited for drunken spelling
It's a parent's responsibility to teach give their children a solid moral foundation. To a lot of people that involves religion.
I would have a problem with it, if this kind of indoctrination went on outside of a parent's control, but it doesn't. There are not compulsory programs that I know of that result in actual religious indoctrination (having a "moment of silence" at school does not do this at all).
It's on TV from time to time. Was on this past weekend as a matter of fact. Any of you who think you've been indoctrinated on the east or west coasts, and are bitter about it...watch this before getting too angry at your folks. Jesus Camp will make them look very, very moderate.
I don't really have a problem with it. I'll be raising my kids (when I get to that point) the same way I was raised. Strong Christian here...
I am the same way. My religion is based on faith because I cannot prove it to someone, cannot see God, cannot audibly hear God, I just have to believe by faith that he is real. I have been through too much to think otherwise. I have always been in church growing up but just went through the motions because no one took the time to explain what it really meant. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that I became a Christian. I think a large problem with Christianity today is that some "Christians" try to force it down non-believers throats in a rude way. Our job is to share with them, but you have to be tactful. I know as school, there is always someone out there preaching his beliefs to the point that if you are not standing in the middle of the student center with a sign and yelling at people about their beliefs, then you cannot be a "Christian".
I also agree with the level of hypocrisy that is in Christianity. To me, Christianity is a way of life. We read the word, apply it to our lives and do what we are called to do. You do have some who go and do, say, live however they want to...so technicallly, that is not a Christian because there is no evidence of a change in their life. Then you do have the people who do get caught in scandals....I wish I could explain how that happens. Basically, I think people let their guard down and that is when they caught. The youth pastor at my own church was busted at a park for soliciting sex from an undercover cop who was the same sex. He was even married. (He was relieved of this job) We will never have an answer as to why that happens. A well known Christian singer came out and said he was gay last year. He knew what the bible said about it but still lived the lifestyle for years. How does that happen? Who knows.
I am not a person who forces my beliefs on a person. I just live how I am suppose to live and if they ask, I tell them. 2 of my best friends are atheist...actually they were groomsmen in my wedding. They are still people and you respect them for their choices.
I'm a Christian and I go to church as often as the doors are open. I don't go because I feel obligated to or because I feel that it's my ticket for salvation. I go because we celebrate my Savior. Also, I WANT people to meet the one I met. I didn't grow up in church. I was 19 when I met Jesus. I didn't have an "experience," I MET Jesus. As my new son gets older, I'm going to do all that I can to introduce my son to Him as well.
I can't imagine my life without Jesus! I truly believe it's only indoctrination when it's just rules and not a relationship!
It's only "indoctrination" when it's just about rules. Do this, don't do that. My "religion" (and I use the term loosely) is really my RELATIONSHIP with Christ. It doesn't boil down to rules, it boils down to a relationship and trust. I know that the things He wrote in His book are true and that He has my best interests in mind. It's not just the 10 commandments or he Golden Rule. He made us, and He truly knows what is best for us.
I'm a Christian and I go to church as often as the doors are open. I don't go because I feel obligated to or because I feel that it's my ticket for salvation. I go because we celebrate my Savior. Also, I WANT people to meet the one I met. I didn't grow up in church. I was 19 when I met Jesus. I didn't have an "experience," I MET Jesus. As my new son gets older, I'm going to do all that I can to introduce my son to Him as well.
I can't imagine my life without Jesus! I truly believe it's only indoctrination when it's just rules and not a relationship!
Totally agree and well said.
Does anybody else find it ironic/funny that this topic popped up shortly after ascension day?
Personally, I'm not introducing religion to my son, because to be completely honest, I'm not really able to (you know, I don't understand it myself). However, I haven't been keeping anything from him. He has gone to a church a couple of times with his cousins, and he had fun. Of course, he doesn't understand the whole scope of what it's all about, but when you're that young I don't think it really matters.
I'm doing what I can to raise him to make intelligent decisions and question things. Hopefully my wife and I do a good enough job so that when he gets older and starts wondering about that kind of thing, he will be able to form his own opinions on religion and either believe, or don't believe; it will be up to him, no force feeding here. To me, this is the best way, but I hold nothing against other people doing it any other way than my own.
It's only "indoctrination" when it's just about rules. Do this, don't do that. My "religion" (and I use the term loosely) is really my RELATIONSHIP with Christ. It doesn't boil down to rules, it boils down to a relationship and trust. I know that the things He wrote in His book are true and that He has my best interests in mind. It's not just the 10 commandments or he Golden Rule. He made us, and He truly knows what is best for us.
I'm a Christian and I go to church as often as the doors are open. I don't go because I feel obligated to or because I feel that it's my ticket for salvation. I go because we celebrate my Savior. Also, I WANT people to meet the one I met. I didn't grow up in church. I was 19 when I met Jesus. I didn't have an "experience," I MET Jesus. As my new son gets older, I'm going to do all that I can to introduce my son to Him as well.
I can't imagine my life without Jesus! I truly believe it's only indoctrination when it's just rules and not a relationship!
wow, talk about right on. pretty much what he said.
i was raised anti-religion and always thought religious people were idiots. i met some people in college. i took the time to look at the bible and pray for myself and it completely changed me and how i felt. it wasn't about rules and punishment/reward. it was about learning about who made me and what he wants from me in my everyday life. it's a personal connection. my works are a fruit of my faith, not something to earn something.
about raising kids, i will totally be raising mine into the church. i go to a house church and i've never met people so honest, happy and forgiving as the people in my church. i want the same for my family and for my children. and i want to be more like that myself every day.
I believe this is a terrible form of conditioning. The problem I have with religion is it causes people to waste the only life they get because they believe that if they are conservative they will have great rewards in the "after life". I understand there is no real way you can prove god via science and even if you could there would be no way to determine who's god is correct and who's form of worshiping said god is correct. I find organize religion to be just one big business. Some people need it in order to be decent human being's if thats the case go for it. However if you can be a nice person with out paying for it every week I think thats much better.
i planned on writing something here but i saw this and agreed 100%, but my parents said you can believe whatever you want and i think its best to just let your kids believe in anything they chose cause for my sister she needs religion otherwise she feels like shes gonna do bad stuff, but me and my brother no religion whatsoever and enjoying it
it wasn't about rules and punishment/reward. it was about learning about who made me and what he wants from me in my everyday life. it's a personal connection. my works are a fruit of my faith, not something to earn something.
...i've never met people so honest, happy and forgiving as the people in my church. i want the same for my family and for my children. and i want to be more like that myself every day.
I wholeheartedly agree! The people in my church aren't perfect, but they are some of the greatest men and women I know. More like a family than a "church."
Personally I think these type of threads only start bickering.
I actually thought it might, but it's remained very civil. Not to toot the horn of NA members, but the fact that it hasn't become a huge bicker-fest speaks to the type of people we have here. Hands down, this is one of the bext forum sites I've ever been on and I want to say thanks to everyone on here!
http://www.chick.com/READING/TRACTS/0046/0046_01.ASP
http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=57439
I have nothing against faith, but organized religion is a scam. There is no reason to have a religious leader. You can and should be able to think for yourself. As for christians.. everything is all messed up. Jesus taught that you meet with your neighbors and friends and speak of god. You are to live A life of poverty, and give up all your world possesions. Every Christian church I have ever seen, is trying to build the biggest steeple in the history of mankind. They are all shooting for mega centers with plasma TVs, and cafes. All the poor churches in the ghetto seem to be raking in the donations, the pastor driving around in a Jaguar, his hands lined with gold rings, while the church goers cant afford new clothes for their children.
I also find it a contradiction to claim to be a Christian, and to be a video game collector. Amassing consumer goods is hardly giving up your worldy possesions and living a life of poverty.
But I guess, as many have said you can belive whatever you want. You can re write the bible anyway you want to try to make yourself fit. You can go on celebrating christmas on a roman goddesses holiday. You can read Noahs arch to your kids, and tell them its a Christian story, not one that the Hebrews copied from much older religions, before the Hebrew god was a thought in anyones head. You can go on thinking Dinosuars never existed, or existed at the same time as humans, like in the Flintstones.. Yaba daba Dooo!
- end jackass rant (someone had to shake this place up. It was too nice in here, as someone commented)
If your just a Christian by faith though, and you dont take everything your pastor tells you as %100 unbreakable truth, I respect that. If you have personal faith, and feel some kinda of power in your life, thats cool. If you can have faith and still think for yourself at the same time, theres nothing wrong with that. It only get messed up when you act, and think, only because a book told you to. I just cant stand people, when you ask them a question like.. why do you think Hindus are wrong and you are right, they answer "The Bible told me so!"
my
parents were athiests. i went along believing them until i was around
19, when things started happening that could only be explained by the
"super natural". i didnt want to believe it, but i am now 100% sure
that there's something out there besides us and our beloved brains.
personally, im going to raise my children to keep an open mind, and to
never be too sure, one way or another.
Can we know these events that can only be explained super naturaly?
Proof of liars and Brain Washers:
http://www.chick.com/READING/TRACTS/0046/0046_01.ASP
http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=57439
I have nothing against faith, but organized religion is a scam. There is no reason to have a religious leader. You can and should be able to think for yourself. As for christians.. everything is all messed up. Jesus taught that you meet with your neighbors and friends and speak of god. You are to live A life of poverty, and give up all your world possesions. Every Christian church I have ever seen, is trying to build the biggest steeple in the history of mankind. They are all shooting for mega centers with plasma TVs, and cafes. All the poor churches in the ghetto seem to be raking in the donations, the pastor driving around in a Jaguar, his hands lined with gold rings, while the church goers cant afford new clothes for their children.
I also find it a contradiction to claim to be a Christian, and to be a video game collector. Amassing consumer goods is hardly giving up your worldy possesions and living a life of poverty.
But I guess, as many have said you can belive whatever you want. You can re write the bible anyway you want to try to make yourself fit. You can go on celebrating christmas on a roman goddesses holiday. You can read Noahs arch to your kids, and tell them its a Christian story, not one that the Hebrews copied from much older religions, before the Hebrew god was a thought in anyones head. You can go on thinking Dinosuars never existed, or existed at the same time as humans, like in the Flintstones.. Yaba daba Dooo!
- end jackass rant
Quoted so it can't be deleted.
Dragon, what was the point of this post? I've often been criticized in the past for some of my posts, but this post serves no purpose other than to disturb the religious fanatics and cause an uproar. I'm not religious, so I didn't post in the thread. Even LostEyeball had enough common sense on page one to politefully back out of the thread without speaking his mind. Sure you are entitled to your opinion, but if you are anti-religion then why the hell would you come into a religious thread in the first place?
It's like going to a MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) meeting and talking about how driving buzzed isn't a big deal as long as you aren't drunk. Bad idea.
That's quite the unnecessary and inflammatory rant. We've been over this many times in other threads, that "mega churches" and "prosperity gospel churches" are NOT the mainstream and certainly are not representative of MY relationship with God.
Ridiculing Christians due to your misunderstanding is uncalled for.
Quoted so it can't be deleted.
Dragon, what was the point of this post? I've often been criticized in the past for some of my posts, but this post serves no purpose other than to disturb the religious fanatics and cause an uproar. I'm not religious, so I didn't post in the thread. Even LostEyeball had enough common sense on page one to politefully back out of the thread without speaking his mind. Sure you are entitled to your opinion, but if you are anti-religion then why the hell would you come into a religious thread in the first place?
It's like going to a MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) meeting and talking about how driving buzzed isn't a big deal as long as you aren't drunk. Bad idea.
Reply:
I thought this thread was to give opinoins either way? Didnt know I had to check my Crucifix at the door.
And I was trying to be humorous.. dont know if it came off that way, but thats why I ended with "-end jackass rant"
Also by the authors thread starter.. this topic seems like it is leaning twords the anti religious more then the religious.
Generally, humor and a string of defamatory comments regarding somebody's religion are incompatible constructs.
As are christians and game collectors.