JRPGs with Visible Enemies on the Overworld
*Thinking of games with separate battle screens here, the kind usually found in random battle type games. Also looking for primarily 2D examples, since it has become increasingly prevalent in 3D games and 2D ones are harder to find.
I started playing Romancing Saga yesterday, and found it odd that the enemies could be seen and encountered on the overworld. Odd for Square at least. Not a huge fan of how they did it, but I enjoyed the concept in both Earthbound and Lufia II, each for different reasons. What other games used a similar system to these, or what were your thoughts in general about it?
And yes, Chrono Trigger had visible enemies, but the way that they were placed and encountered was slightly different. More fixed, and triggered on crossing a barrier. I am also not thinking of isolated enemies, areas, or bosses, but of games as a whole.
I started playing Romancing Saga yesterday, and found it odd that the enemies could be seen and encountered on the overworld. Odd for Square at least. Not a huge fan of how they did it, but I enjoyed the concept in both Earthbound and Lufia II, each for different reasons. What other games used a similar system to these, or what were your thoughts in general about it?
And yes, Chrono Trigger had visible enemies, but the way that they were placed and encountered was slightly different. More fixed, and triggered on crossing a barrier. I am also not thinking of isolated enemies, areas, or bosses, but of games as a whole.
Comments
Edit: NM. I see you covered that.
I think the key to making these successful is making encounters avoidable (adds an element of stealth to the game, ie: wait 'til they are facing away and rush past) BUT also makes that kind of move risky (ie: If the enemy does see you, it's likely they will get a surprise attack on you, so getting a surprise attack on them is usually preferable to sneaking past).
There should be a variety of faster and slower enemies, some that are not-so-easy to outrun, and some that dash in a straight line towards you when they spot you (so are easily dodge-able). Maybe there's even peaceful enemies that will only attack if you bother them.
This kind of system can really suck in dungeons with narrow hallways, though. You're pretty much guaranteed to get in a battle with almost every single thing you see.
Ni no Kuni does all these things, but where they drop the ball is that really tough 'Named' monsters will never chase you -- They just wander around peacefully, waiting for YOU to initialize a battle with them.
Final Fantasy XII (12) does a good job with having Big Scary Monsters way above your level that will chase you in some zones (like the giant T-Rex early on). You can see them, you know you should avoid them, and it makes crossing a zone more risky and adventurous. The Xenoblade Chronicles series is another great example that does this right.
Anyway, every jRPG and its brother has visible encounters these days. And when it doesn't, usually there's a feature to turn random encounters On/Off.
Overall I do prefer visible enemies these days, makes the atmosphere you're exploring feel more 'lived in'. I wish other games would steal Earthbound's insta-win mechanic, though.
Aidyn Chronicles also has separate battle areas/screens but no overworld map per say.
Originally posted by: OpticalAmbush
Tales of Symphonia is like that. I actually like it better then random encounters. It lets you grind at your own pace instead of being forced to grind just to advance a few screen. Only downfall is if you ignore too many battles you'll be under-powered to fight bosses.
I will have to check that out.
Mostly looking for 2D examples (OP updated) since it is a feature that is slightly less common with them than with games set in 3D worlds.
Lunar is another one that comes to mind, but I was thinking that not all of the Lunar releases allowed you to see monsters. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest also used the "visible but not moving" style
Thanks for the examples Ozzy, do you know which Lunar games? I have been meaning to check them out, and could use a good excuse to begin the journey.
Pokemon is another example where a lot of the fight are "visible," but they are positioned a lot like Chrono Trigger. Moving examples are mostly what I am after, whether or not they move with the player (Lufia II) or autonomously (Exodus, etc.).
Tales of Symphonia is like that. I actually like it better then random encounters. It lets you grind at your own pace instead of being forced to grind just to advance a few screen. Only downfall is if you ignore too many battles you'll be under-powered to fight bosses.
Was coming in here to mention this one. It was an interesting aspect, but the game didn't hold my interest for too long (RPGs rarely do for me though).
Good call on Ultima III as well. I always liked that way of doing things.
Originally posted by: bronzeshield
Is Zelda II relevant here? The system it uses was the first thing that sprang to my mind. (The next was Guardian's Crusade for PSX, which is pretty similar and works well.)
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Yeah, now that I think about it, those would work too.
Originally posted by: OpticalAmbush
Were missing a big one here guys! SUPER MARIO RPG!!! It also added the ability to get a first strike to give you the upper hand. Or a surprise attack to give the enemy the upper hand.
Super Mario RPG was released in 1996, EarthBound predates it by one year and introduced the advantage/disadvantage thing based on actions done outside of battle (facing the enemy's back or facing away from them).
Tales of Symphonia is like that. I actually like it better then random encounters. It lets you grind at your own pace instead of being forced to grind just to advance a few screen. Only downfall is if you ignore too many battles you'll be under-powered to fight bosses.
That's why this style drives me crazy. When playing an RPG I tend to want to avoid all of the fodder encounters, and then I end up having to grind for all the bosses. At least random encounters force me to grind as I play. The fixed encounters of something like Chrono Trigger or Septerra Core are by far my favorite way to play RPGs.
Originally posted by: DefaultGen
That's why this style drives me crazy. When playing an RPG I tend to want to avoid all of the fodder encounters, and then I end up having to grind for all the bosses. At least random encounters force me to grind as I play. The fixed encounters of something like Chrono Trigger or Septerra Core are by far my favorite way to play RPGs.
Thank you for that . Played it back in 2003/2004, but encountered that game breaking bug and never did finish it. Forgot that it even existed until now.
It is interesting to see an argument almost in favor of grinding, I like it.
However, if instead it fits the category:
- enemies are visible and they move,
- you face them when in need of rupees (or arrows, or bombs),
- you avoid them when heading to a dungeon at max. health.
It works pretty well.
Also, inside dungeons: sometimes you face them (e.g. to get a key), some other times you skip them.
Were missing a big one here guys! SUPER MARIO RPG!!! It also added the ability to get a first strike to give you the upper hand. Or a surprise attack to give the enemy the upper hand.
I've wondered whether Super Mario RPG began life as an isometric Mario platformer along the same lines as Sonic 3D Blast, but then the developers realized that the platforming does not work because of the isometric perspective, so they turned it into an RPG.
Maybe not, but whatever platforming there is in Super Mario RPG is very awkward, and the RPG aspect is amazing.
Originally posted by: user
OP says JRPG. So The Legend of Zelda I guess it doesn't fit (it is considered an adventure game by most gamers).
However, if instead it fits the category:
- enemies are visible and they move,
- you face them when in need of rupees (or arrows, or bombs),
- you avoid them when heading to a dungeon at max. health.
It works pretty well.
Also, inside dungeons: sometimes you face them (e.g. to get a key), some other times you skip them.
Not really thinking of action adventures or action RPGs, just the types of games that would normally have random battles but instead make the enemies visible on the screen.
Originally posted by: stinkoman
Dragon quest IX count?
Maybe . Describe it some. It can't hurt, but I don't play newer stuff much. Oh wait, I do have that one, but haven't played it beyond the first few minutes. It didn't have an option for my hairline, and I'm not ready to go full Avatar just yet.
Were missing a big one here guys! SUPER MARIO RPG!!! It also added the ability to get a first strike to give you the upper hand. Or a surprise attack to give the enemy the upper hand.
THANK YOU. Also Paper Mario 1 and 2, do they count as 3D though? Haven't played much Mario and Luigi but I'm pretty sure they're all like that too
I've wondered whether Super Mario RPG began life as an isometric Mario platformer along the same lines as Sonic 3D Blast, but then the developers realized that the platforming does not work because of the isometric perspective, so they turned it into an RPG.
Maybe not, but whatever platforming there is in Super Mario RPG is very awkward, and the RPG aspect is amazing.
I don't think so, since square developed it.
Edit: btw op if this is research for that homebrew RPG game that appears randomly at my doorstep, I'd like to mention that I do enjoy games that do this
The game's an action adventure/RPG but there's an overworld with enemy "clouds". Run into an enemy "cloud" and a seperate battle appears. with a random mob appropriate to the area.
Faria does this also - although there's a few different overworld enemy sprites that correspond to a particular mob type. Like Dragon View dungeon enemies don't spawn a seperate battle screen.
I personally hate random battles - games like Lunar that show me the mobs on screen is my prefered style of battling. In fact a million years ago when I was working on my pet RPG Maker project that was the style I was going to use.
First person view, you could see yourself approaching the enemies, could even fire arrows and such and hurt them before the encounter.
Originally posted by: BertBerryCrunch
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Edit: btw op if this is research for that homebrew RPG game that appears randomly at my doorstep, I'd like to mention that I do enjoy games that do this
I rarely ask idle questions. I learn by studying what others have done, but I can't play and/or remember everything . Or a given feature didn't stand out for me in the way that it did for someone else, and a comment sheds light on the novelty of it. Plus, people usually have some extra thoughts about things, like yeah, this game had this feature, but wow, was it terrible.
You just never know where a question might lead...
Thanks for the examples Ozzy, do you know which Lunar games? I have been meaning to check them out, and could use a good excuse to begin the journey.
Both PSX versions have them. Sega CD didn't as far as I remember.
Originally posted by: Ozzy_98
Originally posted by: SoleGooseProductions
Thanks for the examples Ozzy, do you know which Lunar games? I have been meaning to check them out, and could use a good excuse to begin the journey.
Both PSX versions have them. Sega CD didn't as far as I remember.
Ah, thanks. That answers the means that I have to go to obtain them. Anyone have the PSX versions for sale? Preferably the first one (Silver Star?).
Thanks for the examples Ozzy, do you know which Lunar games? I have been meaning to check them out, and could use a good excuse to begin the journey.
Both PSX versions have them. Sega CD didn't as far as I remember.
Ah, thanks. That answers the means that I have to go to obtain them. Anyone have the PSX versions for sale? Preferably the first one (Silver Star?).
I have a copy, it's not for sale but if you wanted to borrow it for an extended period of research time, I believe I could accomodate this.